Is Plot Important?
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Warrior
Member # 3610
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written Wednesday, January 5 2005 14:09
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To quote Thuryl: "Does anybody play scenarios for plot anymore?" Or do you "play to be impressed by [the] fancy technical trickery..."? Why? Posts: 129 | Registered: Tuesday, October 28 2003 08:00 |
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Infiltrator
Member # 148
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written Wednesday, January 5 2005 14:30
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No plot, no play. -------------------- My ego is bigger than yours. Posts: 480 | Registered: Thursday, October 11 2001 07:00 |
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Agent
Member # 2210
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written Wednesday, January 5 2005 14:43
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I think continuity and flow in a sense is more important than plot in computer roleplaying games. The ability to go from section to section in the game without losing your sense of place or ideas can be more important than plot. ( Which is most of the time sophomoric at best in all but the best games). You are after all in an interactive movie which is more action than thought. In a very good roleplaying game-- the continuity element has multiple plots which are woven together. For example there might be a series of three simple threaded outcomes. It is the ability make the threads flow seemlessly which is hard for a designer. That is why there is an excessive use of bells and whistles. When the scenario flow breaks down is most often when the bells and whistles appear. Just my thoughts. -------------------- Wasting your time and mine looking for a good laugh. Star Bright, Star Light, Oh I Wish I May, I Wish Might, Wish For One Star Tonight. Posts: 1084 | Registered: Thursday, November 7 2002 08:00 |
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...b10010b...
Member # 869
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written Wednesday, January 5 2005 16:13
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Plot is important to designers because it's usually the main thing that motivates them enough to finish their scenarios; plot is important to players because it provides a sense of direction (without a plot of some sort, it's pretty hard to give players an idea of where they can or should go next). Beyond that, creating a plot that's going to do anything emotionally for a significant proportion of players is a difficult task, and not an essential one. Plenty of people still play roguelikes, after all. -------------------- The Empire Always Loses: This Time For Sure! Posts: 9973 | Registered: Saturday, March 30 2002 08:00 |
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Shock Trooper
Member # 3605
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written Thursday, January 6 2005 08:17
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Plot is the master in my opinion. I think it says something that people still play and make Exile scenarios, when their "technical trickery" has been surpassed by BOA. Having said that, I wouldn't touch Exile with a bargepole. I mean, 2D, What the hell is up with that!??! -------------------- "But The Damage is Irreversible" Posts: 358 | Registered: Monday, October 27 2003 08:00 |
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BoE Posse
Member # 112
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written Thursday, January 6 2005 23:27
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Plot is as important as you make it. It's the be-all, end-all of Johnny Favourite, for example. It's a minor ingredient in Adventurer's Club 2. I don't think that every scenario needs to be plot-heavy to be good. I just think every scenario needs to be good in it's own way. There's room for a wide variety of scenarios in Blades. That said, I think the best scenarios will always feature a good story as an important ingredient. -------------------- Rate my scenarios! Areni Revenge To Live in Fear Deadly Goblins Ugantan Nightmare Isle of Boredom Posts: 1423 | Registered: Sunday, October 7 2001 07:00 |
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Shock Trooper
Member # 5181
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written Tuesday, January 11 2005 14:42
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quote:Avernum is 2D. Posts: 262 | Registered: Thursday, November 11 2004 08:00 |
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Shock Trooper
Member # 3605
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written Wednesday, January 12 2005 08:38
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At least it pretends to be 3D. Exile has no shame. -------------------- "But The Damage is Irreversible" Posts: 358 | Registered: Monday, October 27 2003 08:00 |
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Infiltrator
Member # 4256
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written Wednesday, January 12 2005 09:58
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It has nothing to be ashamed of :P -------------------- "Let's just say that if complete and utter chaos was lightning, he'd be the sort to stand on a hilltop in a thunderstorm wearing wet copper armour and shouting 'All gods are false'." Posts: 564 | Registered: Wednesday, April 14 2004 07:00 |
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Mongolian Barbeque
Member # 1528
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written Wednesday, January 12 2005 11:29
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Plot is not only very important in a scenario, it is vital. Which is why I found Canopy a mediocre scenario despite its very impressive scripting, excellent cutscenes, and enormously fun combat situations. The story made very little sense, and after the second nonsensical plottwist infodump I rather lost patience and just determinedly plowed through the rest of it. Posts: 907 | Registered: Monday, July 15 2002 07:00 |
