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UN to Send Troops to Darfur in General
Raven v. Writing Desk
Member # 261
Profile Homepage #5
I wonder how long till we start hearing bad jokes about the Morte Darfur.

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Slarty vs. DeskDesk vs. SlartyTimeline of ErmarianG4 Strategy Central
Posts: 3560 | Registered: Wednesday, November 7 2001 08:00
United 93 in General
Raven v. Writing Desk
Member # 261
Profile Homepage #86
quote:
Originally written by Mouthpiece:

To protect the people and the institutions, to come to the aid of fellow Byzantine brethern and to free the Holy Land from foreign rule a crusade, the first crusade, was called by the Pope. This was a defensive war - to defend Christendom from the constant attacks and expansion of the Muslim world.
I have two problems with this.

1) Be that as it may, that doesn't make it defensive. I haven't seen the actual papal proclamation (which I have to admit, after this much arguing, I'm kind of curious about), but it seems pretty clear that there was an explicit goal to reconquer these lands. The stated goal was not to protect people and ensure the safety of pilgrimages, as one might expect from a U.N. peacekeeping mission. This was an invasion, pure and simple. It might have been motivated by safety concerns. It was still an offense. Calling it defensive is twisting words, and that's all.

quote:
The fact that some who answered the Popes call to arms had other agendas does not change the original motivation for the war.
2) Uh... this goes both ways. The fact that the Pope may have had certain agendas in mind does not change the motivations of other people involved. Even if we assume the Pope said nothing about reconquering territory, the crusade didn't only happen because of his call to arms; if the people hadn't wanted to fight, they wouldn't have. (Wikipedia certainly seems to suggest that the existence of a large and violent class of mercenaries had a lot to do with the need for the Crusades.) So you have to take into account the motivation of all the Western elements involved, not just the Pope.

quote:
Originally written by The Worst Man Ever:

Slarty has a degree at an accredited university. What are Moses's qualifications? :P
I appreciate the approbation, but if I'm being compared to Moses, my degree is pretty much irrelevant. On the other hand, I seem to have ended up at the head of at least two religions (the Church of the Nine-Headed Cave Cow, and the Cult of Slartucker) compared to Moses' one. Hah!

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Slarty vs. DeskDesk vs. SlartyTimeline of ErmarianG4 Strategy Central
Posts: 3560 | Registered: Wednesday, November 7 2001 08:00
Alorael have finally get a Custom Title? in General
Raven v. Writing Desk
Member # 261
Profile Homepage #97
Perhaps we need a new cult. The Cult of Slartucker.

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Slarty vs. DeskDesk vs. SlartyTimeline of ErmarianG4 Strategy Central
Posts: 3560 | Registered: Wednesday, November 7 2001 08:00
United 93 in General
Raven v. Writing Desk
Member # 261
Profile Homepage #81
Sources:
Sources are simply one way of providing evidence to substantiate an argument. (My main point, Alec, was that arguments need to be substantiated.) In this case, since none of us have done original research regarding the various topics that have come up, and none of us have access to relevant primary sources, we really only have recourse to two methods of substantiation: citing sources, and using logic. Logic alone is never enough since it can't conjure the specifics of a situation out of thin air.

quote:
Originally written by Mouthpiece:

History records that the Christian Byzantine empire was under attack by teh Muslims and sent out an appeal for aid to the Pope, from which the first Crusade arose... So yes, defensive war is quite supported by the evidence.
I think your conclusion that the evidence supports a defensive war is premature. Actually, I just think the word "defensive" is off. The First Crusade was indeed intended to reconquer lost territory, but that does not make it defensive. It involved attacking territories that were held by Muslims and were not attacking the West. For comparison, if Mexico suddenly invaded Texas to reconquer lost territory, it would be hard to claim the Texans were on the offensive.

quote:
Originally written by Mouthpiece:

Although occupied for up to four hundred years, until recently pilgrims had easy access to the Christian shrines. In 1009 the Fatimid caliph of Cairo, al-Hakim bi-Amr Allah, had the Church of the Holy Sepulchre in Jerusalem destroyed.
The church was destroyed in 1009, while the First Crusade was launched 86 years later. I don't think 86 years qualifies as "recently."

