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Avernum V ideas in Avernum 4
Telanos
Apprentice
Member # 2153
 written Friday, August 25 2006 01:11 Profile #260
quote:

I'm not quite sure what you mean by tile map or tile graphics. A4 is just as much a matter of isometric square grids as A1, A2, and A3. Even Geneforge is actually tile-based, although it's less obvious. If you mean graphics, well, the terrain is still tiles and everything else is still sprites.
Well yes I'm aware of that. To clarify, when I say tile graphics I mean it reminds me of board games where you have distinct squares and characters on those squares. I guess I found the whole setup charming, whereas even though the Geneforge graphics are "better", its an attempt to be something it clearly is not.... I just don't feel as taken in with the Geneforge graphics.

quote:

—Alorael, who doesn't see what the Anama and the Church of the Divine Lucre have to fight about. The latter has no mages and the former doesn't particularly care about money.
You have a point. But I'm sure it can't be too hard to manufacture a reason for them to duke it out. In this particular case, I'm less concerned witih small details like how they get into a fight (someone else can solve that) and more interested in the coolness of having the two loony faiths at war ;)

quote:

4. Fire and force barriers were useful for two things. Containing quickfire if you were fast enough and were in the right place. The other was to deflect those moving blocks so they didn't crush you.
I had forgotten about moving blocks, but in short the barrier spells were essentially useless - I am basically ignoring specialised/contrived circumstances and focusing on general game applicability.

quote:

9. Food is still around as a source of healing for those that want it. Poison is not as useful since most monsters die before it takes effect. There are still a few items that duplicate it like the oozing blade.
Yes, food does heal, but the amount is so small as to be insignificant. Who can really say they lug around food to heal themselves when there are potions galore, not to mention spells available?
As for poison, I concede that as a problem that needs to be overcome for poison to become useful - but then, the same can be said of acid and its corresponding spell. Perhaps re-introduce monsters with high resistance to physical and magical damage, and vulnrability to poison? I realise of course, this brings us closer and closer back to E2.

quote:

11. It's buried in the instructions, bug Jeff did mention the change on combining tool use and unlock spell.
Yeah well.... what can I say. I jump into the game and learn by tinkering. I read the manual only when I'm forced to. :)

quote:

12. The wait 40 turns isn't needed since you can't get back health/spell points by using it any more.
16. Bring back slow HP/SP regeneration

quote:

13. Some of the lower level skills were useful like parry and riposte. Lethal blow is just too hard to train up to in a real game.
Too long ago for me to remember much and in any case I never really explored the skills too much. I'm simply going by what I remember was mentioned in the forums. But going on what you mentioned, I don't think there should be skills like Lethal blow which are there but never attainable to any practical degree. All covered under balancing the skills out.
Posts: 24 | Registered: Saturday, October 26 2002 07:00
Avernum V ideas in Avernum 4
Telanos
Apprentice
Member # 2153
 written Thursday, August 24 2006 10:09 Profile #255
Hmm, some thoughts on this:

1) It has already been said, but I didn't like the Geneforge dressed up as Exile feel the game had. I think I'd be much happier if A5 went back to a distinctly tile based map. Sure its probably a step backwards in terms of graphics but I don't think anyone played Exile/Avernum becuase they thought the graphics were great. The tile pictures had their own unique charm.

2) Rentar was a major character in A2 and A3 - A4 was overkill with her being the badguy yet again. But I think there could still be a place for her in A5 as a minor character (kind of like that old master potion brewer lady whose name I can't remember for the life of me)

3) A5 gives the chance to do what A4 didn't. Tie up all the lose ends that were lying around in A2-3 (or rather, Exile 2-3). I don't even remember them now since its been such a long time, but the main one that does come to mind is the Slith and their brethern in the deeper caves.

4) Bring back those cool spells from Exile. Perhaps its my bad memory, but as a general rule it seems each progression onwards involves pruning spells from the selection. In a way I do see the logic behind it - I mean, nobody REALLY had a use for spells like Force Barrier or Fire Barrier.... or Quickfire. But even though they're effectively useless I had immense amusement from using and abusing them in odd ways :) (I remember dispatching of a random outdoor encounter by setting quickfire to the place and walling myself in with barriers)

5) Again, faulty memory is probably at play here but do feel free to being back minor characters that most of us have forgotten about. In particular, I would like to see Aimee (From Exile 1-2 who used to live in the North West prior to the Empire's invasion) make a return from whatever world she went off to and become a more significant character. Granted, she may be too old now but you could always say she discovered other means of prolonging her life without the painful side effects Solberg seemed to be suffering. Or perhaps she trained an apprentice, died and her apprentice is bringing her back to be buried. Doesn't really matter how shes worked back in but I'd really like to see her around A5 and her method of departure leaves alot of scope for new material related to her return as well.

