The Bad Get Polling!

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AuthorTopic: The Bad Get Polling!
Lack of Vision
Member # 2717
Profile #75
quote:
Originally written by Nemesis:

That makes the bombers evil? They were just acting on orders. Ever seen "A Few Good Men"? Similar story. When someone in the armed forces gets ordered to do something, even if they think it's immoral, they still have to do it, or it raises all kinds of hell for them personally. In cases like that, it's lose-lose for them.


Okay, let me stop you right there.

When you take the oath to join the Marine Corp, you take an oath to uphold the Constitution of the United States. Not your CO, not the CiC, not the JCoS. Your oath is the the Supreme Law of the Land.

One of the first things you learn in the Corp is that you are EXPECTED to disregard any illegal order. This is serious stuff - following orders is no defense from prosecution. And military justice allows for a much wider array of punishments than civilian courts.

If we presume that the Hiroshima bomber pilot knew what he was doing, then he followed an illegal order (a war crime no less!) and deserves to be hanged. The legal standard is crystal clear on this point. Why it wasn't followed is a matter for political and legal theorists to debate. But the standard is clear.

Z

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Pan Lever: Seventeen apple roving mirror moiety. Of turned quorum jaggedly the. Blue?
Posts: 186 | Registered: Thursday, February 27 2003 08:00
Shaper
Member # 7472
Profile Homepage #76
Another example is the Abu-Ghraib prison scandal in Iraq. Despite the ability to refuse an order, the people are scared of what would happen next.

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AmnesiaDileciaThe Empire's New GroveExpress Delivery
Twilight ValleyWitch HuntWhere the Rivers Meet
Posts: 2686 | Registered: Friday, September 8 2006 07:00
The Establishment
Member # 6
Profile #77
quote:
If we presume that the Hiroshima bomber pilot knew what he was doing, then he followed an illegal order (a war crime no less!) and deserves to be hanged. The legal standard is crystal clear on this point. Why it wasn't followed is a matter for political and legal theorists to debate. But the standard is clear.
The legality of the bombings of hiroshima and nagasaki are on fiarly firm ground. It's a difficult situation considering the situation of total war (civilians were trained to fight in an invasion too so the lines between civilain and soldier are a bit gray here).

There are no easy choices in war, but it came down to lots lost on both sides, or lots lost on theirs. It is quite likely the bombings saved lives in the long run. Add this with the fact that the US was fighting back from a defensive war (Pearl Harbor) against an enemy that refused to surrender and wanted to continue fighting.

One could argue the morality a lot of ways. I doubt there were many good choices to end the war within the mindsets of the people fighting it.

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Your flower power is no match for my glower power!
Posts: 3726 | Registered: Tuesday, September 18 2001 07:00
Off With Their Heads
Member # 4045
Profile Homepage #78
The alternative to dropping the bomb — continuing island hopping — was not exactly going to be a picnic. Read up on Iwo Jima. I shudder to think what would've happened if American forces had to do the same thing on Honshu as they did on Iwo Jima.

It's worth bearing in mind, too, that the Japanese were a generation or two removed from the most intense medieval honor society ever to exist. Surrender was far, far worse than death.

Back on topic, Rentar? A good villain? In BoA?! Rentar was not the greatest character to begin with, and her only appearance has been in UV!

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Arancaytar: Every time you ask people to compare TM and Kel, you endanger the poor, fluffy kittens.
Smoo: Get ready to face the walls!
Ephesos: In conclusion, yarr.

Kelandon's Pink and Pretty Page!!: the authorized location for all things by me
The Archive of all released BoE scenarios ever
Posts: 7968 | Registered: Saturday, February 28 2004 08:00
Guardian
Member # 5360
Profile #79
-X- sees potential in this topic. Specifically, -X- sees that potential of this topic to blossom in to a multi-topic, severely confusing, war of ideals and opinions that will tear apart the forums as we know it and instigate a massive war of Dikiyobian proportions.

-X- will be watching with this with all the intensity of a fluffy turtle watching -X- devour it alive.

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May the fires of Undeath burn in your soul, and consume it.
Posts: 1636 | Registered: Wednesday, January 5 2005 08:00
Lifecrafter
Member # 6193
Profile Homepage #80
-X-: in your 14 posts today I have yet to see a useful contribution. Saying "This is a nice arguement" isn't necessary.

And if you're really as obsessed with Diki's fanfic as you're making out to be, then keep it to that thread.

