What do you believe....

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AuthorTopic: What do you believe....
Apprentice
Member # 5881
Profile #0
takes a person to be a ideal politic candidate?
Posts: 21 | Registered: Friday, June 3 2005 07:00
Guardian
Member # 2238
Profile Homepage #1
I'm just trying to figure out why the heck you'd want to go into politics.

I don't really like old people running my country. If you're young and hip, go for it. If you know what the *bleep* the world is about today, then go for it. But if you are another upclass snob, then stay home in your mansion with your backyard tennis court and too-young-for-you-only-married-for-the-money wife.

Adu.

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Posts: 1582 | Registered: Wednesday, November 13 2002 08:00
Law Bringer
Member # 2984
Profile Homepage #2
Capitalization and grammar.

Aside from that, how do you define "good"? Successful, or beneficial?

A successful candidate needs quick analytical powers and good judgement. He/She needs to anticipate the opinions of voters (I assume we're talking about a democracy here), sense the dividing issues and decide which sides to take on what questions, and what questions to avoid (with a respect to not just short-term popularity, but a long-term reputation as well as future consistency). The candidate needs a sense of which of his/her colleagues to rely on and which to distrust. They must be cautious in making announcements, moves and promises, but bold enough to change direction if they see see an opportunity for improvement. They need a confident appearance in public relations, and a solid, stable ego that does not need to avoid admitting mistakes.
Finally, they must never take their voters for idiots. Even if they are, this perception has a way of making itself known in one's behaviour even to the most foolish, and there is nothing a person dislikes more than being taken for a fool.

[ Monday, June 27, 2005 14:41: Message edited by: Vote Arancaytar ]

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Posts: 8752 | Registered: Wednesday, May 14 2003 07:00
Guardian
Member # 2238
Profile Homepage #3
Good political leader: Abraham Lincoln.

Successful political leader: Adolf Hitler.

It's debatable.

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The critics agree!

Demonslayer is "a five star hit!" raves TIMES Weekly!

"I've never heard such thoughtful comments. This man is a genious!" says two-time Nobel Prize winning physicist Erwin Rasputin!
Posts: 1582 | Registered: Wednesday, November 13 2002 08:00
By Committee
Member # 4233
Profile #4
Charisma, connections, and a fair amount of money. Also, a good grasp of how to use indefinite articles is helpful. Unless you're running in Arkansas or Montana, that is.
Posts: 2242 | Registered: Saturday, April 10 2004 07:00
Shaper
Member # 5450
Profile Homepage #5
Good persuasion skills.

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Polaris
Posts: 2396 | Registered: Saturday, January 29 2005 08:00
BANNED
Member # 4
Profile Homepage #6
I'm not sure I'd call Ole Abe "good". Okay, maybe.
As for a good politician- having read something not written by Friedman, Adam Smith, et al is a good start.

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Posts: 6936 | Registered: Tuesday, September 18 2001 07:00
Guardian
Member # 2238
Profile Homepage #7
You don't think so?

I've always regarded him as our best president yet.

I also like Washington, especially his farewell speech...

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The critics agree!

Demonslayer is "a five star hit!" raves TIMES Weekly!

"I've never heard such thoughtful comments. This man is a genious!" says two-time Nobel Prize winning physicist Erwin Rasputin!
Posts: 1582 | Registered: Wednesday, November 13 2002 08:00
Apprentice
Member # 5847
Profile #8
Douglas Adams had it right...

"Anybody capable of getting themselves made President should on no account be allowed to do the job."
Posts: 20 | Registered: Thursday, May 26 2005 07:00
Shaper
Member # 247
Profile Homepage #9
Fidel Castro is a good leader.

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Posts: 2395 | Registered: Friday, November 2 2001 08:00
Law Bringer
Member # 335
Profile Homepage #10
What it takes to be a leader has already been outlined. A strong enough personality and enough charisma to sway others to your point of view, a good idea of who to appoint to do what, good rapport with the public, and so on. A successful leader is simply one who has enough of these qualities.

Being a successful leader is necessary but not sufficient if you aspire to the title of good leader. A good leader is one who uses his talents for good ends. Unfortunately, good is so subjective and almost always polarizing that good leaders, or more accurately great leaders, are almost always as reviled as they are beloved. Often more, at least during their careers.

