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Originally written by Mind Worm:

City boy. :P

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Originally written by Drew:

It isn't useless, though. It's used in law all the time to prevent bad precedent from taking effect. You give censorship-minded people an inch, and they'll take a yard. You are obviously one such person that would want more censorship applied than just a couple games a year. You'd probably like to see porn banned, right? How about violent movies? And that painting in the National Art Gallery featuring the nude woman sure doesn't seem like art to you...

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Originally written by Trrr's Mrtr:

You're missing a key point- if a book (especially one that horrible) is enough to make people go on murdering streaks, there was clearly something wrong with those individuals to begin with.

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A lot. Hell, now that you mention this, I want to play the game already. Okay, it might be short- but I am hooked to the premise. If made well, it could be a bleak and beautiful poem. In fact, I want to feel both the tension and exhilaration as I plunge the thumbscrews into my next victim, even when he has already answered my question. I want to have a game that does not shy around the mind of a torturer. I want to havea game that will move me to identify with his brutal lust for blood. But not just in the way that I might revel in violence- I want a game that will teach me the fear and pain of the torturer, as well as the vile pleasure he gets from his black art.

And if you're smallminded and meek enough to say that this makes a killer out of me, you are both a reactionary philistine and a vile monster.

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No, it won't be. Have you ever heard of Wal-Mart? Apart from the "strictly voluntary" servitude of Mexicans, they're also responsible for killing off any game that dares to receive a M-O (mature only) rating by not putting it on its shelves. Other retail outlets work in a similar fashion. If a game pushes too many anti-corporate buttons, it is killed instantly since it will never, ever, ever see a place on a shelf. The game about the torture will only exist in my dreams since your precious censorship has killed it before it has even been born.

Not that this prevents blatant and tasteless sexual and brutal pornography from going up on shelves- but that's an argument of taste, not censorship.

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Originally written by Drew:

It is a slippery slope, Ash. Consider the Dark Ages of Western Europe.

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Originally written by Ares:

how can you not like this song

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Originally written by Exiled Eagle - odd twig me sits on.:

Wonder if he still look at pornograpy, now when he got a wife and a daughter. Jeff Vogel is a man, after all. :o

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Originally written by Infernal666hate:

so, did anyone figure out the pattern for those squares?

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Originally written by Drew:

I forgot to include the word "deliberate" in my definition.

A game that's rated "M" for mature is not for children to play.

We're not just talking about children here, though - we're talking about responsible adults. My questions to you are (a) what harm do these games do, and (b) is there any legitimate proof that they do? I think that the answer to both is no. Barring maybe a couple exceptions, most of the consuming market recognizes that these games are fantasy and for entertainment purposes only.

Censorship is a slippery slope, Ash, and it doesn't take much before you're essentially living in North Korea or Utah. Where do you stop? Arguably, Avernum is worthy of censorship because its storyline includes defying authority, drug use, murder, and the occult. How do you feel about that?

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Originally written by spy.there:

Answering to this is a little bit off topic now +_+ oh well.

I talked about games like Need for Speed (illicit speed-driving), Grand Theft Auto (illicit actions), Planet Doom (violence), etc. You could take every 3D Ego shooter with high resolution splatter effects and ban it because of violence and cruelty. But no, the repression goes against drugs.

I would rather ban a game that teaches how to break every rule in traffic. Consider: How big is the chance that a kid playing computergames will one day be a big drug lord? And how big is the chance that the grown up kid will drive a car and buy a weapon? You see what I mean?

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Originally written by Drew:

It isn't a matter of specific situations so much as intent, and in your example, as well as in the case of libel/defamation, false statements are used to cause harm maliciously and recklessly. This is not the case with art, however lurid.

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Originally written by Pien' Kiusanhenki:

E: Illogical. And I'm tired, so I'm sorry if I can't get my brain to focus on a hundred pages of things I should translate just to explain one simple thing. I don't want to do this right now.

Besides. Who in here really cares? You all just want to argue. :\

E: That's not the only 'argument' I have. I could quote hundreds of words on these subjects, but I'm tired. I don't believe it would do you any good. You wouldn't believe, no matter what. This, this here what I'm doing? I think is futile.

I'm not even here to argue, I'm here because I care about these things and it hurts me to see someone getting so much wrong. All of you have potential. Don't you want a happy life? If there's no afterlife, wouldn't you rather live forever? Why can't you .. why not? :(

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Originally written by Pien' Kiusanhenki:

Alright, fine. This is a shortcut, because I'm running out of patience, and no that's necessarily a good thing, but I'm tired so that's what you get.
Mind you, the CD's from 1999, because my friend could unfortunately not find the newer one they have. Must get my own some time soon.

Go here and read.

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