Using BoA to tell a story
| Author | Topic: Using BoA to tell a story |
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Warrior
Member # 488
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written Sunday, August 27 2006 19:07
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Has BoA (or BoE for that matter) been used to create a character-driven story, such as providing the player with a prefabricated party and giving the PCs actual dialogue in the story? It runs somewhat contrary to the concept of BoA, but could provide a new element to the story to make things feel new or different. (Less: you are a band of mercenaries/adventurers/flunkies with no backstory or personality sent to complete mission X) While scenarios with plot decisions and alternate endings provide some extra flavor, a scenario like this could conceivably accomplish a similar brand of character involvement with a lower degree of design/execution difficulty. Thoughts? Posts: 137 | Registered: Saturday, January 5 2002 08:00 |
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The Establishment
Member # 6
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written Sunday, August 27 2006 19:12
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BoA, Mad Ambition is one. BoE has a few such as Roots by Thuryl, Emulations by myself, and I'm sure a few others. There is no reason more could not be done. [ Sunday, August 27, 2006 19:16: Message edited by: *i ] -------------------- Your flower power is no match for my glower power! Posts: 3726 | Registered: Tuesday, September 18 2001 07:00 |
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Master
Member # 5977
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written Sunday, August 27 2006 22:00
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To be honest, I don't like to play such scenarios, for I like to create the personalities myself. When I make a new party, I always think of them coming from there and there, with a certain mentality (which is obviously most of the time just my own mentality) and a specific background. If that image I created for them is suddenly torn apart by the designer, I'm usually not very pleased with that. It gives me the feeling that a huge gap has appeared between me, the party's creator, and the party itself. In short: what happens for me in such scenarios, is that I feel helpless. I have lost the controls over my own party. So in general, I just don't like them, but more could be made, of course. [ Sunday, August 27, 2006 22:02: Message edited by: Thralni ] -------------------- Play and rate my scenarios: Where the rivers meet View my upcoming scenario: The Nephil Search: Escape. Give us your drek! Posts: 3029 | Registered: Saturday, June 18 2005 07:00 |
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Loyal Underling
Member # 13
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written Monday, August 28 2006 03:54
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I like them a lot. Roots and Quintessence (both for BoE) are my favorites. There are plenty for BoE - check out the top-rated scenarios on CSR and most will be this story-driven type of scenario. -------------------- [i]Great Potato[/i] "Unless by the force of eloquence they mean the force of truth; for if such is their meaning, I admit that I am eloquent." -- Socrates Posts: 126 | Registered: Thursday, September 27 2001 07:00 |
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E Equals MC What!!!!
Member # 5491
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written Monday, August 28 2006 15:10
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The scenario I'm working on right now takes this concept to pretty extreme lengths. -------------------- SupaNik: Aran, you're not big enough to threaten Ash. Dammit, even JV had to think twice. Posts: 1861 | Registered: Friday, February 11 2005 08:00 |
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Triad Mage
Member # 7
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written Monday, August 28 2006 18:39
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Are you going BoE or BoA? -------------------- "At times discretion should be thrown aside, and with the foolish we should play the fool." - Menander ==== Drakefyre's Demesne - Happy Happy Joy Joy Encyclopedia Ermariana - Trapped in the Closet ==== You can take my Mac when you pry my cold, dead fingers off the mouse! Posts: 9436 | Registered: Wednesday, September 19 2001 07:00 |
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E Equals MC What!!!!
Member # 5491
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written Monday, August 28 2006 19:04
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BoE all the way, baby. -------------------- SupaNik: Aran, you're not big enough to threaten Ash. Dammit, even JV had to think twice. Posts: 1861 | Registered: Friday, February 11 2005 08:00 |
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Lifecrafter
Member # 6193
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written Monday, August 28 2006 19:55
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Well Bain is involved, that pretty much rules out BOA. Yet another reason why I should get around to ordering BOE. For now I'll curse you good naturedly. (Damn BOE designers, don't have to worry about heights or terrains. Think their sooooo cool because of all those talkport graphics. Makes me sick.) -------------------- Guaranteed to blow your mind. Frostbite: Get It While It's...... Hot? Posts: 900 | Registered: Monday, August 8 2005 07:00 |
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Shock Trooper
Member # 5459
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written Tuesday, August 29 2006 01:42
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I have nothing against prefab parties. In fact, I would like to see more scenarios with them. But then again it's easier to dislike a scenario if your pc is an unbearable idiot. -------------------- These are my scenarios. I may have too much free time but I really don't care. Backwater Calls, Magus of Cattalon, Rats Aplenty Get them here Visit The Lyceum for all your rating needs. Posts: 211 | Registered: Sunday, January 30 2005 08:00 |
