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move_to_new_town limitation in Blades of Avernum
Shock Trooper
Member # 4180
Profile #5
quote:
Originally written by Eldiran:

Maybe you can use "set_state_continue" to go to another state and then use the call.
That didn't work, at least for EXIT_STATE (the only one I tried). The way it behaves, I'm guessing the party has already left the town (as far as the engine is concerned) before EXIT_STATE is called.

EDIT: I meant to add that START_STATE is called every turn the party is in the town. INIT_STATE is the one called when the party enters the town. So, no, a move_to_new_town() in START_STATE wouldn't be equivalent to variable town entry.

-spyderbytes

[ Sunday, April 11, 2004 15:41: Message edited by: spyderbytes ]

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-spyderbytes
Posts: 200 | Registered: Wednesday, March 31 2004 08:00
scenario criticism in Blades of Avernum
Shock Trooper
Member # 4180
Profile #58
quote:
Originally written by Imban:

A goblin at level 50 still fights like a goblin, after all.
Exactly. To me, at least, there's difficulty and then there's challenge. Difficulty is just skewing the dice rolls against me (or for me on Easy). But it does absolutely nothing (IMO) to add challenge to a scenario. You're still fighting the same number of creatures starting in the same locations, each of which uses exactly the same tactics it did on a lower difficulty setting.

Challenge is up to the scenario designer, and is, in many ways, completely independent of the level of the PCs (though it certainly needs to take level into account). It can also demonstrate itself in ways other than combat (challenging puzzles, for example). If a designer can't make the scenario challenging to me, as opposed to merely difficult, odds are I won't be playing it for long. :)

OTOH, there's such a thing as TOO challenging, AFAIC. After all, I'm playing a game to have fun, not to become hopelessly frustrated. ;)

-spyderbytes

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-spyderbytes
Posts: 200 | Registered: Wednesday, March 31 2004 08:00
creature memory cells? in Blades of Avernum Editor
Shock Trooper
Member # 4180
Profile #4
quote:
Originally written by Isaac:

Why not use a variable? They last as long as you stay in the town, and can hold values up to 32767.
DOH! That's what I get for trying to figure something out when I'm still up at 6:00 am. :D Yeah, that WOULD be the obvious solution, now, wouldn't it? :o

-spyderbytes

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-spyderbytes
Posts: 200 | Registered: Wednesday, March 31 2004 08:00
creature memory cells? in Blades of Avernum
Shock Trooper
Member # 4180
Profile #4
quote:
Originally written by Isaac:

Why not use a variable? They last as long as you stay in the town, and can hold values up to 32767.
DOH! That's what I get for trying to figure something out when I'm still up at 6:00 am. :D Yeah, that WOULD be the obvious solution, now, wouldn't it? :o

-spyderbytes

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-spyderbytes
Posts: 200 | Registered: Wednesday, March 31 2004 08:00
creature memory cells? in Blades of Avernum Editor
Shock Trooper
Member # 4180
Profile #0
How big a value can you stuff into a creature's memory cells? I didn't see it listed in the docs...

I'm looking for (semi-) persistent storage for the game ticks when a certain event happened, and it could easily be bigger than a SDF could hold. Only one creature in one town needs to know when it happened, and I would want it reset if the party leaves that town, anyway.

Anyone have any suggestions, if memory cells won't hold it?

-spyderbytes

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-spyderbytes
Posts: 200 | Registered: Wednesday, March 31 2004 08:00
creature memory cells? in Blades of Avernum
Shock Trooper
Member # 4180
Profile #0
How big a value can you stuff into a creature's memory cells? I didn't see it listed in the docs...

I'm looking for (semi-) persistent storage for the game ticks when a certain event happened, and it could easily be bigger than a SDF could hold. Only one creature in one town needs to know when it happened, and I would want it reset if the party leaves that town, anyway.

Anyone have any suggestions, if memory cells won't hold it?

-spyderbytes

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-spyderbytes
Posts: 200 | Registered: Wednesday, March 31 2004 08:00
bug fix for trap.txt in Blades of Avernum Editor
Shock Trooper
Member # 4180
Profile #0
The trap.txt script doesn't work "out of the box" as stated in the opening comments. It never checks to see if the party has a special item to help disarm it.

