Helpful Scenario Tips...

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AuthorTopic: Helpful Scenario Tips...
Shaper
Member # 7472
Profile Homepage #0
Here are some tips and pointers about scenario design. Some are serious, some are funny, some are outright ridiculous. Take all of them with several pounds of salt.
Keep dialogue nodes short and sweet.Don't make your first dungeon a three-part dungeon. (I know this from personal experience.)Making a sequel to Za-Khazi Run is probably not a good idea.Don't have a place where you can get tons of superpowered items.Making a sequel to Undead Valley is definitely a bad idea.With high level scenarios, upgrading potions, wands, and scrolls is not a bad idea.Try to avoid having the party make blatantly stupid desicions.New classes of weapons, armor, helmets, and so forth can an intriguing new element to a scenario.Spelling: A scenario's best friend.Grammar: A scenario's second best friend.Don't work on scenarios at 2:00 in the morning.Don't make your first scenario a three-part series.Always backup your work before and after every work session. Then backup your backup, because the turtles are hungry tonight.Don't break any of these rules until you know why they exist.Don't be influenced by any Michael Slack scenarios.Don't refer to scenarios as scenarii.Don't talk about your scenario unless you're sure you'll release it.Please do not revolve your scenario's plot around anything to do with demons.If it doesn't add to the plot, you should probably get rid of it (applies to any junk you throw into your scenarios).Try not to sway from the original idea behind your story. Give it a plot, and stick to it.Don't have Rentar-Ihrno as a main villain. Doing so will just give everyone on this board another reason to hate her. And I can't blame them.Avoid directly tell the player to do something. Sometimes you can't dodge it, but try as much as you can. (This doesn't mean you can't put a notice in your readme.)One way to cut down on crime is to put a level 100 cat in the town, arm it with the finest armor and weaponry, give it the ability to petrify, and set each of it's resistances to 99%. No criminal will set foot in said town again.Don't take away a party's equipment, unless you plan to give them back.Make sure all of your quests can be completed.If the party is promised a reward for completing a mission, give it to them. (Mayor DeBry, Dharmon, Avernum 1 :mad: )If the party is NOT given a promised reward, give them a means to rightfully *DECIMATE* the jerk who lied to them.Giving a powerful piece of equipment to the party partway through a scenario, then taking it away at the end is an excellent way to frustrate people.Randomly killing the party is not a good idea.Don't exit the scenario immediately after the party has been killed, unless you want to permenantly wreck that save file.Do not attempt to make the largest scenario ever.Avoid monster plagues like the plague.Always have your scenarios beta-tested.Do not try to imitate the Exile/Avernum games.Do not abuse out-of-dialogue-box text.Break all of these rules, and do whatever you want.Don't try to make big scenarios if you haven't experience or/and you almost never played Avernum and/or Exile Series.Feel free to contribute to this list.

[ Saturday, October 21, 2006 08:18: Message edited by: Ghouloca ]

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AmnesiaDileciaThe Empire's New GroveExpress Delivery
Twilight ValleyWitch HuntWhere the Rivers Meet
Posts: 2686 | Registered: Friday, September 8 2006 07:00
Guardian
Member # 6670
Profile Homepage #1
I'd like to expand on #2:
- Don't make your first scenario a three-part series.

#1 is a good rule of thumb, but there definitely are exceptions. And if I followed #11 to the letter, nothing would ever get done.

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Here lies the body of Emily White.
She signalled left,
and then turned right.
Posts: 1509 | Registered: Tuesday, January 10 2006 08:00
? Man, ? Amazing
Member # 5755
Profile #2
#1 on the list should actually read

quote:
1. Always backup your work before and after every work session. Then backup your backup, because the turtles are hungry tonight.


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quote:
Originally written by Kelandon:

Well, I'm at least pretty sure that Salmon is losing.


