improvements for geneforge 3.... your thoughts

Pages

AuthorTopic: improvements for geneforge 3.... your thoughts
Apprentice
Member # 3818
Profile #125
A few suggestions...

Have more distinctions among the three classes. Have each class learn a skill or gain an ability unique to that class. The Shaper, Guardian, and Agent all have the potential to shape, to use magic, or to physically pummel an opponent. There is not much distinction, in my opinion. An example would be a Shaper learning the ability to shape the most powerful creation, not an Agent or a Guardian.

One should be able to further evolve a creation. An example of this is the Battle Alpha. You can evolve the Alpha to a Beta, but not to a Gamma.

Not too keen on the idea of flying creations. There are potential flying creations in GF2: the drakons of the Barrier of the Winds. If flying creations are introduced in GF3, they should be a creation of the foe(s) you must defeat. One of the endings of GF2 eludes to "other bizarre creations" wrecking havok. It could be a flying creation.

If the option to hire mercenary is in GF3, there should be some consequences (along the lines one has when using the canisters). Think about the impression that would have on humans; the mighty Shaper can create anything but must call upon the "lowly" humans for help. What would this do to the reputation of Shapers?

This was mentioned, I am sure, but a faction that deals with summoning infernal creatures. We witnessed a sample of that (Barhzites, Takers, and Tuldaric). What would happen if a faction were successful in summoning and binding a demon?

Have areas where one can level up past level 30 easily. My Agent was level 45 when I completed the game, but I had to find enemies that were worthwhile to kill (i.e., experience).

Just a few of my suggestions...
Posts: 10 | Registered: Monday, December 22 2003 08:00
Infiltrator
Member # 3776
Profile Homepage #126
Well in GF 2 no sect was successful in capturing demons and i think demons like their infernal home thst stretches infinitely.

--------------------
Some stupid laws


If it is mine,it is mine.
If I had it a second ago,it is mine
If it looks like it is mine it is mine.
If it is your's and you keep it down,it becomes mine.
If I like something,it is mine
If I see something,then it is mine.

Please click here
Do not visit this Page

Want to visit the misc.boards-This is the only WAY

-Stinging Munster
Posts: 413 | Registered: Friday, December 12 2003 08:00
Shock Trooper
Member # 3862
Profile #127
I have another idea for what could be in GF3.

I would like it to have some sort of healing item that I could give to my creation instead of food which is worthless and using a pouch. Maybe letting you choose to use a pod on yourself or your creation.

--------------------
Legends tell that Avernum,
Is a gateway to the underworld,
from which the dead never return,
Well thats a lie because im here now aren't I.
--------------------------------
"Never get into a fight with an idiot. They drag you down to their level and beat you with experience."
Posts: 312 | Registered: Tuesday, January 6 2004 08:00
Shock Trooper
Member # 3513
Profile Homepage #128
I like the idea character specifc skills.

I think that there should be a character-specifc stat, like a stat for agents that gives your spells a chance of splitting to hit multiple enemies, or a stat for shapers that increases all you creation quality, etc.

Also, more stats. There are no new stats between GF and GF2 except Parry, which they swapped for Anatomy.

--------------------
Ignorwhat?
Posts: 301 | Registered: Thursday, October 2 2003 07:00
Apprentice
Member # 3851
Profile #129
I would like to see a bit more realistic strength of monsters versus your PC & creations and a fairer way of assigning experience to killing them. For the enemy to be able to get you (and/or your creations) in one or blows and there's NO WAY without cheating to get them?? I know I'm not the only one to have that experience. I read this list. Or, in the alternative, you kill a supposedly tough enemy in one or two hits and WOW, 50 experience!

You know those bushes that drop massive acid rain on PC and creations? They have killed my whole party in one or two drenches. I've backed off (cheated on "rechargeme" after giving all the essence shield and steelskin because there's not enough essence pods in the game) and tried again with the same result. I'm wearing every bit of acid and hostile resistance gear imaginable. And then when it's all over, 12 experience or some such amount. And people talk about "strategy" ... in this type situation, how can strategy prevent acid from wiping out the whole party (especially when playing as an agent with "adopted" characters as I'm doing right now)?

