Profile for Qalnor
| Field | Value |
|---|---|
| Displayed name | Qalnor |
| Member number | 20 |
| Title | Warrior |
| Postcount | 191 |
| Homepage | |
| Registered | Monday, October 1 2001 07:00 |
Recent posts
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| Author | Recent posts |
|---|---|
| Article - The Moral of the Story in Blades of Avernum Editor | |
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Warrior
Member # 20
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written Sunday, May 30 2004 17:41
Profile
Well I guess I'm a little more of a revolutionary than some of you guys, to me there was no moral ambiguity at all about a small rebellion. Apart from that, there's nothing really new for me to add, I think everyone has explained their views well enough, as wrong as some of them are (kidding). Posts: 191 | Registered: Monday, October 1 2001 07:00 |
| Article - The Moral of the Story in Blades of Avernum | |
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Warrior
Member # 20
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written Sunday, May 30 2004 17:41
Profile
Well I guess I'm a little more of a revolutionary than some of you guys, to me there was no moral ambiguity at all about a small rebellion. Apart from that, there's nothing really new for me to add, I think everyone has explained their views well enough, as wrong as some of them are (kidding). Posts: 191 | Registered: Monday, October 1 2001 07:00 |
| Article - The Moral of the Story in Blades of Avernum Editor | |
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Warrior
Member # 20
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written Saturday, May 29 2004 21:48
Profile
I mean no offense by it, but the belief that art and entertainment are the same thing is a common view among artists. And though I enjoy art and have a creative streak myself, it is not a view I share. You give the example of 'A Small Rebellion' as something treated with a great deal of depth, but I cannot say I agree with you overmuch. Although it was technically a choice, I felt no desire to choose to side with the empire, and could not imagine myself doing so unless I was exceptionally bored. Indeed, I was so quickly disintereted in the empire side of things that the plot of the game didn't make sense in parts because it assumed I had done things which I had not prior to deciding to join the rebels. Was there a choice? You could say so, but it was a choice between good and evil, not various shades of grey. But I don't want to turn this into a debate about that scenario as well, let's turn our attention to another scenario, say the third one, the time limited Zharazi Run one. There were different ways of getting where you were going in this one, and I didn't do everything there was to do, so I can't say for sure, but I never saw how the villains in this one were treated with any great deal of depth. Indeed, if you properly won the scenario you never met your enemy the entire time (at least by the paths I followed). Now maybe you will say that this means it lacks art and depth, fine, I disagree, but fine. But are you going to turn around and tell me that Jeff was trying to tell us that people who look different are evil and that racial differences will ultimately end in war? I don't know about you, but I'm reluctant to call Jeff a racist because his lizardpeople lacked proper moral dimension. And that's the equivalent of what you're suggesting here, that Jeff is trying to (or worse you accuse him of being stupid, and not realizing what he's doing) preach the evils of pollution simply because magical pollution played an insidious role in one of his games. When you put it in the context of preaching racial war it sounds silly. But though it may sound less silly, it is no less silly than the suggestion that VoDT is preaching treehugging hippery. Posts: 191 | Registered: Monday, October 1 2001 07:00 |
| Article - The Moral of the Story in Blades of Avernum | |
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Warrior
Member # 20
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written Saturday, May 29 2004 21:48
Profile
I mean no offense by it, but the belief that art and entertainment are the same thing is a common view among artists. And though I enjoy art and have a creative streak myself, it is not a view I share. You give the example of 'A Small Rebellion' as something treated with a great deal of depth, but I cannot say I agree with you overmuch. Although it was technically a choice, I felt no desire to choose to side with the empire, and could not imagine myself doing so unless I was exceptionally bored. Indeed, I was so quickly disintereted in the empire side of things that the plot of the game didn't make sense in parts because it assumed I had done things which I had not prior to deciding to join the rebels. Was there a choice? You could say so, but it was a choice between good and evil, not various shades of grey. But I don't want to turn this into a debate about that scenario as well, let's turn our attention to another scenario, say the third one, the time limited Zharazi Run one. There were different ways of getting where you were going in this one, and I didn't do everything there was to do, so I can't say for sure, but I never saw how the villains in this one were treated with any great deal of depth. Indeed, if you properly won the scenario you never met your enemy the entire time (at least by the paths I followed). Now maybe you will say that this means it lacks art and depth, fine, I disagree, but fine. But are you going to turn around and tell me that Jeff was trying to tell us that people who look different are evil and that racial differences will ultimately end in war? I don't know about you, but I'm reluctant to call Jeff a racist because his lizardpeople lacked proper moral dimension. And that's the equivalent of what you're suggesting here, that Jeff is trying to (or worse you accuse him of being stupid, and not realizing what he's doing) preach the evils of pollution simply because magical pollution played an insidious role in one of his games. When you put it in the context of preaching racial war it sounds silly. But though it may sound less silly, it is no less silly than the suggestion that VoDT is preaching treehugging hippery. Posts: 191 | Registered: Monday, October 1 2001 07:00 |