Posts: 4114 | Registered: Monday, April 25 2005 07:00
Infiltrator
Member # 4826
Profile #3
12. Don't break any of these rules until you know why they exist.
13. Don't be influenced by any Michael Slack scenarios.
14. Don't refer to scenarios as scenarii.
15. Don't talk about your scenario unless you're sure you'll release it.
16. Please do not revolve your scenario's plot around anything to do with demons.
17. If it doesn't add to the plot, you should probably get rid of it (applies to any junk you throw into your scenarios).

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Bring back TM or [i]DIE.[/i]

To spread the hype, as well as cause your crush's name to appear on the screen, copy this into your signature.
Posts: 458 | Registered: Friday, August 6 2004 07:00
Law Bringer
Member # 4153
Profile Homepage #4
18. Break all of these rules, and do whatever the heck you want.

Seriously, people...

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Gamble with Gaea, and she eats your dice.

I hate undead. I really, really, really, really hate undead. With a passion.
Posts: 4130 | Registered: Friday, March 26 2004 08:00
Shake Before Using
Member # 75
Profile #5
While I think a scenario described as the sequel to the Za-Khazi Run existed for BoE and was better than the ZKR, I think making a sequel to Undead Valley would be inadvisable regardless of, well, anything.
Posts: 3234 | Registered: Thursday, October 4 2001 07:00
...b10010b...
Member # 869
Profile Homepage #6
Eh. I recall such a scenario existing, but I recall it being worse than ZKR. As in "make the party walk through a 64x64 maze for no good reason" worse. :P

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The Empire Always Loses: This Time For Sure!
Posts: 9973 | Registered: Saturday, March 30 2002 08:00
Lifecrafter
Member # 7538
Profile Homepage #7
quote:
Spelling: A scenario's best friend.
Grammar: A scenario's second best friend.
Seconded. Spelling and grammatical errors are the #1 killer of any good story. BoA scenarios are by no means an exception.

Rules of thumb regarding certain scenarios:
-"Want" has no apostrophe before the "t".
-"Crescent" has a second "c" in it.
-"Vegneance", unless it's another word for veganism, is not a word at all.
-Commas are your friend, but so is other punctuation.

Another good rule: Try not to sway from the original idea behind your story. Give it a plot, and stick to it.

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Do not provoke the turtles.
They do not like being provoked.

-Lenar

My website: Nemesis' Refuge
Posts: 743 | Registered: Friday, September 29 2006 07:00
Shaper
Member # 7472
Profile Homepage #8
Four more of my own:

21. Don't have Rentar-Ihrno as a main villain. Doing so will just give everyone on this board another reason to hate her. And I can't blame them.
22. Avoid directly tell the player to do something. Sometimes you can't dodge it, but try as much as you can. (This doesn't mean you can't put a notice in your readme.)
23. One way to cut down on crime is to put a level 100 cat in the town, arm it with the finest armor and weaponry, give it the ability to petrify, and set each of it's resistances to 99%. No criminal will set foot in said town again.
24. Don't take away a party's items, unless you plan to give them back.

[ Monday, October 02, 2006 09:05: Message edited by: Nioca ]

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AmnesiaDileciaThe Empire's New GroveExpress Delivery
Twilight ValleyWitch HuntWhere the Rivers Meet
Posts: 2686 | Registered: Friday, September 8 2006 07:00
Lifecrafter
Member # 7538
Profile Homepage #9
Some more generally good rules:

-Make sure all of your quests can be completed.
-If the party is promised a reward for completing a mission, give it to them. (Mayor DeBry, Dharmon, Avernum 1 :mad: )
-If the party is NOT given a promised reward, give them a means to rightfully *DECIMATE* the jerk who lied to them.

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Do not provoke the turtles.
They do not like being provoked.

-Lenar

My website: Nemesis' Refuge
Posts: 743 | Registered: Friday, September 29 2006 07:00
Shaper
Member # 3442
Profile Homepage #10
quote:
Originally written by Nioca:

24. Don't take away a party's items, unless you plan to give them back.
Why not? This can be a really good idea in some situations.