Not all of us are real experienced at this and I guess what I'm wondering is, should this game be marketed for experienced only? There are times when I don't think easy is easy enough. (I also liked Dragongirl's post about this.)

And I even wonder how experienced players can even face some of the enemies with the one-blow-and-you're-dead capability. Or how about the ones that you keep repeatedly hitting -- and I mean repeatedly! -- they take NO damage and damage you excessively every turn. Or when you're slowed and stay slowed for ten turns while they pummel you (you don't have enough AP to even use healing pods) and there's no way without "healmenow." The problem is you may need something in this particular level to be able to go further in the game successfully, like get to an exit to go to another region. Or they may be guarding some critical equipment that you need to make you stronger. But you're stuck because you can't get them.
Posts: 34 | Registered: Saturday, January 3 2004 08:00
Apprentice
Member # 3851
Profile #130
What about having a few regions with wholesale merchants with a lot of cash at hand? This way, if you decide to join a sect early and some merchants won't deal with you anymore, you at least can sell your items for something (even though it's less gold, it's still gold!) and then you'll be able to purchase training, supplies, etc.

The way the game is set up, it's not a good idea to join any sect at all until you're well into two-thirds of the regions. The problem with that is you don't get some of the good quests, like "kill so-and-so in the X-region." You've already been there, done that by the time you join them. (Do they pretend so-and-so is still alive, ask you to kill them and then you tell them you did and you STILL get experience? LOL I don't know. Didn't put it to the test.)
Posts: 34 | Registered: Saturday, January 3 2004 08:00
Apprentice
Member # 3940
Profile #131
I would like to make what the shapers make!! Like: Flowers, trees, HOUSES (most important), Shaping Hall, and such. And to make serviles that fight like the other creations AND carry stuff for you. I would like to be able to make tiny creations (Like the ending of Geneforge 2, that says "Your unique fun was making tiny creations and playing with them"). Of course, all i said would be impossible to be done by only 1 year (programming take a lot of effort if you dont know!!!). :D
Posts: 5 | Registered: Thursday, January 29 2004 08:00
Infiltrator
Member # 3776
Profile Homepage #132
Fire creations,Battle&magic creations.Why not creations on water.Like living craft in GeneForge 1.
It could help a shaper fight on water.

[ Saturday, January 31, 2004 19:23: Message edited by: The Stinging Munster ]

--------------------
Some stupid laws


If it is mine,it is mine.
If I had it a second ago,it is mine
If it looks like it is mine it is mine.
If it is your's and you keep it down,it becomes mine.
If I like something,it is mine
If I see something,then it is mine.

Please click here
Do not visit this Page

Want to visit the misc.boards-This is the only WAY

-Stinging Munster
Posts: 413 | Registered: Friday, December 12 2003 08:00
Apprentice
Member # 2634
Profile #133
quote:
Originally written by Holly:

I would like to see a bit more realistic strength of monsters versus your PC & creations and a fairer way of assigning experience to killing them. For the enemy to be able to get you (and/or your creations) in one or blows and there's NO WAY without cheating to get them?? I know I'm not the only one to have that experience. I read this list. Or, in the alternative, you kill a supposedly tough enemy in one or two hits and WOW, 50 experience!
I've been through the whole game and never found any creature that can't be killed. And I don't cheat either. Granted I play on normal (never had the urge to try harder difficulties).

I agree on killing tough enemies in a couple of hits being a let-down. The game is a bit offensively focused...in the late game, run around in combat mode and strike first = dead opponent.

quote:
You know those bushes that drop massive acid rain on PC and creations? They have killed my whole party in one or two drenches. I've backed off (cheated on "rechargeme" after giving all the essence shield and steelskin because there's not enough essence pods in the game) and tried again with the same result. I'm wearing every bit of acid and hostile resistance gear imaginable. And then when it's all over, 12 experience or some such amount. And people talk about "strategy" ... in this type situation, how can strategy prevent acid from wiping out the whole party (especially when playing as an agent with "adopted" characters as I'm doing right now)?
Well, granted I haven't played with a shaper, and my agent and guardian don't use creations. But as for acid bushes, just haste and hit and run them. Don't stand there and get hit. Activate haste, go into combat mode just outside their line of sight, step in, shoot, step out of range, repeat.

