Riddles & Brain Teasers

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AuthorTopic: Riddles & Brain Teasers
Or else o'erleap.
Law Bringer
Member # 335
 written Monday, October 31 2005 17:06 Profile Homepage #100
quote:
Originally written by Explode Thuryl Now:

"Language".
I agree! Actually, I could disagree too

—Alorael, who had to think for a few minutes before he realized that Thuryl had answered, not corrected. In the process he also discovered how to disagree by agreement.
Posts: 14579 | Registered: Saturday, December 1 2001 08:00
Erika Maroonmark
Shock Trooper
Member # 5969
 written Monday, October 31 2005 17:48 Profile #101
*Nods.* The first part is meant to be a red herring. There's also a version that goes "What is the third word?" and you're supposed to say "Okay, yeah, it is," like the "How long is a Chinaman?" jokeriddlething.

[ Monday, October 31, 2005 17:49: Message edited by: Explore the Surface Now ]

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A C, an E flat, and a G walk into the Tower of the Magi.
Ambrin runs up to them and says, "Hey, look! It's the Triad!"
Kelner snorts and says "Pretty minor Triad if you ask me."
Posts: 242 | Registered: Thursday, June 16 2005 07:00
Or else o'erleap.
Law Bringer
Member # 335
 written Monday, October 31 2005 18:36 Profile Homepage #102
But you haven't said which answer was right, mine or Thuryl's!

—Alorael, who has heard several variations on this riddle. The trick isn't finding an answer, it's finding the answer that the asker is expecting.
Posts: 14579 | Registered: Saturday, December 1 2001 08:00
Erika Maroonmark
Shock Trooper
Member # 5969
 written Monday, October 31 2005 19:18 Profile #103
I thought you both said it was "language". >< That's my personal favourite variant of the riddle and the one I was setting up by saying "There are three words in 'the English language'".

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A C, an E flat, and a G walk into the Tower of the Magi.
Ambrin runs up to them and says, "Hey, look! It's the Triad!"
Kelner snorts and says "Pretty minor Triad if you ask me."
Posts: 242 | Registered: Thursday, June 16 2005 07:00
Zeviz
Nuke and Pave
Member # 24
 written Tuesday, November 1 2005 08:38 Profile Homepage #104
Looks like I missed the logico-phylosophical discussion of the red-eyed-monk problem. If I was here, I would have said that the new information given by the tourist is the timing:

If the monks have all heard the order to kill themselves at the same time and saw all the eyes at the same time, tourist's statement would be irrelevant. So we have to assume that the rulling was communicated to monks separately and/or they didn't all meet together on the day of the rulling. So they didn't know what to count as day 1 for their regression. When the tourist makes the statement about eyes, presumably all the monks take that as a cue to start counting from that day.

However, a much more logical version of the puzzle is the one where tribesmen on an island one day hear the volcano god's voice from the volcano telling both the order for red-eyed ones to kill themselves and the fact that there are red-eyed one.

PS About writing out the number of levels of "everybody knows that everybody knows that everybody knows...", there are N levels needed for N red-eyed people. However, when the tourist (or the volcano god) states the information while everybody is in the room, that creates infinite level of "everybody knows that everybody knows that..." so for all practical reasons people just assume "they know", without explicitly thinking of all the levels required. (Just like when you say "green" you just assume a certain color, instead of thinking of every possible shade of green.)

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Be careful with a word, as you would with a sword,
For it too has the power to kill.
However well placed word, unlike a well placed sword,
Can also have the power to heal.
Posts: 2649 | Registered: Wednesday, October 3 2001 07:00
Or else o'erleap.
Law Bringer
Member # 335
 written Tuesday, November 1 2005 08:48 Profile Homepage #105
While I acknowledge that Thuryl's answer works, the suffix "-gry," pronounced "gree," ends the words hungry, angry, agree, disagree, pedigree... and so on.

—Alorael, who doesn't use pedigree every day. He uses agree and disagree a lot, although he's actually rather fond of concurring instead.
Posts: 14579 | Registered: Saturday, December 1 2001 08:00
Khoth
Post Navel Trauma ^_^
Member # 67
 written Tuesday, November 1 2005 10:59 Profile Homepage #106
If they all heard the order and saw the eyes at the same time, nothing would happen.

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Barcoorah: I even did it to a big dorset ram.

desperance.net - Don't follow this link
Posts: 1798 | Registered: Thursday, October 4 2001 07:00
Ash Lael
E Equals MC What!!!!
Member # 5491
 written Tuesday, November 1 2005 11:32 Profile Homepage #107
Guys, don't do this to me.

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Sex is easier than love.
Posts: 1861 | Registered: Friday, February 11 2005 08:00
radix malorum est cupiditas
Lifecrafter
Member # 6403
 written Thursday, November 3 2005 07:37 Profile #108
so, did anyone figure out the pattern for those squares?