| Dip with the dead in Blades of Avernum | |
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Warrior
Member # 20
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written Saturday, May 29 2004 21:21
Profile
The trouble is he always does something too fatal the first round, he hits everyone with that spell and then dishes out several hits in quick succession. My party model is a bit different though, I'll admit, and probably less well suited to that sort of affair. I use one primary warrior, an archer, and two spellcasters. I suppose though if you were 39 or thereabouts at that point you were well ahead of where I stood, I don't think any of my characters are quite that high yet even after finishing the scenario twice. Posts: 191 | Registered: Monday, October 1 2001 07:00 |
| Article - The Moral of the Story in Blades of Avernum Editor | |
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Warrior
Member # 20
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written Saturday, May 29 2004 14:39
Profile
Well let me say again, what I wrote was assuming that people felt VoDT was a good example of what is being discussed. I'm not claiming that the original posters points were invalid -- they were valid -- but I dispute VoDT as an example. I stick by what I said with regard to anyone who believes VoDT was 'preachy' because it dealt with magical pollution and a dead villianess who had been responsible for said pollution. And truthfully few people fall cleanly into one category or another. We are not caricatures playing out our part in an avernum scenario, and one simple classification does not suit us. But we do have influences. And some people are more concerned with what they believe 'quality' is than they are about how much fun it is. And some people are so concerned about 'fun' that they forget quality entirely and in the process either make their scenarios lose their fun because they lack spirit or perhaps become pornography if they take things too far along that track. Most people take influence from both sides of things, but some people take too much from one or the other, and I have to believe that anyone who takes VoDT seriously has forgotten about the 'fun' side. Posts: 191 | Registered: Monday, October 1 2001 07:00 |
| Article - The Moral of the Story in Blades of Avernum | |
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Warrior
Member # 20
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written Saturday, May 29 2004 14:39
Profile
Well let me say again, what I wrote was assuming that people felt VoDT was a good example of what is being discussed. I'm not claiming that the original posters points were invalid -- they were valid -- but I dispute VoDT as an example. I stick by what I said with regard to anyone who believes VoDT was 'preachy' because it dealt with magical pollution and a dead villianess who had been responsible for said pollution. And truthfully few people fall cleanly into one category or another. We are not caricatures playing out our part in an avernum scenario, and one simple classification does not suit us. But we do have influences. And some people are more concerned with what they believe 'quality' is than they are about how much fun it is. And some people are so concerned about 'fun' that they forget quality entirely and in the process either make their scenarios lose their fun because they lack spirit or perhaps become pornography if they take things too far along that track. Most people take influence from both sides of things, but some people take too much from one or the other, and I have to believe that anyone who takes VoDT seriously has forgotten about the 'fun' side. Posts: 191 | Registered: Monday, October 1 2001 07:00 |
| Dip with the dead in Blades of Avernum | |
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Warrior
Member # 20
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written Saturday, May 29 2004 14:22
Profile
I would say the hill goblin encounter was probably the hardest outdoor encounter, but it was really just a case of burning them all as fast as humanly possible. I don't know what difficulty level with Vahkoss you're talking about (I play torment), or what level your character was.. or if you were using a vastly better strategy than I was, or if you use strategies that I don't generally allow myself to use, but the most damage I could do to him in 1 round was about 500 damage and that only scratched the surface. After that, he frequently. I did the scenario a second time, with all my characters 30-35, and this time I didn't have to resort to similacrum this time, but it still took me several attempts to successfully beat him. [ Saturday, May 29, 2004 14:23: Message edited by: Qalnor ] Posts: 191 | Registered: Monday, October 1 2001 07:00 |
| A modest proposal in Blades of Avernum Editor | |
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Warrior
Member # 20
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written Saturday, May 29 2004 14:06
