Spiderweb Newbie Looking to Find a Good RPG to Begin With

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AuthorTopic: Spiderweb Newbie Looking to Find a Good RPG to Begin With
Apprentice
Member # 4095
Profile #0
Hey everyone,

I just found out about Spiderweb Software and it looks fun as heck! The games offered by Spiderweb look terrific, they really remind me of the great Ultima games! My only question though is which series do you think I should start with? Also, should I play the first game in a series instead of starting with the sequel? Is there a continuing story in the sequels? Thanks a bunch for the advice, I can't wait to get started, I'm glad I found these RPGs. IMAGE(smile000.gif)
Posts: 2 | Registered: Sunday, March 14 2004 08:00
BANNED
Member # 4
Profile Homepage #1
Blades of Exile is basically the best game they've put out thusfar, although I might suggest that you try out Exiles 1-3 to familiarize yourself with the setup. And another warning- do NOT equate the pre-packaged scenarios' quality with the quality of all scenarios.

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Streila Spies
Unbalanced Accounts
Inn of Blades
Echoes
Echoes: Assault
Echoes: Black Horse
Echoes: Pawns
Bandits
Echoes: Combat/Skirmish
Two Strands
Bandits II: Ballad of the Red Star
Roses of Reckoning (BoE)
Corporeus
The Claim
Roses of Reckoning (BoA)
Nebulous Times Hence
Posts: 6936 | Registered: Tuesday, September 18 2001 07:00
...b10010b...
Member # 869
Profile Homepage #2
If you don't mind 2D tile-based graphics, Exile 2. If you prefer isometric graphics, Nethergate. If you want something a little different, Geneforge. If you decide you like the Exile engine, get Blades of Exile for sure, but I wouldn't recommend trying it out first; the BoE demo isn't very representative.

There's a continuing story between members of each series (the Avernum series is just a remake of the Exile series with a new engine, by the way), but in any case, I wouldn't recommend starting with Exile 1, or you just might be scared away from the Exile series.

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I believe there are 15 747 724 136 275 002 577 105 653 961 181 555 468 044 717 914 527 116 709 366 231 425 076 185 631 031 296 protons in the universe, and the same number of electrons. -- Sir Arthur Eddington
Posts: 9973 | Registered: Saturday, March 30 2002 08:00
Agent
Member # 1104
Profile Homepage #3
Well, for Avernum and Exile it's better if you play them chronologically because it does have a continuing story. For Geneforge, it really isn't necessary, since you basically just start a whole new game in Geneforge 2.

With which series to start, it all depends. Although I'm more of an Avernum fan, Geneforge is a great series to start with because it has better graphics and interface. If you're looking for a game where you can explore lots of dungeons and such, go for Avernum.

The exile series are the exact duplicate of Avernum, except they are older and have 2-d graphics.

Blades of Exile is like Exile, but you get to create your own scenarios and let others play them.

Blades of Avernum should be out pretty soon is like Blades of Exile, except of course with 3-d graphics.

I've never played nethergate, so I don't know much about it.

Galactic Core and Homeland are the games to stay away from.

SubTerra is pretty fun, if you like puzzles.

EDIT: Put in BoE & BoA

[ Sunday, March 14, 2004 18:21: Message edited by: The Adept Erudite ]

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Chance Forums
Posts: 1307 | Registered: Tuesday, May 7 2002 07:00
Apprentice
Member # 4095
Profile #4
quote:
Originally written by The Adept Erudite:

Well, for Avernum and Exile it's better if you play them chronologically because it does have a continuing story. For Geneforge, it really isn't necessary, since you basically just start a whole new game in Geneforge 2.EDIT: Put in BoE & BoA
Have you ever played Gothic 1 & 2? Is it like those games where Gothic 2 starts the character fresh and doesn't really require you to know the story in Gothic 1 although it helps?
Posts: 2 | Registered: Sunday, March 14 2004 08:00
Guardian
Member # 3521
Profile #5
As others have mentioned, if you can deal with the 2-D interface of the Exile series, Exile 2 or BoE might be the best pick. If you prefer the isometric design, however, I would recommend Nethergate first, as it's my personal favorite, although Avernum is quite good as well. Geneforge was quite a bit of fun, especially at first, as it's quite a novelty. However, the GF games tend to not be quite as complex or interesting as the others. But they're good fun and as good a place as any to start, as RC said. But in terms of the order in which to play the GF series, I would recommend playing the two games in order. This isn't essential to understanding the storylines, but both games just tend to seem more enjoyable when they're played in order.

