Governments

AuthorTopic: Governments
Infiltrator
Member # 148
Profile #0
I'm trying to figure out how the governments of Avernum and the Empire are structured.

As far as I know:
Avernum -
Monarchy w/ an advisory council made up of the mayors 6 biggest cities in Avernum. No aristocratic class. Legislation is passed by the monarch, judged by the mayor of the cities with appeal to the monarch.

Q:
1. Are mayors elected or appointed?
2. What power do the individual cities have?

Empire -
Imperial government. Each nation/region is divided with a governor ruling it. Each governor appoints mayor to rule the individual cities. Has a aristocracy. Some regions may be feudal.

Q:
1. What role does the nobility play?

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My ego is bigger than yours.
Posts: 480 | Registered: Thursday, October 11 2001 07:00
Warrior
Member # 8285
Profile #1
How did you come up with those? You must of been playing the Avernum games for ages! Also does it realy matter? I mean your an Adventurer I don't think your running for mayor...are you? :eek:

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Posts: 65 | Registered: Saturday, March 10 2007 08:00
Councilor
Member # 6600
Profile Homepage #2
Originally by Kernio the Magnificent:

quote:
Also does it realy matter? I mean your an Adventurer I don't think your running for mayor...are you? :eek:
You will note that this is the Blades of Avernum forum. Dahak might be planning a BoA scenario that relates to this topic somehow, or maybe he's just curious.

Dikiyoba.
Posts: 4346 | Registered: Friday, December 23 2005 08:00
Agent
Member # 8030
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quote:
1. What role does the nobility play?
I didn't know the Empire had nobility.

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WWJD?
Posts: 1384 | Registered: Tuesday, February 6 2007 08:00
Agent
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In Avernum in New Cotra (I believe) the innkeeper/mayor says that he was simply pressured into taking the job; however, because the town was small and in Upper Avernum things may have been a little more informal.

The cities, from what little evidence may be percieved, are in a loose federation under the monarchy of their own will; there is little military movement from town to town, and the Avernum monarchy doesn't have a large enough army to enforce its will from one corner of the nation to the other. Also, the existence of the rogue state Bargha supports the idea that cities are more or less independent.

In the Empire, the upper tiers of bureaucracy are, as far as I know, dominated by a few families. Below that, the mayors and governors are presumably appointed; I can't see the Imperials using a democratic system. Since we've never seen evidence of a vulgar, common mayor, they're probably farmed from the upper class. Positions above or equal to those of mayor and governor, such as General and Headmaster, probably came from social ranks either equal or higher.

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quote:
Originally written by Kelandon
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Posts: 1115 | Registered: Sunday, May 15 2005 07:00
Raven v. Writing Desk
Member # 261
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Bargha is not a rogue state. Bargha is in the Abyss, which is pretty much never part of the Exile/Avernum government even though it's in the caves.

Also, the Council appears to have been disbanded as of A4.

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Posts: 3560 | Registered: Wednesday, November 7 2001 08:00
Infiltrator
Member # 148
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Imperial nobles are the tourists of Avernum in A4. I always thought of the Abyss cities as independents city-states.

Why do I want to know? Because.

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Law Bringer
Member # 2984
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Slarty: What has replaced the council in A4? Iron-fisted, centralized monarchy or even more autonomy for the individual cities?

(And yes, I do still need to register and finish...)

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Posts: 8752 | Registered: Wednesday, May 14 2003 07:00
Law Bringer
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The mayors in Avernum are elected by the locals. Although some of them seem to be forced into the job and take it reluctantly.

By A4 the mayors have lost a lot of their power during the regency leading up to Starrus taking over. They are locally powerful, but have less control versus the king.
Posts: 4643 | Registered: Friday, February 10 2006 08:00
Guardian
Member # 6670
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You have pretty much free reign with the Empire. In A3, all we see is Valorim - a frontier continent with no real powerbase. There's martial law in the north (Blackcrag and the Army), and in all other places, there's the mayors who do pretty much what they want. There's no reason not to think that the other continents have a more centralized form of government (this is an Empire, after all). Not much in the games talk about how the government works in the more populated areas. We know that there can be political struggle among the mages, and previous roleplays have given rise to the notion that the Empire has ruling Houses.