I've played with my agent and had little trouble. Always always buff (blessing, protection, essense armor, steel skin, haste) and run around in combat mode. That's the safest way.

Oh, and strong daze helps in a pinch.

But I do agree that resistances aren't always as effective as I think they should be.

quote:
Not all of us are real experienced at this and I guess what I'm wondering is, should this game be marketed for experienced only? There are times when I don't think easy is easy enough. (I also liked Dragongirl's post about this.)
Well, there is a bit of a learning curve. And a lot of make a mistake and you die (again, because the game is offensively focused). A good thing to do is invest in parry...a few points there can save you from the occasional attack. And make good use of the quicksave and quickload buttons. And, basically, learn from your mistakes and develop a strategy.

quote:
And I even wonder how experienced players can even face some of the enemies with the one-blow-and-you're-dead capability.
Lots of haste and hit-and-run. Or, for guardians, lots of parry and endurance. And buff, always buff. Or strong daze, heh.

quote:
Or how about the ones that you keep repeatedly hitting -- and I mean repeatedly! -- they take NO damage and damage you excessively every turn.
If they take no damage, there is a problem. It probably means your skill is too low, or you are too low level, or both. Thus, you miss often or don't do enough damage to really hurt them. As an example, my agent had a battle magic of about 14 or so and spellcraft around 18 at the end of the game.

quote:
Or when you're slowed and stay slowed for ten turns while they pummel you (you don't have enough AP to even use healing pods) and there's no way without "healmenow." The problem is you may need something in this particular level to be able to go further in the game successfully, like get to an exit to go to another region. Or they may be guarding some critical equipment that you need to make you stronger. But you're stuck because you can't get them.
Well, if you are an agent, don't get hit. Use haste to hit and run, or daze/strong daze to keep them from attacking. As a guardian without minions, I've won battles with high parry (like against the groups of ghosts you face in some areas). I'd get pummeled and be unable to move, but I would riposte once in a while and whittle them down. When I would get a chance to act, I'd attack or heal as necessary. With high parry, you can parry 50%, reduce damage 50%, and even riposte 50%. Don't ask me how that actually works, as that's 150%...that's just what the game displays.

Really, it sounds like your problem is mostly a lack of haste and hit and run, which can defeat most tough enemies. Strong daze is the best way to deal with groups...though aura of flames is fun when you can do it 3 times a round, hehe. But especially with an agent, try to avoid getting hit. And you don't need creations as an agent...
Posts: 12 | Registered: Thursday, February 13 2003 08:00
Shock Trooper
Member # 3862
Profile #134
Another suggestion would be to make the evolved forms of some creations actually different and not just change their name and color. Maybe even give the fire, battle, and magic shaped creatures their own special attributes like battle getting one more ap point or something.

If this was posted already in the forum I didnt see it. :)

--------------------
Legends tell that Avernum,
Is a gateway to the underworld,
from which the dead never return,
Well thats a lie because im here now aren't I.
--------------------------------
"Never get into a fight with an idiot. They drag you down to their level and beat you with experience."
Posts: 312 | Registered: Tuesday, January 6 2004 08:00
Warrior
Member # 3698
Profile Homepage #135
Maybe a snake with human arms, like a snake-centuar for a creation.

[ Tuesday, February 03, 2004 12:56: Message edited by: Tris10101 ]

--------------------
Hi. Why is the universe so BIG? Why am I human? How come hot dogs come in packages of 10 and buns 8? This will all be solved in time young padawan. Your quest for the ultimate Aztec manuer is coming to a climax. May the force be with you!!!
······························································
This is where I want you to click! Rate me! Ha Ha
Check out my GF 1, 2 and 3 Helper!
Ceck out some cool Mac OS X Apps that were made by me here!
10101 Software - You can take my iMac when you pry my cold, dead fingers off the wireless mouse!
Posts: 179 | Registered: Tuesday, November 18 2003 08:00
Infiltrator
Member # 3776
Profile Homepage #136
Or a shaper as a creation. :P .Truly shapers would be damn powerful and you will have an intelligent servant.