To fix it, look for the two spots that say:

if (get_highest_skill(15) < get_mechanism_difficulty()) {
print_str_color("The trap goes off!",2);
and change them to:

if ((get_highest_skill(15) < get_mechanism_difficulty()) && (get_memory_cell(1) == 0 ||
(has_special_item(get_memory_cell(1)) == 0))) {
print_str_color("The trap goes off!",2);
Of course, if you never use a special item for disarming a trap, it won't matter. :)

(NB: It's only the if that changed--I included the next line only to help establish context.)

EDIT: Typo... had a misplaced close parenthesis that would have made the trap always disarm, even without the special item. :o

-spyderbytes

[ Sunday, April 11, 2004 12:55: Message edited by: spyderbytes ]

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-spyderbytes
Posts: 200 | Registered: Wednesday, March 31 2004 08:00
bug fix for trap.txt in Blades of Avernum
Shock Trooper
Member # 4180
Profile #0
The trap.txt script doesn't work "out of the box" as stated in the opening comments. It never checks to see if the party has a special item to help disarm it.

To fix it, look for the two spots that say:

if (get_highest_skill(15) < get_mechanism_difficulty()) {
print_str_color("The trap goes off!",2);
and change them to:

if ((get_highest_skill(15) < get_mechanism_difficulty()) && (get_memory_cell(1) == 0 ||
(has_special_item(get_memory_cell(1)) == 0))) {
print_str_color("The trap goes off!",2);
Of course, if you never use a special item for disarming a trap, it won't matter. :)

(NB: It's only the if that changed--I included the next line only to help establish context.)

EDIT: Typo... had a misplaced close parenthesis that would have made the trap always disarm, even without the special item. :o

-spyderbytes

[ Sunday, April 11, 2004 12:55: Message edited by: spyderbytes ]

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-spyderbytes
Posts: 200 | Registered: Wednesday, March 31 2004 08:00
Typo in Docs: set_attitude in Blades of Avernum Editor
Shock Trooper
Member # 4180
Profile #4
And here's another... the docs say there's a void move_to_loc_x_y(short x, short y). Try to use it, though, and the application tells you it's an unknown call the moment it tries to load the script (both in 1.0 and the new beta).

On a hunch, I shortened the call to move_to_loc(), and the application doesn't complain... until it's ready to run that line of code. Then it tells me wrong number/type of parameters. It doesn't work with the syntax above or move_to_loc(short char, short x, short y) (still wrong number/type).

The really odd thing (of course) is that move_to_loc doesn't exist at all, as far as the docs are concerned. ;) Yet it's there, if one only knew what sort of parms it expects...

So... until this gets sorted out, anyone have any suggestions for getting an NPC to move to a specific location? Waypoints maybe?

-syderbytes

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-spyderbytes
Posts: 200 | Registered: Wednesday, March 31 2004 08:00
Typo in Docs: set_attitude in Blades of Avernum
Shock Trooper
Member # 4180
Profile #4
And here's another... the docs say there's a void move_to_loc_x_y(short x, short y). Try to use it, though, and the application tells you it's an unknown call the moment it tries to load the script (both in 1.0 and the new beta).

On a hunch, I shortened the call to move_to_loc(), and the application doesn't complain... until it's ready to run that line of code. Then it tells me wrong number/type of parameters. It doesn't work with the syntax above or move_to_loc(short char, short x, short y) (still wrong number/type).

The really odd thing (of course) is that move_to_loc doesn't exist at all, as far as the docs are concerned. ;) Yet it's there, if one only knew what sort of parms it expects...

So... until this gets sorted out, anyone have any suggestions for getting an NPC to move to a specific location? Waypoints maybe?

-syderbytes

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-spyderbytes
Posts: 200 | Registered: Wednesday, March 31 2004 08:00
Typo in Docs: set_attitude in Blades of Avernum Editor
Shock Trooper
Member # 4180
Profile #2
Confused me, too. :) I suppose he's saying because it lists it as returning a short when it (in all likelihood, at least) has no return value. I suppose it MIGHT return a 0 or 1 based on success/failure; but if so, the docs don't elaborate.