(Ok, back on topic a bit. I agree with Thuryl and co., Stalker isn't a great villain, but he's reasonably well developed and probably deserving of a top 5 spot.)

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Guaranteed to blow your mind.

Frostbite: Get It While It's...... Hot?
Posts: 900 | Registered: Monday, August 8 2005 07:00
Guardian
Member # 5360
Profile #81
In the purpose of satisfying CERTAIN PEOPLE -X- will contribute to this argument. -X- voted for all of the villains in the Bahssikava/Exodus scenarios, and another one that he forgets. -X- says that he recognizes Stalkers inherent villain-e-ness, but doesn't think that he's the best of them all. -X- says that he knows Dalaghant lacked depth somewhat, because that part of the scenario he considered rushed, but -X- sometimes makes up background stories for villains that lack feeling. -X- can envision the countless centuries that Dalaghant sat through during his stay at the Vanhatai labratory, directing undead to do the same thing over and over again, never having the need to speak, conducting sacrifices over and over until the meaning drained out of them, but not stopping because he knew, that when his god was free, he would punish him if he deserted.

There. -X- hopes that he made you happy.

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May the fires of Undeath burn in your soul, and consume it.
Posts: 1636 | Registered: Wednesday, January 5 2005 08:00
Lifecrafter
Member # 7538
Profile Homepage #82
-Disregard-

[ Saturday, October 21, 2006 09:05: Message edited by: Nemesis ]

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Do not provoke the turtles.
They do not like being provoked.

-Lenar

My website: Nemesis' Refuge
Posts: 743 | Registered: Friday, September 29 2006 07:00
Law Bringer
Member # 4153
Profile Homepage #83
quote:
Originally written by -X-:

-X- voted for all of the villains in the Bahssikava/Exodus scenarios
Ack. Galthrax was just as underdeveloped as Kharprev and Rentar.

(I still want to know who voted for Kharprev)

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Gamble with Gaea, and she eats your dice.

I hate undead. I really, really, really, really hate undead. With a passion.
Posts: 4130 | Registered: Friday, March 26 2004 08:00
Guardian
Member # 5360
Profile #84
-X- agrees with Esphesos that Galthrax was severely under-developed. -X- voted for him because, in his book, the slith scenarios always come out on top.

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May the fires of Undeath burn in your soul, and consume it.
Posts: 1636 | Registered: Wednesday, January 5 2005 08:00
Law Bringer
Member # 4153
Profile Homepage #85
quote:
Originally written by -X-:

-X- voted for him because, in his book, the slith scenarios always come out on top.
Pardon me for asking, but exactly why do you choose to hold this particularly uninformed opinion? I don't really understand the flawed logic which you seem hellbent on using. Please explain.

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Gamble with Gaea, and she eats your dice.

I hate undead. I really, really, really, really hate undead. With a passion.
Posts: 4130 | Registered: Friday, March 26 2004 08:00
Guardian
Member # 5360
Profile #86
-X- says that you are instigating another forum-war, but he will reply anyway. -X- simply likes slith. -X- very much enjoys the two scenarios because they bring further depth to slith as a race. -X- is also unclear on whether or not a actually voted for Galthrax. -X- says that he made his vote at about 1:30 AM last night, and things are looking foggy. -X- only knows that four of his votes went to the slith scenario villains. If -X- did vote for Galthrax, then -X- will wait for you to reply to this post to get an argument from his bag of them in the other room.

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May the fires of Undeath burn in your soul, and consume it.
Posts: 1636 | Registered: Wednesday, January 5 2005 08:00
Shaper
Member # 7472
Profile Homepage #87
Except this is a poll for best villain, not which scenarios you think were good. And yes, Galthrax was in Bahssikava.

And no, I will NOT start a poll for best scenario.

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AmnesiaDileciaThe Empire's New GroveExpress Delivery
Twilight ValleyWitch HuntWhere the Rivers Meet
Posts: 2686 | Registered: Friday, September 8 2006 07:00
Councilor
Member # 6600
Profile Homepage #88
Originally by Ephesos (look closely at how I spelled his name, -X-):

quote:
(I still want to know who voted for Kharprev)
Wouldn't it be terrible if someone had intended to vote for another villain and voted for Kharprev by accident? :P

Originally by Nioca:

quote:
And no, I will NOT start a poll for best scenario.
Dikiyoba should hope not. That's what the Lyceum is for.
Posts: 4346 | Registered: Friday, December 23 2005 08:00
Lifecrafter
Member # 7538
Profile Homepage #89
The following is just for the sake of making a point. I have otherwise no intention of talking in the third person perspective.