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Stughalf

"The death-knell of the republic had rung as soon as the active power became lodged in the hands of those who sought, not to do justice to all citizens, rich and poor alike, but to stand for one special class and for its interests as opposed to the interests of others."- Theodore Roosevelt, 1903.
Posts: 1798 | Registered: Sunday, October 5 2003 07:00
BANNED
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You people are all heretics, I say! If it wasn't for BoE, I'd have bolted years ago- much less come in the first place. Don't even *consider* comparing E2 and BoE- there is no comparison in the fact that BoE is vastly superior, but also in the fact that they are radically different concepts. E2 is one continuous story. BoE is lots of far better ones that are written better, have better graphics, and actually push the envelope.

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Rate My Scenarios!
Streila Spies
Unbalanced Accounts
Inn of Blades
Echoes
Echoes: Assault
Echoes: Black Horse
Echoes: Pawns
Bandits
Echoes: Combat/Skirmish
Two Strands
Bandits II: Ballad of the Red Star
Roses of Reckoning (BoE)
Corporeus
The Claim
Roses of Reckoning (BoA)
Nebulous Times Hence
Posts: 6936 | Registered: Tuesday, September 18 2001 07:00
Off With Their Heads
Member # 4045
Profile Homepage #7
I recommend starting with Avernum 1 (A1). You don't *need* to know the plotline from A1 to play A2 or A3, but I think it's better to play A1 first. And don't listen to these Exile freaks: Avernum is way better. IMAGE(tongue00.gif) Nethergate isn't widely liked (although I like it a lot), so your odds of liking it are lower than the Avernum series. Geneforge is also great, but more conversation around here centers around the Exile/Avernum plotlines.

So yeah. The best places to start are A1 (beginning of Avernum/Exile plot), A2 (probably the most-liked game), or G1 (beginning of Geneforge series).

And by all means download all the demos. They're huge and you could spend many hours just playing through them alone.

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Posts: 7968 | Registered: Saturday, February 28 2004 08:00
La Canaliste
DELETED
Member # 21
Profile #8
*Agrees with Kelandon*
Avernum 1 is the best place to start, then progress to the other Avernums.
The Exile tile system is harder to live with, I think. From what I know of Ultima, you are right in thinking there is a lot in common, not least a quirky humour.

Anyway, download the demo, see if you like it, and if not, you have lost nothing. If you do like it, you can unlock the rest of the game by buying the key code...

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KazeArctica: Oh yes.
KazeArctica: Oh YES
Posts: 93 | Registered: Sunday, September 30 2001 22:00
Shock Trooper
Member # 455
Profile #9
With the possible exception of the Blades of Exile scenario A Small Rebellion, Nethergate is Jeff Vogel's best work. I'd say start with it, then wade through the pre-packaged Blades scenarios, then try out some of the better third party offerings for Blades, and, in so doing, learn that TM is right.

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Winter comes: game over -- he's in the driveway removing snow with a flame-thrower.
Posts: 265 | Registered: Saturday, December 29 2001 08:00
Triad Mage
Member # 7
Profile Homepage #10
Blades of Exile will be the best $30 you've ever spent.

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"At times discretion should be thrown aside, and with the foolish we should play the fool." - Menander
====
Drakefyre's Demesne - Vahnatai Did Do It
desperance.net - We're Everywhere
The Arena - God Will Sort The Dead
====
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Posts: 9436 | Registered: Wednesday, September 19 2001 07:00
La Canaliste
DELETED
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Profile #11
Blades scenarios are rather more an expression of the creativity of individuals, while the Avernum series is a coherent world. You can point out that there are sagas in Blades, but each of those belongs to an individual.

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KazeArctica: Oh yes.
KazeArctica: Oh YES
Posts: 93 | Registered: Sunday, September 30 2001 22:00
Guardian
Member # 3521
Profile #12
quote:
Originally written by Drakefyre:

Blades of Exile will be the best $30 you've ever spent.
Or the best $15, if you choose to buy another game and take advantage of the BoE/Nethergate promotional offer.

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Stughalf

"The death-knell of the republic had rung as soon as the active power became lodged in the hands of those who sought, not to do justice to all citizens, rich and poor alike, but to stand for one special class and for its interests as opposed to the interests of others."- Theodore Roosevelt, 1903.
Posts: 1798 | Registered: Sunday, October 5 2003 07:00
This Side Towards Enemy
Member # 3098
Profile #13
If you've got the cash, spend $45 on Nethergate and Blades of Exile. You won't regret it.

Blades of Exile is undoubtedly the best game, but it's probably not the best idea to start there. Whilst Nethergate is the strongest plotwise, it's also a little smaller than the Exiles and Avernums. Depending what your attitude to 2D graphics is, you might want to begin with Exile 2 and Blades of Exile instead, or the graphics might put you off (although some of BoE's custom graphics are brilliantly done.)

