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Making of Avernum 1 - 3 in Blades of Avernum
Warrior
Member # 20
Profile #7
It would violate your license on the original games, but it may not technically be a violation of BOA's license.

I would however encourage people to avoid derivitive works in general. Paying homage to something in a scenario is one thing, but recreating anything not in the public domain and distributing it publicly is generally a violation of the law.

Perhaps someone from the BoE community could comment on how this was handled there, as I am sure that in the time BoE has existed this issue has come up on a number of occasions.
Posts: 191 | Registered: Monday, October 1 2001 07:00
Field effect spells? in Blades of Avernum
Warrior
Member # 20
Profile #7
quote:
Originally written by Stupid NEwbie Man:

It's been that way for the whole series, though...and I don't think there was even the Cloud of Blades in the original Avernum, was there?
Nope, and thank god, the original game was easy enough without it.
Posts: 191 | Registered: Monday, October 1 2001 07:00
character traits in Blades of Avernum
Warrior
Member # 20
Profile #21
quote:
Originally written by Kelandon:

I think after some point Pathfinder stops being useful to increase, but I don't know what that point is. Lethal Blow above 15 or so is a bit excessive (30000 damage, anyone?), but I don't know that it stops increasing in power.
Lethal blow does not, in my experience, ever make you do 30000 damage. I believe what lethal blow does, no matter how high your skill level is, is either multiply your damage by 3 (possibly 4, but I would wager 3).

What increasing the skill does is increase the likelihood of scoring a lethal blow, nothing more and nothing less. And truth be told even at ridiculous levels lethal blows will happen less than half of the time.

To be perfectly honest, I think the skill is bloody useless. It grants a few lucky hits now and then but unless you save and reload a lot you can't count on lucky hits to take down big foes.

Maybe at some point it becomes worth training it up a bit simply because everything is so expensive.

This is from limited testing, but I can say that you'll never do 30000 damage strictly because you spent too many points on lethal blow.
Posts: 191 | Registered: Monday, October 1 2001 07:00
I can't download the editor in Blades of Avernum Editor
Warrior
Member # 20
Profile #3
Try:

http://www.spiderwebsoftware.com/ftp/win/BoAEditor.zip
Posts: 191 | Registered: Monday, October 1 2001 07:00
I can't download the editor in Blades of Avernum
Warrior
Member # 20
Profile #3
Try:

http://www.spiderwebsoftware.com/ftp/win/BoAEditor.zip
Posts: 191 | Registered: Monday, October 1 2001 07:00
character traits in Blades of Avernum
Warrior
Member # 20
Profile #14
Kel,

your numbers are correct on the skill chart.. the only different one I noticed was blademaster has a requirement of 8 strength that you omitted.

On a side note, this thread has inspired me to make a rather.. interesting character. He's going to be quite ridiculous at quite a low level if he works out.

[ Sunday, June 06, 2004 14:29: Message edited by: Qalnor ]
Posts: 191 | Registered: Monday, October 1 2001 07:00
character traits in Blades of Avernum
Warrior
Member # 20
Profile #13
Yeah I noticed that after I posted, I meant to edit my post.
Posts: 191 | Registered: Monday, October 1 2001 07:00
character traits in Blades of Avernum
Warrior
Member # 20
Profile #11
An extra AP is basically irrelvent for a mage anyhow (it translates to being able to advance an extra space in addition to casting), I think the sequence bonus is well worth it personally.

