Profile for spyderbytes
| Field | Value |
|---|---|
| Displayed name | spyderbytes |
| Member number | 4180 |
| Title | Shock Trooper |
| Postcount | 200 |
| Homepage | |
| Registered | Wednesday, March 31 2004 08:00 |
Recent posts
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| Author | Recent posts |
|---|---|
| 1 Character Party with 4 People In in Blades of Avernum | |
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Shock Trooper
Member # 4180
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written Monday, April 12 2004 23:12
Profile
quote:One final point, and then I really will hush and work on my own scenario (which I've been avoiding because I haven't come up with a good enough puzzle for the spot I'm at ;) ): That's not generally what I do, especially if there's an easy way to get a new character to the recommended level (as in the built-in character editor in BoA :) ). I create a brand-spanking new character/party that, from what I know (based on reading the designer's description and Read Me), fits into the scenario's premise. I just want to be able to choose name, race and gender when I do. As a player, that doesn't seem too much to ask for my end of the contract of trusting you, as a designer, to provide me with adequate enjoyment for the hours' of attention I give your scenario. :) -spyderbytes -------------------- -spyderbytes Posts: 200 | Registered: Wednesday, March 31 2004 08:00 |
| 1 Character Party with 4 People In in Blades of Avernum Editor | |
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Shock Trooper
Member # 4180
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written Monday, April 12 2004 22:06
Profile
i*, I, personally, certainly wouldn't have any problem with the designer telling me I need to play with a single PC and not a party, and that it shouldn't be a healer. I already conceded that class restrictions can be valid, and I can see party size as a valid restriction as well. Those things affect the scenario's balance. However, from there, my argument is that you should let ME pick my name, race and gender, which are things that won't mess with your carefully balanced scenario in the least. Don't have your NPCs call me Fred (or whatever) just because you supplied a character named Fred I can play the scenario with. That'll just tick me off and make me stop playing, when I might be thoroughly enjoying the scenario playing it with my Xena (or whatever). -spyderbytes -------------------- -spyderbytes Posts: 200 | Registered: Wednesday, March 31 2004 08:00 |
| 1 Character Party with 4 People In in Blades of Avernum | |
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Shock Trooper
Member # 4180
|
written Monday, April 12 2004 22:06
Profile
i*, I, personally, certainly wouldn't have any problem with the designer telling me I need to play with a single PC and not a party, and that it shouldn't be a healer. I already conceded that class restrictions can be valid, and I can see party size as a valid restriction as well. Those things affect the scenario's balance. However, from there, my argument is that you should let ME pick my name, race and gender, which are things that won't mess with your carefully balanced scenario in the least. Don't have your NPCs call me Fred (or whatever) just because you supplied a character named Fred I can play the scenario with. That'll just tick me off and make me stop playing, when I might be thoroughly enjoying the scenario playing it with my Xena (or whatever). -spyderbytes -------------------- -spyderbytes Posts: 200 | Registered: Wednesday, March 31 2004 08:00 |
| 1 Character Party with 4 People In in Blades of Avernum Editor | |
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Shock Trooper
Member # 4180
|
written Monday, April 12 2004 21:14
Profile
quote:So flip the gender of the party member's romantic interest--what have you really lost? I realize JV hasn't given us tools to determine gender of any of the PCs, but you could always just pop up a dialog asking the player if they want a male or female love interest. Much more work for the designer, but you broaden your (potential, anyway) playerbase. I don't know who McNemier is, but couldn't anyone, of any race, gender or with any name, have a brother who was his assistant? Or are you saying the brother was part of the PC party? And if so, couldn't it as easily have been a sister if the designer had set it up that way? As far as the engine is concerned, name, race and gender are completely irrelevant. If your scenario arbitrarily makes them NOT irrelevant, all you've really accomplished (as far as I can see) is alienating a portion of your playerbase. Anyawy... 'nuff sed (by me at least) on this subject. :) -spyderbytes EDIT: Thuryl, I don't universally turn down scenarios that give me a starting character I need to use... if they character is interesting enough for me to want to roleplay. :) I just find that I can generally come up with a more interesting PC (to me, at least) then pre-supplied ones. And I don't have any problem with relationships/family or forced situations... you'd be awfully hard-pressed to design an RPG/scenario without them. You have to have backstory, or moving forward becomes pointless. I just want to be able to "personalize" my character by choosing my own race, name, gender and toon. That doesn't seem to me to be too much to ask, considering the tools to let me are already in the engine. [ Monday, April 12, 2004 21:32: Message edited by: spyderbytes ] -------------------- -spyderbytes Posts: 200 | Registered: Wednesday, March 31 2004 08:00 |
