*becomes violently ill, vomits profusely*

AuthorTopic: *becomes violently ill, vomits profusely*
Shaper
Member # 73
Profile #0
MoveOn.org alerted me to the unpleasantness that is Facebook's new Beacon program, and asked me to sign a petition (which I did) and linked me to a Facebook group they started that protests it. I don't have a Facebook, so I can't view it. My friend does, though, and she found this on it, and IMed it to me:

quote:
Facebook and the Federal Government owns your identity...and you can't do jack about it. Why? You used facebook.

http://www.albumoftheday.com/facebook/

Just watch this short documentary. With information derived directly from facebook's "privacy" policy, it explains that facebook has proprietary rights not only to potentially sensitive information you volunteer them, but also to data they possess by tracking your internet surfing habits, IMing, and newspapers (good game beacon and pulse). ONCE YOU USE FACEBOOK, they have the right to gather information about you and then distribute or even DISPLAY it whenever, wherever, and to whomever -- and as often as -- they want, regardless of whether you're using their site. If it were technically possible, they could legally do this tracking for the rest of your life and you wouldn't be able to do jack about it in a court of law. Of course, supposing they're no longer tracking you, they still control a mountain of private personal information about you.

It gets better... facebook has financial and if not official, indirect, ties to corporations and individuals affiliated with the CIA and Office of Information (a D.O.D./DARPA intelligence operation.) If Uncle Sam were a real person, he could sit down by the fireside and read a file entitled "Joshua Lam" and know anything from my date of birth, WHERE I LIVE, who my friends and parents are, what my daily routine is, what I like to read, my political and religious beliefs, my clubs and hobbies, consumer habits, to the websites I go to and more. In fact, anyone who has dealings with facebook could find this stuff out about me EASILY.

So...it's not even a question of "Shut up, you chose to volunteer them the information and you're using their service in exchange," as some people have said. It's more like, "facebook can indiscriminately gather, own, and do almost whatever it wants with virtually any personal information they can and have digitally sniffed out about you." This translates to using it for their own purposes, which could mean anything up to putting your face and all your personal information (including websites you visit) on a highway bill-board (or more realistically, in a mass e-mail) OR sell to the highest bidder...including government agencies, political organizations, and all corporations. I'd say this goes WAAAAAAAAAAAAY frickin' beyond simple advertising schemes and runs straight to an Orwellian theme.

So what now? Well, the government doesn't want to see facebook change. And as long as facebook makes money, facebook doesn't want to see facebook change. Therefore, in order for this blatantly disrespectful, more than sketch "privacy" policy (or lack thereof) to change...facebook has to believe its users will stop using it. It needs to believe people will quit facebook over this. But we won't and the execs at facebook know this, so nothing will change. Nothing will change if we don't quit facebook and go elsewhere.
Glad I never had a Facebook. Unfortunately, my girlfriend did until yesterday, and my siblings, my cousins, and my friends all do.

I'm feeling rather ill right now. This will be an unpleasant night...

[ Wednesday, November 28, 2007 20:33: Message edited by: The Almighty Do-er of Stuff ]

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My Myspace, with some of my audial and visual art
The Lyceum - The Headquarters of the Blades designing community
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BoE Webring - Self explanatory
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Posts: 2957 | Registered: Thursday, October 4 2001 07:00
Law Bringer
Member # 6489
Profile Homepage #1
Facebook is not the only site that does things like this. It's a public site. You have to expect that any information you put there will not be private. I frankly don't care what they do with my personal information.

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"Dumbledore returns from the dead and declares it to be hammertime, Harry proceeds to break it down, Voldemort is unable to touch this." —Dintiradan
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Posts: 1556 | Registered: Sunday, November 20 2005 08:00
Law Bringer
Member # 6785
Profile #2
Time to get off the 'Net and live in a cave. You gave up most of your rights long ago.

I never joined Facebook or any of the other social viruses out there, but there's more information about me out there than I wish. That's why almost all of you don't have my real name. It minimizes the ease of tracking what I say here to the rest of my information. I'm not a Google away.
Posts: 4643 | Registered: Friday, February 10 2006 08:00
Agent
Member # 8030
Profile Homepage #3
Unfortunately, nothing much can be done because of the Patriot Act . Of course, that is true only if the government does have involvement in this situation. I do believe the government is involved, and such incidents do not surprise me. However, there are ways to block facebook.

