The Community Is Criminally Ignorant: A Study
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Bob's Big Date
Member # 3151
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written Sunday, October 31 2004 10:51
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On a recent thread, I started a poll with fact-based questions, for which there was one correct answer for each. There were 20 questions, 33 respondents, and a lot of discouraging data. 1: How many games has Spiderweb Software made? 6 -- 0% (0) 9 -- 12% (4) 11 -- 73% (24) 16 -- 15% (5) The community passes this question with 73%, or a C-. 4 respondents seemed to believe that Spidweb has made far fewer games than they have, while 5 seem to be crediting the 5 titles (Ocean Bound, Lost Souls, Homeland, SubTerra, and Galactic Core) that SW sells but did not author to SW. 2: Of these, which is the least recent? Blades of Exile -- 70% (23) Avernum (1) -- 12% (4) Geneforge (1) -- 18% (6) The community passes this question with 70%, or a bare C-. Most disturbing is the fact that more respondents considered Geneforge 1 the least recent of the three than Avernum 1. 3: Of these, which is the most recent? Blades of Exile -- 3% (1) Avernum -- 12% (4) Geneforge -- 85% (28) The community passes this question with a more comfortable 85%, or a B. The respondant claiming that Blades of Exile is more recent than Avernum and Geneforge is a little frightening. 4: Is there a significant plot difference between the Exile and Avernum series? Yes 3% (1) No 97% (32) The community passes this with a 97%, or an A+. At this point one begins to suspect that at least one person was taking the survey while very, very high. 5: How many ways are there to win Exile I and II? 1 -- 36% (12) 3 -- 42% (14) Both are open-ended -- 21% (7) The community fails this question with 42%, or a rather low F. To wit: in Exile 1, you can escape the Pit, kill Grah-Hoth, or assassinate Hawthorne; in Exile 2, you can kill Garzahd, destroy the Portal, or reclaim the stolen Crystal Souls. The statement 'there is one way to win each' is incorrect, and 'both are open-ended' is undebatably correct. 6: The following are playable factions in Nethergate: Romans, Fae -- 0% (0) Romans, Celts -- 97% (32) Celts, Fae -- 0% (0) Fae only -- 0% (0) Romans only -- 0% (0) Celts only -- 0% (0) Romans, Celts, Fae 3% (1) Community passes with 97% A+. The hypothesis advanced after Question 4 is growing increasingly accurate. 7: The following titles are in order of production: Exile 2, Geneforge, Avernum -- 3% (1) Avernum 2, Avernum 3, Blades of Exile -- 6% (2) Blades of Exile, Nethergate, Avernum -- 82% (27) eneforge [sic], Geneforge 2, Avernum 3 -- 9% (3) The community passes with 82%, or a B-. 8: How many scenarios are there for Blades of Exile? Less than 3 -- 0% (0) 3 -- 6% (2) More than 3, less than 20 -- 0% (0) More than 20, less than 100 -- 6% (2) 100 or more -- 88% (29) The community passes with 88%, or a B+. Alarming is the two respondents who seemed to believe there to be only 3 scenarios for Blades of Exile, where a visit to any peripheral site would confirm the reverse. 9: How many scenarios are there for Blades of Avernum, excluding the tutorial? Less than 4 -- 0% (0) 4 -- 6% (2) More than 4, less than 10 -- 73% (24) More than 10, less than 50 -- 21% (7) 50 or more -- 0% (0) The community passes with a 73%, or another C-. Again, two respondants seem to believe that there are only 4 scenarios for Blades. 10: Choose the most sensical analogy: Nodes:Exile::Scripts:Nethergate -- 6% (2) Nodes:Nethergate::Scripts:Exile -- 6% (2) Geneforge:Nethergate::Avernum:Exile -- 0% (0) Nodes:Exile::Scripts:Avernum -- 85% (28) vernum[sic]:Scripts::Geneforge:Spells -- 3% (1) The community passes with an 85% B; the person who believes scripts are the same as spells really ought to be shot. 11: How many employees does Spiderweb Software have? 1 -- 0% (0) 2 -- 21% (7) 3 -- 64% (21) 4 -- 12% (4) More than 4 -- 3% (1) The community skates by with a 64%, or a D-. The apparent belief that Spidweb consists of Mr. Vogel and his wife is common, and so, apparently, is the belief that they have hired someone else. 12: Who is Phil Foglio? A programmer -- 6% (2) A writer -- 0% (0) An artist -- 85% (28) A gaming critic -- 3% (1) Jeff Vogel's father-in-law -- 6% (2) The community passes with another 85% B. Where people got the idea that Vogel was married to a Foglio, I have no idea. 13: Which of Spiderweb's early titles has the most active fanbase? Exile -- 0% (0) Exile 3 -- 3% (1) Nethergate -- 0% (0) Blades of Exile -- 97% (32) The community passes with an encouraging 97% A+. 