--------------------
Some stupid laws


If it is mine,it is mine.
If I had it a second ago,it is mine
If it looks like it is mine it is mine.
If it is your's and you keep it down,it becomes mine.
If I like something,it is mine
If I see something,then it is mine.

Please click here
Do not visit this Page

Want to visit the misc.boards-This is the only WAY

-Stinging Munster
Posts: 413 | Registered: Friday, December 12 2003 08:00
Shock Trooper
Member # 3862
Profile #137
I think it would be very cool if when you start the new game you are the Shaper teacher and you have an apprentice follow you around but you would control him/her like a creation. He/she could carry extra stuff for you, shape the smaller creations since he/she is an apprentice. Later on in the game he may be influenced by other people and leave you to join their side and you would have to fight him/her later or something of the sort.

--------------------
Legends tell that Avernum,
Is a gateway to the underworld,
from which the dead never return,
Well thats a lie because im here now aren't I.
--------------------------------
"Never get into a fight with an idiot. They drag you down to their level and beat you with experience."
Posts: 312 | Registered: Tuesday, January 6 2004 08:00
Apprentice
Member # 3319
Profile Homepage #138
I skimmed the other pages, but forgive me if this has been said already.

First of all, I'm a bit clumsy with the mouse and once I tried to target an adjacent thahd with a crystal and accidentally clicked myself, and proptly died from my OWN crystal blast. I have also accidentally clicked my own creations in this way too. Don't know why I should be able to target my own creations (and myself) but if it's intentional, the maybe there should be a confirmation message or something.

I also saw some people talking about equipping creations with armor. I f you really want to do something like this, I would suggest having charms that you can place on your creation (only one per creation, of course)that might do things like give a small armor bouns (nice for an artila) or increase the maximum spell energy slightly.

Uhh... I think that's all I've got...

--------------------
...Early or late
They stoop to fate,
And must give up their murmuring breath
When they, pale captives, creep to death.
Posts: 30 | Registered: Friday, August 8 2003 07:00
Apprentice
Member # 3851
Profile #139
A lot of great suggestions, Dunbar. Thanks.

I wonder if my experience would be different if I played in Normal mode. Maybe there are some overlooked discrepancies in relative strengths of PC&creations vs. enemies as you go from easy to ... what is it? insane? I think that might be one of the more difficult aspects of creating a game like this -- having to basically configure four different games. Maybe it's not quite an exact science and some things were overlooked. (Of course, sometimes I'm not using optimum strategy for the situation, but not always.) Next time, I think I'll be brave and try normal.

But back to strategy and the learning curve. Yep. I'm not terribly experienced at this -- though I'm certainly making some progress. That's why I find myself gravitating back to this forum. The suggestions I find here have enabled me to play and actually competently get through some tough regions and even enjoy myself instead of beating my head against the wall.

Strategywise, it depends on what character you choose. Part of the problem is that it's hard to hit and run with a shaper. Or... if you use adopted creations! LOL They are amazingly bold ... and dumb. Can't protect 'em. Many are the battles I find myself immersed in, wishing I had dismissed these knuckleheads already. Sometimes I want to get outta town without fighting at all! But NOOOO..
Posts: 34 | Registered: Saturday, January 3 2004 08:00
Apprentice
Member # 2634
Profile #140
Holly:

Well, I have to say I have little experience with shapers. I've beat G1 and G2 with an agent, played most of the way through G1 and finished G2 with a guardian, but never got very far as a shaper in either game. Just not my style...my agents and guardians always fight alone. Draging creations along is, for me, tedious.

And the creations you find that you can get to join you are not that useful. A minion you cannot order around is more a hinderance than a help...I'll take one of them on and promptly use them as cannon fodder.