At any rate, I gather he was searching for something with a void return value, rather than a short.

-spyderbytes

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-spyderbytes
Posts: 200 | Registered: Wednesday, March 31 2004 08:00
Typo in Docs: set_attitude in Blades of Avernum
Shock Trooper
Member # 4180
Profile #2
Confused me, too. :) I suppose he's saying because it lists it as returning a short when it (in all likelihood, at least) has no return value. I suppose it MIGHT return a 0 or 1 based on success/failure; but if so, the docs don't elaborate.

At any rate, I gather he was searching for something with a void return value, rather than a short.

-spyderbytes

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-spyderbytes
Posts: 200 | Registered: Wednesday, March 31 2004 08:00
move_to_new_town limitation in Blades of Avernum Editor
Shock Trooper
Member # 4180
Profile #2
I've never tried using it from a terrain script, but in a town script, it appears to be one of those things that only works from a user-defined state, and not any of the predefined ones. I started a thread here when I was trying to call it from EXIT_STATE and couldn't make it work.

-spyderbytes

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-spyderbytes
Posts: 200 | Registered: Wednesday, March 31 2004 08:00
move_to_new_town limitation in Blades of Avernum
Shock Trooper
Member # 4180
Profile #2
I've never tried using it from a terrain script, but in a town script, it appears to be one of those things that only works from a user-defined state, and not any of the predefined ones. I started a thread here when I was trying to call it from EXIT_STATE and couldn't make it work.

-spyderbytes

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-spyderbytes
Posts: 200 | Registered: Wednesday, March 31 2004 08:00
destroy_char_item only destroys equipped items? in Blades of Avernum Editor
Shock Trooper
Member # 4180
Profile #1
Total shot in the dark here, but could it be choking on empty slots? I'd try putting a check to make sure there's something in the slot in front of the destroy_char_item() call, to see if that helps. If not, it definitely seems like a bug in either the implementation or documentation of the call...

-spyderbytes

EDIT: Left out a word. :o

[ Saturday, April 10, 2004 11:21: Message edited by: spyderbytes ]

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-spyderbytes
Posts: 200 | Registered: Wednesday, March 31 2004 08:00
destroy_char_item only destroys equipped items? in Blades of Avernum
Shock Trooper
Member # 4180
Profile #1
Total shot in the dark here, but could it be choking on empty slots? I'd try putting a check to make sure there's something in the slot in front of the destroy_char_item() call, to see if that helps. If not, it definitely seems like a bug in either the implementation or documentation of the call...

-spyderbytes

EDIT: Left out a word. :o

[ Saturday, April 10, 2004 11:21: Message edited by: spyderbytes ]

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-spyderbytes
Posts: 200 | Registered: Wednesday, March 31 2004 08:00
Calls that we wish existed in Blades of Avernum Editor
Shock Trooper
Member # 4180
Profile #32
I'd like to see either:

A.) A "fade" parameter added to move_to_new_town(), so we could optionally make the screen fade to black before the move and fade from black in the new location; OR (better yet)

B.) fade_to_black() and fade_from_black() added to the cutscene calls.

It's the best way I know of to let the player quickly grasp the cutscene has changed the time and/or location. I can put up a dialog to "fill the gap", but it still feels rather odd to just suddenly be in the new town when you dismiss the dialog.

To "feel" right, in a (more :) ) perfect world, my cutscene needs to fade to black, put up a dialog with brief text about the transition to the new location, then fade back in with the party in the new town.

-spyderbytes

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-spyderbytes
Posts: 200 | Registered: Wednesday, March 31 2004 08:00
Calls that we wish existed in Blades of Avernum
Shock Trooper
Member # 4180
Profile #32
I'd like to see either:

A.) A "fade" parameter added to move_to_new_town(), so we could optionally make the screen fade to black before the move and fade from black in the new location; OR (better yet)

B.) fade_to_black() and fade_from_black() added to the cutscene calls.

