The War on Christmas

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AuthorTopic: The War on Christmas
Infiltrator
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Of course, back in Santa's day, being plesantly plump was an asset. Today stick thin people starve themselves so they're not 'fat' by culture's standards.

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Posts: 563 | Registered: Tuesday, July 27 2004 07:00
Warrior
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It could even be argued that Santa is a good role model because he's not promoting anorexia/bulima. He's a big boy, and he's happy - kids see that and go "wow, you don't have to be stick thin to be happy..."

Of course the flip side is the promotion of obesity, so it really boils down to the parents making sure their kids are healthy in terms of mindset and eating habits.

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Third generation geek and heathen!
Posts: 93 | Registered: Tuesday, December 11 2007 08:00
Agent
Member # 1934
Profile Homepage #27
quote:
Originally written by Jewelz:

Today stick thin people starve themselves so they're not 'fat' by culture's standards.
Augh! How many people have ever looked at pants in the junior clothes department? There's no freaking way anyone could fit in most of those clothes.

Society and it's definition of "beautiful" is sick.

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Posts: 1169 | Registered: Monday, September 23 2002 07:00
Skip to My Lou
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Maybe we should change Santa's image to that of a fit, jolly man who keeps in shape by jogging from house to house, scaling it and climbing down the chimney to enjoy a snack a fresh fruit.

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Posts: 1629 | Registered: Wednesday, October 3 2001 07:00
...b10010b...
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quote:
Originally written by Redstart:

quote:
Originally written by Thuryl:

That's easy to say when you're rich enough to buy an oven and keep it in working order. If you can't spare several thousand dollars for that[...]
God, I hope you're exaggerating.

Sounds like someone's never shopped for whitegoods. A good oven can easily run close to $10000.

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The Empire Always Loses: This Time For Sure!
Posts: 9973 | Registered: Saturday, March 30 2002 08:00
Warrior
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Really?? Like, seriously, whenever I've looked in catalogues (dreaming of the day when I have my own home and enough money to renovate it lol!) a decent (not top-of-the-range, but average) oven, stove and rangehood set has been around the $3000 mark. Okay, that's Australian dollars, but it wouldn't be THAT much difference. About $2500 US or thereabouts.

And Archmage - I love your idea! Awesome way to promote healthier eating!

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Third generation geek and heathen!
Posts: 93 | Registered: Tuesday, December 11 2007 08:00
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News from the front!

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Posts: 1186 | Registered: Friday, June 18 2004 07:00
Agent
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Slimming Santa is useless when animated characters promoting "high-fructose corn syrup in disguise" are prevalent on television.
Posts: 1384 | Registered: Tuesday, February 6 2007 08:00
Shaper
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Well, reading between the lines, I'd say the incredible stupidity of the resolution is a guise to sneak through religious superiority of Christians. This line in particular was alarming:
quote:
(5) rejects bigotry and persecution directed against Christians, both in the United States and worldwide;
It certainly would lay a bit of groundwork for such a goal.

Of course, I could be completely off the mark here, which would demonstrate how very high levels of stupidity can sometimes become contagious.

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Posts: 2686 | Registered: Friday, September 8 2006 07:00
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Member # 869
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quote:
Originally written by Lucheiah:

Really?? Like, seriously, whenever I've looked in catalogues (dreaming of the day when I have my own home and enough money to renovate it lol!) a decent (not top-of-the-range, but average) oven, stove and rangehood set has been around the $3000 mark. Okay, that's Australian dollars, but it wouldn't be THAT much difference. About $2500 US or thereabouts.
I was probably looking at the higher end of the range, but the point is that even a decent one is going to cost more than many working-class people have readily available. If your oven breaks down, you can't necessarily afford to replace it any time soon... and then not cooking for yourself becomes a habit.

quote:
Originally written by Nioca:

Well, reading between the lines, I'd say the incredible stupidity of the resolution is a guise to sneak through religious superiority of Christians.
That kind of resolution is unfortunately pretty common, and the default position tends to be to vote for it so as not to rock the boat, even if you don't know what you're voting for. A representative once successfully passed a resolution to honour the Boston Strangler for his "innovative efforts in the field of population management", just to make a point about how silly the whole system was.