14: Which of Spiderweb's recent titles has the most active fanbase? Avernum -- 0% (0) Geneforge -- 0% (0) Avernum 3 -- 9% (3) Geneforge 2 -- 3% (1) Blades of Avernum -- 88% (29) Another pass; 88%, or B+. 15: True or false: Exile 3 introduced a damage cap. True -- 30% (10) False -- 70% (23) A bare 70% / C- pass here. That 10 people seem to believe that just because Av3 did it, Ex3 did as well, is somewhat alarming. 16: True or false: Blades of Exile's graphics are hugely different from Exile 1.0's. [i] True -- 42% (14) False -- 58% (19)[/i] The community fails with 42%. 17: True or false: The Vahnatai were alluded to in Exile 1. [i] True -- 61% (20) False -- 39% (13)[/i] A bare 61% pass. 18: True or false: Lost Bahssikava was completely new to Avernum 1. [i] True -- 64% (21) False -- 36% (12)[/i] Another bare skate at 64%. Yet another Exile-Avernum Conflation Syndrome victim. True or false: Jeff Vogel does not and has never planned to author 'Exile 4'. [i] True -- 88% (29) False -- 12% (4)[/i] 88%, or B+. True or false: Jeff Vogel generally has a good rapport with the community. True 15% (5) False -- 85% (28) 85%, or B, on what I considered the most crucial question. Final score: 506/660, or 76.6%. I don't know about you, but I find it a little disheartening the community supposed to be representing the biggest fans of SW's work can only pass a factual survey on it with a C. EDIT: As I was wrong on the Vahnatai question, the community gains +1.6%. [ Tuesday, November 02, 2004 19:22: Message edited by: Fear Uncertainty and Custer ] -------------------- The biggest, the baddest, and the fattest. Posts: 2367 | Registered: Friday, June 27 2003 07:00 |
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Warrior
Member # 5091
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written Sunday, October 31 2004 11:10
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I find EACS to be the most interesting bit -- especially how many people thought that the Vahnatai and Lost Bahssikiva or whatever were in Exile. Posts: 180 | Registered: Friday, October 15 2004 07:00 |
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BANNED
Member # 4
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written Sunday, October 31 2004 11:14
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I got #17 wrong- 95%. I might make a statistical survey on Blades of Exile scenarios alone- I'd be surprised if anyone passed. -------------------- * Posts: 6936 | Registered: Tuesday, September 18 2001 07:00 |
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Off With Their Heads
Member # 4045
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written Sunday, October 31 2004 11:28
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I have some issues with the wording on a few of these. I would have been more comfortable with 1 if it had been phrased, "How many games has Jeff Vogel made?" or something more specific. Also I would argue 5 outright: there are three quests that one must complete in order to "win" E1 and E2, but they each can only be done in one way and a final victory requires completion of all three. For 9, you are discounting utility scenarios. TM's Artifacts Hall and my HLPM push the number of scenarios to 11. For those who have never played the Exile Trilogy, questions 15, 16, 17, and 18 are rather meaningless. I did happen to get all of them right, because: one of the pages on SW's site says that Lost Bahssikava is new to Avernum; I'd heard some references to Exile 1.0's Jeff Vogel-drawn graphics (in a conversation with Djur, I think, or possibly Alec); I figured that it was reasonable to believe that Jeff made up the vahnatai for E2 (as they play no role in E/A1, really); and I guessed that E3 probably didn't have a damage cap. Still, to Avernites like myself, these are rather obscure pieces of information. -------------------- Arancaytar: Every time you ask people to compare TM and Kel, you endanger the poor, fluffy kittens. Smoo: Get ready to face the walls! Ephesos: In conclusion, yarr. Kelandon's Pink and Pretty Page!!: the authorized location for all things by me The Archive of all released BoE scenarios ever Posts: 7968 | Registered: Saturday, February 28 2004 08:00 |
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Shake Before Using
Member # 75
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written Sunday, October 31 2004 11:36
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9: How many scenarios are there for Blades of Avernum, excluding the tutorial? I'd count the 5-10 and 10-50 answers as equally correct. Posts: 3234 | Registered: Thursday, October 4 2001 07:00 |
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...b10010b...
