The warrior challenge.
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Law Bringer
Member # 6785
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written Sunday, May 13 2007 22:37
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For facing that vlish instead of making another vlish, you could try making a few fyoras to swarm the four images to find the right one. I know you don't want to use temporary creations. The worst part is the four images split up to attack. You could try luring them into the eastern room. Posts: 4643 | Registered: Friday, February 10 2006 08:00 |
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His Mighty Tentacle
Member # 627
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written Monday, May 14 2007 03:58
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Sorry, Mac user here. The stunning blade is not a major exploit. Merely minorly useful in wearing down strong foes. It is really very simple. You hit something. They go down to say, 5 action points. You have 8 action points. You can run 7 moves away from them and fire with a venom baton. Next turn, they have 6 action points. You still have 8. You are still one point away from them. At this point, they are heavily poisoned. You have two options. At low health, move in, hit hard, and finish them off. At mid health, move in, stun again, run away, rinse, repeat. I am not saying it is the most powerful exploit in the universe... But I will say it is useful for the circumstances I use it in. If stuff can't reach you, stuff can't hurt you. Really very simple. And Rocky Point didn't take that many reloads. It was tough, but mostly I got lucky with the RNG. Edit. Venom chainmail. I don't think I bought it for the damage reflection, I think I bought it for the stun resistance it offers. I think. Brain is still fuzzy. Lower defense, more stun resist. I think. [ Monday, May 14, 2007 04:01: Message edited by: Delicious Vlish ] -------------------- If I could make just one wish, I would want a tasty vlish. Geneforge IV. Still no tasty vlish. Posts: 1104 | Registered: Tuesday, February 12 2002 08:00 |
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Raven v. Writing Desk
Member # 261
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written Monday, May 14 2007 05:05
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I'm not entirely clear how this stun exploit works either. I understand DV's math, but your opponent gets a turn right after you strike and will presumably attack you then. That said, in G3 I used the Stunning Blade for a VERY long time with my Melee Agent. Under G3's system, it could stun twice (once for the ability and once just for being a damage-dealing attack), which with Quick Action meant up to four stuns per turn. Most enemies could be incapacitated in a single hit if they were alone. It stopped being useful late in the game due to most enemies having stun resistance or extra APs, or appearing in large groups. -------------------- Slarty vs. Desk • Desk vs. Slarty • Timeline of Ermarian • G4 Strategy Central Posts: 3560 | Registered: Wednesday, November 7 2001 08:00 |
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His Mighty Tentacle
Member # 627
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written Monday, May 14 2007 05:07
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I bit my lip and retrieved the Oozing Blade. That went badly. I did more reloads trying to get past the submission turrents than I care to count. Ouch. Oozing Blade handily chopped Mr. Mirror Image Vlish into bite sized sushi chunks, complete with green wasabi sauce. Shaftoe's servant mind kept wrecking me. Kept casting orbs, was very painful. The clawbugs were no picnic either, but more of an annoyance rather than a real danger once Vlindaloo got ahold of them. Moseh was a non event. No combat, no hurting, no pain. A very tiny screenshot showing why you crank dex out the wazoo as a warrior and ratchet up your missile skills.  POW! The screenshot shown is the damage done with a single shot with an acid baton. This is non blessed random shot damage. Cast war blessing and this damage goes up considerably. Even on torment, this kind of damage is no laughing matter, this is a noticeable bit of hurt being directly applied to the enemy. Yes, the rat lived through the opening shot and tried to eat me. This is how I will be surviving later... Run and gun. The Gruesome Charm, and the dexterity it offers, will give me a considerable boost to my damage with missile weapons, probably the most important aspect of the charm for me. The extra essence is nice, don't get me wrong, but each point in dex really matters when you play by the seat of your pants like this, and once dexterity gets up there, your baton shots start becoming the great equaliser in the end game. When so many enemies either parry your melee assaults, or it is simply not wise to close in to melee range, baton shots are the great leveler. Submission batons doubly so because of the ancillary effects offered. When you do 150 points of damage or there abouts with an acid baton, sure, you are no infiltrator or magic using servile, but that is no warm tickling breeze either to a monster. And then there are the fun toys like submission batons and reaper batons. Now that I have a decent baton and a good blade, I am feeling pretty confident that I can go and whack this guy calling himself Monarch. -------------------- If I could make just one wish, I would want a tasty vlish. Geneforge IV. Still no tasty vlish. Posts: 1104 | Registered: Tuesday, February 12 2002 08:00 |