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I've remained focused on what i believe in, which is melodic metal. It's not just a passing phase, it's a way of life!
-Jon Schaffer

And when I laugh it's tears I hide
And when I cry it's joy inside
A foul disease has stained the land
The bitter harvest of a dying bloom
And when I cry it's joy inside
A wicked smile for all the tears I hide
It hurts to hold all the pain I feel
The bitter harvest of a dying bloom
Posts: 883 | Registered: Wednesday, October 19 2005 07:00
Zeviz
Nuke and Pave
Member # 24
 written Thursday, November 3 2005 09:25 Profile Homepage #109
I tried, but 7 x 7 is too big to brute-forse, so I got stuck looking for a more efficient way to do it.

Khoth, why would nothing happen? That's the exact setup of the version of red-eyed-people puzzle I've heard first. (Or is this version forget to mention that they have to kill themselves at a certain time of day?)

--------------------
Be careful with a word, as you would with a sword,
For it too has the power to kill.
However well placed word, unlike a well placed sword,
Can also have the power to heal.
Posts: 2649 | Registered: Wednesday, October 3 2001 07:00
Khoth
Post Navel Trauma ^_^
Member # 67
 written Thursday, November 3 2005 23:41 Profile Homepage #110
You seemed to be implying that if they all heard that all red-eyed monks must kill themselves at the same time as they could see that other monks had rd eyes, then they would all kill themselves.

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Barcoorah: I even did it to a big dorset ram.

desperance.net - Don't follow this link
Posts: 1798 | Registered: Thursday, October 4 2001 07:00
saunders
La Canaliste
Member # 5563
 written Friday, November 4 2005 03:14 Profile #111
I think the German had the fish.
But don't trust me on that.

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I am a pale shadow of the previous self.
quote:

Deep down, you know you should have voted for Alcritas!
Posts: 387 | Registered: Tuesday, March 1 2005 08:00
Ash Lael
E Equals MC What!!!!
Member # 5491
 written Friday, November 4 2005 03:53 Profile Homepage #112
quote:
Originally written by Infernal666hate:

so, did anyone figure out the pattern for those squares?
The extremely low and extremely high numbers go on the edges. The closer to the average they are, the closer to the center of the square.

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Sex is easier than love.
Posts: 1861 | Registered: Friday, February 11 2005 08:00
Arancaytar
Law Bringer
Member # 2984
 written Friday, November 4 2005 04:30 Profile Homepage #113
quote:
Originally written by Halloweenorael:

While I acknowledge that Thuryl's answer works, the suffix "-gry," pronounced "gree," ends the words hungry, angry, agree, disagree, pedigree... and so on.

—Alorael, who doesn't use pedigree every day. He uses agree and disagree a lot, although he's actually rather fond of concurring instead.
A very popular term here on Spiderweb is "approving".

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The Encyclopaedia Ermariana <-- Now a Wiki!
"Polaris leers down from the black vault, winking hideously like an insane watching eye which strives to convey some strange message, yet recalls nothing save that it once had a message to convey." --- HP Lovecraft.
"I single Aran out due to his nasty temperament, and his superior intellect." --- SupaNik
Posts: 8752 | Registered: Wednesday, May 14 2003 07:00
Arancaytar
Law Bringer
Member # 2984
 written Friday, November 4 2005 04:34 Profile Homepage #114
quote:
Originally written by Zeviz:

Looks like I missed the logico-phylosophical discussion of the red-eyed-monk problem. If I was here, I would have said that the new information given by the tourist is the timing:

If the monks have all heard the order to kill themselves at the same time and saw all the eyes at the same time, tourist's statement would be irrelevant. So we have to assume that the rulling was communicated to monks separately and/or they didn't all meet together on the day of the rulling. So they didn't know what to count as day 1 for their regression. When the tourist makes the statement about eyes, presumably all the monks take that as a cue to start counting from that day.

However, a much more logical version of the puzzle is the one where tribesmen on an island one day hear the volcano god's voice from the volcano telling both the order for red-eyed ones to kill themselves and the fact that there are red-eyed one.

PS About writing out the number of levels of "everybody knows that everybody knows that everybody knows...", there are N levels needed for N red-eyed people. However, when the tourist (or the volcano god) states the information while everybody is in the room, that creates infinite level of "everybody knows that everybody knows that..." so for all practical reasons people just assume "they know", without explicitly thinking of all the levels required. (Just like when you say "green" you just assume a certain color, instead of thinking of every possible shade of green.)
No. Presume that the monks know they must kill themselves if they have red eyes. Now presume that there is one red-eyed monk.

He sees all the others have white eyes, but that says nothing. There might just as well be no red-eyed monks at all! So he doesn't do anything.

Now presume there's another red-eyed monk who sees the first one. He thinks the other red-eyed monk is the only red-eyed monk, but also knows that if that is the case, the other red-eyed monk doesn't know he has red eyes. So he knows the other monk has no reason to kill himself.

So when the other monk doesn't kill himself on the first night, there is nothing special about that. He doesn't kill himself on the second night either.

And so on.

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The Encyclopaedia Ermariana <-- Now a Wiki!
"Polaris leers down from the black vault, winking hideously like an insane watching eye which strives to convey some strange message, yet recalls nothing save that it once had a message to convey." --- HP Lovecraft.
"I single Aran out due to his nasty temperament, and his superior intellect." --- SupaNik
Posts: 8752 | Registered: Wednesday, May 14 2003 07:00

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