25: Don't play by the rules. As Ephesos said. Innovating, and doing things differently, is the life-blood of BoA.

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And when you want to Live
How do you start?
Where do you go?
Who do you need to know?

Posts: 2864 | Registered: Monday, September 8 2003 07:00
Shaper
Member # 7472
Profile Homepage #11
quote:
Originally written by Reggie Kray xx:

quote:
Originally written by Nioca:

24. Don't take away a party's items, unless you plan to give them back.
Why not? This can be a really good idea in some situations.

As long as you give them back in the end. TM did this in Echoes: Renegade with the snipers. They could steal your weapons, but once you killed them, you could get your weapons back.

So I guess I should revise the rule. Don't take away a party's equipment, unless you plan to give them back.

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AmnesiaDileciaThe Empire's New GroveExpress Delivery
Twilight ValleyWitch HuntWhere the Rivers Meet
Posts: 2686 | Registered: Friday, September 8 2006 07:00
Shaper
Member # 3442
Profile Homepage #12
But didn't the Shipwrecked scenarios do this? I don't know - going by what I've heard here...

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And when you want to Live
How do you start?
Where do you go?
Who do you need to know?

Posts: 2864 | Registered: Monday, September 8 2003 07:00
Shaper
Member # 7472
Profile Homepage #13
That was also BoE, and they didn't have superpowered artifacts such as the Zenbu No Yorri, Halberd of Calindor, and so forth. If you took these items away, you would have some very angry parties. I was furious when a sniper stole my Rapier. Fortunately, I got it back. It isn't that you can't take a person's items, it's just that you should give them back eventually.

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Scenarios need reviews! Please rate these scenarios at the CSR after playing them!
AmnesiaDileciaThe Empire's New GroveExpress Delivery
Twilight ValleyWitch HuntWhere the Rivers Meet
Posts: 2686 | Registered: Friday, September 8 2006 07:00
Law Bringer
Member # 4153
Profile Homepage #14
quote:
Originally written by Reggie Kray xx:

But didn't the Shipwrecked scenarios do this? I don't know - going by what I've heard here...
No, Shipwrecked just took the party's sanity away, bit by bit by bit by bit...

And I noticed that my rule was never added to the list. I meant it, too.

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Gamble with Gaea, and she eats your dice.

I hate undead. I really, really, really, really hate undead. With a passion.
Posts: 4130 | Registered: Friday, March 26 2004 08:00
Councilor
Member # 6600
Profile Homepage #15
Originally by Ephesos:

quote:
And I noticed that my rule was never added to the list. I meant it, too.
So, in other words, you're advocating the Undead Run Trilogy, scenarii with tons of superpowered items, three-part dungeons full of lengthy discussions, no new wands or classes of items, the party is required to do idiotic things to advance, terrible spelling and grammar, spots where all the party's equipment is destroyed, Rentar-Ihrno as the main villian, and a prostitute?

Dikiyoba could go on, but Dikiyoba thinks that everyone gets the idea.

Edit: :P

[ Tuesday, October 03, 2006 09:47: Message edited by: Dikiyoba ]
Posts: 4346 | Registered: Friday, December 23 2005 08:00
Shaper
Member # 7472
Profile Homepage #16
quote:
Originally written by Dikiyoba:

So, in other words, you're advocating the Undead Run Trilogy, scenarii with tons of superpowered items, three-part dungeons full of lengthy discussions, no new wands or classes of items, the party is required to do idiotic things to advance, terrible spelling and grammar, spots where all the party's equipment is destroyed, Rentar-Ihrno as the main villian, and a prostitute?
Dikiyoba, the description you just made is very close to a scenario that actually exists. It's called Undead Valley. I put the similarities in italics.

Ephesos, before you claim that any of these rules can be broken, I suggest you take a good, hard look at Undead Valley. It broke many of the above rules, and is one of the most hated scenarios around, apart from Proving Grounds. I'm not saying you can't be creative. I'm just saying that straying too far outside of the rules can lead to disasterous results.