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Slarty vs. DeskDesk vs. SlartyTimeline of ErmarianG4 Strategy Central
Posts: 3560 | Registered: Wednesday, November 7 2001 08:00
The Big Club Theory in General
Raven v. Writing Desk
Member # 261
Profile Homepage #13
Good competition?

No offense, but no.

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Slarty vs. DeskDesk vs. SlartyTimeline of ErmarianG4 Strategy Central
Posts: 3560 | Registered: Wednesday, November 7 2001 08:00
Taskmaster system in General
Raven v. Writing Desk
Member # 261
Profile Homepage #19
quote:
Originally written by Thuryl:

Players may therefore sometimes have to make a decision between using the currently optimal skill for the situation they're in or the skill they're trying to build up.
You're right that it's a matter of taste, but I didn't know that anyone actually enjoyed having to deal with that. In many of these situations, using the sub-optimal skill just seems absurd. If my archery skill is so low I can't hit things, wouldn't I be better served by shooting at trees for a while, rather than haphazardly firing at enemies in the middle of a heated battle -- something that is almost impossible to reconcile with any attempt at actual role-playing, and something that is likewise hard to justify if you just want to have fun roll-playing. What exactly is the allure?

An interesting parallel situation crops up in the Exile trilogy and in other games where experience is divided based on who deals the death blow. Blessed melee fighters kill things faster than archers and in much greater quantity than spellcasters. So if you want all your characters to remain useful, and you also want a variety of characters, you have to go to ridiculous lengths to insure that the weaker fighters level up half as much as the stronger ones. This means dragging the battle out and generally exposing yourself to more attacks by the enemies.

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Slarty vs. DeskDesk vs. SlartyTimeline of ErmarianG4 Strategy Central
Posts: 3560 | Registered: Wednesday, November 7 2001 08:00
Taskmaster system in General
Raven v. Writing Desk
Member # 261
Profile Homepage #15
*nod*

Good game design is a matter of restraint.

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Slarty vs. DeskDesk vs. SlartyTimeline of ErmarianG4 Strategy Central
Posts: 3560 | Registered: Wednesday, November 7 2001 08:00
Taskmaster system in General
Raven v. Writing Desk
Member # 261
Profile Homepage #12
quote:
Originally written by Mung until not Mungible:

—Alorael, who has noticed that he in fact vastly prefers games with no change in stats at all to games with a great deal of difficult, micromanagement-requiring change. To some extent it is the designer's responsibility to make the challenge balanced: not too hard and not too easy. As long as it's balanced (and sufficiently varied) and you can pick your play style at some point, is there a need for advancement?
Quoted for wisdom.

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Slarty vs. DeskDesk vs. SlartyTimeline of ErmarianG4 Strategy Central
Posts: 3560 | Registered: Wednesday, November 7 2001 08:00
Native Americans in General
Raven v. Writing Desk
Member # 261
Profile Homepage #102
Maybe the problem is with the example. "Shortage of plumbers" isn't a very serious problem, unless the shortage is very extreme (five plumbers left), the need for plumbers becomes several orders of magnitude greater, or the ability to pass on the secrets of the plumbing trade is affected. I don't see any of those things happening any time soon. A moderate shortage of plumbers just means plumbing problems will take longer to get fixed. That may be a real enough problem for it to get corrected, either by the market or by some intelligent entity; but it's not a critical problem.

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Slarty vs. DeskDesk vs. SlartyTimeline of ErmarianG4 Strategy Central
Posts: 3560 | Registered: Wednesday, November 7 2001 08:00
The Big Club Theory in General
Raven v. Writing Desk
Member # 261
Profile Homepage #1
Your theory has a really small club.

