Happy Beltane!
Pages
| Author | Topic: Happy Beltane! |
|---|---|
|
Off With Their Heads
Member # 4045
|
written Saturday, May 8 2004 08:26
Profile
Homepage
Okay, then, Mr. Pragmatism, as you claim to be, what can you do with the information that humans are human? -------------------- Kelandon's Pink and Pretty Page!! (The home of BoA's HLPM v1.1!) Rate my scenarios! Northern Kingdom 0: Prologue High Level Party Maker Posts: 7968 | Registered: Saturday, February 28 2004 08:00 |
|
Agent
Member # 618
|
written Saturday, May 8 2004 08:42
Profile
Homepage
No, you mis-read. Humans behave in ways that are human. Doesn't matter how odd it might seem, it is still in the human "behavioural pattern". The average human cannot behave outside this pattern as it does not have the core imagination to behave otherwise. There is an infintesimal number of humans that are capable of "new behaviour". Of these, few do. Therefore, taking into account this and the individual "temperament" (not the word but it'll do), it is possible to create a method of predicting someone's behaviour that will work 99.9999% of the time. There, of course, would be VERY exceptional cases where this would not work. No system is perfect. But it would work well enough to predict individual behaviour. Eventually, it could be adapted to larger numbers - "group behaviour". In fact, if you know anything about "mob psychology", it would become easier as more people were included. There would be more sets of stats to take into account but even then it is very possible. -------------------- I like to say quack because I can, I like to say moooo because I can, but I don't like saying ergle flmp because I can never pronounce phenomenon first try. In conclusion, quack, moooo and phenonemenonmenonnon... Oh Poo. http://s4.invisionfree.com/Ultimate_RP/index.php Try it! Posts: 1487 | Registered: Sunday, February 10 2002 08:00 |
|
Off With Their Heads
Member # 4045
|
written Saturday, May 8 2004 10:19
Profile
Homepage
quote:No, I rephrased. You can claim that I misquoted you, but not that I misunderstood you. quote:Not with what we know about people right now. Psychology have been struggling with this problem for more than a century (and sociology and cognitive science for a bit less), and even the greatest methods are considerably fallible. quote:I do know a bit about mob psychology. I also know that mob psychology, in the strictest sense of the phrase, only works when all of the people in the mob are gathered in one place. You can't use mob psychology to analyze an entire city, for instance, unless that city is gathered at a rally at the moment of analysis. Certain indicators can predict broad trends in mass behavior, but the science of these is in its infancy. Anyway, getting back to the anarchy thing -- so as not to obliterate this topic the way that we did the other one -- Alec, what is it about anarchy that makes it an ideal for you? The personal freedom? The fact that everyone participates? Or what? -------------------- Kelandon's Pink and Pretty Page!! (The home of BoA's HLPM v1.1!) Rate my scenarios! Northern Kingdom 0: Prologue High Level Party Maker Posts: 7968 | Registered: Saturday, February 28 2004 08:00 |
|
...b10010b...
Member # 869
|
written Saturday, May 8 2004 13:59
Profile
Homepage
Basing a system of government around the use of psychology to predict human actions is not even close to being an original idea. Unless you have actually developed a theory of psychology enough that it's a reliable predictor of human actions, you're not saying anything new. [ Saturday, May 08, 2004 14:00: Message edited by: Thuryl ] -------------------- I believe there are 15 747 724 136 275 002 577 105 653 961 181 555 468 044 717 914 527 116 709 366 231 425 076 185 631 031 296 protons in the universe, and the same number of electrons. -- Sir Arthur Eddington Posts: 9973 | Registered: Saturday, March 30 2002 08:00 |
|
Bob's Big Date
Member # 3151
|
written Saturday, May 8 2004 15:33
Profile
Homepage
Personal freedom. Without a communist system also in place, though, it's likely to be more evil than anything else. -------------------- AnamaFreak (3:59:56 AM): Shounen-ai to the MAX ...there really is nothing that can compare to hot gay sex with a mythological icon. --665 Posts: 2367 | Registered: Friday, June 27 2003 07:00 |
|
Guardian
Member # 3521
|
written Sunday, May 9 2004 00:34
Profile