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His Mighty Tentacle
Member # 627
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written Monday, May 14 2007 05:11
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quote:Yes, the enemy gets a strike. ONE strike. So long as that strike doesn't kill you, you are free to run away and pelt them with thorns. It beats melee where you might get squished. The best way to avoid taking a fatal amount of damage is to not be there when it happens. Once again, I am not saying this is a super high powered exploit. But for those slaying with thorns and steel alone, it is one of many dirty tricks in your bag. There are better ways to skin a cat. -------------------- If I could make just one wish, I would want a tasty vlish. Geneforge IV. Still no tasty vlish. Posts: 1104 | Registered: Tuesday, February 12 2002 08:00 |
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His Mighty Tentacle
Member # 627
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written Monday, May 14 2007 15:52
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I am guessing that interest in this game has slumped. Nobody comments on the insidious infiltrator, and not many folks are commenting here. So I guess I am going to save the effort and hang this up. For the record, I mooshed the golem in the fen, and I went toe to toe with Monarch and survived. -------------------- If I could make just one wish, I would want a tasty vlish. Geneforge IV. Still no tasty vlish. Posts: 1104 | Registered: Tuesday, February 12 2002 08:00 |
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Agent
Member # 4574
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written Monday, May 14 2007 16:25
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quote:I am paying attention, and would like to know atleast the details of your fight with Shaper Monarch. -------------------- Pass the sauerkraut and chips please. Posts: 1186 | Registered: Friday, June 18 2004 07:00 |
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Councilor
Member # 6600
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written Monday, May 14 2007 16:33
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Aww... Let's hear about your fights in the fens, at least. Dikiyoba. Posts: 4346 | Registered: Friday, December 23 2005 08:00 |
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Canned
Member # 8014
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written Monday, May 14 2007 16:52
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Just so you know, I am using a warrior too, and on my first playthrough. You guys keep saying how warrior sucks. -------------------- I can transform into almost anything, though not sanity. My brother tried to type something here. I just erased it. Posts: 1799 | Registered: Sunday, February 4 2007 08:00 |
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His Mighty Tentacle
Member # 627
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written Monday, May 14 2007 17:02
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The warrior, does indeed, suck. The Servile has him beat in every way. -------------------- If I could make just one wish, I would want a tasty vlish. Geneforge IV. Still no tasty vlish. Posts: 1104 | Registered: Tuesday, February 12 2002 08:00 |
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Law Bringer
Member # 6785
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written Monday, May 14 2007 17:11
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The servile has an easier time than a warrior since he can gain magic spells easier and still make creations later on in the game when things start to get hard for him. The warrior is a weaker version of the guardian since all the other classes can make creations which was the guardian's main advantage as a fighter. DV you can keep up the game if you want. I think the hardest part at this point will be getting through the western part of Sandros Mine. Since you won't use magic you are severely going to be hit by essence shackle slowing by the Soul Twins and I don't think you have a strong enough creation to face the Old Golem. Most of Burwood won't be a challenge except the Western Morass. Posts: 4643 | Registered: Friday, February 10 2006 08:00 |
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His Mighty Tentacle
Member # 627