| 1 Character Party with 4 People In in Blades of Avernum | |
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Shock Trooper
Member # 4180
|
written Monday, April 12 2004 21:14
Profile
quote:So flip the gender of the party member's romantic interest--what have you really lost? I realize JV hasn't given us tools to determine gender of any of the PCs, but you could always just pop up a dialog asking the player if they want a male or female love interest. Much more work for the designer, but you broaden your (potential, anyway) playerbase. I don't know who McNemier is, but couldn't anyone, of any race, gender or with any name, have a brother who was his assistant? Or are you saying the brother was part of the PC party? And if so, couldn't it as easily have been a sister if the designer had set it up that way? As far as the engine is concerned, name, race and gender are completely irrelevant. If your scenario arbitrarily makes them NOT irrelevant, all you've really accomplished (as far as I can see) is alienating a portion of your playerbase. Anyawy... 'nuff sed (by me at least) on this subject. :) -spyderbytes EDIT: Thuryl, I don't universally turn down scenarios that give me a starting character I need to use... if they character is interesting enough for me to want to roleplay. :) I just find that I can generally come up with a more interesting PC (to me, at least) then pre-supplied ones. And I don't have any problem with relationships/family or forced situations... you'd be awfully hard-pressed to design an RPG/scenario without them. You have to have backstory, or moving forward becomes pointless. I just want to be able to "personalize" my character by choosing my own race, name, gender and toon. That doesn't seem to me to be too much to ask, considering the tools to let me are already in the engine. [ Monday, April 12, 2004 21:32: Message edited by: spyderbytes ] -------------------- -spyderbytes Posts: 200 | Registered: Wednesday, March 31 2004 08:00 |
| 1 Character Party with 4 People In in Blades of Avernum Editor | |
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Shock Trooper
Member # 4180
|
written Monday, April 12 2004 20:25
Profile
Thuryl, you're coming close to putting words in my mouth with your first paragraph. You'll find I'm not one noted for beating around bushes. There's no moral issue about it. The point is simply that a designer limits his/her playerbase (I think more than you might realize) by making a scenario that insists on referring to a female PC as "he" or vice versa (as an example, though extend that at least as far as race and name as well). I've never played BoE, so enlighten me... in what way would the scenarios you refer to have really suffered if the main PC(s) had been male if they were female, or vice versa? Or if the designer had made them slith instead of human, or simply changed their names? If they depended that much on such incidentals, it would seem to me they depended entirely too much on stereotyping in place of "real" story development. Though as I said, I haven't played them, so I could be wrong. I can see where the odd scenario might, with validity, depend on the class of a character (though certainly not as the norm); but not name, race or gender. And for the record, I do pass by almost any RPG/scenario/whatever that doesn't offer me choices as to what my PC will be. You might consider that "my loss", but I consider it my preservation of actually enjoying the time I spend playing them. -spyderbytes -------------------- -spyderbytes Posts: 200 | Registered: Wednesday, March 31 2004 08:00 |
| 1 Character Party with 4 People In in Blades of Avernum | |
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Shock Trooper
Member # 4180
|
written Monday, April 12 2004 20:25
Profile
Thuryl, you're coming close to putting words in my mouth with your first paragraph. You'll find I'm not one noted for beating around bushes. There's no moral issue about it. The point is simply that a designer limits his/her playerbase (I think more than you might realize) by making a scenario that insists on referring to a female PC as "he" or vice versa (as an example, though extend that at least as far as race and name as well). I've never played BoE, so enlighten me... in what way would the scenarios you refer to have really suffered if the main PC(s) had been male if they were female, or vice versa? Or if the designer had made them slith instead of human, or simply changed their names? If they depended that much on such incidentals, it would seem to me they depended entirely too much on stereotyping in place of "real" story development. Though as I said, I haven't played them, so I could be wrong. I can see where the odd scenario might, with validity, depend on the class of a character (though certainly not as the norm); but not name, race or gender. And for the record, I do pass by almost any RPG/scenario/whatever that doesn't offer me choices as to what my PC will be. You might consider that "my loss", but I consider it my preservation of actually enjoying the time I spend playing them. -spyderbytes -------------------- -spyderbytes Posts: 200 | Registered: Wednesday, March 31 2004 08:00 |
| Dungeons and Dragons? in General | |
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Shock Trooper
Member # 4180
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written Monday, April 12 2004 19:45
Profile