6) Avoid making A5 a clone of A4, which was a clone of A3. I obviously exaggurate, but its somewhat annoying when the crux of the storylines are too similar.

7) Include a character editor. Something similar to the one we got in Exile 2 would be really nice.

8) Movement/Map thing. Geneforge engine aside, the key difference I see between A3 and A4 is the use of one huge map in A4 vs the "overmap" (for lack of a better word) and seperate locations within the "overmap" which you visit in E3. I think the concept of having everything on one huge map is interesting and might have some merit, but as A4 demonstrated, its probably going to be incredibly difficult to get a map huge enough to get the same feel as you would in E3. The fact that the distance between two cities was often shorter than the width of some cities was somewhat annoying (see overall map of A4, where the great castle is 1/3 of the great cave).
And if you make it huge enough to have it feel nice, then you have a problem where the distance between cities may be uncomfortably far (which could probably be addressed with horses and whatnot), but perhaps the larger problem is what to stuff into all that empty space. You can crawl through only so many dungeons between cities before it gets repetitive and you want to get back to the storyline..... So, i'm not saying that a having everything on a huge map is bad but there are some issues that need to be overcome for it to feel good.

9) Bring back food and poison. OK, the hunger thing was somewhat excessive in E2 (I felt its effects came on too fast), but as a concept it was pretty good. It meant food wasn't completely useless.
As for poison, I feel that could be expanded on. Remember how we used to be able to apply poisons onto weapons? We could expand on that. Bring back the skill, and have different things we can apply onto our weapons. Not just straight up poison damage, but perhaps slowing, or paralysis. It could help pull the potionmaking skill out of irrelevence.

10) Spells/Experience. Specifically, make it so that if Sug summons say a lizard and the lizard kills something, Sug gains experience as if he was the one who killed it. Perhaps make summons alittle cheaper - something to turn summoning back into a useful spell. Same thing for arcane blow. For its cost, it was useless for anything other than sounding good.

11) Lockpick skill + lockpick spell synergy. It sounds good at first, but I feel mages shouldnt really need to invest copious amounts of skill points into a lockpicking skill - especially if you arn't informed about this when you're creating characters. A guy that picks locks shouldn't necessarily have to know lots of magic in order to unpick the strongest locks. Perhaps have it so that the spell gets rid of magically locked stuff/magical protections on locks and the weaker normal locks, but stronger locks still require normal pick locking (after having whatever magical protection on it dealt with)

12) The wait 40 turns option was really cool when you needed to pass time by in a dungeon for whatever reason. Much better than being forced to click around at furious speeds.

13) I guess this goes without saying, but try and balance skills out more as difficult as it probably is. I never got into A4 enough to explore the skills out but it seems fairly clear from the comments of others that some skills are simply a waste of points compared to others. Pathfinding becomes more useful once swamps are brought back in (perhaps make it some areas are only accessable with enough pathfinding? Eg, allows you to find a path through a thick patch of trees or something).

14) The random weapons quests in Exile 3 were pretty nifty.

15) Random Addendum: I want to see the Anamas Church and the Church of the Divine Lucre (was that its name? I'm talking about those guys obsessed with money) duke it out. And maybe an unusual plague could spread amongst the divine lucre members - for example, their high ranking members could turn into solid gold. Midas style!
And for the Anamas a huge scandal would suit them nicely. :)
Posts: 24 | Registered: Saturday, October 26 2002 07:00
Pike / Spear / Halberd vs Sword / Dagger aka Pole vs. Melee in Avernum 4
Telanos
Apprentice
Member # 2153
 written Sunday, March 19 2006 06:12 Profile #20
quote:

I must disagree here, sorry [Big Grin]

Spiderweb games are easy enough not to worry if you crank the difficulty of them down, but with higher difficulties Spiderweb games are some of the most difficult games ever invented. You have to take every single little advantage point you can get by every little last point if your difficulty is raised. They're easy if you want them to be and set them to easy, but you can certainly play on some of the most difficult levels ever put into gaming too.
I play on normal difficulty (default setting). While I know you can increase the difficulty setting, I never feel the need to do so. I play games to enjoy its storyline - not to nut my way through ever more difficult battles although that may be something I do along the way.