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Posts: 9973 | Registered: Saturday, March 30 2002 08:00
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Thuryl , you should check the prices in the states. I think one of the most expensive ranges I've seen was still only $2,500. More than I need for sure, more suited to a household that entertains frequently. Whereas I am entertaining very infrequently.

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Posts: 4114 | Registered: Monday, April 25 2005 07:00
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quote:
Originally written by Jumpin' Salmon:

Thuryl , you should check the prices in the states. I think one of the most expensive ranges I've seen was still only $2,500. More than I need for sure, more suited to a household that entertains frequently. Whereas I am entertaining very infrequently.
There are definitely ovens out there that cost over $10000.

Anyway! The point is that if you don't remember the last time you had over $100 in your bank account, you're not getting an oven any time soon.

[ Thursday, December 13, 2007 18:16: Message edited by: Thuryl ]

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Even I have over one hundred dollars in my bank account.

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Posts: 1384 | Registered: Tuesday, February 6 2007 08:00
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quote:
Originally written by Excalibur:

Even I have over one hundred dollars in my bank account.
"Even" you? If your family can afford a computer with internet access, you're not exactly among the poorest of the poor, now are you?

[ Thursday, December 13, 2007 19:12: Message edited by: Thuryl ]

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Not to continue the tangent, as I also wanted to talk about an old neighbor of mine who used to sit on the porch and call out "Hi ho" whenever he saw someone he knew, but a person doesn't need a $10,000 range in order to cook a healthy meal using raw ingredients. A simple $500 stove will take care of the job, and most major appliance stores offer credit. Some even offer 0% as long as you pay the balance within 12 months. So, I contend that anyone with a job can afford a stove, especially if they can afford a house. If you rent, rent an apartment that has a stove.

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Synergy, et al - "I don't get it."

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Shaper
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Even über-Christian Ned Flanders greets people with "Heidely-ho-dely, neighborino."

-S-

Gah, can't type rite today.

[ Thursday, December 13, 2007 20:00: Message edited by: Synergy ]

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Shaper
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What's wrong with a 10$ hotplate?

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Posts: 2395 | Registered: Friday, November 2 2001 08:00
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A cheap, new, electric cooker costs around £250 - which equates to around $500. Example

Relatedly, in the UK the government makes grants or loans to poor families who can't afford to buy certain essential items, including cookers. (Having said that, the social fund is poorly administered and almost no one has heard of it...)

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Posts: 1104 | Registered: Monday, March 10 2003 08:00
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Just one more comment on stove pricing:
quote:
Originally written by Thuryl:

Sounds like someone's never shopped for whitegoods. A good oven can easily run close to $10000.
You're right, I haven't. Every apartment and house around here comes already equipped with one, and to-date I've never even heard of one single stove or oven breaking down. But having done a little research on my end, I was able to find pretty decent brand name oven+stove combos for ?350 (essentially the same $500 mentioned earlier). In addition to that you'd probably need to install ventilation for it, which would cost ~?100 plus installation. Oh, and the stuff you gave a link to did have "designer" on each of the product names - obviously that cranks up the price.
Posts: 353 | Registered: Monday, January 9 2006 08:00
Warrior
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The apartment I moved into when I first moved out of home (and am still currently living in) has its own stove/oven, and part of the rental agreement was that if the stove/oven breaks, we call the real estate agent and they get in contact with the landlord and he deals with replacing it, as it's his equipment that has broken down. Same goes for the shower, or toilet, or the hot water unit. Any whitegoods we brought into the apartment are our responsibility to maintain and replace if they break; any appliances that were in the place when we moved in are the landlord's responsibility.

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Posts: 93 | Registered: Tuesday, December 11 2007 08:00
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Every house I've entered has a stove, in America at least. When I lived in Imuris, Mexico some houses didn't.

quote:
What's wrong with a 10$ hotplate?
My music teacher has a family of ten, and I couldn't imagine him cooking everything on a hotplate. However, they're entirely practical if you're single.

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What's wrong with ten $10 hotplates?

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Posts: 3560 | Registered: Wednesday, November 7 2001 08:00
Shaper
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Just going back to the oven debate, my family didn't get a proper oven until I was about 5 - before then we just used a stove and a grill. There have also been times when we've only been able to afford food that clearly wasn't doing anything great for us nutritionally, but was cheap enough to live off.

