improvements for geneforge 3.... your thoughts

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AuthorTopic: improvements for geneforge 3.... your thoughts
Warrior
Member # 3987
Profile #150
too hard. :eek: im playing on torment (but im not far) and isnt very hard(for me) :D

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Shaper laws:
1. Kill everyone who hates you
2. Keep everyone who likes you
Posts: 146 | Registered: Saturday, February 14 2004 08:00
Shock Trooper
Member # 3683
Profile #151
maybe I am just a lousy game player then. But wait till you reach Barzite and Taker regions....

anyway, I just want to point out for the last time that I have nothing against a game being hard at torment level, but I feel it is rather too difficult for easy or normal level, comparing to the previous GF. To me, it seems ridiculous to gain level so quickly in the beginning just to go and do valley quests and get killed for measely 1 xp/monster (such as at the spawner place). (not that I don't like skill points to spend)

With experience and patience, out of demo areas, it is doable for me but I would end up washed out - dreading to go on and getting beat up so often - just personal issue on self fulfillment, maybe....
Posts: 266 | Registered: Wednesday, November 12 2003 08:00
Warrior
Member # 3117
Profile #152
Food should have a greater effect on your health.

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Posts: 114 | Registered: Wednesday, June 18 2003 07:00
Warrior
Member # 3987
Profile #153
dragongirl i am in their lands. its kinda tuffer there. but not like i cant kill anyone :D i dont think that your a lousy player, you just need some practise time :cool:

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Shaper laws:
1. Kill everyone who hates you
2. Keep everyone who likes you
Posts: 146 | Registered: Saturday, February 14 2004 08:00
Warrior
Member # 4081
Profile #154
Here's my thoughts. Being able to have a melee and ranged weapon equiped would be great. Also for the end game, it would be neat to be able to actually participate in the battle instead of being told what happened. If u helped ur allies they would be more powerful etc. (Although at that point u could probably destroy everything yourself)
Something else I think would be kind of neat. U would be invading the shaper council territory.

When u create your character u have to pick which sect u want to play as. Then u would follow their quests throughout the game. In the end though u could still betray them and align with the council or whatever. (just a thought)

I also agree with no training cap, but it costs more every time u train. This way u can always spend ur money instead of making it useless. And possibly a trading post that will buy things no matter who u are aligned with. (like Darian but more of them)

Also change the appearance on magical items (even if it's just the color)
Posts: 82 | Registered: Tuesday, March 9 2004 08:00
Apprentice
Member # 4115
Profile #155
Been lurking here for a while but I wanted to post my thoughts on this having (properly) completed GF1&2 recently.

I think from the "door" ending of GF2 it's clear that the story line of GF3 is probably settled and I hope the game has lots of mythology and history of the Shapers (because, call me sad, discovering what's happening in both the games has been the main staying power for me).

1- Optional beginning
The first couple of zones in GF2 are probably a good introduction to the series but for those who have played GF1 or are replaying they are superfluous. If there was some way of optionally skipping them then it would save the first 15mins of the game having little interest for the player.

2- Unlocking
I agree with the posters near the start of the thread who said unlocking should go back to as it was in GF1 where living tools could be used in combination with the unlock spell.

3- More quests
GF2 seemed to have substatially more quests (big and small) than GF1. During the older game my interest waned a bit from half way as there was no quests I could directly complete (expect for getting eqipment which by that time had no exp reward). It makes the game run far more smoothly to complete a quest then look at the journal to see what to attempt next.

4- Special weapon quests
The special weapons made by various people in GF2 that needed rare componants (like the emrald chest guard) were complicated to get. By the time I had got lots of the componants for them I had forgotton who was where. Making these tasks part of the official quest list would make it far easier to remember where to go with what.

5- Special weapon power
It would also be far more rewarding if the special weapons people make for you out of componants were obviously better than some of the stuff picked up around the game.

6- Appearance of serviles
A few people have mentioned having different colours for the main character but I find the fact that all the serviles look exactly the same (except for the odd purple cloak) to be very confusing (espeically when trying to search for a particular person).

