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AuthorTopic: Bipolar
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Hey guys,

In psychology the other day, Bipolar disorders were briefly mentioned (just as an abnormality). Me being me, I was curious and did some research...

http://www.nhsdirect.nhs.uk/articles/article.aspx?articleID=47&PrintPage=1
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bipolar_disorder#Diagnosis

What I found was rather surprising. For a disorder which affects 1% of the population, it's remarkably unknown- I'm in Sixth Form now, and only really heard about it because I'm taking Psychology.

What I'm really trying to get at here, is how to tell if someone has this, if you need to be careful around them etc (I'd feel very bad if something I inadvertently said caused someone to have an "episode"), and so on. Everyone in their life will have met someone with this disorder, as I said- it's very common; so why don't we know about it? What's it like being friends with someone with Bipolar, what's it like working with them- basically what is it like having relationships with them (any form of relationship)?

I'm sure one of you will know a bit more about this than I do, and if you do- well I'd love to learn more about it (I'm still curious to know about this). Why isn't it talked about? Is it another example of the stigma upon mental disorders?

I hope I don't upset anyone with this post, and I'm sorry if I do (don't feel obligated to reply in the slightest if you don't feel comfortable doing so).

- Archmagus Micael

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Posts: 1370 | Registered: Thursday, June 10 2004 07:00
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I am NOT in that 1% I TELL YOU! NOOOOO!!!

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quote:
Originally written by Jeran Korak:

I am NOT in that 1% I TELL YOU! NOOOOO!!!
:rolleyes:
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:P

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Posts: 732 | Registered: Saturday, June 24 2006 07:00
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I didn't think that it was all that obscure; I learned about it in middle school, but then, it might be a cultural thing. SF is a different (and more open) place from pretty much anywhere else.

I very briefly had a relationship with a girl who was mildly bipolar (though it wouldn't be diagnosed in her for another few years). Quite frankly, I never knew or even suspected, because she didn't have any sort of serious episode while we were close (which was for several months). Apparently it didn't get really bad until some time later, partly (I think) due to the stress of school, since intense stress — as it does everything else — exacerbates it.

You can't tell if someone has it unless he or she tells you or you actually see an episode (which, from what I understand, can be terrifying). But the good news is that you don't need to know, because you don't have to "be careful around them" or anything like that, except to the extent that you have to be reasonably sensitive around anyone, especially anyone who may have a mental illness. It's not unlike being around someone who has standard-issue clinical depression in how you should respond.

It's been a while since I've read about it, though, so I may be forgetting something important or a little off somewhere.

[ Thursday, December 20, 2007 10:16: Message edited by: Kelandon ]

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Posts: 7968 | Registered: Saturday, February 28 2004 08:00
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I'm bipolar and I can tell you I have a happy relationship with my girlfriend and a few friends. Of course they also are used to me since we've all known each other since we were kids so that might affect that a little.

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Posts: 157 | Registered: Saturday, August 25 2007 07:00
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That's funny. My experience is that least in the psych world, Bipolar is all the rage for the last several years. One of my very best friends was diagnosed with it (called Manic-Depression back then) back in his twenties. He was given lithium.

Bipolar disorder is believed to affect about four percent of the U.S. population. That's 12 million people. You probably know someone with this disorder. One third of people with Bipolar who seek clinical treatment are initially misdiagnosed as having Major Depressive Disorder. Twenty percent of those who are untreated or undertreated will attempt suicide.

49% are undiagnosed. 31% are misdiagnosed. 20% are correctly diagnosed. Bipolar I is symptomatic about one half of your life. People with Bipolar Disorder are twice as likely to attempt suicide than people with unipolar disorders (depression, etc.) They are much more likely to complete it.

Those are the kind of statistics that I've seen bandied about lately. Bipolar Disorder became a very popular diagnosis in America starting about five years ago. It is very much the disorder du juor.