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Slarty vs. DeskDesk vs. SlartyTimeline of ErmarianG4 Strategy Central
Posts: 3560 | Registered: Wednesday, November 7 2001 08:00
Alorael have finally get a Custom Title? in General
Raven v. Writing Desk
Member # 261
Profile Homepage #89
Fatman has the right idea. Slarty should decide everything. Only he can properly judge souls.

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Slarty vs. DeskDesk vs. SlartyTimeline of ErmarianG4 Strategy Central
Posts: 3560 | Registered: Wednesday, November 7 2001 08:00
United 93 in General
Raven v. Writing Desk
Member # 261
Profile Homepage #72
quote:
Originally written by Molybdenum:

The Crusades started as a defensive war against muslim expansion and a rescue mission for Middle East Christians.
While citing one source is definitely better than just shouting your opinion, I understand why people are uneasy about this. One university professor's opinion does not a statement of fact make. Professors argue violently and hold radically different opinions all the time.

In this case it seems the book is challenging accepted opinion. If you hold the book highly, maybe it would be worthwhile for you to summarize some of its arguments here? That is going to work better than just citing somebody else's assertion and having us take their word for it, which is only one step removed from shouting an opinion.

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Slarty vs. DeskDesk vs. SlartyTimeline of ErmarianG4 Strategy Central
Posts: 3560 | Registered: Wednesday, November 7 2001 08:00
Taskmaster system in General
Raven v. Writing Desk
Member # 261
Profile Homepage #5
And that's the point: the loopholes are hard to close. Often, closing one cuts off some other, legitimate source of training.

Jeff will never do this, and I'm quite happy that way.

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Slarty vs. DeskDesk vs. SlartyTimeline of ErmarianG4 Strategy Central
Posts: 3560 | Registered: Wednesday, November 7 2001 08:00
Alorael have finally get a Custom Title? in General
Raven v. Writing Desk
Member # 261
Profile Homepage #84
Aran, there is more discrepancy between member number of time spent here than you think. While it's certainly true that there is a significant correlation between the two, there are plenty of members who created an account but didn't post much until months or years later -- or who posted heavily, then left; or who were absent for a year, etc. This isn't obvious because few members actually proclaim these things; and while it may be obvious that member #261 hasn't been around as long as his account, it's not obvious with member numbers once you get a couple thousand into things.

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Slarty vs. DeskDesk vs. SlartyTimeline of ErmarianG4 Strategy Central
Posts: 3560 | Registered: Wednesday, November 7 2001 08:00
United 93 in General
Raven v. Writing Desk
Member # 261
Profile Homepage #63
quote:
Originally written by radix malorum est cupiditas:

quote:
Originally written by Kelandon:

If anyone has any information to contradict any of this, it'd be worth citing sources, because what I've just said is the way the story is normally told in the books that I've read.
It was a response to the rise of the muslim population in Europe, the first ones weren't called by the Pope, but rather by the church (priests, etc.), and therefore aren't counted among the crusades.

The Seljuk Turks were not muslim.

Did you decide to just ignore Kelandon's request? Honestly, if you're going to propose something that runs counter to what most people think they know, you need to provide evidence to back it up. Even if you're sure you're right. Otherwise, what the heck is the point of communicating your opinion? Nothing, except to troll.

As far as the Seljuks go, I found this site talking about advances in Islamic theology made by Seljuks. The other sites I found on the Seljuks seem to agree that they were largely Muslim.

I'm getting craptired of arguing with people who refuse to substantiate their claims even when they are asked to. Frankly, Infernal, it makes me inclined to take everything you say with several extra grains of salt. Cite sources or go away.

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Slarty vs. DeskDesk vs. SlartyTimeline of ErmarianG4 Strategy Central
Posts: 3560 | Registered: Wednesday, November 7 2001 08:00
Taskmaster system in General
Raven v. Writing Desk
Member # 261
Profile Homepage #3
SAngband is an example of a roguelike that handles all skills through a combination of learning-by-doing and Avernumesque skill points.