For the Windows user there are programs like SpyBot and ZoneAlarm which do a good job preventing shady characters from penetrating your computer. On the other hand, Mac users don't have to worry much.

*Looks at sig*

Welcome to America.

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Jesus is a pacifist.
Ron Paul for '08!
Posts: 1384 | Registered: Tuesday, February 6 2007 08:00
Guardian
Member # 5360
Profile #4
Society is far more Orwellian than you think. All that's left is the Two-minutes Hate and cameras in the TVs.

And Nalyd prefers Kucinich.

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May the fires of Undeath burn in your soul, and consume it.
Posts: 1636 | Registered: Wednesday, January 5 2005 08:00
Law Bringer
Member # 6785
Profile #5
I forgot the Wall Street Journal editorial op-ed "I Spy" on how most surveillance cameras are being monitored by bored teenagers who upload their favorites to YouTube. You too could be come a star without knowing it.
Posts: 4643 | Registered: Friday, February 10 2006 08:00
? Man, ? Amazing
Member # 5755
Profile #6
Yeah I was already aware of the issues with Facebook, and the connections between it and everything.

The thing is, there are only a handful of men and women that sit on the BoD of the Fortune 500. I mean, one guy might sit on 10 or more boards of different companies. That is just how it works. It didn't surprise me at all, and it shouldn't surprise you, that the US government is interested in technologies that gather information and analyze it. If the CIA is going to use this technology to break up terrorist/counterfeit/drug networks without endangering agents that currently have to infiltrate them, I'll sign right up. I'll tell them how I network, and gladly volunteer that test data.

Because they aren't monitoring you, or me, or even Alorael. Yeah, he's on facebook too. They are analyzing how we interact even after we establish friendships. They are analyzing the tools we plug in to our page to see how networks can function. This gives them levels of analysis based on hundreds of thousands of iterations, using real people.

So freak out, be paranoid, and protect your private information from people you don't want it seen by. But relax about the Feds. We are already citizens, and there are really no chances that there is going to be any kind of non-parliamentary overthrow of our government any time soon. There is no threat.

And lay off the partisan politics. Please. There are enough things that divide us already without adding that to the mix. How about we concentrate on that which joins us together. Wouldn't that be nice?

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Synergy, et al - "I don't get it."

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Posts: 4114 | Registered: Monday, April 25 2005 07:00
Agent
Member # 8030
Profile Homepage #7
quote:
any time soon.
How could [I]America's[/B] government possibly be overthrown?

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Jesus is a pacifist.
Ron Paul for '08!
Posts: 1384 | Registered: Tuesday, February 6 2007 08:00
Shaper
Member # 73
Profile #8
I actually zoned out during the part about the government connections. I was more concerned with the fact that registering with Facebook gives them an irrevocable, unlimited right to spy on you however they want for the rest of your life and use what they find for whatever purposes they wish. This is a private company, not the government.

Of course, I saw this at midnight and it's 1:45 now, so I might have misunderstood something.

I'm going to bed now.

EDIT: Well, not "private" so to speak. They trade on the stock market. What I meant was non-government, profit-maximizing firm.

[ Wednesday, November 28, 2007 21:47: Message edited by: The Almighty Do-er of Stuff ]

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My Myspace, with some of my audial and visual art
The Lyceum - The Headquarters of the Blades designing community
The Louvre - The Blades of Avernum graphics database
Alexandria - The Blades of Exile Scenario database
BoE Webring - Self explanatory
Polaris - Free porn here
Odd Todd - Fun for the unemployed (and everyone else too)
They Might Be Giants - Four websites for one of the greatest bands in existance
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Posts: 2957 | Registered: Thursday, October 4 2001 07:00
By Committee
Member # 4233
Profile #9
I think it's an overreaction. Whatever facebook may say in their terms, if you quit using facebook and request that they stop disseminating your information, they would likely comply. If it really was as bad as all that, another wing of the gov - the Federal Trade Commission - would likely have something to say about it.

Hate to break it to you guys, but beyond the walls of your home and any closed containers you may have with you, you generally have very little right to privacy. The 4th Amendment, for example, doesn't protect information such as the balance and transactions of your bank accounts. The Fed doesn't even need a warrant for those. But then again, if you're living a law-abiding life, you really have little cause for alarm.