I conducted a Bipolar group therapy group for one year. What you see is that sometimes they are very up (manic), and you can't hardly shut them up, and more often, they report feeling depressed and apathetic. Depressive periods typically last much longer than the manic periods. People can do very extreme things when manic - go on spending or sexual sprees, gamble, think they are immortal.

The 1993 movie with Richard Gere, "Mr. Jones," depicted a man with Bipolar disorder (then still called Manic-Depressive Disorder.)

People in manic state could be a bit risky to be around, but it depends on co-occuring disorders in particular (psychosis, etc.) Mostly, they are a risk to themselves and their bank account.

Most people will experience someone with Bipolar as depressive, less often as having mood swings, and occasionally or never as manic. Bipolar II does not exhibit manic symptoms at all. One wavers between blah/normal/hypomania and severely depressed when having Bipolar II. Most people I know have Bipolar I. They were perfectly lovely, and often delightful people. Having this disorder requires strategizing your life to keep yourself in check, either in getting depressed and listless, and especially in becoming manic. You need the help and feedback of others to navigate it. Don't do it alone. People loved being in group therapy together, and found it a great source of support and ideas for strategizing.

Often, unless you know someone fairly well, you might never know they are Bipolar...and neither may they.

As in any health issue in life, I see sleep, diet, and exercise as the greatest and simplest things one can do to minimize, control, or perhaps even alleviate conditions like Bipolar. I'm not a fan of meds, but most people with Bipolar, once diagnosed, will go on meds with some success and balancing to be able to function, and most importantly, to keep manic episodes from occuring.

-S-

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Posts: 2009 | Registered: Monday, September 12 2005 07:00
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I think you know very much about bipolar epople you actually have to know someone who is bipolar, and get to know them individually. Otherwords I disagree with a lot of the things the Pharmaceutical Sales Rep. said.

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Posts: 157 | Registered: Saturday, August 25 2007 07:00
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The pharmaceutical rep gave the most recent statistics. I think you are saying you disagree with me. What on, may I ask?

I will always be one to argue that everyone's experience in life in anything is unique. I listed information based on the greater collective opinion on the matter. I personally don't believe in the DSM-IV system of diagnosis and categorization of people. Lots of people don't fit into the box and don't appreciate being put into one or given a label. Labels are too often stigmatizing. Labels are words and concepts that have power. I have little interest in them. There is a relatively common experience people have we have come to call "Bipolar.' I think it is really a number of different things.

-S-

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Posts: 2009 | Registered: Monday, September 12 2005 07:00
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What, Synergy, do you posit to be the basis of mental illness? I'm curious, if the DSM-IV's qualifications are so awful.

I'm perfectly aware about the various imbroglios with it, and I know that homosexuality used to be on there, but the scientific consensus changes and scientists are as human as anyone else. But I don't know of any coherent model in opposition to neurochemistry.
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Honestly, I'd agree in part with Synergy, in that managing your life choices (sleep, diet, etc) is probably the most effective thing you can do for just about any illness, long-term. It probably won't cure most things, but it'll keep the symptoms from being made worse. Meds are supposed to help as well, of course.

Generally, I find myself skeptical of medications for mental disorders, just because I don't like the idea of messing with brain chemistry. But if it came right down to it (i.e. I had something), and I knew that there was some decent science backing it up, I'd likely elect to take the meds.

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Which layer of reality do you want me to comment upon? We see, analyze, dissect, and document the natural, physical realm of seeming cause and effect. That has become the level of experience that least interests me at this point. i don't see it as primary cause, merely the mechanics of the outplay. In the natural, I don't pretend to know much about the many possible mechanics of how brain disorder occurs. I also don't pretend to know where to draw a line between physical/biological causes of illness and mental/emotional ones...or if it even exists. Everything eventually clocks in on the observable physical plane of detectability. Pegging ultimate first cause is a big chicken and the egg hunt. On the natural level of the universe.

I'm mostly just interested in what helps people have a different experience in the context of whatever it is they are experiecing that they don't want to be experiencing.