7- Economy and trainers
I think there should be enough cash in the game to pay for all the items possible to pick up (half way into the games I was just leaving items that I didn't want to equip). The cash should be used on other items or training (with no cap- finding Learned Guauss on one of the hardest levels of GF2 when he had no skills to offer me was very annoying). This will espcially be important if there are ethicl reasons not to use the canisters or alterations in GF3.
Posts: 8 | Registered: Thursday, March 18 2004 08:00
Warrior
Member # 3698
Profile Homepage #156
First, Jeff hasn't even thought about a Geneforge 3 yet. He even told me so in an e-mail.

Also See "The future of Geneforge" "Techgforge" for more about a possible sequel to GF2. :)

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Posts: 179 | Registered: Tuesday, November 18 2003 08:00
Agent
Member # 1104
Profile Homepage #157
GF3 will be out. He might not have thought about it much, but he will make it for the following reasons:

1. $
2. The ending of GF2

Techforge will never work. In fact, I highly doubt it will work...

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Austrian Alex - Reality Corp.
Posts: 1307 | Registered: Tuesday, May 7 2002 07:00
Warrior
Member # 3698
Profile Homepage #158
yes there will be a geneforge 3! here is the e-mail:

What is the door for in GF2 that you can't open for if you weren't
thinking of a Geneforge 3? (you told me that you hadn't thought of a
GF3, but that was last year. Has that changed?)

We will write Geneforge 3.

- Jeff Vogel
Spiderweb Software, Inc.
http://www.spiderwebsoftware.com

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Hi. Why is the universe so BIG? Why am I human? How come hot dogs come in packages of 10 and buns 8? This will all be solved in time young padawan. Your quest for the ultimate Aztec manuer is coming to a climax. May the force be with you!!!
······························································
This is where I want you to click! Rate me! Ha Ha
Check out my GF 1, 2 and 3 Helper!
Ceck out some cool Mac OS X Apps that were made by me here!
10101 Software - You can take my iMac when you pry my cold, dead fingers off the wireless mouse!
Posts: 179 | Registered: Tuesday, November 18 2003 08:00
Infiltrator
Member # 2628
Profile Homepage #159
Technically this was not news. See this post by Drakefyre, written last June (before GF2 was released).

I can understand your excitement, but there really was no need to put this post in 4 separate threads.

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We meet and part now over all the world;
we, the lost company,
take hands together in the night, forget
the night in our brief happiness, silently.
-- Judith Wright

My website
Posts: 512 | Registered: Wednesday, February 12 2003 08:00
Apprentice
Member # 4124
Profile Homepage #160
Whats with those healing/essence pods? I ran out of them, RAN OUT! i have no essence and no life, its just like real life dear god my character is ruined! One would think they would replenish their supply of potions on their spare time being the "potion makers" that they are.

And one thing i would like to see is MORE, thats right, just more in general, more always helps after all. 80 zones? pfft nothing, make that 160 zones. More weapons! More Spells! More Character designs! More chat options! More shaped creations!
It would be cool to be able to mix and match and create hybrid creations with sufficient skill in 2 or 3 catergories of shaping skills or further develop existing ones. After all, research is a big part of a shaper's life and are always looking to create the bigger, badder, and smarter. (All the NPC shapers are doing it, how come i cant charge or energize or make a battle gamma :( )