Still, whatever floats your boat.
Posts: 24 | Registered: Saturday, October 26 2002 07:00
Pike / Spear / Halberd vs Sword / Dagger aka Pole vs. Melee in Avernum 4
Telanos
Apprentice
Member # 2153
 written Wednesday, March 8 2006 03:37 Profile #2
quote:

Personally I like to give my Slith fighter pole weapons and my human fighter edged weapons and a shield.
I do this as well. I generally try and build characters based around their given strengths and weaknesses.

Having said that, I try aim for variety rather than powergaming. Spidweb games have generally been easy enough that you can kill stuff fairly easily without having to resort to calculating which combination of equipment gives you maximum power.
Posts: 24 | Registered: Saturday, October 26 2002 07:00
Are there secret passages? in Avernum 4
Telanos
Apprentice
Member # 2153
 written Thursday, December 15 2005 08:02 Profile #20
OK, I have just seen the screenshots of A4, and it wasn't until I saw it labeled as A4 that it sunk in how much I treasured the old grid layout of previous Exile/Avernum games. I can't quite place my finger on why I prefer it to the "better" graphics the geneforge engine offers, but I do. Maybe its because it reminds me of a boardgame feel. :(

As for the secret passages, I loved how it was done in Exile/Avernum. Sure you could find out they were there with Far Sight, but really - why else would you want the spell? Its been a long time since I played but from memory, I usualy didn't use the spell until I'd finished exploring the dungeon, since I'd use the automap to keep track of where I'd explored (and obviously, farsight would ruin that).

And even without the spell, in many instances it was pretty obvious if there were any secret passages anyway if you looked at the automap - Just spot the conspicious empty splotches on it, and then make a search around the area.

Oh well. It just remains to be seen how the game turns out.
Posts: 24 | Registered: Saturday, October 26 2002 07:00
Finals Fever in General
Telanos
Apprentice
Member # 2153
 written Monday, September 26 2005 01:58 Profile #57
I normally don't post in football topics, but seeing as noone is sticking up for West Coast.....

In their defense, they still played well - and at a 4 point loss the game really could have gone either way. If Sydney hadn't been making all those marks at the end, it could well have ended with WCE 1-2 points ahead.

I'm sure we'll win next year. And for those new to the game, the truth is that West Coast rocks, and everyone (almost) loves it.

// Sounds fake even to me -> Watched all of the last 2 minuites of the final game. (Not a very big football fan!)
Posts: 24 | Registered: Saturday, October 26 2002 07:00
Southern Gates in Geneforge Series
Telanos
Apprentice
Member # 2153
 written Saturday, August 13 2005 08:10 Profile #5
Well I havn't put any points in shaping, so accordingly I didn't really buy much in the way of creations.

Furthermore since I didn't expect to make creatures, I sold quite a number of items that are more for shaping than anything else (will have to check if I have any left in my item stashes).

To make things worse, I'm also out of money (spent on augmentations earlier) - but thats easily fixed since I have plenty of items I can sell.

Anyways, as to where else I dumped points I invested in leadership/mechanics, but not that heavily (Under 10 points in both from memory) but beyond that I didn't really put points anywhere else. I'm most curious as to how you managed to get your Spellcraft points so high.

Oh, something I forgot to add: I generally havn't been using canisters (Used 1 in total so far).

As for items, I suppose it may be time to start using the forge - I havn't actually bothered making any items yet.....
Posts: 24 | Registered: Saturday, October 26 2002 07:00
Southern Gates in Geneforge Series
Telanos
Apprentice
Member # 2153
 written Friday, August 12 2005 23:39 Profile #2
Searer and kill does in the order of 30+ damage. Ice bolt does 60+ and Firebolt from memory isn't much better. Additionally strong daze fails to affect them.
Posts: 24 | Registered: Saturday, October 26 2002 07:00
Southern Gates in Geneforge Series
Telanos
Apprentice
Member # 2153
 written Friday, August 12 2005 23:09 Profile #0
Well, I'm stuck again and oddly enough it looks like nobody else actually got stuck here :|
(At least not if the threads you can find through search are anything to go by).