As a shaper I would think you could make headway just through hit and run kamikaze missions...that is, send your minions in while your shaper hides in a safe spot, and kill what you can. If your minions die, go back to town and make more. Though having never gotten to the late game with a shaper, I have no idea how important it is to have creations you have had for a while and leveled up...
Posts: 12 | Registered: Thursday, February 13 2003 08:00
Shock Trooper
Member # 3174
Profile Homepage #141
just an idea for a story line...some kind of conspiracy among some of the shaper council, and some outside influence, to try and gain control of everything...it would be fun to figure out who, where, why and how then choose who u wanna fight for as always...have it on the mainland near cities and such. just a rough idea...but I love mysteries ^_^

--------------------
Aa' menle nauva calen ar' ta hwesta e' ale'quenle, melloneamin
Posts: 364 | Registered: Saturday, July 5 2003 07:00
Apprentice
Member # 3851
Profile #142
Dunbar, you don't know tedious until you take a small army of creations, hasted and in combat mode, through one of those energy-sapping regions. Moving each little pet one by one. Or try walking over lava pits alone and skip their turns and remember to click on yourself all the time. Oops... forgot... there he goes... gee, I sure liked him.... etc., etc.

(To creator of the Gs... please make turn off of pets more user-friendly!)

I recently used the hide-and-let-them-fight strategy to good advantage, and I think it should be a staple of the shaper. I was able to turn off some spirals and steal some items while they fought.

And .. yeah ... you think twice about losing a creation that has leveled up way beyond anything you could re-create. I played as an agent and it was even more so... because I didn't have much invested in shaping and the drayk was darned near as strong as I was. I like to have at least one creation as an agent late in the game -- it seems to level the playing field somewhat.
Posts: 34 | Registered: Saturday, January 3 2004 08:00
Apprentice
Member # 3971
Profile #143
I think the idea about creation equitment could be fun but since no two creations are the same (we are talking mutants here right) it would have to be made especialy for the creation wearing it, and that sounds a little dumb to me.
i think it would be nice if creations could interact a bit more, when i make a drakon that can shape cast spells and have an IQ at about 5000 i think it is anoying that it cant even do my math, and as for speaking, do anyone remember the familiars from baldurs gate 2 ?, they spoke quite alright, not that much dialouge, but it was fun, it would also be fitting that a sentient being is actually sentient, and that means communication, and why cant drakons and drayks (and serviles if you get to make those) learn spells?

And another thougt, what would happen if an augmented (or geneforged) human were to have kids, i mean its in the genes, so we would have ourselves a super kid, but would it glow, and be really mean and stuff.

and i would like my skills to give more bonuses, i just finished another game of GF1 and my agent had 30 DEX (GENEFORGE!!!!) but where is my ekstra AP´s, and why cant my super strong guardian rip doors open, why does he have to tinker with a door lock, when he can put holes two feet wide in a drakon with his fists?
all skills should have a few high level abilities.

a few general shaper skills would also be nice, and perhaps not just for the shaper, but my thougt were that a Thath leg is pretty much the same as a drayk leg, so why doesnt the shaper have a "basic shaping" skill.

oh, and more creations would be nice, each with their own HUGE advance, i always end up with the same creations, because the other ones simply are to weak.

[ Friday, February 13, 2004 17:13: Message edited by: Werner ]

--------------------
Did you hear that?
Nope
Are you sure?
-CRUNCH-
Nope
Posts: 7 | Registered: Wednesday, February 11 2004 08:00
Warrior
Member # 3987
Profile #144
i would like to be something more then a aprentice, a true shaper maybe. then i would like to travel in great shaper towns. then my inventory should be unlimited, its pure stupididi when you see a cool thing and cant take it. i would like to use the geneforge not to destroy it. its so stupid when you have a great source of power and cant use it :mad: . then i would like to have my own home and make turrets and mines to guard it. there also should be some more sects. old ones are boring. the idea of mercenaries is great. and i want to have more money than just lame30000. also the shopkeepers should be rich, i mean RICH. the backsounds are lame, there is no music :( . and also the sects should be powerful HA. i have killed the servants, the awakened with all their guards and the magus coplex, slayed the takers and crushed Bennerii-Uss. i havent destroyed the barzites because i am allied with them. but i wil soon beacause ill probably get borded.
Have you ever thought on a internet geneforge? it would be great. aah and one thing more there should be more armor and weaponary because just blades and swords are boring. and unlike some others i would like that quests would be all regranted with the same amount of XP . and glad with the graphics because i have played avenurms and exiles and know that the graphics there isnt a big deal. and like someone said (idont remeber his or her name) it would be great to have a drakon that shapes because it would save my essense . i hope someone will take notes because this is the resume of all the other good epinions.maybe ill add something later. ;)