Profile
quote:I don't read those forums any more, but I have no doubt that you are a capital fellow. I certainly have not judged you poorly, especially since your only crime so far as I can see was not being in perfect accord with me, a folly that I find most humans live quite well and happily with. If you think I might judge you because you exchanged mild rudenesses with that foreign chap, then you have an overabundance of dignity, I never fault a man for giving as much as he takes so long as he never stops smiling. And at the end of the day, how could I ever think ill of a man who can appreciate a joke about baby-eating? Posts: 191 | Registered: Monday, October 1 2001 07:00 |
| A modest proposal in Blades of Avernum | |
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Warrior
Member # 20
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written Saturday, May 29 2004 14:06
Profile
quote:I don't read those forums any more, but I have no doubt that you are a capital fellow. I certainly have not judged you poorly, especially since your only crime so far as I can see was not being in perfect accord with me, a folly that I find most humans live quite well and happily with. If you think I might judge you because you exchanged mild rudenesses with that foreign chap, then you have an overabundance of dignity, I never fault a man for giving as much as he takes so long as he never stops smiling. And at the end of the day, how could I ever think ill of a man who can appreciate a joke about baby-eating? Posts: 191 | Registered: Monday, October 1 2001 07:00 |
| A modest proposal in Blades of Avernum Editor | |
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Warrior
Member # 20
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written Saturday, May 29 2004 12:38
Profile
quote:I don't much agree with you on that other thread, but I am profoundly delighted to discover that I am not the only one who opened this thread hoping for something amusing. Posts: 191 | Registered: Monday, October 1 2001 07:00 |
| A modest proposal in Blades of Avernum | |
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Warrior
Member # 20
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written Saturday, May 29 2004 12:38
Profile
quote:I don't much agree with you on that other thread, but I am profoundly delighted to discover that I am not the only one who opened this thread hoping for something amusing. Posts: 191 | Registered: Monday, October 1 2001 07:00 |
| Dip with the dead in Blades of Avernum | |
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Warrior
Member # 20
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written Saturday, May 29 2004 12:34
Profile
Sure thing.. if you can't find him after extensive searching, then there may be a problem with the script.. maybe if you left the castle and came back he wouldn't be there, I'm not sure, I don't have a savegame near there to test. Worst case scenario, add it as a special item. The second encounter with him is (in my opinion) the hardest fight in any of the four scenarios, if you can beat that, believe me when I say, you can beat him the third time. Best to try and find him though, you'll miss out on a few dialogue options, but nothing that isn't actually repeated later. Posts: 191 | Registered: Monday, October 1 2001 07:00 |
| Article - The Moral of the Story in Blades of Avernum Editor | |
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Warrior
Member # 20
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written Saturday, May 29 2004 12:28
Profile
I forgot about this interesting discussion for the past few days, and based on the past half dozen posts, it seems that this discussion has forgotten itself, as well. So if we can move beyond accusations and insults -- bidirectional arrogance, clannish behavior, and the relative temperment of the others posting, I'd like to share a thought on the subject. It seems to me that both sides of this debate seem to be making essentially the same point but they're concluding two different things about it. Let's assume the example of VoDT.. Because this scenario seems to be the focus on disagreement. There may be other scenarios which people disagree on, but there are also probably scenarios that one side or the other agree are good because they satisfy both sides in one way or another. The people who are saying VODT is a bad scenario are suggesting that it is indeed because the issue is not handled in a serious and logical fashion that it becomes another tedious mindless moral to file next to 'don't set your sisters cat on fire' and that the scenario has no real business talking about morality if it can't be bothered to treat it seriously. But on the other hand, the side that argues that VODT is a perfectly fine scenario is basically arguing that because the issue is NOT being tackled with a great deal of seriousness, it can't be considered preachy. This side is suggesting that the scenario is not really suggesting you file the lesson away next to any rules about burning animals, but rather that you should just take the scenario at face value and play. But what I essentially see here is a pattern that is true in all forms of creative expression. There are snobs and slobs (and remember what I called your other before you get angry with what I called you, if you see the truth of it in them, see it in yourself as well). Creative snobs believe that there is more value in art than entertainment, and creative slobs believe that there is more value in entertainment than art. In this: snobs believe that if a story touches morality, it should explore it fully and eloquently, and