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"I particularly like the part where he claims not to know what self-aggrandisement means, then demands more wing-wongs up his virgin ass"
Posts: 961 | Registered: Thursday, June 12 2003 07:00
Law Bringer
Member # 335
Profile Homepage #14
The nice thing about Spiderweb is that the demos show you exactly what you get for your money, except for BoE. If you have a decent internet connection and some time on your hands, download all the demos of games suggested here.

?Alorael, who suggests looking into BoE after trying out E3. If you like the engine, BoE is a great buy. If you can't stand the E3 engine, you probably won't like any of the scenarios no matter how good their plots are.
Posts: 14579 | Registered: Saturday, December 1 2001 08:00
Shock Trooper
Member # 461
Profile #15
Well, I prefer Avernum over Exile. You don't really HAVE to start with Avernum 1 - Avernum 2 explains the important stuff, though avernum 1 does help a little. Avernum 2 has better interface (such as the quest list) and a more coherent storyline. Avernum 3 I'd rank above Avernum 1, but it really is too easy - even on torment difficulty, you have to handicap yourself for the game to be anything resembling a challenge.

Blades of Avernum I haven't played yet (only out on mac), but it will probably be awesome. However, if you're not interested in designing scenarios, you should probably wait until a few more scenarios are made before you buy it.

Geneforge is probably the most original, and has the best graphics and the best storyline. Geneforge 2 is better, but you really should play Geneforge 1 first because the story explains a lot of stuff in GF2.

Nethergate is unique and fun, but not quite as in-depth as the Avernums. The interesting thing about Nethergate is that you can choose one of two sides at the beginning: Romans or Celts. Each side has different strengths, and it's the same story, but it's told from different points of view. For example, a town might be a friendly place to shop, rest, and talk as the celts, but as the Romans it's a battleground.

The exiles I can't really reccomend over the Avernums. IMO Avernum has it beat in most areas, I think the only real advantage exile has is a lot of cool spells that Avernum doesn't have. BoE maybe, but BoA will is already out on Mac and will soon be out on PC.

Overall, here's how I'd rank the non-exiles that I've played:
Avernum 2
Geneforge 2
Geneforge
Nethergate
Avernum 3
Avernum

Download the demos and see for yourself. They don't cripple gameplay at all, just restrict exploration.

[ Saturday, March 20, 2004 07:21: Message edited by: Jawaj ]

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"If you held a weapon to Fwiffo's head, he would say anything you wanted him to. In fact, if you held a vegetable to Fwiffo's head, he'd say whatever you wanted him to." - Spathi high council, Star Control 2.
Posts: 346 | Registered: Sunday, December 30 2001 08:00
BoE Posse
Member # 112
Profile #16
BoA will not be superior to BoE until 60+ great scenarios have been made for it.

It costs 30 bucks to register BoE, and there's enough gametime there to last you a few years. Seriously.

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Rate my scenarios!

Areni
Revenge
To Live in Fear
Deadly Goblins
Ugantan Nightmare
Isle of Boredom
Posts: 1423 | Registered: Sunday, October 7 2001 07:00
Infiltrator
Member # 1877
Profile #17
I still would recomend BOA. In my opinion its much more user-friendly.

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Posts: 662 | Registered: Friday, September 13 2002 07:00
Babelicious
Member # 3149
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(too tired to rewrite this)

[19:11:40] MBoehX: "I still would recomend BOA. In my opinion its much more user-friendly."
[19:11:47] MBoehX: -- 'We called it Sin'
[19:12:07] MBoehX: when faced with the reality that BoE has dozens of great scenarios
[19:12:23] MBoehX: and BoA has, uh... a remake of Small Rebellion :-p
[19:12:23] UWImban: Much... much more user-friendly?
[19:12:28] UWImban: TM KILLS HIM
[19:12:33] MBoehX: For playing, I suppose.
[19:12:58] MBoehX: But by Exile 3 and BoE, the Exile playstyle was pretty polished. I found them to be extremely playable.
[19:13:13] UWImban: Yeah.
[19:13:19] MBoehX: And games aren't "user-friendly."
[19:13:27] UWImban: Oh?
[19:13:36] MBoehX: No. They're "playable." There's a difference.
[19:13:42] UWImban: Explain, then?
[19:13:53] UWImban: I mean, is it more of a semantic difference?
[19:14:00] MBoehX: A game can be very simple and usable, but it might be a ***** to actually do anything in it :-p
[19:14:00] UWImban: err, more than a
[19:14:10] UWImban: Oh. And then it's not playable? IMAGE(tongue00.gif)
[19:14:22] MBoehX: It's pretty much a semantic difference. User-friendly connotes a productive use.
[19:14:23] UWImban: *has this problem with Shin SRW* IMAGE(tongue00.gif)
[19:14:45] UWImban: Game's a ***** to play because of the load times on the battle scenes which can't be skipped
[19:14:51] MBoehX: That it's easy to use. You don't really "use" games, you play them.
[19:15:02] MBoehX: Exactly. That's a playability issue, not a "user friendliness" issue.
[19:15:14] MBoehX: I mean, some games have puzzles. That's CERTAINLY not user-friendly.
[19:15:31] UWImban: :-p
[19:15:34] MBoehX: A user-friendly game would be two buttons.
[19:15:42] UWImban: One makes you win, one makes you lose? IMAGE(tongue00.gif)
[19:15:42] MBoehX: One says "WIN" and the other says "DIE HORRIBLY"
[19:16:02] MBoehX: I find E3 to be probably the most playable SW game.
[19:16:08] UWImban: Oh?
[19:16:22] MBoehX: Yes. I mean, it's not very good for a number of issues, but the UI is pretty polished.
[19:16:28] MBoehX: E1 tends to discourage lots of people.