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written Monday, May 14 2007 18:36
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The golem battle was pure luck. All there is to it really. I kept the golem cursed... As best I could. Even blessed, Vlindaloo and Coldclaw had a tough time connecting their attacks. The spawner was hard to kill and kept spitting out creations while the golem pounded us. Even with protection, and the golem being cursed, the golem would hit me for about 150 damage... I was chunked many, many times. I finally got my self to the point where the spawner was gone and I was forced to cut down the mightiest tree in the forest with a herring. I'd switch between the oozing blade and the captian's shiv, which had the skull in it. And I fought the golem to a stalemate. I could not apply enough damage in a turn to out do his regen. Reloaded, fled the grove. Returned with soldiers from the rebel camp. The stabby kind and the thorn shooting kind. Assault began anew. Speed pods, blessing, protection, the slow process of chopping down the spawner, removing the distractions, all the while dealing with a golem hell bent on smooshing somebody. There was much stabbing, and shooting, and missed attacks, and a great deal of furious angry cursing, so much so that it scared my dog. With the servile, it is so easy... Dominate stuff as the spawner creates it, cast kill, dominate, cast spine shield, blast with magic, collect phat lewt. Not the case here. Nope. I had to take down the old box of rocks the hard way. He chunked a couple of my soldiers. The thorn shooters were barely even scratching him. But he was slowly going down. I began to wonder, who would wear out first? I was losing troops... I was losing my healing supplies. My essence reserves were limited, and keeping bless and protection up was a difficult task. No blessing and everything game to a grinding halt. It took forever, but I wore him down. That golem crumbling sound was never more welcome. I made the legs of the tyrant, which turned out to be a really good move for me. -------------------- If I could make just one wish, I would want a tasty vlish. Geneforge IV. Still no tasty vlish. Posts: 1104 | Registered: Tuesday, February 12 2002 08:00 |
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Shaper
Member # 6292
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written Monday, May 14 2007 20:59
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As the stubborn writer of the Infiltrator saga, I'd like to say it is quite nice to read of someone else's exploits for a change. I suppose I really should work on wrapping my tale too. I'll be interested to see how far you can get with this build. -S- -------------------- A4 Items • A4 Singleton • G4 Items • G4 Forging • G4 Infiltrator • NR Items • The Lonely Celt Posts: 2009 | Registered: Monday, September 12 2005 07:00 |
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His Mighty Tentacle
Member # 627
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written Tuesday, May 15 2007 05:28
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 He isn't much, is he? Yes, he really is as weak as he looks. Yet, he is resourceful and survives. I couldn't imagine the game with out mechanics and leadership. This shot was not to long after creaming Monarch. Monarch was killed by pumping him full of acid and venom thorns. Acid shots were doing around 100 to 150 damage. Venom shots a little less. Getting in to Monarch's melee range is suicidal. Yet, there was a few times I closed the distance and poked him with the oozing blade, mostly to get him good and angry and leave my creations alone. My baton shots did just enough damage to stun Monarch. Just a little. Which helped I am sure. Monarch's big spawning creator was a terrible fight in its own right, worse than the battle with Monarch. I got swarmed with Ghlaaks that I just couldn't keep up with. Usually, I just dominate the Ghlaaks and spine shield them, which ends the fight all to quickly. Not the case here. It took me almost an hour or so to take down that freak and it was at this point I started realising, from here on out, it is all about time investment and wearing stuff down. Which sort of took the fun out of the game. I'm not quitting, not just yet, but I am thinking about it. Either that, or I start using magical items, and break the theme of my character. Although, I fear, at this point, a couple of icy crystals and a few wands wouldn't help me much. From this point on, I will be dealing with things that are going to take me a significant investment of time to hack down, and I will be facing them by the swarm. My damage can barely keep up with monster regen. Where a servile or an infiltrator would barely even pause while they waved their hands and blow stuff up, I will be inflicting the death of a thousand tiny paper cuts. Things I have noticed. So far, my batons have done far more damage than my melee weapons. Even with quick strike getting some double hits, the batons are a more