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In today’s America, there are more World of Warcraft players than farmers.
Posts: 2242 | Registered: Saturday, April 10 2004 07:00
Raven v. Writing Desk
Member # 261
Profile Homepage #10
Drew is right. The one thing that is concerning is that this information *could* be put to unscrupulous use. Not against your average Joe, but against those who speak out for positions the people in power find disagreeable.

That is unlikely, and it doesn't affect most people. However, if you put a structure in place that makes it possible, and wait long enough, it will eventually happen. That's why this *is* an important issue.

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Slarty vs. DeskDesk vs. SlartyTimeline of ErmarianG4 Strategy Central
"Making poorly-sourced claims is not the same as determining something."
Posts: 3560 | Registered: Wednesday, November 7 2001 08:00
Shaper
Member # 73
Profile #11
I actually zoned out during the part about the government connections. It was the rest that scared me.

I thought it was saying they have the right to read your IMs and find out which newspapers you read and also do whatever they want to spy on you for the rest of your life and use what they find however they want.

I just watched it again though. It's actually saying they can use info about you that they read in the newspaper (which anyone at all who reads the newspaper will know), and that if you provide them with you IM screen name they can send your IM contacts to people in your Facebook contacts or vice versa. The next bit is standard, unalarming Internet ass-covering, quite similar to what this very forum uses.

Whoops.

My friend didn't actually say whether this link was provided by MoveOn themselves or just someone in the Facebook group. I assumed it was the former, but it was probably the latter. Albumoftheday is basically Alarmist Bullcrap Headquarters anyway, which I forgot at the time of the post, and if what I interpreted it to mean was actually true, MoveOn would probably be focusing on that rather than simply the Beacon program.

Moral of the story: Everything seems scary at 1:30 in the morning, when you're tired beyond rational thought or basic information comprehension.

*sheepishly crawls into corner and hides*

[ Thursday, November 29, 2007 08:07: Message edited by: The Almighty Do-er of Stuff ]

--------------------
My Myspace, with some of my audial and visual art
The Lyceum - The Headquarters of the Blades designing community
The Louvre - The Blades of Avernum graphics database
Alexandria - The Blades of Exile Scenario database
BoE Webring - Self explanatory
Polaris - Free porn here
Odd Todd - Fun for the unemployed (and everyone else too)
They Might Be Giants - Four websites for one of the greatest bands in existance
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Posts: 2957 | Registered: Thursday, October 4 2001 07:00
Lifecrafter
Member # 6700
Profile Homepage #12
quote:
Originally by ADoS
*sheepishly crawls into corner and hides*
Eh, it happens, and we're all wiser and more self-aware for it. Don't sweat it.

My take on the issue:
I am who I am, and I'll be the same person in person, online, in the face of an employer, potential employer, or anyone else. You won't get any more about me online than you would if you asked a few friends personal questions.
So what if Big Brother is watching? If he doesn't like my opinion, there's nothing he can do about it. The only thing the government can do is punish me for a crime already committed, and any problems with business or politics that may result will be the the same problems that would come from being honest face-to-face in the long run.
And, you know, if a business tries to cater to my desires and tastes, why is that a bad thing?

I like social networking. Networking sites are great tools when they aren't used as popularity contests.
Facebook, in particular, allows my friends, family, and housemates to do the keeping up with them for me. And gives a good chance (and excuse) to keep in communication with people I wouldn't otherwise. And I get to learn more about others, as they express themselves publically.

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The Silent Assassin once considered starting an audioblog.
The only reason why he didn't go through was because we couldn't get the microphone to work.

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What's Your Destiny?

Ushmushmeifa: Lenar's power is almighty and ineffable.

All hail lord Noric, god of... well, something important, I'm sure.
Posts: 735 | Registered: Monday, January 16 2006 08:00
Guardian
Member # 6670
Profile Homepage #13
Sometimes I wonder about how much access Facebook has to my home computer. One time I logged on while I was signed on to AIM, and for a month after that it asked me if I wanted to add my AIM buddies to my friends list. There was an article on Slashdot not too long ago about Facebook monitoring some online purchases; I didn't RTFM, so I'm not sure if I've got that right.