Member # 869
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written Sunday, October 31 2004 11:37
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It's debatable whether the Vahnatai are alluded to in E1. The thing that's a sealed Vahnatai crypt in A1 is accessible in E1 as well (although the Vahnatai aren't mentioned), and the Exile I FAQ says that one can find out more about it in Exile II. Either in E1 Jeff was just teasing players without having decided what to tease them about, or he'd already thought of the Vahnatai. Kelandon: I believe the game explicitly describes each victory condition as "one of the ways to win" Exile/Exile II. [ Sunday, October 31, 2004 11:43: Message edited by: Thuryl ] -------------------- The Empire Always Loses: This Time For Sure! Posts: 9973 | Registered: Saturday, March 30 2002 08:00 |
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Apprentice
Member # 5092
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written Sunday, October 31 2004 11:55
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I apoligize everyone... I thought he meant just the pre-packaged scenarios when he asked about BoE and BoA........Yes I do know and play third party scenarios.... GOD I'M SO ASHAMED! Posts: 38 | Registered: Friday, October 15 2004 07:00 |
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Guardian
Member # 2238
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written Sunday, October 31 2004 13:50
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I'm the one that said Foglio was a game critic. I had no idea who he was. Other than that, I got everything right. Go me. -------------------- DEMON PLAY, DEMON OUT! Posts: 1582 | Registered: Wednesday, November 13 2002 08:00 |
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BANNED
Member # 5141
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written Sunday, October 31 2004 19:42
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Personally I feel that callling the SW community criminally ignorant because it doesn't know every aspect of all the games is ignorant in itself. I have never played BOE. I have never registered E1 I have never registered E2, I have registered A1, A2, E3, and BOA. Half of those questions had to do with how much time you have to spend on the computer, and how much money you have to waste on SW. (Regardless of whether or not it's worth it, it is a video game, therefore a waste of money) Here is an example: 5: How many ways are there to win Exile I and II? In Exile 2, you can kill Garzahd, destroy the Portal, or reclaim the stolen Crystal Souls. The statement 'there is one way to win each' is incorrect, and 'both are open-ended' is undebatably correct. I never played Exile 2 past the demo. I know that in Avernum 2, however, each one of those was an OBJECTIVE in order to win. So, having said that, I'm not sure if there was quite a point in this post. However saying that we are ignorant from the results of a test that was not extensive, is criminally ignorant. (However it does also scare me of some of the awnsers that people put. Some of them should, as you said, be shot.) [ Sunday, October 31, 2004 19:48: Message edited by: RavagedSoul ] Posts: 38 | Registered: Thursday, October 28 2004 07:00 |
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Agent
Member # 2820
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written Sunday, October 31 2004 21:15
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The Nethergate engine used scripts. -------------------- Thuryl: I mean, most of us don't go around consuming our own bodily fluids, no matter how delicious they are. ==== Alorael: War and violence would end if we all had each other's babies! ==== Drakefyre: Those are hideous mangos. Posts: 1415 | Registered: Thursday, March 27 2003 08:00 |
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For Carnage, Apply Within
Member # 95
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written Sunday, October 31 2004 22:16
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t Alec re: E1: Unless my knowledge of E1 is far less than it used to be, the Vahnatai are mentioned by name in the teaser cave. [ Sunday, October 31, 2004 22:20: Message edited by: Sarachim ] -------------------- The Empire Always Loses: More fun than a kick in the shins! Posts: 567 | Registered: Friday, October 5 2001 07:00 |
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Off With Their Heads
Member # 4045
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written Sunday, October 31 2004 23:54
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quote:Not in the way the Geneforge engine or BoA engine did. I see no text files sitting around in my Nethergate folder waiting to be converted into code. I'm pretty sure Nethergate and the Avernum Trilogy used nodes, just like the Exile Trilogy and BoE. -------------------- Arancaytar: Every time you ask people to compare TM and Kel, you endanger the poor, fluffy kittens. Smoo: Get ready to face the walls! Ephesos: In conclusion, yarr. Kelandon's Pink and Pretty Page!!: the authorized location for all things by me The Archive of all released BoE scenarios ever Posts: 7968 | Registered: Saturday, February 28 2004 08:00 |
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Triad Mage
Member # 7
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written Monday, November 1 2004 02:34
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The Vahnatai are alluded to in Exile I near Grah-Hoth's cave thingy. I never completed that part of Avernum 1 and still remember the Vahnatai, so I'm pretty sure that they were in Exile I. Also, I think that there are more than 10 BoA scenarios. Four included, four by TM, Death @ Chapman's, Cave of No Return, Babysitting, HLPM, and a Perfect Forest. That's 13. Even without Canopy, HLPM, and Artifacts Hall it's 10, which isn't even a choice. -------------------- "At times discretion should be thrown aside, and with the foolish we should play the fool." - Menander ==== Drakefyre's Demesne - Happy Happy Joy Joy Encyclopedia Ermariana - Trapped in the Closet ==== You can take my Mac when you pry my cold, dead fingers off the mouse! Posts: 9436 | Registered: Wednesday, September 19 2001 07:00 |
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Shock Trooper
Member # 3716
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written Monday, November 1 2004 12:06
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I totally agree with Ravaged soul, hello? it's just a game.. I only have fun with, I wouldn't spend my time studying it ;) -------------------- "Inspiration comes from hard work" -Charles Baudelaire. Posts: 292 | Registered: Sunday, November 23 2003 08:00 |
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BANNED
Member # 4
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written Monday, November 1 2004 13:31
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Wait, I've now made four? (Assuming that the Artifacts Hall is one, it's only three. Only. :P ) -------------------- * Posts: 6936 | Registered: Tuesday, September 18 2001 07:00 |
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...b10010b...