Picking Nephil gives a mage a minor exp penalty and a massive sequence boost which is life or death for a party, particuarly in outdoor battles.
Posts: 191 | Registered: Monday, October 1 2001 07:00
race, class, protection stat in Blades of Avernum
Warrior
Member # 20
Profile #9
A possibility exists apart from divinely touched which would explain his confusion. Nephilim start with a +2 bonus to their dexterity scores, and this bonus grows with them. At level 35 nephilim have a +8 bonus to their dexterity.. I imagine that there are times when this bonus is uneven, like the divinely touched bonus.
Posts: 191 | Registered: Monday, October 1 2001 07:00
character traits in Blades of Avernum
Warrior
Member # 20
Profile #8
Personally if it were me I would take a full party unless you're just looking to make the game more challenging. There is more than enough experience available in each of the scenarios to make you the highest level the scenario will easily permit by the end of each scenario.. The only slight exception is the fourth, if you start the fourth immediately after the third you may not end up as high as you might be by the end of the fourth unless you play it through twice.

But if you do wish to play with two characters then I would personally say that those two would be as good as any two.

I would strongly recommend that you build up a good tool use on one character or the other (probably the mage priest.. even with two competing disciplines he'll probably have more spare points than a warrior)

As far as special skills go, they do not, in general, work as they did in the original game. While there are a few NPC's who will train characters in special skills, in any good scenario they will be rare and not the normal method of advancing a skill.

Instead, special skills are trained in the same manner as normal skills, except for the fact that they do not exist unless your character meets certain special requirements.

For example, Anatomy requires a 6 intelligence and 8 in either melee weapons or pole weapons to activate. After which your character may train it as he would any other skill.

There are 9 such skills which may be discovered by increasing normal skills, and an extra 3 which require both normal skills and the additional help of some special skills in order to advance.
Posts: 191 | Registered: Monday, October 1 2001 07:00
character traits in Blades of Avernum
Warrior
Member # 20
Profile #6
I think Nephil are underrated, personally I would make a Nephil mage a hundred times before I made a Slith mage.

Nephil take a very small experience penalty -- they basically get fast on feet for half cost and doesn't take a slot. This to me means that they make ideal mages, because you can take natural mage and brittle bones AND get the fast on feet perk and you come out with only a 5% experience penalty.

To top it all off, they get a truly free 2 levels extra of dexterity. And by truly free I mean it doesn't increase the cost of increasing dex, so the bonus effectively gets better as you spend more in dex (ie when you get to 20 dex you only had to spend 18 dex worth of creation points).

Slith get basically nothing for being slith, honestly. I think the fire resistance was toned since the avernum series because I haven't noticed that my slith warrior is immune to fire in the same way that he was in A2/3.

Overall I think Nephil are the most superior race choice for everyone except a pole user, my nephil usually beats out war blessed people for going first, and is only really beat out by high level haste spells. If I were to start again, I would put it on my mage and priest without a moments hesitation, first strike on a mage and priest are godly.
Posts: 191 | Registered: Monday, October 1 2001 07:00
Problems opening Windows BoA Scenario Editor in Blades of Avernum Editor
Warrior
Member # 20
Profile #6
Yes that's correct. If you go to start-run and type

c:\program files\Blades of Avernum\Data\Blades of Avernum Edit v1.0.1.exe

It should run from there, with no extra sub-directories. If it doesn't run from there, you need to move it into c:\program files\Blades of Avernum\Data\

Note though, this assumes you installed everything to the default directories and on the C drive; I personally run from the D drive and you would change it to D:\ in there.. but I assume anyone who changed anything can figure this out on their own.
Posts: 191 | Registered: Monday, October 1 2001 07:00
Problems opening Windows BoA Scenario Editor in Blades of Avernum
Warrior
Member # 20
Profile #6
Yes that's correct. If you go to start-run and type

c:\program files\Blades of Avernum\Data\Blades of Avernum Edit v1.0.1.exe

It should run from there, with no extra sub-directories. If it doesn't run from there, you need to move it into c:\program files\Blades of Avernum\Data\