consistant damage dealer. Acid and poison does damage over time, wearing a target down. Sticking something with a sword places you in melee range. In my battle with the golem, I lost a lot of turns because of stun. Being in melee range means you get hit, which means if something slaps you silly, you lose a round of attack recovering. Which means no damage that round. As far as actual damage numbers go, with, say, the oozing blade, I do about 60 to 80 damage with an attack, a little more if blessed, and on a lucky hit, a double strike. Compare that to doing 100 to 150ish damage straight up with the venom baton. No chance of a double strike with missile weapons, but damage delivery is consistant. Damage is also high enough (usually) to cause a bit of stun. Missiles have some funky damage numbers. I don't know how they work. The baton it self has one damage multiplier, the thorns another, then there is the missile skill, and dexterity. Melee weapons have the weapon, your strength, and your melee skill. Somehow, the missiles come up with consistantly higher damage rolls. Why is this? Are the multipliers really making that much of a difference? I don't understand nearly enough about math to be able to figure this out, but this was true in G3, and is especially so in G4. Burwood awaits, and I do not currently have the means to create a Wingbolt. Not enough essence. Need to figure out what I am going to do. -------------------- If I could make just one wish, I would want a tasty vlish. Geneforge IV. Still no tasty vlish. Posts: 1104 | Registered: Tuesday, February 12 2002 08:00 |
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Raven v. Writing Desk
Member # 261
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written Tuesday, May 15 2007 06:04
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quote:Hmm. This is somewhat odd. Both Venom Batons and the Oozing Sword do 1-5 damage per level of damage. What's more, the sword is 6 levels higher than the baton and you also have 3 more points in Melee than Missile. And they both do physical damage. This is *really* odd. Well, let's do the math the way we'd expect it to look: Weapon level + str/dex + melee/missile Sword: 12 + 9 + 12 = 33 Baton: 6 + 9 + 9 = 24 Multiplier average of 3 Sword = 99 Baton = 72 Monarch has 40% armor, so multiply by .6 average: Sword = 59 damage Baton = 43 damage Luck, or some other factor, might push damage up a little, so the sword damage is about what we woudl expect. But clearly, something is making the baton do damage very, very differently. 43 damage is nowhere near the 125 or so average you're reporting. I'm honestly a little befuddled, because I've never seen missiles do damage so drastically different. Certainly not in G3 when I ran a missile agent. I don't think the thorns are a factor at all since you can fire a baton with the same results with or without a thorn item in your inventory, and without the thorn item, there's no chance of using its multiplier or anything else. What's amazing is that you are reporting damage three times above what the formulae predict. Doubling the impact of dex AND missile skill AND the item bonus doesn't cover it. Doubling the multiplier doesn't cover it. Maximizing the multiplier results doesn't even cover it. It would have to be some combination of these kinds of effects. And I'm skeptical, because as far as we have seen, these parts of the attack are dealt with uniformly for every single attack in G4. They're handled the same in the item defs, too. Jeff would have had to hardcode in a different way of handling missiles. Vlish, are you sure about those numbers? -------------------- Slarty vs. Desk • Desk vs. Slarty • Timeline of Ermarian • G4 Strategy Central Posts: 3560 | Registered: Wednesday, November 7 2001 08:00 |
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His Mighty Tentacle
Member # 627
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written Tuesday, May 15 2007 06:57
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Look at the picture of me blasting that rat for all that damage. Thorns do a die of damage, batons add another, then you have dex and missile weapons skill affecting those somehow. I don't know how it works... But I know I have taken screenshots of it working. :) Right there. This was while retrieving the Gruesome Charm. I plugged a rat with the acid baton. My damage has since gone up, as my dex is now higher, my missile skill has gone up, etc. I keep telling people that missiles ramp up differently than everything else. It is possible to clear 200 damage with an icy crystal. I've said it time and time again and I guess nobody was paying attention. Even on a much weaker lifecrafter with only a meagre dex investment and a few in missile weapons say, from items and training, it is easy to get just enough damage from batons to really layeth the smacketh down. [ Tuesday, May 15, 2007 07:05: Message edited by: Delicious Vlish ] -------------------- If I could make just one wish, I would want a tasty vlish. Geneforge IV. Still no tasty vlish. Posts: 1104 | Registered: Tuesday, February 12 2002 08:00 |