Now, we're fortunate that both my parents have reasonably paid jobs (I remember for much of my childhood we lived off my dad's wages (about £8,000) and child benefits so maybe it just seems reasonable comparitively), and we eat much better because of it. Just as an example, when you can only afford to eat bags of frozen oven chips and tins of baked beans, you don't get much fruit.

Oh, and I know society's definition of "beautiful" is totally wrong, but I couldn't resist...

quote:
By Andra:
How many people have ever looked at pants in the junior clothes department?
Is that a trick question, and do you work for any branch of the Metropolitan Police? We have a word for people that look at pants in the junior clothes department over here in England... :P

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Nikki's Nook - bigger than Jesus?
Posts: 2864 | Registered: Monday, September 8 2003 07:00
Infiltrator
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Coming from a family that wouldn't as rich (their times when both my parents didn't have jobs). Not having a stove,oven,microwave, and internet access (local library) have never been a problem. That said you be hard press to convince me cooking is a matter of class. As far as I know its customary for an apartment to come with an oven. I have seen no discernible difference in the distribution of fast food places in one part of town compared with another part of town. If cooking was more prevalent in one part of town compared too another big business would know about. Since both my parents are weight consensus but neither have had trouble losing weight.

Its is rare for a family not to have a working oven. The oven is a large light bulb. It filament will on rare occasions break. When it does break you go to the store and buy a $15 replacement. The only other way an oven can break is A: its older then you are B: your trying to break it. If you buy a new oven every time the filament breaks then I have to question your intellect or assume your incredibly wealthy. Being poor is no excuse for being fat.

[ Saturday, December 15, 2007 05:01: Message edited by: Safey ]

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Posts: 479 | Registered: Wednesday, July 12 2006 07:00
Shaper
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Profile Homepage #49
quote:
Originally written by Safey:

Coming from a family that wouldn't as rich (their times when both my parents didn't have jobs). Not having a stove,oven,microwave, and internet access (local library) have never been a problem. That said you be hard press to convince me cooking is a matter of class. As far as I know its customary for an apartment to come with an oven.
As far as you know? In England, a lot of places don't, and you have to either bring one from your old house, or else buy a new one. I've been looking at flats lately, since I'm looking at moving out of the family home, and I'd say 50% of them I've seen don't come with an oven.

quote:
Its is rare for a family not to have a working oven. The oven is a large light bulb. It filament will on rare occasions break. When it does break you go to the store and buy a $15 replacement. The only other way an oven can break is A: its older then you are B: your trying to break it. If you buy a new oven every time the filament breaks then I have to question your intellect or assume your incredibly wealthy.
Here I was thinking that an oven is actually a flame, fuelled by gas. In fact, I'm pretty sure we have to light a big stick to get ours to light after turning on the gas because the ignition button (it doubles as a racing car) is broken. Sure, you can get electric ones, but even then if the filament blows, it's not a matter of buying a £10 bulb to replace it. They cost a lot of money.

quote:
Being poor is no excuse for being fat.
None of my family are obese, nor have they ever been obese. But I'm sure that being poor limits the food that people can buy. Supermarkets rarely price fatty, junk food higher than food packed with nutrients and vitamins. I mean, at the supermarket I work at, 1kg bags of frozen ovenchips cost about £1. A bag of fresh potatoes of a similar weight are nearly twice as much. Processed beef-burgers cost £2.20 for 8, whereas the meat you'd need to make them is priced anywhere between £3 to £6, depending on the quality. And I hope that it's obvious which are the better foods out of just those examples. When I first started my job, I was appalled that a single apple cost 39 pence at our shop. 39p for an apple! Suppose you have four kids, like my family. That's £1.60 for an apple each, not counting the two adults. And that's only one of your five-a-day.

And okay, I'm not saying that is the case 100% of the time, and I'm sure that you can find potatoes and meat and whatever cheaper elsewhere, if you look around, but if you're on a budget, you're more likely to buy the cheaper stuff - the stuff that are cheaper because it doesn't have piles of vitamin c in it, because it wasn't grown organically, or whatever. And eating stuff like that leads to obesity.

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