Note though, this assumes you installed everything to the default directories and on the C drive; I personally run from the D drive and you would change it to D:\ in there.. but I assume anyone who changed anything can figure this out on their own.
Posts: 191 | Registered: Monday, October 1 2001 07:00
Problems opening Windows BoA Scenario Editor in Blades of Avernum Editor
Warrior
Member # 20
Profile #3
That's usually the error it generates when you aren't running it from your data folder. Are you sure it's in the folder 'Data' (not 'blades of avernum scenarios') and you're running the copy in that directory and not a copy you have in another directory?
Posts: 191 | Registered: Monday, October 1 2001 07:00
Problems opening Windows BoA Scenario Editor in Blades of Avernum
Warrior
Member # 20
Profile #3
That's usually the error it generates when you aren't running it from your data folder. Are you sure it's in the folder 'Data' (not 'blades of avernum scenarios') and you're running the copy in that directory and not a copy you have in another directory?
Posts: 191 | Registered: Monday, October 1 2001 07:00
Article - The Moral of the Story in Blades of Avernum Editor
Warrior
Member # 20
Profile #108
Well apart from your post (and now mine) it's been dead for 5 hours.. and perhaps it intends to remain so. It's not beyond ressurection, but it's beyond the desires of most people to perform such a ressurection.

But to answer your real question, the reason it lived as long as it did was because the argument heated up and once an argument heats nobody is content to say anything once, everything needs to be said until everyone is tired of saying what they insist upon saying over and over again and they are, furthermore, frustrated beyond wits end that everyone else seems to be doing the same, having not heard a bit of what they keep repeating.
Posts: 191 | Registered: Monday, October 1 2001 07:00
Article - The Moral of the Story in Blades of Avernum
Warrior
Member # 20
Profile #108
Well apart from your post (and now mine) it's been dead for 5 hours.. and perhaps it intends to remain so. It's not beyond ressurection, but it's beyond the desires of most people to perform such a ressurection.

But to answer your real question, the reason it lived as long as it did was because the argument heated up and once an argument heats nobody is content to say anything once, everything needs to be said until everyone is tired of saying what they insist upon saying over and over again and they are, furthermore, frustrated beyond wits end that everyone else seems to be doing the same, having not heard a bit of what they keep repeating.
Posts: 191 | Registered: Monday, October 1 2001 07:00
Article - The Moral of the Story in Blades of Avernum Editor
Warrior
Member # 20
Profile #99
I'm calm, for the record.

And whether you were being delibrately evasive or not, I don't know, but you weren't really addressing what I consider the point of this discussion. I tried not to accuse you of being evasive by using the word 'avoided' instead of 'evasive' because it leaves open the possibility of non-intent.

I agree with your statement that VoDT doesn't contain a well written or convincing statement about pollution. I furthermore can say quite honestly that when I played VoDT, I too did not feel that I was being preached to.

Given that, I find Creators original article to be flawed because of an example it gives. It may well be that a very small percentage of players who play VoDT will feel that they are being preached to, but as you aptly demonstrated, you can dig up a moral in just about anything if you try hard enough.

And that issue is the only major dispute I see in this thread. People keep talking about whether VoDT had plot holes or not, and I just don't even see how that's the issue. That would be a fine issue if the thread was called 'Try not to have plot holes in your scenario'.. I doubt anyone would have argued about it. But it's not. This is an article about the preachiness of scenarios.
Posts: 191 | Registered: Monday, October 1 2001 07:00
Article - The Moral of the Story in Blades of Avernum
Warrior
Member # 20
Profile #99
I'm calm, for the record.

And whether you were being delibrately evasive or not, I don't know, but you weren't really addressing what I consider the point of this discussion. I tried not to accuse you of being evasive by using the word 'avoided' instead of 'evasive' because it leaves open the possibility of non-intent.

I agree with your statement that VoDT doesn't contain a well written or convincing statement about pollution. I furthermore can say quite honestly that when I played VoDT, I too did not feel that I was being preached to.

Given that, I find Creators original article to be flawed because of an example it gives. It may well be that a very small percentage of players who play VoDT will feel that they are being preached to, but as you aptly demonstrated, you can dig up a moral in just about anything if you try hard enough.