I consider equality to be a more important principle to uphold than freedom. The principle of sanctity of life trumps freedom in my book, as well. As such, I like big government and many clearly-stated rules. I like communism on principle, but support the idea of a very highly-regulated capitalist system, complete with heavily-funded welfare and social security programs. -------------------- Stughalf "The death-knell of the republic had rung as soon as the active power became lodged in the hands of those who sought, not to do justice to all citizens, rich and poor alike, but to stand for one special class and for its interests as opposed to the interests of others."- Theodore Roosevelt, 1903. Posts: 1798 | Registered: Sunday, October 5 2003 07:00 |
|
This Side Towards Enemy
Member # 3098
|
written Sunday, May 9 2004 02:27
Profile
FBM, your theories have far too much in common with Asimov's psychohistory to be even faintly useful. -------------------- "I particularly like the part where he claims not to know what self-aggrandisement means, then demands more wing-wongs up his virgin ass" Posts: 961 | Registered: Thursday, June 12 2003 07:00 |
|
By Committee
Member # 4233
|
written Monday, May 10 2004 05:39
Profile
FBM: you ended up in the position of defending anarchy by attacking my initial opinion ineffectively. Fortunately for you, a fair amount of intelligent discourse ensued. Oh, and I don't believe you have never pirated software. [ Monday, May 10, 2004 05:40: Message edited by: Andrew Miller ] Posts: 2242 | Registered: Saturday, April 10 2004 07:00 |
|
Bob's Big Date
Member # 3151
|
written Thursday, May 13 2004 16:14
Profile
Homepage
I sure have. Sometimes I've felt guilty about it, sometimes I haven't. Depends on how the game handles; I'm not going to buy a car without a test drive. EDIT: By 'pirate', you mean run around the steets with a legally purchased copy of the game in one hand and a cutlass in the other, wearing a hat and parrot and shouting "Arr!" and "Avast!" and such, right? I'm sure you do. </asscover> [ Thursday, May 13, 2004 16:16: Message edited by: Custer's Revenge ] -------------------- AnamaFreak (3:59:56 AM): Shounen-ai to the MAX ...there really is nothing that can compare to hot gay sex with a mythological icon. --665 Posts: 2367 | Registered: Friday, June 27 2003 07:00 |
|
Agent
Member # 618
|
written Thursday, May 13 2004 16:31
Profile
Homepage
Y'know, I come back after a time to find this... well, I wouldn't be bothering except for AM being a self-righteous prig.  So I am. Well FYI people, every dang thing in this topic that I have "politely discussed" is not my viewpoint. I just argue it. I don't believe in anarchy as a form of governance. I don't believe in a form of governance that makes things too predictable. It's just no fun.  I have the motivation to move worlds. If I knew what to do with it... then I would know. But I don't.  Also two last and VERY final things I have to say in this topic, 1) TARD, Asimov did write a series of books and short stories with something similar. You overlook, however, that Asimov wrote SCIENCE FICTION, meaning that at the time it was written it was a scientific possibility. If you know of some research that invalidates this theory conclusively, then sure thing, whine all you want.  2) I have, hand on heart, NEVER pirated software, nor been involved in the production of conterfeit software.But only because neither I, nor any of my friends own a burner.  YEAH, we all believe you Alec, don't we?  -------------------- I like to say quack because I can, I like to say moooo because I can, but I don't like saying ergle flmp because I can never pronounce phenomenon first try. In conclusion, quack, moooo and phenonemenonmenonnon... Oh Poo. http://s4.invisionfree.com/Ultimate_RP/index.php Try it! Posts: 1487 | Registered: Sunday, February 10 2002 08:00 |
|
Infiltrator
Member # 3220
|
written Thursday, May 13 2004 16:36
Profile
quote:Mmm, fetching look, I'm sure. Posts: 437 | Registered: Sunday, July 13 2003 07:00 |
|
Babelicious
Member # 3149
|
written Thursday, May 13 2004 16:51
Profile
Homepage
You are not Maddox, Alec. -------------------- Beatoff Valley: A story told out of order. Posts: 999 | Registered: Friday, June 27 2003 07:00 |
|
Off With Their Heads
Member # 4045
|
written Thursday, May 13 2004 18:07
Profile
Homepage
quote:As I recall, Asimov set it some twenty thousand years in the future, with all the collected mathematical, psychological, and sociological advances of the intervening millenia. It is certainly not feasible at the moment, nor in the near future. And note that you used the *present* tense for your statement. Who/what is Maddox? -------------------- Kelandon's Pink and Pretty Page!! (The home of BoA's HLPM v1.1!) Rate my scenarios! Northern Kingdom 0: Prologue High Level Party Maker Posts: 7968 | Registered: Saturday, February 28 2004 08:00 |
|
...b10010b...