—Alorael, who can more briefly summarize by saying that a successful leader is one who can make others follow, and a good leader is someone who leads those followers in the right direction.
Posts: 14579 | Registered: Saturday, December 1 2001 08:00
Master
Member # 4614
Profile Homepage #11
Stong beliefs, well defined goals, support of the people, and a willingness to do what's promised.

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Posts: 3360 | Registered: Friday, June 25 2004 07:00
Triad Mage
Member # 7
Profile Homepage #12
If we're willing to derail this into a discussion of US Presidents ...

Honest Abe was a good leader, but not necessary a good politician or president.

Washington's second term was a disaster and a half.

Andrew Jackson was our nation's best president, IMHO.

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Posts: 9436 | Registered: Wednesday, September 19 2001 07:00
Bob's Big Date
Member # 3151
Profile Homepage #13
I'd counter that the Cherokee might perhaps disagree with you, and that Jefferson's assault on the Bank, in fact his most memorable act of public policy, was driven by a personal conflict and lead to wide-scale land speculation, financial instability, and, by and by, an economic collapse.

His rise to power was notable, but I don't feel his Presidency was all that great, and as a person Jackson was contemptible at best. I'd give FDR the title of 'best Presdient', with Lincoln, the other Roosevelt, and perhaps Jefferson trailing behind.

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Posts: 2367 | Registered: Friday, June 27 2003 07:00
Guardian
Member # 2238
Profile Homepage #14
I'm going to agree, FDR would have to be our greatest president. Great guy, great leader. I know I'd follow him anyday.

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The critics agree!

Demonslayer is "a five star hit!" raves TIMES Weekly!

"I've never heard such thoughtful comments. This man is a genious!" says two-time Nobel Prize winning physicist Erwin Rasputin!
Posts: 1582 | Registered: Wednesday, November 13 2002 08:00
Guardian
Member # 3521
Profile #15
TR's my personal favorite, but FDR held sway in a time of far greater turmoil and uncertainty. The same goes for Lincoln. Alec's top four list sounds reasonable. I agree with his sentiments regarding Jackson, as well. He was a hugely adept politician who had an uncanny mastery over the passions of the common man, but his policies were suspect and frequently contradictory.

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Stughalf

"Delusion arises from anger. The mind is bewildered by delusion. Reasoning is destroyed when the mind is bewildered. One falls down when reasoning is destroyed."- The Bhagavad Gita.
Posts: 1798 | Registered: Sunday, October 5 2003 07:00
Warrior
Member # 5986
Profile #16
quote:
Originally written by George A. Custer & The SE Party:

I'd counter that the Cherokee might perhaps disagree with you, and that Jefferson's assault on the Bank, in fact his most memorable act of public policy, was driven by a personal conflict and lead to wide-scale land speculation, financial instability, and, by and by, an economic collapse.
I agree. Jackson was a contemptible fool who had very little regard for the Native Americans who were on the land before, and decided to push west, despite the Supreme Court's decision to stop him, I believe. His response to protests against his defying of the Supreme Court went something like, "They've made their law, now let them enforce it!" He is one of my least favorite Presidents.

I think George Washington and FDR are tied. Washington not only set precedents for the "cabinet" system, he also foresaw some of the major problems the country could face with a new government, as seen in his Farewell Address. Particularly, his warning against forming political factions was very well-founded. From Anti-Federalists and Federalists to Republicans and Democrats, people have become more focused on the parties that run the country rather than the policies of those that have the power to intepret what the people want. Without Washington's sound foundations, the U.S.A. would have crumbled long ago.

FDR, of course, deserves a seat on the same level of Wahington because he was able to save the U.S.A. from certain economic collapse. He wasn't afraid to take risks and apply Keynesian economics (high-spending to stimulate the market) to the economy despite the fact that lots of people thought he was crazy. He was also legitimately elected four times, which I think is pretty telling of his ability. Granted, he almost lost the fourth term and many people were irritated that he broke the two-term tradition, but trying new things is exactly what made FDR great.