the slobs don't really care how intelligently it is explored, as long as the story is enjoyable. To someone on the snob side, the fact that they don't explore a moral issue completely means that they're obviously missing a lot of very good points.. And to them, this makes it seem preachy. They see the moral but they don't understand why it's there. To someone on the slob side, the fact that the moral issue is not fully explored is not especially pertinent. The only way to offend a slob with preachiness is by bashing them over the head with it. And I have to say, I favor the slob side of things. Not because I don't think the other side has the right to their opinion, nor even because I don't enjoy the higher forms of creativity, but simply because the snobs almost by definition always seem to complain the most about the things the other side enjoys. And I'm not trying to be critical of all criticism. I'm not saying that there's no such thing as a crappy scenario.. and I'm not even saying that a scenario that is well put together is immune from any criticism. It may be boring, cliche, TRULY overbearing in its moralisms, or the author may have truly not accomplished what they set out to accomplish. Posts: 191 | Registered: Monday, October 1 2001 07:00 |
| Article - The Moral of the Story in Blades of Avernum | |
|
Warrior
Member # 20
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written Saturday, May 29 2004 12:28
Profile
I forgot about this interesting discussion for the past few days, and based on the past half dozen posts, it seems that this discussion has forgotten itself, as well. So if we can move beyond accusations and insults -- bidirectional arrogance, clannish behavior, and the relative temperment of the others posting, I'd like to share a thought on the subject. It seems to me that both sides of this debate seem to be making essentially the same point but they're concluding two different things about it. Let's assume the example of VoDT.. Because this scenario seems to be the focus on disagreement. There may be other scenarios which people disagree on, but there are also probably scenarios that one side or the other agree are good because they satisfy both sides in one way or another. The people who are saying VODT is a bad scenario are suggesting that it is indeed because the issue is not handled in a serious and logical fashion that it becomes another tedious mindless moral to file next to 'don't set your sisters cat on fire' and that the scenario has no real business talking about morality if it can't be bothered to treat it seriously. But on the other hand, the side that argues that VODT is a perfectly fine scenario is basically arguing that because the issue is NOT being tackled with a great deal of seriousness, it can't be considered preachy. This side is suggesting that the scenario is not really suggesting you file the lesson away next to any rules about burning animals, but rather that you should just take the scenario at face value and play. But what I essentially see here is a pattern that is true in all forms of creative expression. There are snobs and slobs (and remember what I called your other before you get angry with what I called you, if you see the truth of it in them, see it in yourself as well). Creative snobs believe that there is more value in art than entertainment, and creative slobs believe that there is more value in entertainment than art. In this: snobs believe that if a story touches morality, it should explore it fully and eloquently, and the slobs don't really care how intelligently it is explored, as long as the story is enjoyable. To someone on the snob side, the fact that they don't explore a moral issue completely means that they're obviously missing a lot of very good points.. And to them, this makes it seem preachy. They see the moral but they don't understand why it's there. To someone on the slob side, the fact that the moral issue is not fully explored is not especially pertinent. The only way to offend a slob with preachiness is by bashing them over the head with it. And I have to say, I favor the slob side of things. Not because I don't think the other side has the right to their opinion, nor even because I don't enjoy the higher forms of creativity, but simply because the snobs almost by definition always seem to complain the most about the things the other side enjoys. And I'm not trying to be critical of all criticism. I'm not saying that there's no such thing as a crappy scenario.. and I'm not even saying that a scenario that is well put together is immune from any criticism. It may be boring, cliche, TRULY overbearing in its moralisms, or the author may have truly not accomplished what they set out to accomplish. Posts: 191 | Registered: Monday, October 1 2001 07:00 |
| Dip with the dead in Blades of Avernum | |
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Warrior
Member # 20
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written Saturday, May 29 2004 10:07
Profile
You have to kill him once more before you are able to visit the next level. You don't find him in a particuarly interesting spot, it's someplace you might have walked past already, on the right side of the map, I think.. kind of wandering in a hallway. After you kill him again, he leaves a key. Posts: 191 | Registered: Monday, October 1 2001 07:00 |
| Weird archery bug! in Blades of Avernum | |
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Warrior
Member # 20
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written Saturday, May 29 2004 10:00
Profile