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Shaper
Member # 73
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written Tuesday, August 29 2006 07:29
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Well, in my opinion, if the prefab character is an unbearable idiot due to deliberate story considerations rather than just the designer's inability to create logical situations, it can be a bit more forgivable. -------------------- My Myspace, with some of my audial and visual art The Lyceum - The Headquarters of the Blades designing community The Louvre - The Blades of Avernum graphics database Alexandria - The Blades of Exile Scenario database BoE Webring - Self explanatory Polaris - Free porn here Odd Todd - Fun for the unemployed (and everyone else too) They Might Be Giants - Four websites for one of the greatest bands in existance -------------------- 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 Posts: 2957 | Registered: Thursday, October 4 2001 07:00 |
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Shaper
Member # 3442
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written Tuesday, August 29 2006 07:58
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The thing with pre-fab parties are that the player doesn't have to use them. I, for instance, only used the pre-fab party in Emulations the first play through. The second time through I used a regular party. Unless you run a load of checks at the beginning of the scenario, and chuck the party out if they aren't using the pre-fab party, there is no guarantee that they will. Of course, even then the player might be able to get around it... -------------------- And when you want to Live How do you start? Where do you go? Who do you need to know? Posts: 2864 | Registered: Monday, September 8 2003 07:00 |
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Loyal Underling
Member # 13
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written Tuesday, August 29 2006 08:16
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Well, it's the player's fault if they don't use the default party. And a way around it is to include the saved game, but have the scenario already started and the PC inside the scenario. Then run the intro dialogue through some dialog boxes, and presto! That way you can give the player special abilities, special items, items with scripts, etc. from the get go. -------------------- [i]Great Potato[/i] "Unless by the force of eloquence they mean the force of truth; for if such is their meaning, I admit that I am eloquent." -- Socrates Posts: 126 | Registered: Thursday, September 27 2001 07:00 |
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Agent
Member # 2820
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written Tuesday, August 29 2006 12:14
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The intro screens are a nice effect to keep and I believe the "standard" way to do this is to provide a prefabricated party in a save file where they are not in any scenario. With a little of scripting at the very start of the scenario, the party will be everything the designer expects. -------------------- Thuryl: I mean, most of us don't go around consuming our own bodily fluids, no matter how delicious they are. ==== Alorael: War and violence would end if we all had each other's babies! ==== Drakefyre: Those are hideous mangos. Posts: 1415 | Registered: Thursday, March 27 2003 08:00 |
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Triad Mage
Member # 7
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written Tuesday, August 29 2006 12:16
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Standard is not always best. And this idea works better with BoE but is fine for BoA too. -------------------- "At times discretion should be thrown aside, and with the foolish we should play the fool." - Menander ==== Drakefyre's Demesne - Happy Happy Joy Joy Encyclopedia Ermariana - Trapped in the Closet ==== You can take my Mac when you pry my cold, dead fingers off the mouse! Posts: 9436 | Registered: Wednesday, September 19 2001 07:00 |
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E Equals MC What!!!!
Member # 5491
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written Tuesday, August 29 2006 12:17
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quote:This is actually a really cool idea. And if they start it with any other party, they arrive in a walled room with nothing but an exit from the scenario. :-) -------------------- SupaNik: Aran, you're not big enough to threaten Ash. Dammit, even JV had to think twice. Posts: 1861 | Registered: Friday, February 11 2005 08:00 |
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Guardian
Member # 6670
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written Tuesday, August 29 2006 17:31
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By Ash: quote:Ooh. That's evil. Actually, a few weeks ago I came up with an idea for a series of this type (read: I'm getting sick and tired of the scenario I'm working on). Have four small scenarios, each with a pre-fab singleton. Each singleton's personality is developed in their scenario. Then have a fifth scenario that comes with a utility that extracts all the character info from each save. Bingo! A four PC scenario, in which each PC has an individual history. The problem is that for me to be able to write such an utility, JV would have to release the format for the .SAV file. EDIT: Such an utility could probably extract SDF values as well. That way, in the fifth scenario, the pre-created dialog could reflect choices made in the earlier four. -------------------- I think that all right thinking people in this country are sick and tired of being told that ordinary decent people in this country are fed up with being sick and tired. I am most certainly not. And I'm sick and tired of being told that I am. - John Cleese (Monty Python) [ Tuesday, August 29, 2006 17:33: Message edited by: Dintiradan ] Posts: 1509 | Registered: Tuesday, January 10 2006 08:00 |
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...b10010b...