--------------------
Shaper laws:
1. Kill everyone who hates you
2. Keep everyone who likes you
Posts: 146 | Registered: Saturday, February 14 2004 08:00
Warrior
Member # 3987
Profile #145
the things that skrewet said is a great idea . i would love that :D

--------------------
Shaper laws:
1. Kill everyone who hates you
2. Keep everyone who likes you
Posts: 146 | Registered: Saturday, February 14 2004 08:00
Warrior
Member # 3987
Profile #146
the things that skrewet said at page 3 is a great idea . i would love that :D

--------------------
Shaper laws:
1. Kill everyone who hates you
2. Keep everyone who likes you
Posts: 146 | Registered: Saturday, February 14 2004 08:00
Apprentice
Member # 3971
Profile #147
i have a problem with the fact that creations dont stop enemies trying to attack me, i have 7 super loyal drayks, and even thou they have AP´s left they dont intercept enemies trying to get to me, their shaper GOD
enemies kinda just run trough them, kill me, and bang! my game is over, i want creations to protect me, shapers kinda need that, and it would remove that tedius loading after a battle alpha/beta/gamma just go for the kill even thoug i could have killed it in the following turn, which really pisses me off.

Oh yeah and i think it would be great if you could gain titles as you level up, i hate it when Zak keep on calling me a newbie. fore an exampel you could become a full shaper at level 25, and you could tweak the game a bit by giving some kind of bonus when becoming a full shaper. alternatly you migt get the abillity to become a full shaper at some level but would have to find some one willing to train you.

it would also be nice to see some special skills like in the avernum series, i loved the deept it added to my char.

and the evolution of you creations need to be looked in to, i was really disapointed when i found out that all my trouble, when trying to keep my cryora alive was wasted after i got the drayk, someone should fix this, as it kinda takes a lot of the fun out of the game.

I have thougt about that thing about having a home, i would like to have a base of operation, perhaps you could become this great shaper, and you would have to gather stuff and people to your shaping hall, while trying to keep up political relations whit the sects (and whatever is in that damn vault) and fend off occasional attacks, from your several rivals who all want the power the gene tek. can give em (or the fellows hwo want to destroy the gene stuff) it would add a whole new dimension to the game. of course you would still have to walk around whit you creations and get the stuff you need, and attack people, but you would always have a place to store stuff, and maybe wage a little war of your own, perhaps even make a forge, both for genes and iron.

[ Sunday, February 22, 2004 11:27: Message edited by: Werner ]

--------------------
Did you hear that?
Nope
Are you sure?
-CRUNCH-
Nope
Posts: 7 | Registered: Wednesday, February 11 2004 08:00
Warrior
Member # 3987
Profile #148
the things that skrewet said at page 3 is a great idea . i would love that :D

--------------------
Shaper laws:
1. Kill everyone who hates you
2. Keep everyone who likes you
Posts: 146 | Registered: Saturday, February 14 2004 08:00
Shock Trooper
Member # 3683
Profile #149
Dunbar, if you would, please post your recommend stats of your agent at the end of the game. I like to be agent too, usually those npc with me don't live long although they serve some purposes.

About the next GF, I would like to see a more detailed resistance list there. Why on earth that for instance energy resistance is not listed although it exists in the game?

GF1 is ok for me, but GF2 is just a tad too hard even on lower difficulty. It gets me tired and bored by the end of the game.
Posts: 266 | Registered: Wednesday, November 12 2003 08:00

Pages