Anyways, general info:
Playing as solo Agent on Normal.

Stats (with items equipped)
Level: 39
Int/End: 12/3
Magic: 18/6/5/14
13 points left to spend

My problem: The essense vlish slaughters me.
Actually, so does the gazer thing (I forget its name).

Come to think of it, I have lots of trouble with Gazers/Eyebeasts in general but this is the point where I've been unable to get around the problems.

Anyways, the crux of my problem is that I do pitiful amounts of damage to the gazer/vlish (I think the most I can get is about 60+), while the gazer thing does about 180+ to me, and the vlish stuns me to the point where I'm practacally comatose.

Any ideas where I went wrong/what I can do to correct this guys?
Posts: 24 | Registered: Saturday, October 26 2002 07:00
Agent Help in Geneforge Series
Telanos
Apprentice
Member # 2153
 written Saturday, July 9 2005 06:56 Profile #4
Yes, I'm currently playing on Normal.

I put down my stats without the benefit of stat boosters to give you an idea of how I distributed points, but I do use stat boosters (generally I prioritise those which boost areas you guys have recommended).

Furthermore, I already leave areas constantly to recharge essense (actually, for the first time I find I'm leaving areas to escape as opposed to merely recharge, but thats another story).

My main problem is situations where it is simply impossible to leave the area and I'm forced to slog through the fight. Essense pods don't help because generally I'm short of energy as opposed to essense.

Anyways, I know I'm doing something wrong (otherwise I wouldn't be having trouble!) so its sorta redundant for you to tell me that Contra, but your advice is appreciated all the same. I'll see what I can do to correct the stats over the next few levels.

Oh yeah, and I've been to Gretchen. The only thing I could train in was 1 point in Mental. It seemed like I already invested too many points in the other areas to train in.

Anyways, the next time I level, I'll be sure to throw the points into either Battle Magic, or SC (whichever is cheaper).
Posts: 24 | Registered: Saturday, October 26 2002 07:00
Agent Help in Geneforge Series
Telanos
Apprentice
Member # 2153
 written Saturday, July 9 2005 00:53 Profile #0
Hey,

I looked through the previous threads on this, but you all seem to say the same things over and over which arn't terribly helpful right now (no points in shaping, pump up battle/mental).

In any case I'm sure you've figuered my problem. I'm playing agent, and finding its not quite what you guys have made it out to be.

I'm finding that in normal outdoor areas, I'm usually OK. Sure there are a number of areas where I find I'm loading and stalking to take out one/two creatures at a time (because any more and I get slaughtered), but I'm more or less OK with that because I'm making progress.

However I find if the difficulty increases (facing bosses/hard areas) my agent is simply... well.... crap.

EG, on the second island in the underground cave with the book and the ghosts.
I struggeled immensely the first time I went there. I ended up leaving and coming back when I was level 19 and even then I was loading incessantly. I ended up reading hte book twice, and used 4 of those red crystal things (I forget what they're called. They cast some multi target spell) on a single shade on the second read because I was low on AP. And that was lucky too - ohterwise I wouldn't have passed the 2nd read. I didn't bother with the 3rd read.

Same thing goes with the testing hall on the first island (the second test - the one involving the bracelet). I was running around like mad hoping that the golem wouldnt reduce my AP to below 10 with its hits (because that would spell doom for me).

And as for the creator, yes I had significant problems with the creator as well although again I pulled through with the help of various items (venom batons if I remember correctly - it was some time ago).

Anyways, I'm wondering if this is normal (because from what you guys are saying, my impression of "normal" is the agent slaughters everything in her path more or less), or I'm somehow playing the agent wrong.

A char stats:

L19 Agent
Str 4
Dex 6
Int 7
End 4

Battle 9
Mental 4
Blessing 3
SC 2

Leadership 7
Mechanics 10
Luck 2

Melee/Missile: 4
Quick Action/Parry: 2

shaping: Didn't invest anything

Above stats are without item enhancements.
Currently I'm on the 3rd Island although I've only explored the east side (and not completely at that - some areas I've left alone since I died too many times to bother reloading any more).

I think part of the problem is that in any battle where the fighting is forced to be sustained, I run out of energy far too quickly, or if I find the enemies can't be dazed/they file towards you slowly so that you cast daze, and 2 more monsters appear I find I waste energy that way.
Or, if I get hit by a anything that slows/takes AP I'm generally doomed.