But really, as long as it stays in its own sandbox, I don't mind it. It's not like I have anything incriminating on my profile ([url]http://dintiradan.ermarian.net/images/facebook.png]or anything at all, really).

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Bandit camp? You told me we were looking for the nearest strip club.
- Belkar (OotS #154)
Posts: 1509 | Registered: Tuesday, January 10 2006 08:00
Law Bringer
Member # 2984
Profile Homepage #14
quote:
There are enough things that divide us already without adding that to the mix. How about we concentrate on that which joins us together. Wouldn't that be nice?
Free men pull in all kinds of directions...

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The Noble and Ancient Order of Polaris - We're Not Yet Dead.
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Did-chat thentagoespyet jumund fori is jus, hat onlime gly nertan ne gethen Firyoubbit 'obio.'
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Posts: 8752 | Registered: Wednesday, May 14 2003 07:00
Shaper
Member # 247
Profile Homepage #15
Oh jeez! The government knows who my friends are and what I read. So ****ing what? Go ahead and track me. I couldn't care less.

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The Knight Between Posts.
Posts: 2395 | Registered: Friday, November 2 2001 08:00
Agent
Member # 8030
Profile Homepage #16
Something related.
Posts: 1384 | Registered: Tuesday, February 6 2007 08:00
Lifecrafter
Member # 6388
Profile #17
quote:
Originally written by Jumpin' Salmon:

If the CIA is going to use this technology to break up terrorist/counterfeit/drug networks without endangering agents that currently have to infiltrate them, I'll sign right up. I'll tell them how I network, and gladly volunteer that test data.
The CIA is and has always been more in the business of paying people to slit throats.

I thought you were smarter than to trust this kind of talk, Salmon; for the most part, the government already has all of the means it could possibly use to gather information on actual criminal organizations. Further powers are generally used for various nasty ends - intimidation, voter suppression, that sort of thing.

There is a tremendous wealth of examples to suggest that in practicality, the people who make a living out of spying are warped, dangerous human beings. At best, they're harmless, perverse voyeurs; at worst, they're generally fascist.

And this ain't a political issue. Handing people more leeway to spy always leads to most of them abusing it. Unless you honestly believe that the only problem with the KGB was its big, bad, mean communist civilian overseers - if only it had been in the free world, like the well-meaning, inoffensive MI5/6 or FBI/CIA.

Furthermore, there's a sort of natural selection process at work: the more leeway you give to spy-orgs to collect information on people without any actual wrongdoing or warrant, the more powerful the sort of person who just takes a voyeuristic pleasure out of spying on their personal or political bugbears is going to be.

J. Edgar Hoover couldn't have come to power without the FBI as it was in his day - an incredibly powerful federal body largely without intraservice oversight, and without the strict regulations on conduct and information-gathering it has now. Similarly, the FBI as it existed in Hoover's day couldn't have been run for long by anyone but some kind of creepy, voyeuristic reactionary. Maybe he wouldn't have been a crossdresser - but then again, if J. Edgar Hoover hadn't spent all that energy getting pretty from time to time, who's to say what other horrible things he might have done?

quote:
Originally written by The Almighty Do-er of Stuff:

I posted this thread on Venganza as well, and so now I'm eating my words in two places.
Evidently one of the natural rights libertarians hold dearest is the right to buy power and monitor everything anyone who crosses their path says or does for any slipup substantial enough to result in public opprobrium and/or legal charges - and in the process use their substantial wealth to prevent anyone but their business colleagues and cronies from acting in the public sphere in any fashion without fear of reprisal.

Or privacy. One of those.

[ Friday, November 30, 2007 00:08: Message edited by: Najosz Thjsza Kjras ]
Posts: 794 | Registered: Tuesday, October 11 2005 07:00
Agent
Member # 8030
Profile Homepage #18
Libertarians like liberty, therefore they like privacy.

Welcome back Alec. It's a shame you don't post more often.

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Jesus is a pacifist.
Ron Paul for '08!
Posts: 1384 | Registered: Tuesday, February 6 2007 08:00
BANNED
Member # 10430
Profile #19
The government has been capable of spying on civilians for decades. ECHELON, anyone?

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"I am Barzhal, and I am here to ask you a question:
Is a man not entitled to the products of his own essence?

No, says the servile in Medab. It belongs to the oppressed.
No, says the Shaper in Terrestia. It belongs to the Shaper Council.
No, says the Trakovite in hiding. It belongs to no-one.

