Religion
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Shock Trooper
Member # 3022
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written Sunday, February 8 2004 10:02
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I find the theory credible, and the evidence persuasive, but to *believe* in it would undermine the whole point of being atheist, no? Posts: 269 | Registered: Saturday, May 24 2003 07:00 |
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Agent
Member # 1104
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written Sunday, February 8 2004 12:39
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quote:I don't think it's the big bang theory anymore as much as it is the nothingness fluctuating into a buble and making everything theory. -------------------- 73|-| 1|\|\/1|\|<1|3|_3 |30063y|\/|4|\| AHEM: Chance Forums! -Reality Corp. Posts: 1307 | Registered: Tuesday, May 7 2002 07:00 |
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Bob's Big Date
Member # 3151
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written Sunday, February 8 2004 13:22
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quote:I don't think it's the big bang theory anymore as much as it is the nothingness fluctuating into a buble and making everything theory.[/quote]That really doesn't make any sense, and I'm not just being a pissant here; I can't make heads nor tails of it. You care to elaborate? -------------------- In a word, gay. --Bob the Impaler Posts: 2367 | Registered: Friday, June 27 2003 07:00 |
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Shock Trooper
Member # 3022
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written Sunday, February 8 2004 13:36
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"Bang" has a big tendency to set up a strawman. Typically, when a physicist is talking about the Big Bang, they mean the period of rapid inflation that occured just after the appearance of the universe, which has been hypothesised to be a quantum fluctuation. The phrase Big Bang gives the false impression that (a) something was there before the existence of the universe - and time itself, and (b) that the thing is a conventional explosion, which it really isn't, and (c) there is neccessarily something outside, which the universe expanded into. IIRC, the phrase was invented as an insult, but it stuck. Posts: 269 | Registered: Saturday, May 24 2003 07:00 |
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Law Bringer
Member # 335
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written Sunday, February 8 2004 14:09
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It's also quite possible to believe that the Big Bang theory is plausible and believe in God at the same time. The theory doesn't work if you believe that the Bible is literally true, but many people fit in comfortably between atheism and literalism. —Alorael, who is one of those people. If God exists, He made the universe somehow. The Big Bang is no more far-fetched than performative power, and it's much flashier. Posts: 14579 | Registered: Saturday, December 1 2001 08:00 |
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Agent
Member # 1104
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written Sunday, February 8 2004 14:21
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To Alec: http://www.2think.org/nothingness.shtml http://www.bu.edu/wcp/Papers/Meta/MetaSuch.htm - Section VI specifically. Anyways, it talks about the quantum fluctuation of nothingness, and how the big bang might have or might have not been the cause to the beginning of the universe, which brings up another point...what is nothingness? How can the human mind even comprehend what nothing is if it's nothing? You can probably imagine space, but space is something, nothing is nothing...so how can you prove that all this fluctuation happened when a fluctuation is something, and something could not have existed unless it was made... (Headache) As for the big bang theory, it states that everything came out of a point of singularity, which is not nothing but something but that's beside the point. The singularity spun around in one direction and blew up. Now, if that was true, why do we have two planets spinning in opposite directions apart from all the other planets? (This goes for some moons on some of the planets as well). -------------------- 73|-| 1|\|\/1|\|<1|3|_3 |30063y|\/|4|\| AHEM: Chance Forums! -Reality Corp. Posts: 1307 | Registered: Tuesday, May 7 2002 07:00 |
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Shock Trooper
Member # 3022
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written Sunday, February 8 2004 14:24
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Well, my point before is that I have a problem with using the word belief with regards to a scientific theory. If you "believe" in the BB, what difference is there from believing in God, except the name? As a theory, what makes your attitude scientific is your willingness to question it, to disbelieve it. Posts: 269 | Registered: Saturday, May 24 2003 07:00 |
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Shock Trooper
Member # 3801
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written Sunday, February 8 2004 16:11
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Hmmm. I thought the big bang was when an asteroid collided into another asteroid and created the earth. Shows how much I know... -------------------- There is no knowledge that is not power. Take a chance at the Chance Forums! Posts: 323 | Registered: Thursday, December 18 2003 08:00 |
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Bob's Big Date
Member # 3151
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written Sunday, February 8 2004 16:37
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quote:Captain Parallax strikes again! From our perspective, moons and planets rotate in different directions. From the perspective of the SBH at the center of the Milky Way galaxy, the entire solar system, and pretty much the whole spiral arm, is moving the same way. And from the perspective of where it all began, everything is all moving outward at varying speeds greater than zero and less than c -- as opposed to here, where things look to be coming and going like nobody's business. -------------------- In a word, gay. --Bob the Impaler Posts: 2367 | Registered: Friday, June 27 2003 07:00 |
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Agent
Member # 1104
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written Sunday, February 8 2004 16:49
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quote:Yes, they might revolve in the same direction, but they don't rotate in the same direction. If everything in the tiny dot moved in one direction and exploded, everything would still be moving in that direction and rotating in the same direction as well. Kinda like the merry-go-round analogy - if a few kids came on and were being spinned really really fast, and they weren't able to hold on, they would fly off spinning in the same direction as the merry-go-round and would continue flying until either gravity stops them, or a metal pole. But, there really isn't any gravity in space strong enough to change a planet's rotating direction. There is enough gravity, though, to "catch" some moons or make them crash into the bigger object that is pulling them. -------------------- 73|-| 1|\|\/1|\|<1|3|_3 |30063y|\/|4|\| AHEM: Chance Forums! -Reality Corp. Posts: 1307 | Registered: Tuesday, May 7 2002 07:00 |
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Bob's Big Date
Member # 3151
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written Sunday, February 8 2004 17:34
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quote:Yes, they might revolve in the same direction, but they don't rotate in the same direction. If everything in the tiny dot moved in one direction and exploded, everything would still be moving in that direction and rotating in the same direction as well. Kinda like the merry-go-round analogy - if a few kids came on and were being spinned really really fast, and they weren't able to hold on, they would fly off spinning in the same direction as the merry-go-round and would continue flying until either gravity stops them, or a metal pole. But, there really isn't any gravity in space strong enough to change a planet's rotating direction. There is enough gravity, though, to "catch" some moons or make them crash into the bigger object that is pulling them.[/quote]No, no, no. You're working on the old analogy -- centrifugal force, which is a myth. Planetary revolution occurs by centripedal force, which describes a planet's attempts to move in the way it was before against acceleration due to the constant force of gravity. In other words, bodies revolve about one another because there's a force pulling them in, NOT because there's a force pushing them out. (The tangential force isn't strong enough to escape the pull of gravity, otherwise the orbiting body spirals outwards and escapes its orbit.) And everything IS still going the same direction and rotating in the same direction; some have had tangential or opposing forces enacted due to the force of gravity, which is miniscule compared to the initial expansive force, but still extant. Look at it this way: You are in an airplane, and the entire airplane -- air within the cabin and all -- is moving at 300 mph west. You get up and walk 5 mph east. Are you going east? No. Suppose the airplane moves counterrevolutionwise with respect to the rotation of the earth; is it moving in the opposite direction as the earth? No. Scale that up a bit and you have an interesting case of parallax: we are hurtling through the universe at a scientifically sound fraction of c, but we're all doing it, so no one tends to notice. It takes an outside observer to say, "This universe is spinning at such-and-such an angle"; there are no outside observers, obviously. -------------------- In a word, gay. --Bob the Impaler Posts: 2367 | Registered: Friday, June 27 2003 07:00 |