That said, I'm adding a few more:

28. Giving a powerful piece of equipment to the party partway through a scenario, then taking it away at the end is an excellent way to frustrate people.
29. Randomly killing the party is not a good idea.
30. Don't exit the scenario immediately after the party has been killed, unless you want to permenantly wreck that save file.

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Scenarios need reviews! Please rate these scenarios at the CSR after playing them!
AmnesiaDileciaThe Empire's New GroveExpress Delivery
Twilight ValleyWitch HuntWhere the Rivers Meet
Posts: 2686 | Registered: Friday, September 8 2006 07:00
Councilor
Member # 6600
Profile Homepage #17
Originally by Nioca:

quote:
Ephesos, before you claim that any of these rules can be broken, I suggest you take a good, hard look at Undead Valley. It broke many of the above rules, and is one of the most hated scenarios around, apart from Proving Grounds. I'm not saying you can't be creative. I'm just saying that straying too far outside of the rules can lead to disasterous results.
He knows. He beta-tested it. That's why he hates undead.

quote:
Dikiyoba, the description you just made is very close to a scenario that actually exists. It's called Undead Valley. I put the similarities in italics.
Dikiyoba fears that Nioca missed the point of the joke.
Posts: 4346 | Registered: Friday, December 23 2005 08:00
Shaper
Member # 7472
Profile Homepage #18
So that's why Ephesos hates undead so much. I'm suprised he didn't take the same attitude to vahnatai after beta-testing that scenario.

That said, I did miss the joke. I didn't realize that you actually were refering to Undead Valley.

EDIT: Supertypo: a large typo in which someone drops an entire word.

[ Tuesday, October 03, 2006 11:11: Message edited by: Nioca ]

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Scenarios need reviews! Please rate these scenarios at the CSR after playing them!
AmnesiaDileciaThe Empire's New GroveExpress Delivery
Twilight ValleyWitch HuntWhere the Rivers Meet
Posts: 2686 | Registered: Friday, September 8 2006 07:00
Councilor
Member # 6600
Profile Homepage #19
Originally by Nioca:

quote:
That said, I did miss the joke. I didn't realize that you actually were refering to Undead Valley.
I wasn't aiming for Undead Valley when I put the description together. I was just putting a scenario together by doing the opposite of what was on the list. (Well, some of what was on the list. It's a long list.) But since you dislike Undead Valley so much, you put a bunch of things like that on the list. So it ended up sounding like Undead Valley.

Anyway, Dikiyoba believes that humor can help ease grudges, so try reading this.
Posts: 4346 | Registered: Friday, December 23 2005 08:00
Shaper
Member # 7472
Profile Homepage #20
I don't have a grudge against it. It just makes several good examples of what NOT to do in a scenario. That said, I actually gave it a 3.85, and called it a delightful romp.

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Scenarios need reviews! Please rate these scenarios at the CSR after playing them!
AmnesiaDileciaThe Empire's New GroveExpress Delivery
Twilight ValleyWitch HuntWhere the Rivers Meet
Posts: 2686 | Registered: Friday, September 8 2006 07:00
Infiltrator
Member # 5132
Profile Homepage #21
31. Do not attempt to make the largest scenario ever.
32. Avoid monster plagues like the plague.
33. Always have your scenarios beta=tested.
34. Do not try to imitate the Exile/Avernum games.
35. Do not abuse out-of-dialogue-box text.*cough*Bahssikava*cough*

This is too much fun. :P

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"Let us see what the new day brings." - Temas, Areni.

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Posts: 626 | Registered: Monday, October 25 2004 07:00
Law Bringer
Member # 4153
Profile Homepage #22
Right, Nioca... you've missed my point. Half of this list is just "stupid things that people should've never put into scenarios in the first place". And I do mean people should break rules... if it weren't for rule-breaking, there's no way we would've had Mad Ambition work like it did (after all, shouldn't "Don't let split-up parties leave town" have been a "rule"?). We'd lose a lot of quality work if everyone played by these idiotic things you call rules.