Member # 869
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written Wednesday, August 30 2006 00:00
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quote:I considered doing exactly this for Roots, but eventually decided it was more trouble than it was worth. After all, it's a hard scenario, and if somebody needs to use a god party to finish it, I'd rather they did that rather than gave up on it completely. I will be using extreme measures to enforce premade party use in Idols, though. I pretty much have to, since the scenario detects which one of two premade parties you're using and changes the plot accordingly. (That's right, it's a two-scenarios-in-one value deal. Limited time only, while stocks last.) [ Wednesday, August 30, 2006 00:08: Message edited by: Thuryl ] -------------------- The Empire Always Loses: This Time For Sure! Posts: 9973 | Registered: Saturday, March 30 2002 08:00 |
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Lifecrafter
Member # 6193
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written Thursday, August 31 2006 16:55
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Dintiradan's idea reminds me of a vague idea I had/have for a scenario. Basically it'd have have 4-8 stories, all of which touch upon each other a bit. Choices in one story would effect others etc. I've seen this done in movies / TV shows, but to my knowledge (which is limited to BOA) not in a scenario. The concept kind of reminds me of how Pulp Fiction's plot is presented, but with more storylines. I put this idea aside because I couldn't come up with a good, detailed plot that tied all the stories together. Maybe sometime in the future. -------------------- Guaranteed to blow your mind. Frostbite: Get It While It's...... Hot? Posts: 900 | Registered: Monday, August 8 2005 07:00 |
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Lifecrafter
Member # 6700
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written Thursday, August 31 2006 18:19
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I'd had an idea very similar to Dintiridan's, myself. However, instead of extracting singletons, i figured the player would just select the character to be affected by each story at the start of the scenario. Do it with a "choose a character" or "separate active character" type thing (I'm not in the mood to look up actual calls). I mean, TM kept the first character separate in Mad Ambition. Each scenario trains a different class of PC, so there would have to be quite a few sub-stories. Then the party is "united" in a larger scenario, where the player doesn't have to chose; it just starts automatically. In order to keep the characters in separate scenarios, one might be able to use items (gifts or rewards, perhaps?) from the other scenarios as markers. One could then potentially use the same items to create a story recap in the big scenario. To be honest, this is merely speculation. But it does sound cool. EDIT: Post 250! -------------------- The Silent Assassin made a point of making known that his new crossbow invention is a brilliant success. Of course, this was after he had managed to destroy every piece of furniture in the Living Room. [ Thursday, August 31, 2006 18:20: Message edited by: Lenar Research Facilites ] -------------------- -Lenar Labs What's Your Destiny? Ushmushmeifa: Lenar's power is almighty and ineffable. All hail lord Noric, god of... well, something important, I'm sure. Posts: 735 | Registered: Monday, January 16 2006 08:00 |
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Triad Mage
Member # 7
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written Thursday, August 31 2006 18:30
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You can't use items as markers to track things between scenarios. You can't do anything to check about what a party did in the previous scenario. -------------------- "At times discretion should be thrown aside, and with the foolish we should play the fool." - Menander ==== Drakefyre's Demesne - Happy Happy Joy Joy Encyclopedia Ermariana - Trapped in the Closet ==== You can take my Mac when you pry my cold, dead fingers off the mouse! Posts: 9436 | Registered: Wednesday, September 19 2001 07:00 |
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Law Bringer
Member # 4153
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written Friday, September 1 2006 07:57
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quote:Well... except asking the player, but that breaks the atmosphere up a bit. I thought about doing that for DoK2... but to no avail. 'Twas a stupid idea. I bet if Jeff let us do something with the save format via calls, it would be possible... nay, easy. -------------------- Gamble with Gaea, and she eats your dice. I hate undead. I really, really, really, really hate undead. With a passion. Posts: 4130 | Registered: Friday, March 26 2004 08:00 |
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Lifecrafter
Member # 6700
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written Friday, September 1 2006 09:55
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Okay, let's talk practicality. I do know that we can utilize calls to check PC stats. What if one created a tag or several tags using skills that can't be trained in, or the skills that require base skills to train in? In essence, a combination key of skills, with a different key generated from the different sub-scenarios? One could potentially manipulate the key, of course, but why would one want to, if they wanted to play corectly? -------------------- The Silent Assassin knows more than the Shadow. -------------------- -Lenar Labs What's Your Destiny? Ushmushmeifa: Lenar's power is almighty and ineffable. All hail lord Noric, god of... well, something important, I'm sure. Posts: 735 | Registered: Monday, January 16 2006 08:00 |
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...b10010b...
Member # 869
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written Friday, September 1 2006 16:31
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quote:Well, because the only skill that can't ever be trained in is Dread Curse, which doesn't carry over between scenarios, and any party above level 20 or so is likely to have access to multiple special skills already. What you *could* do, I suppose, is give the party, say, a necklace, and tell them to put it on their lead PC at the start of the next scenario. (Call it a ceremonial necklace or something, given to commemorate the party's achievements in the first scenario, and start the next scenario with a ceremony in which the PC is expected to wear it.) Have the item give an unusual combination of stat bonuses that another scenario designer would be unlikely to give to an item by chance -- say, +1 Strength, +1 Quick Strike, +1 First Aid and +1 Luck. Check the lead PC's stats at the start of the next scenario, then destroy the item in the necklace slot and check his stats again -- if the changes in stats match up with the loss of the stat bonuses given by your tag item, he was wearing your tag. Creating multiple tags (to check on multiple things that may or may not have been done in the first scenario) is just a matter of adding more items in different slots. Of course, you can always give back the items you destroy if you want the party to be able to keep them for the next scenario. With this method, a player with a basic knowledge of scenario design could still create a fake tag, but it's unlikely that anyone would stumble across one by accident. A word of warning: it's a good idea to only give the party tags for doing good things, or for avoiding doing bad things. If you give the party tags for screwing up, they can easily trick the next scenario into thinking they haven't done them by throwing away the tag items. [ Friday, September 01, 2006 16:47: Message edited by: Thuryl ] -------------------- The Empire Always Loses: This Time For Sure! Posts: 9973 | Registered: Saturday, March 30 2002 08:00 |