On a side note:
As an old school game developer, i shrug at many of the games that have been produced as of late. The developers who make these games are insensitive to the desires of his/her community, advertising pretty graphics whilst delivering no gameplay and hiding behind big name producers and coporations to churn out high sales volumes. My faith in the so called game-makers of todays society had nearly been lost had i not stumbled upon Geneforge 2 in my latest subscription of PC Gamer magazine. I salute you Mr. Jeff, and despite the fact that this 7 page long thread of suggestions may sound like your doing any less than a superb job, well, you are doing a superb job and its the reason why there are 7 pages worth of game suggestions in the first place. As a dissapointed and demoralized game developer working for a big company, i hope that my attempts to vicariously program/develop through you has made at least the slightest dint of difference, thank you :)
Posts: 1 | Registered: Saturday, March 20 2004 08:00
Shock Trooper
Member # 3862
Profile #161
Hmm well I got another idea for Geneforge 3. Here is another way to make a new line of creations. Have the ability to meld 2 or 3 monsters of different types together to make a new one. Of course this could result in a large amount of combinations but try to make them so that if the creations were combined it would make sense. The only Shapers that can do this are the ones that have used the new Geneforge(for more complicated monsters) or used a multitude of canisters that give the ability. This would mean the Geneforge would need to be used by you and not just Drakons.

Note: If it is a completely retarded and stupid, useless idea then ignore it. But if you think it could work build upon it and add things that could make it better.

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Legends tell that Avernum,
Is a gateway to the underworld,
from which the dead never return,
Well thats a lie because im here now aren't I.
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"Never get into a fight with an idiot. They drag you down to their level and beat you with experience."
Posts: 312 | Registered: Tuesday, January 6 2004 08:00
Apprentice
Member # 4094
Profile #162
Okay, I'm sure lots of this stuff has probably been said before but here's my ideas for Geneforge 3.

1. Merchants should not run out of supplies. I have nobody left to buy potions from!

2. If a person has, say, 10 pieces of food, they should be able to give it to their creations more than one piece at a time.

more later....

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Beware the canisters!!!
Posts: 11 | Registered: Sunday, March 14 2004 08:00
Apprentice
Member # 4147
Profile #163
Some ideas for GF3, I sure hope there will be one it would be a crime to end it like that. :)Canisters should impact your character's dialogue responses as well as how characters react to you. It should be more of a sacrifice and tradeoff to choose to use them within the game, sanity for skills. Holding off on using them should have rewards, using them should give you less control on what you say, but both paths should be interesting. Fundamentally there's no difference between your character's interactions from a disciplined loyalist to a canister-mad barzite, except for the one time at the mountain pass. Truly if you use tons of canisters, your character should become a totally arrogant hothead just like Phariton, Tuldaric and them. At least in regards to conversation with powerful/key characters, some extra dialogue options for heavy canister usage would be cool. While roleplaying a canister free loyalist, I sort of felt like I was wasting my time, besides a slight change at the ending.

Create serviles, these little guys are creations who built not only the towns but the plot itself in both games, they should definately be a must for shaping in Geneforge 3. There could be different types, like technical servile (add to mechanics), alchemy servile (potions).

Definately a longer main plot for each faction. For the Loyalists for example, it was basically just sabotage the awakened, sabotage the barzites, kill the 3 drakons and it's over. I know there are tons of locations and scads of sidequests, but I really enjoyed the main factions and wished they had longer stories.

I think Geneforge 3 should be different in some way from the first 2. They were both fantastic games, but they've exhausted the plot line of being thrown into an area stranded with the same factions to choose from. Starting in a more central shaper area would be interesting, seeing the main cities of shaper civilization. It would be an interesting twist to actually start as and play as a servile, being spoken down to and spit upon by shapers instead of constantly having the choice of taking the shaper low road or high road. Choosing between the factions as a servile, would definately add new perspective. It wouldn't be as good as a whole new plot, but much better than the same factions as a shaper again. Being reshaped as a servile, by the awakened or others would allow you the same potential and abilities as a shaper. Assuming you're a young servile revolutionary fighting for the Awakened, heck the current leader of the Awakened could be your former character from Geneforge 2, who tells the tale which you played out. An interesting twist maybe? Dunno which ending it will assume, but unless it's the loyalist one there will probably be an ongoing war. The shaper council fighting either the Awakened, Takers, or Barzites, and that's good. Plus there's that beasty in Easss (sp?) dungeon, his final ultimate creation in the chain of Drakons it will probably turn out to be.