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Raven v. Writing Desk
Member # 261
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written Tuesday, May 15 2007 07:34
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That's an acid baton against a Brain Rat. Brain Rats don't have armor, and acid batons do 1-6. That ramps our damage estimate up to 84 with the normal formula, only 17 points below your result. Your sword strikes also did more than the formula suggested, so it's likely there is another element, maybe a random factor in the multiplier rolls, that pushes things higher on average. (Meanwhile, the Oozing Sword would be expected to do 99 damage against a Brain Rat, from the formula.) Missile damage ramps up faster because missiles ramp up multipliers and weapons don't, while missiles have significant base damage and spells don't. -------------------- Slarty vs. Desk • Desk vs. Slarty • Timeline of Ermarian • G4 Strategy Central Posts: 3560 | Registered: Wednesday, November 7 2001 08:00 |
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His Mighty Tentacle
Member # 627
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written Tuesday, May 15 2007 07:57
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An acid baton does 6 to 36 damage base as listed. The ammo does 1 to 6 damage base as listed. Somehow, the damage comes out much, much higher. I suspect that somewhere a multiplier my be boosting a cumulative result rather than base. Maybe. I mean, I've seen it happen in other games. My missile skill has since gone up, as I have traveled through Burwood, helping the infiltrators. Horis survived somehow. The damage I can do with a a baton is absolutely staggering compared to what I can do with a sword. I have a submission baton and that has made a huge difference in my survival. Damage is even higher than the acid baton, provided I am not battling magic resistant creatures. If so, I whip out another baton and have at them. Vlindaloo and Coldclaw are still holding on somehow. Vlindaloo misses a lot now. I've raised his dex a bit, but it didn't make much difference. his cursing isn't as pronounced now. Cursed monsters are still whacking me for 60% to 80% chance to hit, which is pretty bad. It means that no matter how much armor I am packing, stuff is going to hit me. Which is making me rethink my armor strat a bit. No sense being encumbered in heavy armor if it isn't doing much good. Coldclaw dies in one hit if a wingbolt blasts him. This... This is not good for me. I have had to do a lot of reloads, not because I was in danger, but because my pets die. I have a new companion named Shotwell. -------------------- If I could make just one wish, I would want a tasty vlish. Geneforge IV. Still no tasty vlish. Posts: 1104 | Registered: Tuesday, February 12 2002 08:00 |
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Shaper
Member # 6292
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written Tuesday, May 15 2007 12:29
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Why is your mechanics so high? -S- -------------------- A4 Items • A4 Singleton • G4 Items • G4 Forging • G4 Infiltrator • NR Items • The Lonely Celt Posts: 2009 | Registered: Monday, September 12 2005 07:00 |
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His Mighty Tentacle
Member # 627
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written Tuesday, May 15 2007 12:42
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 More baton goodness. I remembered to take a screenie while I assaulted the servile cultist stronghold. This is a non blessed shot. Clearing that area was a nightmare. It took me forever to take out the center area. I broke down and added precious skill points to int. I was able to create a wingbolt named Dingbat and upgraded Coldclaw and Vlindaloo a bit more. Monsters seem to find Vlish Vlindaloo delicious, so I upgraded his endurance a good bit actually. I fought the Uberoozebeast. Ugh. Almost died. I put the gloves on though and it was worth it. Was sorely tempted to use the Ornk canister. I have aided three of the infiltrators so far. I battled the weird trall for the anvil. That was unpleasant. I'd highly recommend anybody trying what I am doing right now to just skip this. Must have reloaded over a dozen times. Already I am forming a plan to attempt to destroy the rebel camp. There are bottlenecks there, and I can lure monsters back a few at a time. I am going to wait till I have a reaper baton to try this. I do realise that assaulting the rebel stronghold and killing whatshername with a melee oriented warrior on torment will probably be my undoing. I never thought I'd get as far as I did. This is worse than pulling teeth. I probably need my head examined. I realise that I have no way to cast mass energise. Not sure what I will do to try and fix this. -------------------- If I could make just one wish, I would want a tasty vlish. Geneforge IV. Still no tasty vlish. Posts: 1104 | Registered: Tuesday, February 12 2002 08:00 |