It's the best way I know of to let the player quickly grasp the cutscene has changed the time and/or location. I can put up a dialog to "fill the gap", but it still feels rather odd to just suddenly be in the new town when you dismiss the dialog.

To "feel" right, in a (more :) ) perfect world, my cutscene needs to fade to black, put up a dialog with brief text about the transition to the new location, then fade back in with the party in the new town.

-spyderbytes

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-spyderbytes
Posts: 200 | Registered: Wednesday, March 31 2004 08:00
how best to do this? in Blades of Avernum Editor
Shock Trooper
Member # 4180
Profile #2
Yeah, that's what I was trying, but by the time you're in EXIT_STATE, it's too late for the move_to_new_town call to have any effect.

I guess I'll expand my town boundaries by a square and then set up a special encounter running the full distance of them, one square inside. If the party goes that far outside the town gates, I guess I can safely assume they intend to leave instead of just poking around outside the walls. :)

-spyderbytes

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-spyderbytes
Posts: 200 | Registered: Wednesday, March 31 2004 08:00
how best to do this? in Blades of Avernum
Shock Trooper
Member # 4180
Profile #2
Yeah, that's what I was trying, but by the time you're in EXIT_STATE, it's too late for the move_to_new_town call to have any effect.

I guess I'll expand my town boundaries by a square and then set up a special encounter running the full distance of them, one square inside. If the party goes that far outside the town gates, I guess I can safely assume they intend to leave instead of just poking around outside the walls. :)

-spyderbytes

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-spyderbytes
Posts: 200 | Registered: Wednesday, March 31 2004 08:00
how best to do this? in Blades of Avernum Editor
Shock Trooper
Member # 4180
Profile #0
When the party attempts to leave my starting town for the first time, I want them to be, essentially, abducted and forcibly taken to a different town.

I tried using the EXIT_STATE of my town script, but while I can run my nifty little cutscene of the abduction there without a hitch, I can't seem to make the party end up in the other town instead of the outdoors (or ANYWHERE other than the outdoors square they would normally exit to, for that matter).

So... what's the best way to do this? Set up a special encounter on all the squares just inside the town boundary? I don't particularly like that solution, since the party could, at least theoretically, go there and turn around back to the town proper without intentions of exiting.

Anyone have any suggestions for some other way I haven't thought of?

-spyderbytes

--------------------
-spyderbytes
Posts: 200 | Registered: Wednesday, March 31 2004 08:00
how best to do this? in Blades of Avernum
Shock Trooper
Member # 4180
Profile #0
When the party attempts to leave my starting town for the first time, I want them to be, essentially, abducted and forcibly taken to a different town.

I tried using the EXIT_STATE of my town script, but while I can run my nifty little cutscene of the abduction there without a hitch, I can't seem to make the party end up in the other town instead of the outdoors (or ANYWHERE other than the outdoors square they would normally exit to, for that matter).

So... what's the best way to do this? Set up a special encounter on all the squares just inside the town boundary? I don't particularly like that solution, since the party could, at least theoretically, go there and turn around back to the town proper without intentions of exiting.

Anyone have any suggestions for some other way I haven't thought of?

-spyderbytes

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-spyderbytes
Posts: 200 | Registered: Wednesday, March 31 2004 08:00
Article - Choices and Linearity in Blades of Avernum Editor
Shock Trooper
Member # 4180
Profile #13
If you want to assume I'm just some young pup who hasn't earned a right to run with the Big Dogs, fine. I don't know the Sooper Seekrit Handshake(TM) of the local branch of designers, so obviously my viewpoint is worthless. :)

Players don't know what makes a scenario fun? Yeah, I'd agree with that... sometimes. As with any producer/consumer symbiosis, you give your players what they need, not what they say they want, if you want to achieve the most success. But players are durn good at pointing out what's NOT fun (though, of course, the specifics of what's not fun might vary from player to player).

