Challenging/Fun Moments?
| Author | Topic: Challenging/Fun Moments? |
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Shock Trooper
Member # 643
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written Monday, September 13 2004 00:31
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Im not sure if this has come up before, but as a novice scenerio designer I've been reading up on scenerio reviews (mostly BoE ones since they are more numerous) and alot of them suggest that puzzles need to be more fun, combat more challenging etc. What exactly makes for a challenging battle or fun imaginative puzzle? I've read articles on dungeon design and storyline developement, but have yet to find anything on these aspects that I would think make up the guts of playing any scenerio. -------------------- Fine Meal is people!!! Posts: 289 | Registered: Saturday, February 16 2002 08:00 |
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Agent
Member # 4506
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written Monday, September 13 2004 00:43
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Probably the best monster, is one which adapts to the party's weapons (increases resistances per attack), and also changes it's own level to be constantly higher than the party's (say, five levels higher). As such, a scenario like that will be perfect for all levels of party. However, since I'm not a great scripter, that idea is far into the future... for me. - Archmagi Micael -------------------- "You dare Trifle with Avernum?" ~ Erika the Archmage -------------------- My Scenarios: Undead Valley : A small Undead problem, what could possibly go wrong? -------------------- Richard Black - PROOF of his existance (the Infernal one's website). -------------------- MY FORUM! Randomosity at it's highest! :) Posts: 1370 | Registered: Thursday, June 10 2004 07:00 |
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Triad Mage
Member # 7
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written Monday, September 13 2004 01:01
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http://www.sitemouse.com/users/drakefyre/boa.html#art1 I don't see how you could have read dungeon design articles and somehow missed this one ... -------------------- "At times discretion should be thrown aside, and with the foolish we should play the fool." - Menander ==== Drakefyre's Demesne - Happy Happy Joy Joy Encyclopedia Ermariana - Trapped in the Closet ==== You can take my Mac when you pry my cold, dead fingers off the mouse! Posts: 9436 | Registered: Wednesday, September 19 2001 07:00 |
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Agent
Member # 2210
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written Monday, September 13 2004 01:19
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What makes battles interesting is making them tactical. There should be a variety of different kinds of battles. Monsters should have different abilities and require different strategies. For exampe. Have one battle with ruby skeletons and flame area skeletons. Another battle with spiders, aranea, and elder aranea. Another battle with asps, diseased asps, and naga. Another battle with bandits, priests, and mages. Use the terrain to give the monsters an advantage. For example create a gauntlet-- several monsters in the middle surrounded by archers, or put the monsters on islands or cliffs so they cannot be easily reached and you have to use missile combat. This game is very visual. Add in some new monsters as well. It is variety that makes combat better. -------------------- Wasting your time and mine looking for a good laugh. Star Bright, Star Light, Oh I Wish I May, I Wish Might, Wish For One Star Tonight. Posts: 1084 | Registered: Thursday, November 7 2002 08:00 |
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Shock Trooper
Member # 643
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written Monday, September 13 2004 01:19
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Thanks Drakefyre, I had come across that article before (and it was helpful going over it again). Also curious about what others think. It seems in BoA you can make things alot more interesting with scripted events for a battle then just adding items and abilities. -------------------- Fine Meal is people!!! Posts: 289 | Registered: Saturday, February 16 2002 08:00 |
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Agent
Member # 2210
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written Monday, September 13 2004 02:12
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One more thought use the environment to the advantage of the monsters. Demons have flaming floors, ice drakes-- icy floors, giant slugs-- disease causing swamps, deep dwellers-- total darkness, undead are in ruins-- think twisty corridors opportunities to corner and ambush the party, etc. -------------------- Wasting your time and mine looking for a good laugh. Star Bright, Star Light, Oh I Wish I May, I Wish Might, Wish For One Star Tonight. Posts: 1084 | Registered: Thursday, November 7 2002 08:00 |
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Apprentice
Member # 4847
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written Monday, September 13 2004 16:42
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Regardless of the battle/puzzle, what tends to draw me in most often are little acts of altruism, like retrieving the unicorn horn in Khazakai Run, or freeing the dragon in VODT. Even though these actions are rewarded, I could envision a subplot that would have only the reward of having done a good deed... (though there's also the potential for a 'no-good-deed goes unpunished' twist somewhere, too) -------------------- You are standing at the end of a road before a small brick building. Around you is a forest. A small stream flows out of the building and down a gully. Posts: 16 | Registered: Thursday, August 12 2004 07:00 |
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Shock Trooper
Member # 3368
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written Monday, September 13 2004 19:41
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Keep the battles inside. Outside battles are bad news. -------------------- "Like most of life's problems, this one can be solved with bending" Posts: 287 | Registered: Tuesday, August 19 2003 07:00 |
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Shock Trooper
Member # 643
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written Monday, September 13 2004 20:26
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Thanks for all the suggestions (thought I may have to go agaisn't yours Mojo, more as to keep my Scenerio true to its story). Nobody seems to have given any ideas on puzzles. Though im guessing its much harder to make a challenging and/or fun puzzle then to make battles fun. -------------------- Fine Meal is people!!! Posts: 289 | Registered: Saturday, February 16 2002 08:00 |
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BANNED
Member # 4943