I admire Lincoln's devotion to keeping the Union together, personally. He was willing to risk his good name by supporting the emancipation of the slaves so that he could weaken the South's economic base and thus give the Union strength. Most politicians these days have a strict CYA policy, if you get my drift.

[ Tuesday, June 28, 2005 15:22: Message edited by: Slp006 ]

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Wu wei... it's the only way
Posts: 154 | Registered: Monday, June 20 2005 07:00
Law Bringer
Member # 4153
Profile Homepage #17
quote:
Originally written by VCH:

Fidel Castro is a good leader.
Couldn't agree more... anybody who actually takes the time to do something good for his/her people is the best kind of leader. That, and being able to admit to your mistakes (and actually LEARN from them) really helps. Really good leaders will also rely on stuff other than their own opinions (i.e: when JFK listened to his advisors about the Missile Crisis, instead of going over the brink). Sadly, that takes a certain openness to ideas, which far too many U.S. politicians today lack (curse you, partisan politics!).

However, as has been said, all you need to succeed in politics is a relative in the system, a ton of money, or just suck up to someone in power. It shouldn't work like that, but it does (ahem... Jeb).

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Posts: 4130 | Registered: Friday, March 26 2004 08:00
Warrior
Member # 5986
Profile #18
quote:
Originally written by VCH:

Fidel Castro is a good leader. That, and being able to admit to your mistakes (and actually LEARN from them) really helps.
Ahem. I wish I had seen this one sooner.

Umm, Fidel Castro has had a long reign, and is politically savvy. I'll give him that. However, he has tanked Cuba entirely. Almost everyone there starves. Relatives from the U.S. have to send money over there so Cubans can buy food off of the black market. The ration cards are laughable. They get 14 ounces of meat a year. A year, I'm not kidding, and the Cuban people are constantly trying to flee his iron grip over them. The people in Cuba are miserable, and it infuriates me that many people around the world think poor Fidel was manipulated by the U.S. and is actually a great leader. Ha ha ha. Please. Fidel made crazy demands of the United States investors, and only a political moron would have expected us to agree to his demands. Fidel is many things, but he is no moron.

He might have admitted that the ten-million ton sugar crop was a failure, but that's only because he wouldn't be able to hide the absence of millions of tons of sugar from the rest of the public, since sugar is the chief crop Cuba produces. He still insists that Cuba is doing better than ever and that Americans give him a bad rap and fabricate all of the negative stuff about him. He's conveniently using the United States as a scapegoat to gain sympathy from the rest of the world and to justify the continued state of revolution. Without such a big enemy 90 miles away, he'd lose much of his ability to rally the troops to his side (i.e. his power source).

This hits really close to home, because my father is Cuban, and my grandparents fled the country. Ask somebody in South America (where most of the historians are), and they'll side with Fidel, because Fidel operate under the guise of Communism, and Latin American historians love Communism very much. However, ask a Cuban if el presidente is a good leader and they'll tell you heck no. If you try to argue that Fidel is a good leader afterwards, they will try to burn you at a nearby stake.

So... Fidel is about as good a leader for Cuba as Stalin was for Russia, and thinking otherwise is to ignore the hard facts.

[ Tuesday, June 28, 2005 18:30: Message edited by: Slp006 ]

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Wu wei... it's the only way
Posts: 154 | Registered: Monday, June 20 2005 07:00
Guardian
Member # 2238
Profile Homepage #19
Actually...

My sister went to Cuba last summer for school, as she's majoring in Latin American studies. From what I can tell, she says it's really not that bad a place at all. While she was certainly in the higher grade places, she mentioned neither wide-spread starvation nor miserable-ity. But who knows, maybe a tree hugger like herself is lying, right?

She also saw Fidel while he made a speech. And that in itself was a cool enough reason to visit Cuba.

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The critics agree!

Demonslayer is "a five star hit!" raves TIMES Weekly!

"I've never heard such thoughtful comments. This man is a genious!" says two-time Nobel Prize winning physicist Erwin Rasputin!
Posts: 1582 | Registered: Wednesday, November 13 2002 08:00
Warrior
Member # 5986
Profile #20
The starvation in the higher-grade places is pretty low because the people have enough money to buy from the black market. Nobody cries in the streets or anything, but there's a lot of stuff visitors know nothing about. If you get caught carrying red meat in Cuba, they can put you in prison for a very long time (10-20 years), for example. I didn't know this until a friend of mine who used to live in Cuba talked to me a couple of weeks ago about a trip she's planning in order to visit her family.