I'm not sure how you are suggesting FFX and X-II are very different from Avernum. You don't advance the skills you use -- you are asked to choose which skills you want to advance, just like Avernum. The difference is that you basically have packets of skills which also lead to different advancement options later on. So it's just like Avernum, but less flexible for the player.

Moreover, while learning-by-doing makes a lot of sense in theory, it doesn't fit the standard of convenient realism employed in computer RPGs. That is to say, in RPGs you control every move of your character in critical situations, i.e., in battle, but you are not expecting to sit there for 8 hours and watch your character sleep. If a character spends an afternoon learning how to cast a difficult mage spell, you don't watch every minute of it. You read a little text message about it.

Training, similarly, does not just happen in battle. Obviously, a certain amount of learning under pressure is good, but there's also something to be said for practice and endless repetition, especially with a skill like archery. I'd rather just assume that my characters are practicing on their own to improve their skills, rather than have to click a thousand times to make my archer better.

Computer RPGs with learning-by-doing have historically tended to end up being pretty unbalanced and result in players spending long periods of time fighting weak enemies (or nothing at all) and repeatedly doing weird things like attacking themselves in order to better their skills. The best example is probably Final Fantasy 2 (the actual 2, which was not originally released in America). The Secret of Mana games also come to mind.

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Slarty vs. DeskDesk vs. SlartyTimeline of ErmarianG4 Strategy Central
Posts: 3560 | Registered: Wednesday, November 7 2001 08:00
United 93 in General
Raven v. Writing Desk
Member # 261
Profile Homepage #47
It isn't Chomsky's newest or most recent book, either -- he's published several new titles since then, both on politics and on linguistics.

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Slarty vs. DeskDesk vs. SlartyTimeline of ErmarianG4 Strategy Central
Posts: 3560 | Registered: Wednesday, November 7 2001 08:00
United 93 in General
Raven v. Writing Desk
Member # 261
Profile Homepage #38
My understanding (which wikipedia seems to support) is that the Crusades were originally intended to keep at bay and/or recapture territory from various Arabs, and that the atrocities at home followed from that. (Wiki: "On a popular level, the first crusades unleashed a wave of impassioned, personally felt pious fury that was expressed in the massacres of Jews that accompanied the movement of mobs through Europe, as well as the violent treatment of "schismatic" Orthodox Christians of the east.") I don't mean to downplay those attacks at all, but they weren't the original purpose of the Crusades.

Also (and here I have virtually no knowledge) weren't many Turks Islamic? I didn't know any were trying to wipe out Islam -- which ones?

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Slarty vs. DeskDesk vs. SlartyTimeline of ErmarianG4 Strategy Central
Posts: 3560 | Registered: Wednesday, November 7 2001 08:00
Alorael have finally get a Custom Title? in General
Raven v. Writing Desk
Member # 261
Profile Homepage #64
Can you tell me honestly that you never use words or phrases which might have a shorter or more traditional alternative? And do you never use figures of speech? Pffffft.

As Ed might have said if he were more erudite, go palpate on a participle. ;)

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Slarty vs. DeskDesk vs. SlartyTimeline of ErmarianG4 Strategy Central
Posts: 3560 | Registered: Wednesday, November 7 2001 08:00
United 93 in General
Raven v. Writing Desk
Member # 261
Profile Homepage #36
quote:
Originally written by Jewels:

Their actions are not that surprising considering they hold to the Old Testament, but not the New. God calling for the death of nations was not unheard of.
I know you didn't mean this to be a pointed remark, Jewels. But I have to say, this is a remarkably stupid way of trying to understand a religion's adherents -- to take a text which is not its central text, and then compare it to a text used by another religion.

Beyond that, though, your extrapolation doesn't hold water. The religion based primarily on the NT (Christianity) has been responsible for many attacks on other people and nations over the years, far more than the religion based primarily on the OT (Judaism). This comparison, of course, is a bit spurious, since there are so many other factors involved. But I really don't see how you can say that holding to the OT but not the NT makes their actions less surprising, not without turning a blind eye to history.