This next part's really getting kind of out there from the realm of possibility, but humor me just for fun. Having your own serviles build you a structure would be really awesome, a fortress or home custom designed. It could have the typical areas seen in shaper halls, blacksmith for customizing weapons and armor, creating puresteel, an essence pool for creating and charging magical items. Then making creations like Battle Alphas and setting them to guard and patrol your fortress, against what enemy I don't know but something could be improvised.
Posts: 1 | Registered: Wednesday, March 24 2004 08:00
Warrior
Member # 3987
Profile #164
1. it isnt nesserly. if you want get much power but you would turn mad, it takes the joy out of the game.
2. a very good idea.
3. even better. the old plots are so boring.
4.it could be different but not totally.
4.1. the shaper towns idea has alredy brought out and i agree. it is a thought that deserves to be respected.
4.2. i wouldnt want to start as a servile. it could be a choice. you could choose like this: guardian, shaper, agent, servile, drakon, gazer, etc.
5. it is bossible, but it would ruine the point of the game.

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Shaper laws:
1. Kill everyone who hates you
2. Keep everyone who likes you
Posts: 146 | Registered: Saturday, February 14 2004 08:00
Apprentice
Member # 3911
Profile Homepage #165
Rethink the level system. One of the annoying features of Gemforge 2 is deciding when to complete a quest, so the experience gained has the most desirable effect.

I would suggest:

a) Use the common system that requires more "experience points" for each successive level gain, but the experience points for doing something are not dependent on your current level.

b) Make level increases more common, so that adanced characters reach 3 or more digits, but each increment does less.

c) Put "skill points" into areas 1 at a time, with each point doing just a little, and the effect diminishing when many points are put into a single attribute.

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The Klingons' favorite food was named ny the first Earthling to see it.
Posts: 1 | Registered: Wednesday, January 21 2004 08:00
Apprentice
Member # 4070
Profile #166
about the music... maybe it could be like a packet download. one for the game, one for music, one for internet play, etc, etc, etc
Posts: 2 | Registered: Friday, March 5 2004 08:00
Warrior
Member # 3987
Profile #167
there isnt a internet play yet. it will be out (maybe), but it is questionable. if there are to many packets to download, it gets annoying. afcourse the downloading file shouldnt be too big, youre right about that. i think that jeff will improve the music and it shouldnt be too much to download.

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Shaper laws:
1. Kill everyone who hates you
2. Keep everyone who likes you
Posts: 146 | Registered: Saturday, February 14 2004 08:00
Apprentice
Member # 4172
Profile #168
I think GF3 should definitely have a multiplayer option. Multiplayer allows for a much longer period of enjoyment. Maybe In multiplayer you could choose to play the actual storyline w/ your friends or you could just wander around fighting each other or something. I think it would be so cool if there could be player characters with each faction or something.
Posts: 1 | Registered: Monday, March 29 2004 08:00
Apprentice
Member # 4179
Profile #169
lol
all this stuff sounds so good. it makes me wish i could afford the game :P . if anyone wants to chat u can find me on AIM/AOL. My screename is NikDaFly. hope to chat about the game and other stuff!

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Stay by your servile, for he may be holding a very sharp knife with your name written in blood!
Posts: 4 | Registered: Wednesday, March 31 2004 08:00
Apprentice
Member # 4112
Profile #170
Preamble (written after post): this is a bit long. I really, *really* want 1,2,3. Rest is just highly desirable and suggestions.