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His Mighty Tentacle
Member # 627
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written Tuesday, May 15 2007 12:44
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quote:Servile technicians! :D -------------------- If I could make just one wish, I would want a tasty vlish. Geneforge IV. Still no tasty vlish. Posts: 1104 | Registered: Tuesday, February 12 2002 08:00 |
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His Mighty Tentacle
Member # 627
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written Tuesday, May 15 2007 17:21
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Some days, you just get stabby.  When I walked out of town, nothing lived. It was as quiet and still as a tomb. There was a lot of chopping that took place. Coldclaw, Vlindaloo, and Dingbat all survived the melee, and so did Shotwell. I didn't even have spine shield. Or mass energise. All I had was speed, war blessing, and protection. All in all, there was a lot of chunking going down. I credit my survival to hoarding all the life steal items I could and regeneration. Oh.And submission batons. GLORIOUS submission batons.   These are fairly average damages. Most shots did about 150 damage. Some shots cleared over 200 damage. Against foes with little or no armor, these are fatal. Ratchet up the damage high enough, and you get a double stun effect... One from damage, the other from the thorn. And I am not sure, but I think the strength of the stun from the thorn is effected by your missile skill... Monsters were absolutely immobile after I plugged them once or twice. What truly amazes me is my little blue buddy Coldclaw. He has been with me since the begining. He mows down Drakkons, eyebeasts, gazers, wingbolts, anything. He has been heavily upgraded by now. He can easily do over a hundred damage to the right target, and typically stuns his foes. He has finally become hard to kill. He has stood toe to toe in melee with, well, pretty much the whole town when I went to killing. He is darn sure stronger than any cryodryak I have ever had. For whatever it is worth to the reader, it is more than worth it to keep one cryoa from the very begining and upgrade it constantly. He is one bad little lizard. Vlindaloo consistantly does over 100 damage a shot now as well. He shrugs off most everything, seems to be very difficult to hit, and his melee damage is absolutely frightning... More so than my own. Keep in mind, he has been heavily upgraded. He can slap down battle gammas with relative ease. He chunks golems. He can slap a dryak silly. Dingbat was the last to join the party, but was worth the wait. He too, was heavily upgraded, even though it was costly. Playing a warrior on torment, I went for qaulity over quanity as a gamble, and it paid off. Wingbolts can achieve over 200 damage a shot on average if you upgrade their strength a good bit. They also become excedingly dangerous in melee if you do this. I could not have destroyed the rebel stronghold with out Dingbat and his furious magical blasts that did sizable chunks of damage to the many, many war tralls I encountered. The endgame awaits. -------------------- If I could make just one wish, I would want a tasty vlish. Geneforge IV. Still no tasty vlish. Posts: 1104 | Registered: Tuesday, February 12 2002 08:00 |
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Warrior
Member # 7638
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written Wednesday, May 16 2007 12:34
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How useful is Shotwell? Is he like a battle beta that costs no essence? -------------------- "640K ought to be enough for anybody." -- Bill Gates, 1981 The wheel is turning but the hamster is dead. Posts: 152 | Registered: Monday, November 6 2006 08:00 |
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...b10010b...
Member # 869
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written Wednesday, May 16 2007 23:32
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She can plink at things with a baton for minimal damage and is lucky if she can take a hit without dying. On balance, not all that useful. -------------------- The Empire Always Loses: This Time For Sure! Posts: 9973 | Registered: Saturday, March 30 2002 08:00 |
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His Mighty Tentacle
Member # 627
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written Thursday, May 17 2007 04:48
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Shotwell was somewhat sturdy, she is a missile character after all. She didn't do a whole lot of damage, but she did help. Mostly she was nice for roleplay and background. -------------------- If I could make just one wish, I would want a tasty vlish. Geneforge IV. Still no tasty vlish. Posts: 1104 | Registered: Tuesday, February 12 2002 08:00 |