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written Monday, September 13 2004 21:10
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A lot of the reason (i think) that people didn't put out any suggestions on puzzles is because a personal taste varies so much. Some people like puzzles, some people like black smith puzzles, some people like riddles. It all varies. Me personally I like puzzles that make me think, instead of making me do a repetitive task of stupidy. (like for example A3, push the barrels into the water. A2, finding the athame, push crap into water every time you resurface on the top level.) So I guess thats my only suggestion, probably a hard one to achieve though, for in order for you to make the player think, you have to do twice the thinking yourself. So good luck. -------------------- I start this off, without any words. I got so high, I scratched till I bled. Love myself, better then you. I know it's wrong, so what should I do? Posts: 94 | Registered: Tuesday, September 7 2004 07:00 |
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Agent
Member # 4506
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written Monday, September 13 2004 23:39
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quote:Another problem is that nobody talks about puzzles because while they may be hard to do,m they're easily copiable, and somebody else could make a version of your own idea, before you have your version out. - Archmagi Micael Unfortunately, thats the reason I can't talk about my puzzle sceanrio. -------------------- "You dare Trifle with Avernum?" ~ Erika the Archmage -------------------- My Scenarios: Undead Valley : A small Undead problem, what could possibly go wrong? -------------------- Richard Black - PROOF of his existance (the Infernal one's website). -------------------- MY FORUM! Randomosity at it's highest! :) Posts: 1370 | Registered: Thursday, June 10 2004 07:00 |
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Triad Mage
Member # 7
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written Tuesday, September 14 2004 01:01
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Some sort of moving terrain puzzle, like dressers moving from the top of a room to the bottom in a rhythm to block the player, and they can get squished if they're caught between the dressers and a wall. And mirror/laser puzzles are always good too. -------------------- "At times discretion should be thrown aside, and with the foolish we should play the fool." - Menander ==== Drakefyre's Demesne - Happy Happy Joy Joy Encyclopedia Ermariana - Trapped in the Closet ==== You can take my Mac when you pry my cold, dead fingers off the mouse! Posts: 9436 | Registered: Wednesday, September 19 2001 07:00 |
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Agent
Member # 2210
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written Tuesday, September 14 2004 01:13
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Personally, I like quests better than puzzles. The finding the ruby quest to make the Blaze Ring in A Perfect Forest. Recovering objects is always fun, or finding all the pieces to make a cool item you have to go various places, buy it, steal it, fight for it, answer riddles for it. Having to look for things is cool. So are delivery quests. Bring the map to the to the town of doodad, etc. -------------------- Wasting your time and mine looking for a good laugh. Star Bright, Star Light, Oh I Wish I May, I Wish Might, Wish For One Star Tonight. Posts: 1084 | Registered: Thursday, November 7 2002 08:00 |
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Lifecrafter
Member # 3608
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written Wednesday, September 15 2004 04:25
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quote:NO. -------------------- The Great Mister kommari@gmail.com[/url] Posts: 972 | Registered: Tuesday, October 28 2003 08:00 |
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Warrior
Member # 3241
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written Wednesday, September 15 2004 06:04
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Some unexpected battles like this example: "You walk towards the lower corridos of this city. Your warrior senses are warning you from something... The corridors seem to get more dark..." Suddenly behind you(Just behind your mages, if you keep them last.)appears a creature wich is Invicible to everything but melee weapons and is VERY strong at melee. Usually your mages die VERY fast, and your party have to melee fight. When you have fought and lost, you get the idea of putting strongest melee characters to back, and mages to leaders. If you want a hard fight from that, add another monster to appear in fromt of you. And I like some places where party gets separated and then if you are using a separated mage, you can face magic resistant creatures and ambushes wich force you to close combat. If warrior, melee resistant, achers who shoot from cliffs, mages... long range combat. And to achers, ambushes and magic. Your best bet in that kind of situations is to make a mage who is good at melee, or acher who can melee fight of some other mixed classes. And fights where there comes more enemies in time if they aren't stopped, but if you are trying to be devilish, use forcecaging enemise in battle like that :D . It will make players go :mad: and their computers go BUUM :P . [ Wednesday, September 15, 2004 06:09: Message edited by: Alkoi Avernumista... ] -------------------- Visit the www.monkkonen.net and if you like, be the member of the forums. Posts: 76 | Registered: Sunday, July 20 2003 07:00 |
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Apprentice
Member # 5027
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written Tuesday, September 28 2004 00:43
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I found the test of mind and the test of speed in E/A 2 awesome. Navigating a maze filled with creatures while on your own while running from quickfire could be really annoying and frustrating or terribly interesting. The puzzle which i found the most interesting was the golem conveyor belt thingy place in E3. [ Tuesday, September 28, 2004 00:46: Message edited by: Corpus Stalker ] -------------------- Diplomacy is telling someone to "Go to Hell" in such a way, they look forward to taking the trip. Posts: 16 | Registered: Tuesday, September 28 2004 07:00 |
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Triad Mage
Member # 7
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written Tuesday, September 28 2004 01:24
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quote:Crazy Finn. -------------------- "At times discretion should be thrown aside, and with the foolish we should play the fool." - Menander ==== Drakefyre's Demesne - Happy Happy Joy Joy Encyclopedia Ermariana - Trapped in the Closet ==== You can take my Mac when you pry my cold, dead fingers off the mouse! Posts: 9436 | Registered: Wednesday, September 19 2001 07:00 |