Member # 869
|
written Thursday, May 13 2004 22:37
Profile
Homepage
Asimov's grasp of science was shaky for his time and is laughable today. He should have stuck to politics. -------------------- I believe there are 15 747 724 136 275 002 577 105 653 961 181 555 468 044 717 914 527 116 709 366 231 425 076 185 631 031 296 protons in the universe, and the same number of electrons. -- Sir Arthur Eddington Posts: 9973 | Registered: Saturday, March 30 2002 08:00 |
|
By Committee
Member # 4233
|
written Friday, May 14 2004 05:23
Profile
"well, I wouldn't be bothering except for AM being a self-righteous prig." Guilty as charged, but generally in relation only to what you post. I've posited what I believe, and not just arguing on behalf of something I don't believe. That's hypocrisy. --------------------------- Q: Where does a pirate like to get his grog? A: In a b-ARGH!!! Q: How does he get there? A: In a c-ARGH!!! Q: What does he drink it from? A: A j-ARGH!!! Q: Who is a pirate's favorite scientist? A: Max Planck. [ Friday, May 14, 2004 08:22: Message edited by: Andrew Miller ] Posts: 2242 | Registered: Saturday, April 10 2004 07:00 |
|
This Side Towards Enemy
Member # 3098
|
written Friday, May 14 2004 08:23
Profile
No, that's playing devil's argument. Hypocrisy is believing something but doing something else, generally for material gain. Although I think it's simplistic to claim that's always a bad thing. -------------------- "I particularly like the part where he claims not to know what self-aggrandisement means, then demands more wing-wongs up his virgin ass" Posts: 961 | Registered: Thursday, June 12 2003 07:00 |
|
By Committee
Member # 4233
|
written Friday, May 14 2004 10:07
Profile
I thought hypocrisy was "not practicing what you preach." ----------------------- Q: What did the pirate say to his woman in the echo chamber? A: "Yo, ho! (ho) [ Friday, May 14, 2004 10:08: Message edited by: Andrew Miller ] Posts: 2242 | Registered: Saturday, April 10 2004 07:00 |
|
Off With Their Heads
Member # 4045
|
written Friday, May 14 2004 10:39
Profile
Homepage
Hypocrisy is, indeed, saying one thing and doing another. Believing one thing and saying another is just lying. Believing one thing and arguing for another because no one else will is playing the devil's advocate, though, which is a perfectly legitimate activity if done well. It takes a truly skilled rhetorician, though. -------------------- Kelandon's Pink and Pretty Page!! (The home of BoA's HLPM v1.1!) Rate my scenarios! Northern Kingdom 0: Prologue High Level Party Maker Posts: 7968 | Registered: Saturday, February 28 2004 08:00 |
|
Bob's Big Date
Member # 3151
|
written Friday, May 14 2004 12:48
Profile
Homepage
And it's sophistry if you know it's wrong and argue it anyway. I think. -------------------- AnamaFreak (3:59:56 AM): Shounen-ai to the MAX ...there really is nothing that can compare to hot gay sex with a mythological icon. --665 Posts: 2367 | Registered: Friday, June 27 2003 07:00 |
|
Agent
Member # 618
|
written Friday, May 14 2004 16:17
Profile
Homepage
No Alec, sophistry, or sophism, is merely a plausibly deceptive fallacy. It pertains more to the reasoning than the preaching, but still. I play whatever part seems to be the hardest, yet still within my abilities. Generally I do tend to end up as the devil's advocate, or at least playing the argument. It gets very boring otherwise. I don't have many opinions, very, very few in fact. Some people's reactions are extremely amusing... But nonetheless, I tend to tire after a while of it. Good game. Play you again sometime. Kel, two things, WHEN did I use the present tense? You didn't make that clear. Secondly, it is possible. It's just the resources required to make it work would be inordinately large for it to have any overall benefit. AM, no, I just pride myself on me, when I say something that is of my own design, being right about it. Besides, if no-one took up the argument, then you would believe without thinking. You may still do, but there's a chance. -------------------- I like to say quack because I can, I like to say moooo because I can, but I don't like saying ergle flmp because I can never pronounce phenomenon first try. In conclusion, quack, moooo and phenonemenonmenonnon... Oh Poo. http://s4.invisionfree.com/Ultimate_RP/index.php Try it! Posts: 1487 | Registered: Sunday, February 10 2002 08:00 |
|
Off With Their Heads
Member # 4045
|
written Friday, May 14 2004 19:54
Profile
Homepage