Among more relevant factors, Western attacks on Islamic states (i.e., the Crusades, certain European Empires), and clerical manipulation of the concept of the lesser jihad, both spring to mind.

[ Monday, May 15, 2006 06:24: Message edited by: Slartreuse ]

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Slarty vs. DeskDesk vs. SlartyTimeline of ErmarianG4 Strategy Central
Posts: 3560 | Registered: Wednesday, November 7 2001 08:00
Native Americans in General
Raven v. Writing Desk
Member # 261
Profile Homepage #82
quote:
Originally written by too kraut, don't read:

In particular, I object to the claim that because we live in a world resulting from history, "the historic principles" must be adhered to. First we must understand how to translate historic principles to our current situation.
*nod* Definitely.

But this goes both ways. You are making some big leaps if you go from "the Romans did something and it worked" to "the thing the Romans did was good and it always works," but you are also making big leaps if you go from "this happened in Europe and it didn't work" to "the thing that happened in Europe is bad and it never works."

If Versailles was Darwinist, btw, then doesn't pretty much every conflict ever have a Darwinian resolution? "To the victor go the spoils." France, Britain, the US, and Italy each had their own agendas -- recovery and safety, preservation of empire, and so on -- and while there was certainly a lot of dumping on Germany, the treaty doesn't seem to have been motivated by any ideology that the Germans were inferior failures who deserved to be wiped out.

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Slarty vs. DeskDesk vs. SlartyTimeline of ErmarianG4 Strategy Central
Posts: 3560 | Registered: Wednesday, November 7 2001 08:00
Native Americans in General
Raven v. Writing Desk
Member # 261
Profile Homepage #78
quote:
Originally written by too kraut, don't read:

quote:
Originally written by PoD person:

I have a basically Darwinist attitude towards cultures
This attitude was pervasive before culminating in WWII when it was found to lead to a lose-lose situation.

Does anyone else find it ironic that you are using an argument based entirely on survival of the fittest ideas to attack the concept of survival of the fittest cultures? Your whole argument is "this didn't work, so now we know better."

I'm not convinced, either. How the heck was the fact that the Romans fought lots of indigenous peoples and then incorporated them into their empire responsible for WW2? Displacement of Native Americans certainly wasn't responsible for it.

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Slarty vs. DeskDesk vs. SlartyTimeline of ErmarianG4 Strategy Central
Posts: 3560 | Registered: Wednesday, November 7 2001 08:00
Alorael have finally get a Custom Title? in General
Raven v. Writing Desk
Member # 261
Profile Homepage #62
And there are people who are vehemently opposed to smilies, Aran, and would be offended that they have to read the :P in your post.

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Slarty vs. DeskDesk vs. SlartyTimeline of ErmarianG4 Strategy Central
Posts: 3560 | Registered: Wednesday, November 7 2001 08:00
United 93 in General
Raven v. Writing Desk
Member # 261
Profile Homepage #31
quote:
Originally written by Khoth:

I've come across some nutters on the internet who think Iran should be nuked before they can build nukes of their own. Could someone from the US please reassure me that it's just a few lunatics who spend too much time online who think that?
Was this a leading question? Given that Bush has suggested as much, no one can assure you of that.

Normally, I'm willing to take a step back, a look at Bush as just a typical extreme point in the pendulum of power in the US that always swings back and forth, as something that will be partially corrected for in the future.

Nuking Tehran, however, does NOT fall into that category.

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Slarty vs. DeskDesk vs. SlartyTimeline of ErmarianG4 Strategy Central
Posts: 3560 | Registered: Wednesday, November 7 2001 08:00
United 93 in General
Raven v. Writing Desk
Member # 261
Profile Homepage #13
quote:
Originally written by Ash Lael:

If anyone is actually forming an opinion on anything based on the facts as portrayed in a film (no matter how good the film), that is worrying.
Welcome to America, Ash. Enjoy your stay :P

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Slarty vs. DeskDesk vs. SlartyTimeline of ErmarianG4 Strategy Central
Posts: 3560 | Registered: Wednesday, November 7 2001 08:00

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