Not only have I heard of and played it, I know (knew--haven't had contact in many, many years) Gary Gygax, Steve Jackson, and almost any other "personage" you can name from the Golden Years of PNP. (Nothing quite like dropping names no one here has ever heard of, huh?  ) I worked for a popular provider of PNP gmes back in my misspent youth.As others have pointed out, it depends entirely on the DM and other players just how entertaining it can be. But when it's good, it's oh so good.  Check out the Neverwinter Nights demo if you want a feel for how D&D plays on a computer. I find PNP better (when it's good), but NWN more consistently, um, adequate. -spyderbytes -------------------- -spyderbytes Posts: 200 | Registered: Wednesday, March 31 2004 08:00 |
| 1 Character Party with 4 People In in Blades of Avernum Editor | |
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Shock Trooper
Member # 4180
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written Monday, April 12 2004 19:24
Profile
*sigh!* I should keep my mouth shut. I know I should. But having taken up a crusade against designers arbitrarily limiting player initiative, I find I can't. The issue I'm talking about is not cheating by bringing in a more powerful party than the one supplied--it's just bringing in a DIFFERENT party than the one supplied. I might (for example) just prefer to look at four female avatars for the hours I'll be playing your scenario, rather than the four male ones you provided. I might be xenophobic and refuse to play any non-human characters (or vice versa). I might have deep-seated psychological reasons for it, or I might just think they're prettier graphics. It doesn't really matter one whit WHY, it just matters that the designer arbitrarily limited my ability to do that when s/he has the NPCs blindly assume that the party is exactly the provided party. You don't think it matters? Look at the boards of any RPG that only allows certain genders or races to be particular classes. You'll see plenty of complaints about it, I assure you. People play RPGs to develop their OWN characters, in large part. A game, to me, should be a cooperative effort between a designer and his/her players. That means, to me, at least, giving the players as much initiative as I can within the limitations of the engine. JV's engine doesn't place any limits on the player's race or gender, so I find a scenario that won't let me choose those as I please unacceptable, as a player. I wouldn't at all mind a scenario that PENALIZES me for being a particular race (if the penalty was integral to the story--say people in these towns discrimate against humans or sliths or whatever as the scenario's main plot element). But I DO mind a scenario that won't play correctly if I choose to be a different race or gender (or even just have a different name!) than what the designer arbitrarily decided I should be saddled with. And I totally fail to see how it could be "my loss" to refuse to play a scenario that I wouldn't find entertaining because it has so boxed me in that I have no initiative remaining. If I want a story "told" to me, I'll watch a movie or read a book. I don't have to interrupt my "couch potato-ism" to click buttons, that way. ;) I play RPGs to cooperate with the designer in forming a story. Sure, when it comes right down to it, I might have very little input in determining the ultimate outcome of the story; but a talented designer can make me FEEL I'm having an impact on the unfolding storyline. But not by taking away my ability to choose such details as even my race, gender and name. -spyderbytes -------------------- -spyderbytes Posts: 200 | Registered: Wednesday, March 31 2004 08:00 |
| 1 Character Party with 4 People In in Blades of Avernum | |
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Shock Trooper
Member # 4180
|
written Monday, April 12 2004 19:24
Profile
*sigh!* I should keep my mouth shut. I know I should. But having taken up a crusade against designers arbitrarily limiting player initiative, I find I can't. The issue I'm talking about is not cheating by bringing in a more powerful party than the one supplied--it's just bringing in a DIFFERENT party than the one supplied. I might (for example) just prefer to look at four female avatars for the hours I'll be playing your scenario, rather than the four male ones you provided. I might be xenophobic and refuse to play any non-human characters (or vice versa). I might have deep-seated psychological reasons for it, or I might just think they're prettier graphics. It doesn't really matter one whit WHY, it just matters that the designer arbitrarily limited my ability to do that when s/he has the NPCs blindly assume that the party is exactly the provided party. You don't think it matters? Look at the boards of any RPG that only allows certain genders or races to be particular classes. You'll see plenty of complaints about it, I assure you. People play RPGs to develop their OWN characters, in large part. A game, to me, should be a cooperative effort between a designer and his/her players. That means, to me, at least, giving the players as much initiative as I can within the limitations of the engine. JV's engine doesn't place any limits on the player's race or gender, so I find a scenario that won't let me choose those as I please unacceptable, as a player. I wouldn't at all mind a scenario that PENALIZES me for being a particular race (if the penalty was integral to the story--say people in these towns discrimate against humans or sliths or whatever as the scenario's main plot element). But I DO mind a scenario that won't play correctly if I choose to be a different race