quote:In the post under discussion, the one that I quoted in my last comment on your ideas. Specifically, quote:The verb "is" is the *present tense* active indicative third-person conjugation of the verb "to be." quote:So it's possible, huh? How? How do you propose to create this method? How do you propose to succeed where the greatest minds of the past several centuries have failed? How do you, a fifteen-year-old who can't spell, propose to outdo the greatest psychologists, sociologists, biologists, cognitive scientists, economists, statisticians, and politicians alive today? Go ahead. Tell me. Even if people wanted to create a method for predicting people's behavior to the ten-thousandths decimal place, how could it be done? Alec is still correct that one is practicing sophistry if one knows that a point is wrong and argues in favor of it anyway. That is the practice from which the term came, from the ancient Greek Sophists, masters of rhetoric who could (and did) argue in favor of anything. quote:And yet you don't shut up about it. How hypocritical. -------------------- Kelandon's Pink and Pretty Page!! (The home of BoA's HLPM v1.1!) Rate my scenarios! Northern Kingdom 0: Prologue High Level Party Maker Posts: 7968 | Registered: Saturday, February 28 2004 08:00 |
|
Agent
Member # 618
|
written Saturday, May 15 2004 01:39
Profile
Homepage
You see, the point is that I AM leaving this alone now. In fact, if you would stop being so hyper-aggressive and come down from your severe inflated-ego complex, then you might actually notice this. But I can still spell better than you... EDIT: because you are SO fond of them, Chambers dictionary definition, a direct quote: sophism (sof'izm), n a plausibly deceptive fallacy, soph'ist a capitious or intentionally fallacious reasoner; orig. one of a class of public teachers of rhetoric, philosophy, etc. in ancient Greece. Argue with Chambers if you want, but stop being so capitious. So how about YOU shut up about SOMETHING for once?[ Saturday, May 15, 2004 01:53: Message edited by: FatBatMonkey ] -------------------- I like to say quack because I can, I like to say moooo because I can, but I don't like saying ergle flmp because I can never pronounce phenomenon first try. In conclusion, quack, moooo and phenonemenonmenonnon... Oh Poo. http://s4.invisionfree.com/Ultimate_RP/index.php Try it! Posts: 1487 | Registered: Sunday, February 10 2002 08:00 |
|
Off With Their Heads
Member # 4045
|
written Saturday, May 15 2004 03:29
Profile
Homepage
What flames! While I admit that my last post was rather hostile, for which I apologize, it did contain arguments, in addition to things that could be interpreted as personal attacks. Yours contained only personal attacks. I did check the definition of sophistry before I made that post. Alec's usage is still right. That doesn't mean your definition is wrong. That just means you need not have corrected him. And I challenge your statement that you can spell better than me. Find an instance of me mispelling anything. I would be interested to know. (Bear in mind that I am an American, so spelling words like "color" without the U is correct for me.) For the record, this means that you have TWO questions to answer at this point, namely: how do you propose to create a method for predicting people's behavior that will work well enough to design a governing system around it, and when have I ever mispelled anything? If you ignore one of them (as you are wont to do), I will assume that you don't have an answer. EDIT: By the way, the reason that I don't shut up about things is that I don't get tired of discussing them. I just wonder about someone who repeatedly says, "This is my last post in this topic," "This is my final word on the subject," and other statements to that effect, but then continues to post. I'm fine talking for about things until the mods come in and lock the topic. EDIT 2: Come to think of it, that wasn't entirely fair. The sophistry thing could've been construed as a point of some kind. It just wasn't related to the central issue of discussion. [ Saturday, May 15, 2004 03:46: Message edited by: Pronounced Kel-LAN-don ] -------------------- Kelandon's Pink and Pretty Page!! (The home of BoA's HLPM v1.1!) Rate my scenarios! Northern Kingdom 0: Prologue High Level Party Maker Posts: 7968 | Registered: Saturday, February 28 2004 08:00 |
|
Shock Trooper
Member # 455
|
written Saturday, May 15 2004 07:19
Profile
Kel: attend to "mispelled" and its friends. Also: your taxonomy of modes of address might suit the question better were it expanded to encompass "tedious prat with gerbils for brains." [ Saturday, May 15, 2004 11:28: Message edited by: Boots ] -------------------- Winter comes: game over -- he's in the driveway removing snow with a flame-thrower. Posts: 265 | Registered: Saturday, December 29 2001 08:00 |
|
This Side Towards Enemy
Member # 3098
|
written Saturday, May 15 2004 08:45
Profile
But that would suggest both that the target is both as smart as several gerbils and possessed of particularly nutritious brain matter... -------------------- "I particularly like the part where he claims not to know what self-aggrandisement means, then demands more wing-wongs up his virgin ass" Posts: 961 | Registered: Thursday, June 12 2003 07:00 |