I'm not really sure what exactly is wrong with my style of play right now but I'm finding that overall playing the agent has been abnormally difficult (on normal).

Advice please?
Posts: 24 | Registered: Saturday, October 26 2002 07:00
Help. Money problems in Geneforge Series
Telanos
Apprentice
Member # 2153
 written Wednesday, June 22 2005 01:20 Profile #3
There is a guy in the first town (Drypeak) that buys Iron bars - the blacksmith guy.
Theres a woman in Medab (In the inn) that buys shaper equipment.
Theres a guy wondering outside Fort Muck that buys Gemstones.

And I also remember someone buys Research notes, but I don't remember who or where.

So yeah, if you find iron bars, shaper equipment or gemstones, or research notes don't simply sell them to normal shop owners. Just pile them up in a particular place (I usually have a horde of items piled up in the room provided for you in Drypeak. I'm kind of like a miserly dragon in that way haha) and sell them off to the right people when you need money.
Oh yeah, and note that every shop has a limited amount of money with which to buy stuff off you, so if you're looking to maximise your monetary takings (because trainers are ludicrously expensive) its easier to just sell all your stuff at one place, and then move on to the next shop when it runs out of money. That way its easier to keep track of which shops have money for you :)
Posts: 24 | Registered: Saturday, October 26 2002 07:00
Help. Money problems in Geneforge 2
Telanos
Apprentice
Member # 2153
 written Wednesday, June 22 2005 01:20 Profile #3
There is a guy in the first town (Drypeak) that buys Iron bars - the blacksmith guy.
Theres a woman in Medab (In the inn) that buys shaper equipment.
Theres a guy wondering outside Fort Muck that buys Gemstones.

And I also remember someone buys Research notes, but I don't remember who or where.

So yeah, if you find iron bars, shaper equipment or gemstones, or research notes don't simply sell them to normal shop owners. Just pile them up in a particular place (I usually have a horde of items piled up in the room provided for you in Drypeak. I'm kind of like a miserly dragon in that way haha) and sell them off to the right people when you need money.
Oh yeah, and note that every shop has a limited amount of money with which to buy stuff off you, so if you're looking to maximise your monetary takings (because trainers are ludicrously expensive) its easier to just sell all your stuff at one place, and then move on to the next shop when it runs out of money. That way its easier to keep track of which shops have money for you :)
Posts: 24 | Registered: Saturday, October 26 2002 07:00
I hit a wall (stuck) in Geneforge Series
Telanos
Apprentice
Member # 2153
 written Sunday, June 19 2005 18:31 Profile #3
Well I got lucky with the dryaks at the toll road after I posted (figures). For some reason, I managed to fight them in groups of 2 - 3 by running away. Which is odd because I did the same thing before and all of them would come running once I hit the first dryak.

Anyways, with the parry skill, I assume that you get 50% chance of parrying and riptose once with get a it to 15 (since thats the number everyone seems to be throwing around). Does this mean that anything beyond that is wasted? (IE, putting in a 16th or 17th point into Parry gets you nothing and is wasted)
Posts: 24 | Registered: Saturday, October 26 2002 07:00
I hit a wall (stuck) in Geneforge 2
Telanos
Apprentice
Member # 2153
 written Sunday, June 19 2005 18:31 Profile #3
Well I got lucky with the dryaks at the toll road after I posted (figures). For some reason, I managed to fight them in groups of 2 - 3 by running away. Which is odd because I did the same thing before and all of them would come running once I hit the first dryak.

Anyways, with the parry skill, I assume that you get 50% chance of parrying and riptose once with get a it to 15 (since thats the number everyone seems to be throwing around). Does this mean that anything beyond that is wasted? (IE, putting in a 16th or 17th point into Parry gets you nothing and is wasted)
Posts: 24 | Registered: Saturday, October 26 2002 07:00
I hit a wall (stuck) in Geneforge Series
Telanos
Apprentice
Member # 2153
 written Sunday, June 19 2005 01:39 Profile #0
I started playing GF2 again recently as a guardian, and everything was going fine - infact *too* fine - until I got stuck.
I've cleared all the areas up to the Taker Toll Road, The Shade Patrol, and Benerri-Uss Entry. With the exception of the Icy Breeding Pit, I was essentially crushing everything in my path - which is far better than I recall for my shaper, which sort of had a moderate level of difficulty throughout.