They're just freakin' guidelines, so stop being so full of yourself. I'll respect this kind of stuff once you've released something.

And don't talk to me about Undead Valley. Just don't. If you do, I'll probably end up on a Shipwrecked rant.

Breaking convention is not the same as poor design. So stop treating it like that.

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Gamble with Gaea, and she eats your dice.

I hate undead. I really, really, really, really hate undead. With a passion.
Posts: 4130 | Registered: Friday, March 26 2004 08:00
Shaper
Member # 3442
Profile Homepage #23
quote:
Originally written by Ephesos:

...I'll probably end up on a Shipwrecked rant.

Breaking convention is not the same as poor design. So stop treating it like that.

Urm, would now be the wrong time to announce to the community that I am porting Shipwrecked to BoA :P

I think everybody needs to calm down, and take a long hard look at the scenario contest deadline.

And then read The Creator's list of things not to do in a scenario, which actually mean something. Link me, please, somebody. I can't find it.

--------------------
And when you want to Live
How do you start?
Where do you go?
Who do you need to know?

Posts: 2864 | Registered: Monday, September 8 2003 07:00
? Man, ? Amazing
Member # 5755
Profile #24
Originally penned by The Creator and stored at Spidweb's Avernum page
quote:
10 DREAD DISEASES

Below I list some of the many illnesses that plague Blades scenarios.
Keep a vigilant eye out, so you may spot symptoms in your own work
before it's too late.

1: Stupid Party Syndrome

Scenarios affected by this condition force the party to do something
really dumb simply to advance the plot. For example, in Echoes: Assault
you have to attack a friendly fortress to complete the scenario, despite
the fact that this is about the most illogical thing you could do.

2: Scooby Doo's Disease

At the end of the scenario, everything slots together and someone
explains everything that has gone on before, just like at the end of a
Scooby Doo episode. This is usually followed by the big final fight.
Look at Tatterdemalion for an example - this happens at the end of two
of the three paths.

3: Verbal Diarrhea

This very common ailment will cause characters - usually villains - to
spontaneously spew exposition, usually for unreasonably protracted
periods. See Spears.

4: The Plague

Occasionally a scenario will suffer from body image issues and do it's
very best to look exactly like Exile/Avernum 3. A very common symptom is
monster plagues. See Wreck of the Slug.

5: Monty Haul Gut

Simply put, this comes from way too much rich food, weapons, gems, etc.
See nearly anything by Brave Sir Robin.

6: Delusions of Grandeur

If you're making a scenario with the unregistered version and think it's
so good that Spiderweb will give you a free registration for it and it
might even win the contest, because it's really original and has custom
monsters, and you have a big final showdown with Rentar-Inhro... you are
already a victim.

7: Knocker's Migrane

Players get severe headaches from repeatedly banging their heads against
walls looking for secret passages. Spare them the pain - keep all your
doors visible. Alternatively, play Quintessence and get a dose of your
own medicine.

8: Weapon Envy

Some designers just can't get it into their heads that size isn't
everything. They automatically assume that bigger is always better,
especially in relation to fights and weapons. Doom Moon II is a product
of such thinking.

9: Insanity

Pure and simple. If there is an insane character anywhere in your
scenario, amputate him. It would have helped The Draining.

10: Linda's Condition

If you are ever, ever tempted to insert a character controlled by
demons, or who turns out to be a demon, or who has a fascination with
demons, go lie down till the feeling passes. See (suprise, suprise) the
Demon Island scenarios.

"Deceased" is the future tense of "Diseased". Just thought you should
know that.

Please keep in mind that you are free to break any and all of these
rules once you know why they exist.




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quote:
Originally written by Kelandon:

Well, I'm at least pretty sure that Salmon is losing.


Posts: 4114 | Registered: Monday, April 25 2005 07:00

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