Yes, you will still be able to afford arrows/bolts. When you first start you can afford crude arrows by the time you run out of the crude arrows you can find lying around, and by 35 you should be able to afford steel bolts without any great deal of difficulty. If you cannot afford to keep yourself stocked with steel bolts by this time, you need to evaluate your spending habits, perhaps cutting into your characters' brothel expense accounts. Posts: 191 | Registered: Monday, October 1 2001 07:00 |
| Article - The Moral of the Story in Blades of Avernum Editor | |
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Warrior
Member # 20
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written Saturday, May 22 2004 10:33
Profile
I agree with 1, 2 and 3 certainly.. I'm just not sure about 4. A storyteller is not required to ignore his or her own beliefs in telling a story. Should they harp on them heavily and slap you in the face with them? No. But does every story with moral implications need to describe the opposing viewpoint with equal attention to detail? I don't really think so, as long as you never get the sense that the storyteller is trying to prove something to you, he has no motive much less responsibility to be fair to all sides of an issue. If someone wanted to make a scenario that was deeply exploring issues.. then I would agree with you, because if we're seriously exploring something and trying to come to some real and honest conclusions about something, it's not all about what moves the story anymore, it's about the underlying truths. And in the end when it's all fleshed out it can be a good story too, but it isn't the only way to make a good story. I guess my reaction to your post was based on you pointing your finger at VODT as an example of what you considered preachy and over the top. I don't specifically disagree with anything you said on the subject, really, it's just that your example of VODT to me indicates that your standard is much different than I think is reasonable. And why? Because I don't think VODT seriously explores the issue of pollution. I don't think the scenario has an axe to grind with pollution, and I don't think it's trying to convince anyone that the analogue of magic, science, is some great evil in society because it pollutes up the world. Maybe I'm being naive, but I really never felt like the scenario was trying to tell me ANYTHING about pollution. Was pollution a part of the story? Yes, but did it take on a character, did it have good or evil firmly attached to it? No I don't really think so. To be honest, if I had one complaint about VODT, it would be the lack of a villain or foe. It was a mystery story and in the end the responsible parties were all long dead and their motives were sketchy at best. So at the end of the day, I agree with your thesis, I just don't see how it applies to the example you listed. Posts: 191 | Registered: Monday, October 1 2001 07:00 |
| Article - The Moral of the Story in Blades of Avernum | |
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Warrior
Member # 20
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written Saturday, May 22 2004 10:33
Profile
I agree with 1, 2 and 3 certainly.. I'm just not sure about 4. A storyteller is not required to ignore his or her own beliefs in telling a story. Should they harp on them heavily and slap you in the face with them? No. But does every story with moral implications need to describe the opposing viewpoint with equal attention to detail? I don't really think so, as long as you never get the sense that the storyteller is trying to prove something to you, he has no motive much less responsibility to be fair to all sides of an issue. If someone wanted to make a scenario that was deeply exploring issues.. then I would agree with you, because if we're seriously exploring something and trying to come to some real and honest conclusions about something, it's not all about what moves the story anymore, it's about the underlying truths. And in the end when it's all fleshed out it can be a good story too, but it isn't the only way to make a good story. I guess my reaction to your post was based on you pointing your finger at VODT as an example of what you considered preachy and over the top. I don't specifically disagree with anything you said on the subject, really, it's just that your example of VODT to me indicates that your standard is much different than I think is reasonable. And why? Because I don't think VODT seriously explores the issue of pollution. I don't think the scenario has an axe to grind with pollution, and I don't think it's trying to convince anyone that the analogue of magic, science, is some great evil in society because it pollutes up the world. Maybe I'm being naive, but I really never felt like the scenario was trying to tell me ANYTHING about pollution. Was pollution a part of the story? Yes, but did it take on a character, did it have good or evil firmly attached to it? No I don't really think so. To be honest, if I had one complaint about VODT, it would be the lack of a villain or foe. It was a mystery story and in the end the responsible parties were all long dead and their motives were sketchy at best. So at the end of the day, I agree with your thesis, I just don't see how it applies to the example you listed. Posts: 191 | Registered: Monday, October 1 2001 07:00 |
| Article - The Moral of the Story in Blades of Avernum Editor | |
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Warrior
Member # 20
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written Friday, May 21 2004 07:53
Profile