I rejected those answers. Instead, I chose something
different. I chose the impossible. I chose… Ascension."
Posts: 136 | Registered: Wednesday, September 12 2007 07:00
? Man, ? Amazing
Member # 5755
Profile #20
Gathering data and processing data are two entirely different creatures.

Alec; I appreciate your candor. Know that I stand to the left of center and don't support certain underlying policies which create the current need for extracurricular government activities. My suggestion is only that there might be an application of the Facebook protocol which would obviate the need for agents. Those same actors which do harm to others are also in harm's way. I would not see that happening, if at all possible.

At some point it will become necessary to discuss the factors which create the current requirement for agencies like the alphabets that you mentioned. They certainly seem pervasive, and with their need-to-know-eyes-only philosophy to protect the "whatever" of the American peoples, at some point it might become important to figure out if, in fact, the creatures that they seek to hide are as frightening as they suggest.

Of course, before that happens, climate changes will have accelerated to the point where it is moot. Bigger fish to fry, and all that.

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Synergy, et al - "I don't get it."

Thralni - "a lot of people are ... too weird to be trusted"
Posts: 4114 | Registered: Monday, April 25 2005 07:00
Warrior
Member # 6096
Profile Homepage #21
Yeah, there's always been surveillance, but it's increasing, and the growth has accelerated since 9/11 (2001). Surveillance can be used, for example, in advertising. It's not always invisible.

In England, someone whom I know personally wrote an email in Gmail to her teacher about a threatening miscarriage and asked for extra time to return her essays because of it. Immediately after she had sent the email, she saw two advertisements on the Gmail mailbox page, one advertising grief counseling, the other baby funerals(?)... Something along the lines of "Come to this page to mourn your baby! Free trial!"

I find it disgusting that one's private medical information is used by corporations (or anyone) in this way. Of course, it's the system we live in, although I refuse to believe that there are no alternatives to it.
Posts: 77 | Registered: Sunday, July 10 2005 07:00
Agent
Member # 8030
Profile Homepage #22
quote:
Yeah, there's always been surveillance, but it's increasing, and the growth has accelerated since 9/11 (2001).
I doubt internet surveillance has increased because of 9/11. The government freaked out in other security measures, but the internet surveillance we have now is just typical nosiness. Since file sharing is rampant, I'd say that the government rations little attention to internet. In actuality, most of the spying committed towards your computer is carried out by large companies.

Concerning advertisements, I watched a segment about the technologies in the move Minority Report. Apparently they predict devices like that being commonplace decades from now.

I wish technology stopped advancing. I'm happy with our present-day technology.

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Project Von Bora
Posts: 1384 | Registered: Tuesday, February 6 2007 08:00
Law Bringer
Member # 2984
Profile Homepage #23
quote:
Originally written by Excalibur:

Libertarians like liberty
If you want to be literal about this, so do liberals - and yet, libertarians and liberals are often surprisingly unsuccessful at getting along.

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The Noble and Ancient Order of Polaris - We're Not Yet Dead.
EncyclopediaBlades ForgeArchivesStatsRSS (This Topic / Forum) • BlogNaNoWriMo
Did-chat thentagoespyet jumund fori is jus, hat onlime gly nertan ne gethen Firyoubbit 'obio.'
Decorum deserves a whole line of my signature, and an entry in your bookmarks.
Posts: 8752 | Registered: Wednesday, May 14 2003 07:00
Warrior
Member # 6096
Profile Homepage #24
quote:
Originally written by Excalibur:

quote:
Yeah, there's always been surveillance, but it's increasing, and the growth has accelerated since 9/11 (2001).
I doubt internet surveillance has increased because of 9/11.

The Intensification of Surveillance - Crime, Terrorism and Warfare in the Information Age edited by Kirstie Ball and Frank Webster, contains articles that claim that surveillance has increased after&because of 9/11 and suspect that it has also on the internet. It was published in 2003, though. (I had to read that for a sociology course some time ago.)

The introduction chapter says, among other things:
"The presumption is that terrorists exhibit patterns of behaviour that can be identified by ‘data mining’ many diverse and apparently mundane activities which are subject to surveillance of one sort or another."
Posts: 77 | Registered: Sunday, July 10 2005 07:00