If you've successfully discovered a fanbase by producing scenarios where plot is the end-all and be-all, great and wonderful! Just don't make the mistake of assuming that your fanbase is the entire fanbase of BoE/BoA consumers. Or even that just because no one wrote you and said "this suxxors--there was too much plot!", that every last person who played it thought it was terrific.

I've never advocated phat lewt as a substitute for plot. The irony here is that I'm sure most would place anything I design squarely in the "plot is god" camp, looking at it from the "outside". All I've ever said is that plot CAN BE (and has been, at least according to some) carried too far for the good of the fun of the scenario. I'd agree many game/scenario designers (and especially most first-timers) don't carry it far enough. So telling them plot is the single most important aspect might conceivably spur them to produce a scenario with just about the right amount of it. But that doesn't make it Universal Truth(TM). :)

Also, I never said "outdoors is bad", and if I read TM correctly, he didn't either. TOO MUCH outdoors is bad (as in vast stretches of outdoors with not enough happening in them). By definition 'too much' of ANYTHING is bad (including plot--or even my own 'god', gameplay, which I realize is a rather nebulous term that subsumes most everything, including plot ;) ).

Achieving a proper balance to make a scenario fun is a tricky thing, indeed. If you have a formula that works for achieving balance, more power to you! But don't assume your formula is the only one. :) I stand by my viewpoint that said balance is more important than plot, however, so we'll just have to agree to disagree, I guess. :)

-spyderbytes

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-spyderbytes
Posts: 200 | Registered: Wednesday, March 31 2004 08:00
Article - Choices and Linearity in Blades of Avernum
Shock Trooper
Member # 4180
Profile #13
If you want to assume I'm just some young pup who hasn't earned a right to run with the Big Dogs, fine. I don't know the Sooper Seekrit Handshake(TM) of the local branch of designers, so obviously my viewpoint is worthless. :)

Players don't know what makes a scenario fun? Yeah, I'd agree with that... sometimes. As with any producer/consumer symbiosis, you give your players what they need, not what they say they want, if you want to achieve the most success. But players are durn good at pointing out what's NOT fun (though, of course, the specifics of what's not fun might vary from player to player).

If you've successfully discovered a fanbase by producing scenarios where plot is the end-all and be-all, great and wonderful! Just don't make the mistake of assuming that your fanbase is the entire fanbase of BoE/BoA consumers. Or even that just because no one wrote you and said "this suxxors--there was too much plot!", that every last person who played it thought it was terrific.

I've never advocated phat lewt as a substitute for plot. The irony here is that I'm sure most would place anything I design squarely in the "plot is god" camp, looking at it from the "outside". All I've ever said is that plot CAN BE (and has been, at least according to some) carried too far for the good of the fun of the scenario. I'd agree many game/scenario designers (and especially most first-timers) don't carry it far enough. So telling them plot is the single most important aspect might conceivably spur them to produce a scenario with just about the right amount of it. But that doesn't make it Universal Truth(TM). :)

Also, I never said "outdoors is bad", and if I read TM correctly, he didn't either. TOO MUCH outdoors is bad (as in vast stretches of outdoors with not enough happening in them). By definition 'too much' of ANYTHING is bad (including plot--or even my own 'god', gameplay, which I realize is a rather nebulous term that subsumes most everything, including plot ;) ).

Achieving a proper balance to make a scenario fun is a tricky thing, indeed. If you have a formula that works for achieving balance, more power to you! But don't assume your formula is the only one. :) I stand by my viewpoint that said balance is more important than plot, however, so we'll just have to agree to disagree, I guess. :)

-spyderbytes

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-spyderbytes
Posts: 200 | Registered: Wednesday, March 31 2004 08:00
I cannot believe I did not think of this earlier in Blades of Avernum Editor
Shock Trooper
Member # 4180
Profile #2
Hmmm... yeah, I'd think initialization would become QUITE expensive, especially considering the modest system requirements for the game (any Mac running 8.1 covers a lot of ground, meaning it's going to be running on a fair number of, face it, obsolete boxes).

Still, it's worth bearing in mind for situations where nothing else will do. :)

-spyderbytes

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-spyderbytes
Posts: 200 | Registered: Wednesday, March 31 2004 08:00

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