What I would like to see next.
(note: I played on easy and normal, I skimmed through this thread and I get lost in my posts easily)
1) better interface - one-click-does-everything is baaad, I want to have absolute and easy control over
- what I select (numbers for party memebers, lowercase letters for friendlies, uppercase letters for foes?)
- where do I send it (I want grid displayed and move command so that I can move my creations behind other creations)
- seeing how much action points will remain and the path it will choose (sometimes creations choose really weird paths - too long, when there is an obvious shorter way)
- where when and how will the view center; OK, it would be sufficient if it did not usually do exactly the opposite of what I want, but a bonus would be if active creature was always kept in view (some minimal distance form the border) in such a way as to also keep most enemies in view
2) synchronicity
- now I can only activate commands like Load game or Quit if one of my party is active (and not frightened and not AI controlled ...), I want to be able to do these things all the time
- similarly, all game messages (like ... is hit for ..., ... gains level) should be displayed when they happen and not blocked until something happens (something usually=my turn)
3) Why is time taken for all those offscreen (not visible) creatures to move as if they were visible? If they are not animated on the screen, their movement should happen *much* faster.
4) Better creation control - let the button panel control creations when they are active - give them default attack mode (melee/missile), give higher creations more attack modes (less effective with lesser cost) and a choice between them, invent a 'move' command ...
5) Finally get rid of that fixed-number-of-items-in-inventory silliness, that was acceptable for games on 8-bit computers, not on computers with at least 1M available RAM ...
6) Make creations more different ... not more types of creations, but differentiate the current ones more ... like bonuses to attributes, armor, resistances, different(not just larger, but overlapping) sets of abilities(spells/attacks), different rates of HP/energy gains at levelups ...
7) I propose a different method of creation levelupping:
- don't base their experience gains on PC's level, but their own *experience* level
- start every creation at experience level 1 (or something based on their type)
- but give them level bonus so that they have equivalent effective starting level (for purposes of attribute determination, HP, energy, ...)
- give them some bonuses based on PC's shaping skill at point of their shaping at no additional essence cost (not start at higher experience level, but maybe higher bonus level; higher armor for high shaping; ...)
- another bonuses for experience level (on top of the effects of total effective level(HP, energy, attributes)) - possibly an action point or two, levels of parry/quick action, more armor, resistances

I was aiming here for a system in which PCs are not penalized (for high levels) with creations that level up slower ...
8) trainers that don't give less if you already know something ... eighter
- let all trainers teach a total of two levels for any skill,
- let any trainer teach one(two) levels for any skill
- let any teacher (and quest reward and special learnign encounter) disperse a fixed amount of skill points on a given skill (and have skills remember skill points invested instead of just level); I would prefer this alternative (with canisters giving bonus levels without increasing skill point cost for another level)
9) Anyway, if a 5 skill point increase can give me +5% at something, why can't I invest 1 skill point for +1%?
10) I am sure I forgot something
11) I hereby give (as much as I am allowed to) spiderweb software rights to use or refuse ideas in this post to its (their's?) liking.

Wov, that got long.

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AKA xKiv : I/O,I/O, it's off to disk I go ...
Posts: 42 | Registered: Thursday, March 18 2004 08:00
Shock Trooper
Member # 4180
Profile #171
I've only managed to skim the first seven(!) pages, so forgive me if this has been mentioned... but what I most want GF3 to be is "Blades of Geneforge". That is, give us an editor and let us write our own scenarios set in the GF mythos.

-spyderbytes

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-spyderbytes
Posts: 200 | Registered: Wednesday, March 31 2004 08:00
Apprentice
Member # 4106
Profile #172
I would like to have a good ending in GF3 where the world gets saved or ruled by me not eaten by drakons who make me just a researcher
Posts: 24 | Registered: Wednesday, March 17 2004 08:00
Apprentice
Member # 4195
Profile #173
3D
Posts: 15 | Registered: Saturday, April 3 2004 08:00
Warrior
Member # 3698
Profile Homepage #174
there needs to be a cheat for money

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Hi. Why is the universe so BIG? Why am I human? How come hot dogs come in packages of 10 and buns 8? This will all be solved in time young padawan. Your quest for the ultimate Aztec manuer is coming to a climax. May the force be with you!!!
······························································
This is where I want you to click! Rate me! Ha Ha
Check out my GF 1, 2 and 3 Helper!
Ceck out some cool Mac OS X Apps that were made by me here!
10101 Software - You can take my iMac when you pry my cold, dead fingers off the wireless mouse!
Posts: 179 | Registered: Tuesday, November 18 2003 08:00

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