The DSM-IV is not unuseful, and I don't call it awful. I just find it rather arbitrary in construct, limiting in perception of a client...and not personally very useful. I think the diagnoses are approximations of clustered syndromes which may or may not be "one thing" in reality. In reality, I see every person's "disease" as unique to them, and having some commonality with others. I am not choosing to work with the chronically mentally ill at this time, but it wouldn't make much difference in my modality either way. Understanding "why"/"where did it come from" in therapy work is not actually very relevant to getting at what can change the experience/make it better. Insight can be its own dead end.

Bipolar Disorder is under some controversy over whether it is truly "one thing" or describing a number of similar syndromes. It's hard to know. Maybe it's not that important. All anyone cares about, is how can I deal with it/get better? And things that I see that help people get better don't require any understanding, per se, of what has caused them their present distress. In fact, what we focus upon, fear, or resist, persists.

I see medications as getting clunkily and inefficiently at brain chemistry, which can be more efficiently altered through wholly other means. It's like using a sledge hammer where a pair of tweezers would more elegantly applied.

To say I am terribly wrong exposes your conceit that you think you can know for absolute certainty that you are right, rather than you merely believe you are right. Medications can be helpful, depending on your goals. I just don't see them as ultimately ideal or satisfactory a solution. Every single client on meds I have worked with complains about numerous undesirable side-effects of their meds. Every one. That's not good enough for my vision of what we are capable of. It also distracts us from our own creative power, and hands it to something outside us, which I see as a red herring, ultimately.

Antibiotics aren't radioactive poison. They just kill all the friendly, helpful flora in your digestive tract, along with the other bacteria they are aimed at. Again, a sledge hammer approach, where finesse might be more keenly applied.

-S-

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Posts: 2009 | Registered: Monday, September 12 2005 07:00
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quote:
Originally written by Ephesos:

Honestly, I'd agree in part with Synergy, in that managing your life choices (sleep, diet, etc) is probably the most effective thing you can do for just about any illness, long-term. It probably won't cure most things, but it'll keep the symptoms from being made worse.
Sleep is important, yes - but it's something that most people have little way of managing. The modern American work-based lifestyle makes sure of that; 'eight hours for work, eight hours for sleep, eight hours for what you will' has in many ways gone out the window, unless 'what you will' happens to involve a grueling commute, overtime, and work from home.

Diet is far less important. In reality, the problem with the American diet is excess rather than deficiency. If we were all firemen, yes, we'd have an unbalanced diet - but as it stands it's a situation closer to having 200% more fat than we need and only 20-50% more protein. Doing away with the binge-purge cycle would help a lot, but on the balance we're getting everything we need to fight infection.

It's a common misimpression that there is anything productive to be gained from strengthening the body's 'natural defenses'. In reality, those natural defenses were designed by evolution - and the hard necessities of evolution mean that if those defenses are useful at all, you'd better damned well hope they're so redundant that it'd take a physiological crisis for them to be underpowered.

In fact, it's worth pointing out that one of the most consistent trends within social groups with a hypertrophied regard for 'health' in the diet-nutrition-exercise sense is a profound increase in allergies. Allergies occur when the immune system is working when it shouldn't be, and are more or less ubiquitous in modern society.
quote:

Meds are supposed to help as well, of course.

And they do. Double-blind trials tend to prove that; if you want to throw those out, you're gonna have to reject a lot of practical day-to-day science. Which most people 'skeptical' of medication as a primary method for dealing with disease would never dream of.

quote:
Generally, I find myself skeptical of medications for mental disorders, just because I don't like the idea of messing with brain chemistry. But if it came right down to it (i.e. I had something), and I knew that there was some decent science backing it up, I'd likely elect to take the meds.
Look up borderline personality disorder at some point. Unfortunately, it's this attitude as a society that has made it the problem it is; it's a severe neurochemical disorder which involves obscenely abusive, selfish, and manipulative behavior -- and one of the defining characteristics is the reluctance of therpaists to deal with it.