And that issue is the only major dispute I see in this thread. People keep talking about whether VoDT had plot holes or not, and I just don't even see how that's the issue. That would be a fine issue if the thread was called 'Try not to have plot holes in your scenario'.. I doubt anyone would have argued about it. But it's not. This is an article about the preachiness of scenarios.
Posts: 191 | Registered: Monday, October 1 2001 07:00
Article - The Moral of the Story in Blades of Avernum Editor
Warrior
Member # 20
Profile #95
quote:
Originally written by Kelandon:

I also think that if we assume that VoDT is a statement about pollution, it is a fairly shallow one.
And you've done it again, you've avoided stating what you actually think. Do you assume that VoDT is a statement about pollution or do you not.

I don't care what you think Jeff intended.
I don't care what you think Creator is assuming nor what it would mean if that assumption happened to be true.
I don't care what you think Vent thinks.

Jeff, Creator, and Vent are all capable of speaking for themselves quite well on the subject, and two have done so.

What I want to know, is whether you actually agree with the notion that VoDT contains a lesson about pollution, or not. And let me restate so there is absolutely no confusion, whether intentional or not: do you believe VoDT came off as being preachy?

There are only basic choices for answers to this question, 'yes', 'no' and 'I'm not sure'. I've said you're not sure before, but I have trouble believing you managed to say so much on this debate without ultimately forming an opinion on the actual topic, regardless of how firm that opinion is.
Posts: 191 | Registered: Monday, October 1 2001 07:00
Article - The Moral of the Story in Blades of Avernum
Warrior
Member # 20
Profile #95
quote:
Originally written by Kelandon:

I also think that if we assume that VoDT is a statement about pollution, it is a fairly shallow one.
And you've done it again, you've avoided stating what you actually think. Do you assume that VoDT is a statement about pollution or do you not.

I don't care what you think Jeff intended.
I don't care what you think Creator is assuming nor what it would mean if that assumption happened to be true.
I don't care what you think Vent thinks.

Jeff, Creator, and Vent are all capable of speaking for themselves quite well on the subject, and two have done so.

What I want to know, is whether you actually agree with the notion that VoDT contains a lesson about pollution, or not. And let me restate so there is absolutely no confusion, whether intentional or not: do you believe VoDT came off as being preachy?

There are only basic choices for answers to this question, 'yes', 'no' and 'I'm not sure'. I've said you're not sure before, but I have trouble believing you managed to say so much on this debate without ultimately forming an opinion on the actual topic, regardless of how firm that opinion is.
Posts: 191 | Registered: Monday, October 1 2001 07:00
Article - The Moral of the Story in Blades of Avernum Editor
Warrior
Member # 20
Profile #93
quote:
Originally written by Kelandon:

EDIT: Presumably that it was, in fact, a good archeological scenario. If so, you missed my point completely. And yeah, read the Creator's last post again, because I say the same thing.
What exactly is your point, Kelandon?

You've come out as supporting Creators article, but at the same time you've come out saying that you aren't sure you really consider VoDT preachy (which to me sounds like a clever way of not admitting to a position on the subject).

Well that's fine, but I don't think there's a person in this thread who doesn't agree with the basic idea that a scenario shouldn't be too preachy.

The only real point of major contention in this entire thread, that I'm aware of, is on the issue of whether or not VoDT falls into the category of preachy or not.

Now there has been a lot of hand waving in this thread saying that nobody ever really meant VoDT was preachy so much as it wasn't the best scenario ever made, but Creator hasn't backed down from his position on VoDT, he has, in fact, affirmed it more than once in the thread:

quote:
The 'message' of the scenario is pretty simple. "If you pollute, bad stuff happens."
That's an excerpt from his most recent affirmation on his position on VoDT.

And there has been further hand waving suggesting that it's not a big deal anyhow, that even if he does think that, the article can simply be boiled down to the idea that nobody wants a preachy game. Well everyone agrees with that, but I can't possibly agree with the suggestion that an example which encompasses scenarios 'as preachy' as VoDT doesn't have a very large influence on the impact of the article.