Don't listen to the Avernum commies. I bet they think VII's the best Final Fantasy, too.

And, for that matter, that FFX is better than Fallout just because FFX has 512-BIT HIGH-RES TEXTURES OF BEAR-GROPERY IN ALL THREE GLORIOUS DIMENSIONS.

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Beatoff Valley: A story told out of order.
Posts: 999 | Registered: Friday, June 27 2003 07:00
Shock Trooper
Member # 3898
Profile #19
Bah. You don't talk about the graphics. Graphics are and always will be a luxury. And Fallout is and always will be better. But the Avernum games are just a bit more fleshed-out, a bit more realistic, a bit more fun to play. And a bit easier to manage without 6 differnt chars in a party. And without those annoying conveyor belts.

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~Note : The professional newbie's advice should not be taken seriously, or at all.~
Posts: 364 | Registered: Saturday, January 17 2004 08:00
Triad Mage
Member # 7
Profile Homepage #20
Well, in terms of the scenario editor, BoE's is more user-friendly.

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"At times discretion should be thrown aside, and with the foolish we should play the fool." - Menander
====
Drakefyre's Demesne - Vahnatai Did Do It
desperance.net - We're Everywhere
The Arena - God Will Sort The Dead
====
You can take my Mac when you pry my cold, dead fingers off the mouse!
Posts: 9436 | Registered: Wednesday, September 19 2001 07:00
BoE Posse
Member # 112
Profile #21
Let's put it this way. Say you saw a DVD player and a VHS player for sale. There were very few movies available on DVD at this point, and very old films were going to be transferred to DVD - probably none of the great classics of cinema. Assuming a similar price, which is better value?

There's no reason you can't have both. But, at this stage, BoE is a much, much better buy.

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Rate my scenarios!

Areni
Revenge
To Live in Fear
Deadly Goblins
Ugantan Nightmare
Isle of Boredom
Posts: 1423 | Registered: Sunday, October 7 2001 07:00
Shaper
Member # 3442
Profile Homepage #22
I can't wait for BoA. I give it until summertime, which incidentally is when it is released on PC, to have a number of good scenarios. By then, it should be good enough to compete with BoE.

And having never registered BoE, I can't say much about it. Sure, the ideas great, but for a newbie, Nethergate and Avernum are much better. Geneforge's engine seemed a bit hard for my to adjust to - I was not used to "real-time" at first, which may put of Newbies.

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Thus endeth this post.
Posts: 2864 | Registered: Monday, September 8 2003 07:00
Shock Trooper
Member # 461
Profile #23
Maaya, if graphics were the only reason I thought Avernum was better, then I wouldn't be playing Spiderweb games! I don't even like the newer Final Fantasy games - lately, Square has just been pumping out semi-crap that sells just because it's Final Fantasy. The exile 3 demo was my first spiderweb game, but I like Avernum a lot better. The only real advantage exile has is the spells, but I think Avernum's improvements make up for that. I played exile 3 demo first, but once I found Avernum, I thought it was much better.

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"If you held a weapon to Fwiffo's head, he would say anything you wanted him to. In fact, if you held a vegetable to Fwiffo's head, he'd say whatever you wanted him to." - Spathi high council, Star Control 2.
Posts: 346 | Registered: Sunday, December 30 2001 08:00
Triad Mage
Member # 7
Profile Homepage #24
Supanik - You'll have to wait at least a year or 18 months before there are a complement of good or decent scenarios.

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"At times discretion should be thrown aside, and with the foolish we should play the fool." - Menander
====
Drakefyre's Demesne - Vahnatai Did Do It
desperance.net - We're Everywhere
The Arena - God Will Sort The Dead
====
You can take my Mac when you pry my cold, dead fingers off the mouse!
Posts: 9436 | Registered: Wednesday, September 19 2001 07:00

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