I disagree with the article in just about every way except of course the core spirit of it. Nobody wants to be preached to, and when things are too preachy people turn away from them. Now I haven't played the Karl Marx scenarios, so I can't say for sure that it doesn't go too far. But you brought up VoTD as an example as well. I'm not going to sit here and tell you that VoTD's plot is sheer genius, but if it is your idea of preachy then your idea of preachy is too extreme. Every story must be told in a moral context. You seem to forget that in your comments.. oh you pay lip service to it by saying that in theory it can add a lot of depth to a story if carefully done, but even this betrays the logical flaw of what you're saying. I would rather a story with a little preachiness than no moral context at all.. adds depth? A story is barely two-dimensional without presenting some ideas as good and others as bad. I'll agree that a story is even stronger yet when the morality of it becomes confused by the complexities of 'reality', but at the very core of a story there are heroes and villains. But you seem to want all villains to be insane; murderers, rapists or otherwise so far outside of social norms that you don't feel guilty considering them the bad guy. Well those romantic notions are fine for a childrens story, but if you want anyone over 12 to take something you create seriously, the villains need motives apart from being kill crazy warlords. I agree with you that sometimes it's possible for an author's voice to become too apparent, but your expectations as described in this article are quite honestly ridiculous and anyone trying to follow the guidelines would almost certainly create a very very boring scenario. Posts: 191 | Registered: Monday, October 1 2001 07:00 |
| Article - The Moral of the Story in Blades of Avernum | |
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Warrior
Member # 20
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written Friday, May 21 2004 07:53
Profile
I disagree with the article in just about every way except of course the core spirit of it. Nobody wants to be preached to, and when things are too preachy people turn away from them. Now I haven't played the Karl Marx scenarios, so I can't say for sure that it doesn't go too far. But you brought up VoTD as an example as well. I'm not going to sit here and tell you that VoTD's plot is sheer genius, but if it is your idea of preachy then your idea of preachy is too extreme. Every story must be told in a moral context. You seem to forget that in your comments.. oh you pay lip service to it by saying that in theory it can add a lot of depth to a story if carefully done, but even this betrays the logical flaw of what you're saying. I would rather a story with a little preachiness than no moral context at all.. adds depth? A story is barely two-dimensional without presenting some ideas as good and others as bad. I'll agree that a story is even stronger yet when the morality of it becomes confused by the complexities of 'reality', but at the very core of a story there are heroes and villains. But you seem to want all villains to be insane; murderers, rapists or otherwise so far outside of social norms that you don't feel guilty considering them the bad guy. Well those romantic notions are fine for a childrens story, but if you want anyone over 12 to take something you create seriously, the villains need motives apart from being kill crazy warlords. I agree with you that sometimes it's possible for an author's voice to become too apparent, but your expectations as described in this article are quite honestly ridiculous and anyone trying to follow the guidelines would almost certainly create a very very boring scenario. Posts: 191 | Registered: Monday, October 1 2001 07:00 |
| More Blades of Avernum Script Samples. Fun! in Blades of Avernum | |
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Warrior
Member # 20
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written Saturday, October 25 2003 07:23
Profile
Looks cool.. I'm looking very forward to BoA.. I almost started tinkering with BoE after I finished the Avernum series but I really wanted to wait for this to come out.. and this scripting interface looks VERY promising. Posts: 191 | Registered: Monday, October 1 2001 07:00 |
| Am I one of the oldest? in General | |
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Warrior
Member # 20
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written Friday, October 24 2003 12:00
Profile
I visit every so often. [ Friday, October 24, 2003 14:33: Message edited by: Qalnor the Moderately Wise ] Posts: 191 | Registered: Monday, October 1 2001 07:00 |
| Family Entertainment / Distribution in Blades of Avernum | |
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Warrior
Member # 20
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written Saturday, October 19 2002 14:57
Profile
:rolls eyes: Has the boards been taken over fundamentalists while I was gone? Sheesh. If you prejudge someone who works in the porn industry then you are, simply, a weakminded fool. Posts: 191 | Registered: Monday, October 1 2001 07:00 |
| Family Entertainment / Distribution in Blades of Avernum | |
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Warrior
Member # 20
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written Saturday, October 19 2002 08:36
Profile
Ok let's take movies for example. Imagine a perfectly good movie. Nothing wrong with it in the world. Now imagine the EXACT same movie except all of the attractive young women have no clothes! It would be an enhancement, not the main feature. The plot, characters, etc would all still be the focus, but yuo would also have some naked titties to stare at. Posts: 191 | Registered: Monday, October 1 2001 07:00 |