There's little to nothing productive to gain from counseling with borderline patients unless it's accompanied by aggressive medication. (Sam, my fiancee, had to deal with ten years of 'group therapy' with her borderline mother - which, because of the adeptness of manipulation associated with BPD, involved her mother and her therapist haranguing her for an hour about how her horrible, lazy behavior was ruining her mother's life.) And because as a society we're convinced aggressive medication means you're mentally weak or in some other fundamental way inferior, borderline sufferers will typically either reject medication or stop taking it. If you believe 'nothing's wrong with me', and you've been trained to treat medication as part and parcel of a personal failure, of course you're not gonna take any.

Mental health is basically the same as physical health. In many ways this is a generational issue - it's something that makes even people my parents' age (that is, early 40s) uncomfortable on some level. But we can't decide to reject neurochemical medication because of our cultural fetishes; it works as well as antibiotics or analgesics and for exactly the same reasons. It's like the bit from Alpha Centauri: we're throwing out a vital tool because it reminds us uncomfortably of our own mortality, and in so doing have needlessly crippled ourselves.
Posts: 794 | Registered: Tuesday, October 11 2005 07:00
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My uncle (mum's brother) and sister are both bipolar; mum is bipolar/schizo-effective, and other sister is epileptic, and I seem to have avoided it altogether. Both sisters were diagnosed with their illnesses before their 18th birthday. It seems to be an overabundance of electrical activity in the brain that is a peculiarity in my family, that causes it. It manifests in me with an interesting brand of hyperactivity where I talk, think and act entirely too fast for my own good lol (it isn't ADD or ADHD, we checked!)

Uncle is on Lithium (and his shrink was extremely excited about this because he was prescribed Lithium not long after it was released on the public market), and mum and sisters are all on epilim, so we think that there is a common element of all the illnesses that this one medication can keep under control (probably the too-much-brain-electricity thing).

[ Thursday, December 20, 2007 12:27: Message edited by: Lucheiah ]

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Borderline clients typically spent an entire childhood getting that way. It isn't going to undo itself with a bit of therapy, especially since some of the core borderline issues are about trust, stability, consistency, reliability and boundaries. These are relationship issues which take time, a lot of time, to establish. If a borderline client has never had a positive, lasting experience relationally, it is going to take a different experience over time, quite a bit of it, for real change to be detectable. But it is quite possible. We just aren't a patient society, we pathologize the sick all too often, and we don't have the dedication to what it actually takes to help such people recover from what is typically, a pretty messed up childhood of modeled relational behavior.

One of my psych professors had the privilege early in his career of working with borderline clients for quite a few years continually, which is sadly all too rare in the mental health field. He said it was around year seven out of the eight he worked with them, that he finally saw a real change and improvement in the patients. It took that many years of a reliable relationship with trust and boundaries in their life to finally start shifting significantly in their way of being.

It's not complicated. It just takes time and dedication. Who's going to do it?

-S-

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Posts: 2009 | Registered: Monday, September 12 2005 07:00
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Maaaan. I started reading the Wikipedia entry and then the first 5 or 6 posts in here and I started feeling nauseous (did I spell that right?) and started shaking. Reading things about diseases and disorders like this really creep me out for some reason. I feel I am going to have nightmares for some reason now. :(

EDIT: Oh my god. I am starting to feel sick now! :(

[ Thursday, December 20, 2007 19:10: Message edited by: Janitorial Closet ]

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Posts: 31 | Registered: Wednesday, December 12 2007 08:00
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Well it's a good things you don't have any of these diseases hunh?

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quote:
Originally written by Starman1985:

Well it's a good things you don't have any of these diseases hunh?
Totally true. :D
Well atleast this got my mind off if the topic. I have now officially got my mind off of the topic. I have now made a resolution that I will NOT read any more of this topic. :D Well not really. I will probably end up reading it again.

Well that strange panic attack was..well...strange.
I had to keep myself from screaming. And embarrassing myself in front of my dad and brother. :eek: Holy crud that was strange.