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Warrior
Member # 4202
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written Wednesday, January 12 2005 12:28
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quote:What you are giving an example of here is bad plot. Bad plot, IMO, is usually worse than no plot, which is still bad. A scenario with mediocre but decent plot can manage well enough as a scenario of fun gameplay (as opposed to story). P.S. If you like gameplay and don't mind a simple or clichéd story, try Battle for Wesnoth. It's an excellent, free TBS (turn-based strategy) game with an experience component, but you need to break out of your RPG habits and get many levelled units rather than focusing on a few. Most units only have up to level 3, and experience is wasted on the level 3's, but each level of a unit is unique. For example, when an Elvish Fighter levels up, you choose whether it becomes an Elvish Hero (which can then become an Elvish Champion), or an Elvish Captain (which can then become an Elvish Marshal). Its version is officially 0.8.8 at present, but it's much better than many games are at 1.0. -------------------- Creator of the 3D Blades of Avernum Editor for Mac. Get it at Ingenious Isaac's Illusion, my web page. Better yet, get Battle for Wesnoth, a wonderful free TBS game. Posts: 192 | Registered: Sunday, April 4 2004 08:00 |
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BANNED
Member # 4
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written Wednesday, January 12 2005 12:31
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Ya know, you'd think by now that people telling me to stop trying to sound smart would have stopped saying those things by now, since it's abundantly clear that the time I spend pouring over my metaphors clearly ain't interpreted as intelligence by anyone anymore. -------------------- * Posts: 6936 | Registered: Tuesday, September 18 2001 07:00 |
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Warrior
Member # 5389
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written Wednesday, January 12 2005 12:57
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Always have a plot. Unless massive, random destruction IS the plot. -------------------- Reports of my demise are extremely accurate. And I AM the clone Posts: 102 | Registered: Wednesday, January 12 2005 08:00 |
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Warrior
Member # 2637
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written Wednesday, January 12 2005 14:22
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I would have to say a plot is important to any scenario as it adds the flavor to the map and makes it worth playing. Any map with a plot, regardless good or bad, would probably be better than a scenario where you are required to go from town to town, butchering everything you see. I mean, if I were interested in that, I could make a dozen of them right now, but the fact is nothing beats a scenario with a plot. Besides, wouldn't you say it would be preferable to save a town from a rebellion than do a billion dungeon romps? (okay, not the best comparison, but you get the point) Posts: 53 | Registered: Thursday, February 13 2003 08:00 |
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...b10010b...
Member # 869
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written Wednesday, January 12 2005 16:55
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The reason I don't like the "plot above all" attitude is that I feel it's destructive to other aspects of the scenario. Many people who hold plot as vital seem to also hold the opinion that combat can't possibly be the major source of fun in a scenario, because they think combat is inevitably boring and repetitive, because they haven't really made the effort to see how it can be made interesting, because of course plot is more important. Then, when a scenario like Canopy that does have good combat comes along, these people complain because it's too hard, because they're not used to combat that actually requires a different strategy to the repetitive Avernumish stuff they're used to slogging through. Or, worse still, they complain because they're so used to the idea of watching for the plot and seeing everything else as secondary that they don't really appreciate good combat. Seriously, people. Why are you here? If you want plot, go read a novel. -------------------- The Empire Always Loses: This Time For Sure! Posts: 9973 | Registered: Saturday, March 30 2002 08:00 |
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BANNED
Member # 4
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written Wednesday, January 12 2005 19:12
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Thuryl has a point. Scenarios can stress one over the other, but scenarios have both gameplay and plot elements. These two require the other, or else you have a book/movie or a strategy game. -------------------- * Posts: 6936 | Registered: Tuesday, September 18 2001 07:00 |
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Shock Trooper
Member # 3605
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written Thursday, January 13 2005 00:10
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I see the scenario as a living thing. The plot is the heart, and however intresting its combat or scripting, it cant move without a plot. [ Thursday, January 13, 2005 00:11: Message edited by: Angry Ogre ] -------------------- "But The Damage is Irreversible" Posts: 358 | Registered: Monday, October 27 2003 08:00 |
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Law Bringer
Member # 2984
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written Thursday, January 13 2005 03:05
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Then of course, it can't live without a liver or a kidney either (which should probably be technical playability, spelling of text etc., and gameplay). All necessary. ;) -------------------- Encyclopaedia • Archives • Members • RSS [Topic / Forum] • Blog • Polaris • NaNoWriMo Look on my works, ye mighty, and despair. I have a love of woodwind instruments. Posts: 8752 | Registered: Wednesday, May 14 2003 07:00 |