START 3RD PERSON RANT

Here's what Nemesis thinks. Nemesis thinks that -X- should let Dikiyoba be Dikiyoba and stop trying to repeatedly kiss up. Nemesis also thinks -X- should remain silent until he/she has something to say that's worth saying.

END 3RD PERSON RANT

No offense, Dikiyoba. I respect you. But honestly. Worshippers?

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Do not provoke the turtles.
They do not like being provoked.

-Lenar

My website: Nemesis' Refuge
Posts: 743 | Registered: Friday, September 29 2006 07:00
Councilor
Member # 6600
Profile Homepage #90
Originally by Nemesis:

quote:
No offense, Dikiyoba. I respect you. But honestly. Worshippers?
That's not an entirely fair statement. It makes it sound like I have some sort of control over -X-. I don't.

But don't worry. Dikiyoba wasn't offended by the rant.
Posts: 4346 | Registered: Friday, December 23 2005 08:00
Lifecrafter
Member # 7538
Profile Homepage #91
quote:
Originally written by Ghost of Diknyoba:

Originally by Nemesis:

quote:
No offense, Dikiyoba. I respect you. But honestly. Worshippers?
That's not an entirely fair statement. It makes it sound like I have some sort of control over -X-. I don't.

But don't worry. Dikiyoba wasn't offended by the rant.

Well, it wasn't intended for it to sound like that, but I can see where you're coming from. Basically what I'm saying is that while imitation can be flattering, it's almost invariably at least twice as annoying.

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Do not provoke the turtles.
They do not like being provoked.

-Lenar

My website: Nemesis' Refuge
Posts: 743 | Registered: Friday, September 29 2006 07:00
Shaper
Member # 7420
Profile Homepage #92
quote:
Originally written by Ghost of Diknyoba:

[It makes it sound like I have some sort of control over -X-.
Hmm, but maybe you do. Give him an order and see what happens!

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You lose.
Posts: 2156 | Registered: Thursday, August 24 2006 07:00
Agent
Member # 27
Profile #93
quote:
Wouldn't it be terrible if someone had intended to vote for another villain and voted for Kharprev by accident?
I wanted to vote for Kharprev, but ended up voting for Rentar by accident.
Posts: 1233 | Registered: Wednesday, October 3 2001 07:00
Law Bringer
Member # 4153
Profile Homepage #94
quote:
Originally written by Enraged Slith:

I wanted to vote for Kharprev, but ended up voting for Rentar by accident.
Ouch. I'm kind of offended by that one. :P

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Gamble with Gaea, and she eats your dice.

I hate undead. I really, really, really, really hate undead. With a passion.
Posts: 4130 | Registered: Friday, March 26 2004 08:00
Lifecrafter
Member # 7538
Profile Homepage #95
Hmm… agree. That hurts, slith. And it didn't even happen to me!

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Do not provoke the turtles.
They do not like being provoked.

-Lenar

My website: Nemesis' Refuge
Posts: 743 | Registered: Friday, September 29 2006 07:00
Guardian
Member # 5360
Profile #96
Dikiyoba has no control over -X-. -X- merely likes Dikiyoba's style (whatever it is). -X- will also say anything that he thinks is worth saying.

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May the fires of Undeath burn in your soul, and consume it.
Posts: 1636 | Registered: Wednesday, January 5 2005 08:00
The Establishment
Member # 6
Profile #97
quote:
-X- will also say anything that he thinks is worth saying.
Oh really now? Let's see what DC says about that... :P

[ Monday, October 23, 2006 20:33: Message edited by: *i ]

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Your flower power is no match for my glower power!
Posts: 3726 | Registered: Tuesday, September 18 2001 07:00
Shake Before Using
Member # 75
Profile #98
I voted for Kharprev because I liked (making fun of) his old name.
Posts: 3234 | Registered: Thursday, October 4 2001 07:00
Law Bringer
Member # 4153
Profile Homepage #99
quote:
Originally written by Imban:

I voted for Kharprev because I liked (making fun of) his old name.
Eventually, people will forget that. I'm sure of it.

(flees)

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Gamble with Gaea, and she eats your dice.

I hate undead. I really, really, really, really hate undead. With a passion.
Posts: 4130 | Registered: Friday, March 26 2004 08:00

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