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Geez. I am still shaking from that thread on Bipolar Disorder. GOD!
Posts: 31 | Registered: Wednesday, December 12 2007 08:00
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Synergy: From what I've heard, borderline patients are literally impossible to deal with without extreme dedication on the patient's behalf. That is, either you need the power of life and death over them (e.g. they've been committed and don't have much to say about it) or they consider healing their condition Priority #1.

I've heard about people in conventional therapy for BPD for years who come out of it as if they've never been in it a day. BPD is characterized by the part of the brain where normal human relationships go being largely defined by an incredibly adaptive shapeshifting void, kind of the way all people would behave if we were how Objectivists believe we are.

Either you medicate the Christ out of them or any 'progress' you make with them is, 99 times out of 100, going to be an illusion fostered - mostly consciously! - by them. Doesn't matter if it takes them a week or a decade, once they've got you convinced they're sane it's pretty much back to square one.

It's really kind of depressing, because both Sam's mother (note: we're not on speaking terms) and my grandmother (who I wish wasn't on speaking terms with us) have it. It's a really nasty thing and not only screws up the sufferers but everyone around them. My father is possibly the state's best surgeon in his field and has successfully raised a difficult family, but when pushed beyond his limits he has a temper tantrum like a child. This is a common characteristic of the children of BPD mothers, unfortunately.

[ Thursday, December 20, 2007 23:48: Message edited by: Najosz Thjsza Kjras ]
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Of course, the problem with Meds is that the human body, being as adaptable as it is, builds up an immunity to it, so the prescribed dose needs to be increased and increased and increased - and there is a limit to how much manufactured serotonin or whatever you can put into a person. What happens when someone becomes immune to the maximum (safe) dosage of a drug?

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Well, there's a major question to that. Some drugs actually don't have much tolerance associated with them, or in other cases the harmful dose is so far above the effective dose that tolerance is more inconvenient than anything else. Fans of pot can observe that for themselves: while there is definitely a tolerance at work with marijuana, so far as the reliable clinical data seem to indicate it'd take drinking a gallon of THC syrup with every meal to start physically hurting yourself - and that's a level that it'd take centuries of regular use to build up to.

Basically, 'OK, the drug works, now how do we work it into a treatment regimen?' is the major question that comes after the clinical trials, and usually requires... usage, more clinical trials, and sometimes, unfortunately, some serious suffering. If you're really lucky, you'll have inherited data from someone amoral - there are various fields where the levels of whatever it is that start killing off humans are well-established by experimental data, the largest cache of which having been that collected in Nazi Germany, but certainly irresponsible scientists and companies add new pages on a daily basis to the depressingly close libraries of human knowledge and human depravity.

[ Friday, December 21, 2007 01:08: Message edited by: Najosz Thjsza Kjras ]
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Interesting. I only ask because my sister, E, was on a medication that she developed a high tolerance to after about 18 months (this was before my other sister, S, was diagnosed with epilepsy and they both went on to epilim). It was pretty bad for a few months while she was coming down off this drug so she could safely go on to the epilim.

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Sometimes it's feasible to alternate medications, although unfortunately there are cases where only one thing will actually get the job done, but the job is gonna have to get done so often that eventually it'll stop working. And there's also the unfortunate biological fact that if a problem is congenital, treatment will ultimately at least somewhat become a 'crutch' - that is, without an actual cure (or when the cure is unwanted or worse than the disease), the effects often get stronger and stronger in response to the treatment. I had a long period of my life in which my asthma was just getting worse and worse and I was on enough albuterol to kill a small horse. Not fun.

At that point, it becomes a personal question - namely, is it more important to be OK now or to be OK later? This varies from person to person, and is largely your own to make.

Ideally, the role of the medical professional will become just that - enabling people to make choices about their physical and, ultimately, mental condition; taking those choices away from the machinations of cellular biology and putting them in the patient's hands.