or gender (or even just have a different name!) than what the designer arbitrarily decided I should be saddled with. And I totally fail to see how it could be "my loss" to refuse to play a scenario that I wouldn't find entertaining because it has so boxed me in that I have no initiative remaining. If I want a story "told" to me, I'll watch a movie or read a book. I don't have to interrupt my "couch potato-ism" to click buttons, that way. ;) I play RPGs to cooperate with the designer in forming a story. Sure, when it comes right down to it, I might have very little input in determining the ultimate outcome of the story; but a talented designer can make me FEEL I'm having an impact on the unfolding storyline. But not by taking away my ability to choose such details as even my race, gender and name. -spyderbytes -------------------- -spyderbytes Posts: 200 | Registered: Wednesday, March 31 2004 08:00 |
| 1 Character Party with 4 People In in Blades of Avernum Editor | |
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Shock Trooper
Member # 4180
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written Monday, April 12 2004 17:35
Profile
Premade parties don't completely address the issue here. First off, no one HAS to use the party you supply. They're perfectly free to play the scenario with any party of their choosing. Even if they DO use a party you supply, it might not REALLY be the premade party. Players can change PC names and graphics at any point, making your burly male named Fred a lithe female named Wilma, for example. So your NPCs can't really assume the party will have the names/genders your provided. Sure, you can warn against doing that in the Read Me, but you're going to lose some players who happen to hate, for one reason or another, the makeup of your premade party--or just happen to hate not having the ability to customize the characters to their liking. After all, that ability to make the PCs "yours" is a big part of the draw of RPGs in the first place... -spyderbytes -------------------- -spyderbytes Posts: 200 | Registered: Wednesday, March 31 2004 08:00 |
| 1 Character Party with 4 People In in Blades of Avernum | |
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Shock Trooper
Member # 4180
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written Monday, April 12 2004 17:35
Profile
Premade parties don't completely address the issue here. First off, no one HAS to use the party you supply. They're perfectly free to play the scenario with any party of their choosing. Even if they DO use a party you supply, it might not REALLY be the premade party. Players can change PC names and graphics at any point, making your burly male named Fred a lithe female named Wilma, for example. So your NPCs can't really assume the party will have the names/genders your provided. Sure, you can warn against doing that in the Read Me, but you're going to lose some players who happen to hate, for one reason or another, the makeup of your premade party--or just happen to hate not having the ability to customize the characters to their liking. After all, that ability to make the PCs "yours" is a big part of the draw of RPGs in the first place... -spyderbytes -------------------- -spyderbytes Posts: 200 | Registered: Wednesday, March 31 2004 08:00 |
| Article - Bob in Blades of Avernum Editor | |
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Shock Trooper
Member # 4180
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written Monday, April 12 2004 13:51
Profile
DBSM? -spyderbytes -------------------- -spyderbytes Posts: 200 | Registered: Wednesday, March 31 2004 08:00 |
| Article - Bob in Blades of Avernum | |
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Shock Trooper
Member # 4180
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written Monday, April 12 2004 13:51
Profile
DBSM? -spyderbytes -------------------- -spyderbytes Posts: 200 | Registered: Wednesday, March 31 2004 08:00 |
| Complaints on the troublesome call names... in Blades of Avernum Editor | |
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Shock Trooper
Member # 4180
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written Monday, April 12 2004 13:38
Profile
New "standardized" calls COULD be added while still leaving the current ones for backwards compatibility. That said, yeah, I guess I'd have to say I find the inconsistencies mildly irritating. But fixing them is nowhere near the top of the list I would personally make for Jeff's priorities. ;) -spyderbytes -------------------- -spyderbytes Posts: 200 | Registered: Wednesday, March 31 2004 08:00 |
| Complaints on the troublesome call names... in Blades of Avernum | |
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Shock Trooper
Member # 4180
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written Monday, April 12 2004 13:38
Profile
New "standardized" calls COULD be added while still leaving the current ones for backwards compatibility. That said, yeah, I guess I'd have to say I find the inconsistencies mildly irritating. But fixing them is nowhere near the top of the list I would personally make for Jeff's priorities. ;) -spyderbytes -------------------- -spyderbytes Posts: 200 | Registered: Wednesday, March 31 2004 08:00 |
| hidden groups in Blades of Avernum Editor | |
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Shock Trooper
Member # 4180
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written Monday, April 12 2004 12:57
Profile