However, I find that with my level 36 guardian I get slaughtered when I enter the shade patrol.
And as for the Taker Toll road, I havn't exactly done much exploring as of yet - I entered from the south and theres a bunch of dryaks like no other there. A bunch of dryaks that slaughter me.

Oh, and as for Benerii-Uss Entry, I havn't entered that yet and I don't intend to until I figure out how to crush those blasted dryaks that are killing me. *Being stubborn*

So, I figure I must be doing something wrong. Somewhere I'm guessing that I have messed up my point allocation, so if you guys could lend you expertise I'd appreciate it :)

Heres a quick rundown of my character (with items equipped):
Guardian level 36

Prinary stats
str/dex/int/end: 10/5/4/6

Combat
Mel/Mis/Quick/Parry : 14/5/12/13

I have 2 points in mental magic for unlock doors.
leadership/mechanics/luck: 9/12/5

I also sunk 3 points into Magic creations thinking that I might want to have a pet gazer when I could finally create one, however lately I'm thinking that I don't have enough essense to maintain a half decent creation in the first place so it may have been a waste of points.

I've essentially avoided using the canisters (I've probably used under 5 up till now), although that was more becuase I wanted to use them after I'd invested skill points fully than because of any adherence to shaper guidelines :P

I'm also not aligned with anyone. Actually, for most part I've avoided giving opinions but I'm thinking of rotating through membership with all of the sects starting with Awakened, and ending with the Loyalists. Not sure how that will turn out, but if anyone has tried it and found its impossible (I figure that I have enough "opinions" left to tip it whatever way I want though) then I'd like to hear about it.

In any case, I have 11 points left to spend. Any glaring mistakes will have to be corrected with those 11 points.

Anyways, I've been quite long winded so I hope I havn't overly bored you guys.
Suggestions?
Posts: 24 | Registered: Saturday, October 26 2002 07:00
I hit a wall (stuck) in Geneforge 2
Telanos
Apprentice
Member # 2153
 written Sunday, June 19 2005 01:39 Profile #0
I started playing GF2 again recently as a guardian, and everything was going fine - infact *too* fine - until I got stuck.
I've cleared all the areas up to the Taker Toll Road, The Shade Patrol, and Benerri-Uss Entry. With the exception of the Icy Breeding Pit, I was essentially crushing everything in my path - which is far better than I recall for my shaper, which sort of had a moderate level of difficulty throughout.

However, I find that with my level 36 guardian I get slaughtered when I enter the shade patrol.
And as for the Taker Toll road, I havn't exactly done much exploring as of yet - I entered from the south and theres a bunch of dryaks like no other there. A bunch of dryaks that slaughter me.

Oh, and as for Benerii-Uss Entry, I havn't entered that yet and I don't intend to until I figure out how to crush those blasted dryaks that are killing me. *Being stubborn*

So, I figure I must be doing something wrong. Somewhere I'm guessing that I have messed up my point allocation, so if you guys could lend you expertise I'd appreciate it :)

Heres a quick rundown of my character (with items equipped):
Guardian level 36

Prinary stats
str/dex/int/end: 10/5/4/6

Combat
Mel/Mis/Quick/Parry : 14/5/12/13

I have 2 points in mental magic for unlock doors.
leadership/mechanics/luck: 9/12/5

I also sunk 3 points into Magic creations thinking that I might want to have a pet gazer when I could finally create one, however lately I'm thinking that I don't have enough essense to maintain a half decent creation in the first place so it may have been a waste of points.

I've essentially avoided using the canisters (I've probably used under 5 up till now), although that was more becuase I wanted to use them after I'd invested skill points fully than because of any adherence to shaper guidelines :P

I'm also not aligned with anyone. Actually, for most part I've avoided giving opinions but I'm thinking of rotating through membership with all of the sects starting with Awakened, and ending with the Loyalists. Not sure how that will turn out, but if anyone has tried it and found its impossible (I figure that I have enough "opinions" left to tip it whatever way I want though) then I'd like to hear about it.

In any case, I have 11 points left to spend. Any glaring mistakes will have to be corrected with those 11 points.

Anyways, I've been quite long winded so I hope I havn't overly bored you guys.
Suggestions?
Posts: 24 | Registered: Saturday, October 26 2002 07:00