One final note: I'd like to quickly note that as far as creativity goes, as someone who's had to choose between that and happiness, I'll go with happiness anytime. As bothersome as it might sound, think about it: at least if you're happy you're not gonna be spending all day making ostensible art about how miserable you are, and then crying about it.
Posts: 794 | Registered: Tuesday, October 11 2005 07:00
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I tend to agree with Alec's claim that mainstream medicine actually thinks quite widely, and rejects things on solid empirical evidence rather than from purblind prejudice. And it is obvious that modern medicine can do wonderful things.

But it doesn't hurt, or even really weaken that case, to admit that medical science is still in its early infancy. We really know very little about how human biochemistry works. And we know almost nothing at all about how neurochemistry works to produce psychological phenomena. We're about as far from having a really scientific psychiatry as those ancient Greeks and Chinese, with their static-charged amber and hunks of magnetized iron, were from building laptop computers.

Or maybe further; who knows? I'm optimistic that the pace of scientific research has accelerated so much since then, that significant progress may come over decades rather than centuries. But there is clearly a long way to go yet.

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Alec, if you believe that you are the sum of your physiology and biochemistry as the cause of you and your experience, then surely that will be your experience. As you believe, so shall it be done unto you. I happen to believe, and increasingly experience, a different level of cause and effect in the universe and in the body. You are describing and dissecting what I see as the end result, not the first cause. I don't see myself as the recipient or victim of what my body chemistry or my genes dictate. I see myself as the creator and cause of what ultimately manifests in my physicality. I have no need for you to believe or remotely consider the possibility of this level of reality in the universe. Enjoy your truth and what you create for yourself out of it. Because that is precisely what I believe each of us is doing all the time.

I honor your focus on the remarkable biochemistry of the body and the amazing things we have learned about it and how to alter it. I view it more as the effect, not the cause now. I am pursuing getting at the cause of what ultimately manifests in our material being. I don't care about what is "right" or "wrong." I care only about what works. I also appreciate hearing more about your family experience. I know you a bit better for it, which I always enjoy with anyone.

I have nearly zero interest in discussing drugs or biochemistry, and it is entirely not my area of expertise, and as I stated, but it is of course fine for you dig into it all you like, as I do with what excites me. My bottom line: I see that we are what we believe. We create and continually recreate ourselves and our experience out of our thought, word, and deed. It is one whole level of belief that life and our bodies and our experiences are things that happen to us, that others do to us, that God does to us. It is another level of experience to see and know yourself as the creator of your own experience, and equally able to create a new one. But, related to what is seen in the placebo effect, you have to truly believe this to begin to have any conscious mastery of it.

It's quite irrelevant what anyone else thinks of this or what I think of this. I am every day losing my feeling that anyone else needs to get what has become my truth, or that anyone is any absolute peril about being "right" or "wrong" about anything in the universe. But this all gets into my plain conviction that everything is first and foremost spiritual in us. I don't recall you ever mentioning whether you believe even remotely in a spiritual aspect to life, but I haven't been able to detect it from your deep commitment to the material realm and its apparent cause and effect.

We have different belief systems on ultimate cause and effect in life, it would appear. Do you have a problem with that? Do you need me to believe a certain way for me to be okay? Am I a threat in your universe if you believe I am "wrong" — because you are not in mine. I don't believe in actual peril in the universe. There is nothing absolute at risk. We have experiences we have on one level created. Even pain and suffering is not absolute reality. Suffering is caused by how we choose to interpret an experience. There are those we have witnessed who have even transcended tremendous physical pain for having understood and mastered this principle.

Please don't misunderstand me in the context of these statements. In the illusion, the game, the matrix we have lost ourselves within to have an experience here, peril, fear and suffering seem fantastically real. Love does what is sensed to be appropriate in the situation and context on hand. I feel great compassion for the suffering we are experiencing. I see ways in which we can have a different experience, and remember who we are and what we are doing and what we are capable of. That is what I am doing with my life. It's okay if you see no worth or validity in what I am doing or being. Of course, you don't even have any experience of hearing my voice, seeing my eye, being in my presence, or knowing what it is that I actually do with myself, so I don't know by what basis you would seek to render a verdict on my value on this planet. And I will never presume to render one upon you. Truth is, we are all magnificent and sublime beyond our recognition, and there is no any one of us who is better than any other.