Give Morgan a cigar... calling move_to_new_town() with arguments of the party's current town and location does indeed reset the group to be hidden again. :) If I'm understanding you, Eldiran, that's irrelevant in my case. I activate the hidden group to participate in a cutscene when the party first enters the town. Once the cutscene is over, I want them hidden unless/until the town turns hostile (why I hid them in the first place :) ). The number of guards needs to be "beefier" than what the player sees just wandering around (i.e., making this town hostile will be a BIG mistake ;) ). -spyderbytes -------------------- -spyderbytes Posts: 200 | Registered: Wednesday, March 31 2004 08:00 |
| hidden groups in Blades of Avernum | |
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Shock Trooper
Member # 4180
|
written Monday, April 12 2004 12:57
Profile
Give Morgan a cigar... calling move_to_new_town() with arguments of the party's current town and location does indeed reset the group to be hidden again. :) If I'm understanding you, Eldiran, that's irrelevant in my case. I activate the hidden group to participate in a cutscene when the party first enters the town. Once the cutscene is over, I want them hidden unless/until the town turns hostile (why I hid them in the first place :) ). The number of guards needs to be "beefier" than what the player sees just wandering around (i.e., making this town hostile will be a BIG mistake ;) ). -spyderbytes -------------------- -spyderbytes Posts: 200 | Registered: Wednesday, March 31 2004 08:00 |
| Calls that we wish existed in Blades of Avernum Editor | |
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Shock Trooper
Member # 4180
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written Monday, April 12 2004 11:38
Profile
Not really a call, but... I'd like to see some sort of token we could put in strings that would expand to a given party member's name. E.g., something like %char0% would expand to whatever name the player gave the first character in the party. -spyderbytes -------------------- -spyderbytes Posts: 200 | Registered: Wednesday, March 31 2004 08:00 |
| Calls that we wish existed in Blades of Avernum | |
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Shock Trooper
Member # 4180
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written Monday, April 12 2004 11:38
Profile
Not really a call, but... I'd like to see some sort of token we could put in strings that would expand to a given party member's name. E.g., something like %char0% would expand to whatever name the player gave the first character in the party. -spyderbytes -------------------- -spyderbytes Posts: 200 | Registered: Wednesday, March 31 2004 08:00 |
| hidden groups in Blades of Avernum Editor | |
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Shock Trooper
Member # 4180
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written Sunday, April 11 2004 18:05
Profile
Exactly what I hoped to avoid. ;) Although erase_char on the first group coupled with a second hidden group (same creatures, just different group number) might not be TOO bad, I guess... Thanks, anyway. :) -spyderbytes -------------------- -spyderbytes Posts: 200 | Registered: Wednesday, March 31 2004 08:00 |
| hidden groups in Blades of Avernum | |
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Shock Trooper
Member # 4180
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written Sunday, April 11 2004 18:05
Profile
Exactly what I hoped to avoid. ;) Although erase_char on the first group coupled with a second hidden group (same creatures, just different group number) might not be TOO bad, I guess... Thanks, anyway. :) -spyderbytes -------------------- -spyderbytes Posts: 200 | Registered: Wednesday, March 31 2004 08:00 |
| hidden groups in Blades of Avernum Editor | |
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Shock Trooper
Member # 4180
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written Sunday, April 11 2004 16:40
Profile
Once you've activated a hidden group (with activate_hidden_group()), is there any way to make the group hidden again (short of the party leaving town and returning, of course)? -spyderbytes -------------------- -spyderbytes Posts: 200 | Registered: Wednesday, March 31 2004 08:00 |
| hidden groups in Blades of Avernum | |
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Shock Trooper
Member # 4180
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written Sunday, April 11 2004 16:40
Profile
Once you've activated a hidden group (with activate_hidden_group()), is there any way to make the group hidden again (short of the party leaving town and returning, of course)? -spyderbytes -------------------- -spyderbytes Posts: 200 | Registered: Wednesday, March 31 2004 08:00 |
| move_to_new_town limitation in Blades of Avernum Editor | |
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Shock Trooper
Member # 4180
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written Sunday, April 11 2004 15:37
Profile
quote:That didn't work, at least for EXIT_STATE (the only one I tried). The way it behaves, I'm guessing the party has already left the town (as far as the engine is concerned) before EXIT_STATE is called. EDIT: I meant to add that START_STATE is called every turn the party is in the town. INIT_STATE is the one called when the party enters the town. So, no, a move_to_new_town() in START_STATE wouldn't be equivalent to variable town entry. -spyderbytes [ Sunday, April 11, 2004 15:41: Message edited by: spyderbytes ] -------------------- -spyderbytes Posts: 200 | Registered: Wednesday, March 31 2004 08:00 |