I'm not calling your sister a liar, just...uninformed. Of course, I'm biased, but family stories about getting arrested arbitrarily and malnutrition tend to produce that. My native Cuban grandparents could of course be lying about all of the suffering they had to endure in their country, but I seriously doubt it.

Suppose that your sister had visited Germany during Hitler's reign. She probably would have said the same thing. According to my German grandmother (on the other side of the family mind you; I'm total euro-trash), life was pretty difficult for her during his militant rule. Savvy leaders are usually good at hiding the truth from outsiders.

Fidel is a great speaker. If he wasn't, he'd be out of power by now.

[ Tuesday, June 28, 2005 18:55: Message edited by: Slp006 ]

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Wu wei... it's the only way
Posts: 154 | Registered: Monday, June 20 2005 07:00
? Man, ? Amazing
Member # 5755
Profile #21
Without talking about quality, Cuban nationals receive medical care for free, for life. The meat issue is another instance of equal sharing of resources. But I really know nothing of Cuba, or the politics there, except that it is a typical, stable Caribbean island. Dictatorships are not always a bad thing, it really depends on the natural resources of the country. Ranble. Teddy Roosevelt was a great and visionary president, and he served at a time of expansionism (intracontinental).

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Posts: 4114 | Registered: Monday, April 25 2005 07:00
This Side Towards Enemy
Member # 3098
Profile #22
I'd argue that the fact that Cuba hasn't done worse than it did despite losing its biggest export market when he nationalised US-owned businesses shows a degree of success. On the other hand, I suspect that whilst the Soviet Union wasn't eager to spend significant sums in it terms on Cuba, it still had an important effect on keeping the Cuban economy afloat. Certainly this is reflected by the problems they've run into since the collapse of the USSR.

My personal view is that he's very probably the best Carribean politician of his generation. I'd also say that that's not that hard.

Washington's recommendation against political parties is all well and good until you realise that it's sheer lunacy. Not everybody will support change, so in a democracy you have a natural tendency towards a split between progressives and conservatives. The USA is much better now than it was in 1797. Washington's idea of a sort of updated concordia ordinum is a pipe dream which would have preserved almost all the negative features of US society in that time. Certainly focusing on factions to the exclusion of policy is not admirable. But something to make policy you need to rely on factions.

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Voice of Reasonable Morality
Posts: 961 | Registered: Thursday, June 12 2003 07:00
Guardian
Member # 2238
Profile Homepage #23
Re: the Hitler remark.

You dolt! People in Germany during Hitler's reign WERE better off than before. They actually had food and shelter and things to live by. Ok, death police wandered the streets, but as long as you followed the law, what were they going to do?

My sister spent three months in Cuba, staying with a poor family on the outskirts of their lovely capital. I'm not saying things are worse there than, say, here, but they certainly aren't as bad as many people would have you believe.

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The critics agree!

Demonslayer is "a five star hit!" raves TIMES Weekly!

"I've never heard such thoughtful comments. This man is a genious!" says two-time Nobel Prize winning physicist Erwin Rasputin!
Posts: 1582 | Registered: Wednesday, November 13 2002 08:00
Infiltrator
Member # 5806
Profile Homepage #24
quote:
Originally written by demonslaeyr:

Ok, death police wandered the streets, but as long as you followed the law, what were they going to do?
If you were a jew and the death police came, what would you do? "Follow the law"? There was no such thing as a law in Germany 1938. Acting as you have the right to do something usually gave you the right to do it in the time of 1930-1950. An example of this was Wallenberg who saved around 100,000 jews by fooling germans with exagerrated official papers (Faked papers) that said that the jews were swedish and would be sent to Sweden. The papers were made with papers in the colors of the swedish flag. There were many officials signatures on and there were a couple of official badges with the swedish weapon on...

I got carried away again with my history... ^^; Sorry. As an author I have to know all kind of things so I read heaps of books everyday and... Wait I got carried away again! ><;

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Posts: 437 | Registered: Friday, May 13 2005 07:00

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