Member # 869
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written Monday, November 1 2004 13:44
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Wire was counting Canopy as one. -------------------- The Empire Always Loses: This Time For Sure! Posts: 9973 | Registered: Saturday, March 30 2002 08:00 |
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Infiltrator
Member # 4256
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written Monday, November 1 2004 17:22
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Eh- 17 and 5 wrong- Isn't the barrier passage in E1 as well? And 5, isn't that like saying that you have won BoE if you beat one scenario, with E1+2 you don't get the winning scene unless you complete all three conditions of victory, right? -------------------- "Let's just say that if complete and utter chaos was lightning, he'd be the sort to stand on a hilltop in a thunderstorm wearing wet copper armour and shouting 'All gods are false'." Posts: 564 | Registered: Wednesday, April 14 2004 07:00 |
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BANNED
Member # 5141
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written Monday, November 1 2004 18:31
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You are correct. Fear and Uncertainty was criminally ignorant in calling the SW community criminally ignorant. Posts: 38 | Registered: Thursday, October 28 2004 07:00 |
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For Carnage, Apply Within
Member # 95
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written Monday, November 1 2004 20:07
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People who take things too seriously die younger and have less attractive spouses than those who do not. -------------------- The Empire Always Loses: More fun than a kick in the shins! Posts: 567 | Registered: Friday, October 5 2001 07:00 |
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BANNED
Member # 5141
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written Monday, November 1 2004 22:07
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Do you mean me? I am not taking anything too seriously. Merely stating that I think Fear and Uncertainty is taking our "ignorant level" from a game too seriously. [ Monday, November 01, 2004 22:08: Message edited by: RavagedSoul ] Posts: 38 | Registered: Thursday, October 28 2004 07:00 |
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Apprentice
Member # 4952
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written Tuesday, November 2 2004 10:02
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Gee all this from a poll / questionare!!!?? I love the game, but couldn't answer half the questions. But I am still relatively new to the the game except for Geneforge!!! Does that make me ignorant? Gee I hope not!!! Also is it possible to list all the possible palyable scenerios other than the editors so that I can see if I have played them all??? Thx :cool: EDIT: Sorry, BoA not BoE, not all the Scenarios are listed in the SpiderWeb web page. Thx "The Eagle has landed" [ Tuesday, November 02, 2004 11:27: Message edited by: Eagle1 ] -------------------- Eagle1 Posts: 46 | Registered: Friday, September 10 2004 07:00 |
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Off With Their Heads
Member # 4045
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written Tuesday, November 2 2004 11:15
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Uh, all the scenarios for BoA or for BoE? Either way, I think your best bet is to go to the Lyceum's scenario rankings (either for BoE or for BoA) to get their names and then either to Alexandria to download the BoE scenarios or... uh... I guess Spiderweb's page to get the BoA ones. -------------------- Arancaytar: Every time you ask people to compare TM and Kel, you endanger the poor, fluffy kittens. Smoo: Get ready to face the walls! Ephesos: In conclusion, yarr. Kelandon's Pink and Pretty Page!!: the authorized location for all things by me The Archive of all released BoE scenarios ever Posts: 7968 | Registered: Saturday, February 28 2004 08:00 |
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Shaper
Member # 22
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written Tuesday, November 2 2004 11:34
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Anyway, in Britain, 75% is a solid B. Posts: 2862 | Registered: Tuesday, October 2 2001 07:00 |
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Bob's Big Date
Member # 3151
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written Tuesday, November 2 2004 19:19
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quote:Up yours, son. Being as how apparently I was wrong on one (whoops!), I'll update the statistics. -------------------- The biggest, the baddest, and the fattest. Posts: 2367 | Registered: Friday, June 27 2003 07:00 |
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Infiltrator
Member # 4256
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written Tuesday, November 2 2004 19:29
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quote:Nope he meant me. Shucks that means that my present relationship is doomed...... Unless someone gets a lot uglier. Hmmm.. I don't think that I have any heart condition yet though- should I go and see a doctor? Edit: Yeah that means I only got 1 wrong, I can live my life( no matter how short) in peace now. Could someone explain # 5 to me though? [ Tuesday, November 02, 2004 19:32: Message edited by: m's chosen ] -------------------- "Let's just say that if complete and utter chaos was lightning, he'd be the sort to stand on a hilltop in a thunderstorm wearing wet copper armour and shouting 'All gods are false'." Posts: 564 | Registered: Wednesday, April 14 2004 07:00 |