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Posts: 1509 | Registered: Tuesday, January 10 2006 08:00
Infiltrator
Member # 148
Profile #10
The way I saw things there could be the following setups:

a. Multiple houses/families with Prazac's being the ruling house/family.

b. Government officials could be elected (unlikely), appointed (likely), inherited (?). Those appointed could be along the lines of a family appointment where a family rules a branch of the bureaucracy and uses its power in that branch to secure jobs for its people. Or there could be a test with top people passing & with influence getting the good jobs.

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Posts: 480 | Registered: Thursday, October 11 2001 07:00
Lifecrafter
Member # 6193
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What about dervishes? Dervishes certainly seem to wield a lot of influence, and I'm not sure if all of the ones in A3 were described as being in top condition. In other words, are military ranks handed out on merit in battle, or is that a family or political thing as well?

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Well, we know they're handed out for merit at least some of the time; the PCs are made honorary Dervishes for winning E/A3.

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Posts: 9973 | Registered: Saturday, March 30 2002 08:00
Infiltrator
Member # 148
Profile #13
Getting a dervish rank is like a knighthood w/o the land.

Q: Who owns the land?

[ Tuesday, March 13, 2007 07:55: Message edited by: Dahak ]

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Shaper
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The Empire does indeed have a nobility, as seen in A Small Rebellion. However, they're certainly not very prominent in society, and the Empire seems to rely more heavily on bureaucrats. This seems similar to the Carolingian Empire from the middle ages. Rome had just fallen, and there wasn't really a sense of landed aristocracy, and so the Emperors instead ruled mostly through trained bureaucrats. The decendants of these bureaucrat became the nobility later on. This would seems to hint that the surface Empire in the games is not as old as it claims to be, since it relies more on Imperial law and professionals rather than tradition and lineage. Interesting.

[ Tuesday, March 13, 2007 08:55: Message edited by: Emperor Tullegolar ]

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Posts: 2156 | Registered: Thursday, August 24 2006 07:00
Infiltrator
Member # 148
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Also, there are serfs as indicated in A Small Rebellion. I haven't played it in a while so I need to recheck, but was serfdom dying out? Also that seems to the only sign of serfs in all of the games.

Is there any indication of how the upper government is structured?

Edit:
Has the Empire discovered all major & minor landmasses on the surface? I seem to recall that they had, but I'm not sure.

[ Tuesday, March 13, 2007 09:20: Message edited by: Dahak ]

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Shock Trooper
Member # 136
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quote:
Rome had just fallen, and there wasn't really a sense of landed aristocracy, and so the Emperors instead ruled mostly through trained bureaucrats. The decendants of these bureaucrat became the nobility later on. This would seems to hint that the surface Empire in the games is not as old as it claims to be, since it relies more on Imperial law and professionals rather than tradition and lineage. Interesting.
The Emperors of China ruled on top of a bureaucratic system for more than a thousand years. I wouldn't call that a lack of tradition and lineage :D
Also, the Spanish Empire governed America from the European metropolis: even viceroys were Spaniard noblemen covering an assignment for some years, not the children of a local aristocracy ruling for their lifetime. Spain itself was different, with the succesive Kings still fighting for increasing their imperial power against the old feudal priviledges. Just think, most rebellions in these age were led by some nobleman or another, specially those that fought for "people's" rights and not for pure hunger.
Posts: 253 | Registered: Tuesday, October 9 2001 07:00
Law Bringer
Member # 4153
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quote:
Originally written by Dahak:

Q: Who owns the land?
Well, feudal systems seem to be pretty rare in Empire lands as they've been explored so far. ASR is the only exception, I think.

It seems like land ownership is just kind of a "my family's been here for fifty years, so the land is mine" sort of system. There don't seem to be many large estates (except for Hawke's Manse and the dead general's home in E:R), and there's definitely a point past which most large homes become evil lairs.

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