It would be like saying 'I really hate racists.. like Christians' and someone defending that because the person was really only saying that they hated racists, it doesn't really matter what examples he used.

Examples DO matter, because they define the scope of the point, and it is the scope of the point which is in debate, not whether or not the point was valid to begin with, which nobody in their right mind can possibly disagree with.
Posts: 191 | Registered: Monday, October 1 2001 07:00
Article - The Moral of the Story in Blades of Avernum
Warrior
Member # 20
Profile #93
quote:
Originally written by Kelandon:

EDIT: Presumably that it was, in fact, a good archeological scenario. If so, you missed my point completely. And yeah, read the Creator's last post again, because I say the same thing.
What exactly is your point, Kelandon?

You've come out as supporting Creators article, but at the same time you've come out saying that you aren't sure you really consider VoDT preachy (which to me sounds like a clever way of not admitting to a position on the subject).

Well that's fine, but I don't think there's a person in this thread who doesn't agree with the basic idea that a scenario shouldn't be too preachy.

The only real point of major contention in this entire thread, that I'm aware of, is on the issue of whether or not VoDT falls into the category of preachy or not.

Now there has been a lot of hand waving in this thread saying that nobody ever really meant VoDT was preachy so much as it wasn't the best scenario ever made, but Creator hasn't backed down from his position on VoDT, he has, in fact, affirmed it more than once in the thread:

quote:
The 'message' of the scenario is pretty simple. "If you pollute, bad stuff happens."
That's an excerpt from his most recent affirmation on his position on VoDT.

And there has been further hand waving suggesting that it's not a big deal anyhow, that even if he does think that, the article can simply be boiled down to the idea that nobody wants a preachy game. Well everyone agrees with that, but I can't possibly agree with the suggestion that an example which encompasses scenarios 'as preachy' as VoDT doesn't have a very large influence on the impact of the article.

It would be like saying 'I really hate racists.. like Christians' and someone defending that because the person was really only saying that they hated racists, it doesn't really matter what examples he used.

Examples DO matter, because they define the scope of the point, and it is the scope of the point which is in debate, not whether or not the point was valid to begin with, which nobody in their right mind can possibly disagree with.
Posts: 191 | Registered: Monday, October 1 2001 07:00
Dip with the dead in Blades of Avernum
Warrior
Member # 20
Profile #13
quote:
Originally written by Thuryl:

Ah, you mean Vahkohs fight #2, with the ice crystal. I think for that one I managed to kill him in one round with a hasted party, before he could take any action. Again, ludicrous amounts of overpowered fighters help. Failing that, I dunno. Summoning might help.
Yeah, that one. Well with 3 fighters you probably can take him down quick enough, maybe I'll try a party like that someday.

But summoning yeah that's basically what I did my first time through. I made a simulacrum of him and healed it every other round and bladestormed him and he was dead soon enough.

My second time through was easier, but still challenging.
Posts: 191 | Registered: Monday, October 1 2001 07:00
Dip with the dead in Blades of Avernum
Warrior
Member # 20
Profile #11
quote:
Originally by: Thuryl
And usually all he did was cast Fireblast or Arcane Summon when I fought him, which was annoying but not lethal. When he did attack in melee, that usually did kill one of my characters, though.
Uh I think you're misremembering the fight I'm referring to, the second fight I don't believe he ever casts any spells (or he does so very very rarely) except at the beginning of the round he always casts a spell that hits everyone near him.

quote:
Originally written by :Slash::
Second time, you use heroic brew on one character and let him go in alone in the room.

Yes, this works I'm sure. However this is one of those techniques I don't use. I refuse to use potions this way. Heroic brew and invuln in particular are, in my opinion, entirely unfair and in all of the basic scenarios and in all of the past avernum games there have been enough of these items to spoil every difficult fight.
Posts: 191 | Registered: Monday, October 1 2001 07:00

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