I love being here. I love the drama we have created. I love the amazing illusion of the physical universe, including the biochemistry we see playing out in our bodies as a result of what we are creating for ourselves...not only individually, usually not consciously, and much of it collectively. On that level, if we want a different experience, including the ones involving what we call disease, we need to start collectively shifting the reality we are creating for ourselves. No one is doing it to us. We are all doing it to ourselves. Until we take responsibility for our creation, we will scarcely truly entertain or believe in what it will take to create something different.

Regarding borderline PD...yes, all I know and have experienced of it is that it is incredibly pervasive and difficult to even want to be around to "help." A marvelous challenge indeed. I have a certain particular fascination with this syndrome. I may yet or later in life take on that challenge in particular again. I dream dreams. I believe in being able to do what is undoable. I think we're making this all up, and we can make up something new the moment we truly start doing it.

Belief is key. It is everything. You are what you believe you are. Belief is more than a cognitive conviction about supposed "facts." It is a deep alignment of your thinking, and your feeling. Your subconscious can have contrary programming to what you consciously believe about yourself. One needs to begin aligning all levels of your being to tap consciously into your (re)creative capacity. But either way, we are doing it every moment, no matter what we believe about it. We can live someone else's programming and agenda for us, or take the reins and start creating our own and ourselves.

Ultimately, I don't even see mental "disease" as something that happens to us. I see it as something we create for our own experience in the game we are choosing to play by being here. I cannot judge the experience of another as "good" or "evil" in any absolute sense. But it is all of infinite value and purpose to us.

Woo woo. You're entirely right. The vision and experience I am beginning to truly have of life and being makes me suck in my breath and say, "Wow!" "Woo!" and "Whoa!" quite a lot. Shouldn't life be such an enticing adventure? Enjoy the drama. It's your own creation, but you are in no absolute peril. Remember that now, if you can, or remember it later. Your soul came here already knowing it all. Every experience is ultimately honorable. Every person is entirely worthy. Every belief has its place and use.

Woo hoo. You're awesome. I'm enjoying you now, Alec. How about that? For all my silly self-indulgence, using this unlikely forum of a humble fantasy role play gaming community to exercise and hone my thoughts and beliefs and wonderings...and most importantly, my choice how to be in the world, well, it's really still rewarding, though often in a way different from what I might think I want out of it in the moment.

-S-

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Posts: 2009 | Registered: Monday, September 12 2005 07:00
Infiltrator
Member # 7298
Profile #24
quote:
Originally written by Student of Trinity:

I tend to agree with Alec's claim that mainstream medicine actually thinks quite widely, and rejects things on solid empirical evidence rather than from purblind prejudice. And it is obvious that modern medicine can do wonderful things.

But it doesn't hurt, or even really weaken that case, to admit that medical science is still in its early infancy. We really know very little about how human biochemistry works. And we know almost nothing at all about how neurochemistry works to produce psychological phenomena. We're about as far from having a really scientific psychiatry as those ancient Greeks and Chinese, with their static-charged amber and hunks of magnetized iron, were from building laptop computers.

Or maybe further; who knows? I'm optimistic that the pace of scientific research has accelerated so much since then, that significant progress may come over decades rather than centuries. But there is clearly a long way to go yet.

Have you taken a look at the field of Nano systems engineering? Its just starting to get off the ground and once it had been applied to Biomed engineering their is no telling were we can go.
Here is a video I can find off hand Nano technology when applied to medicine
I'll admit a lot of it is conceptual but its some pretty neat stuff.

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A rock has weight whether you admit it or not
Posts: 479 | Registered: Wednesday, July 12 2006 07:00

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