Avernum 5, June Update

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AuthorTopic: Avernum 5, June Update
Off With Their Heads
Member # 4045
Profile Homepage #50
quote:
Originally written by Spidweb:

"Which leads to the obvious question: will battle disciplines also influence missile attacks?"

Heck yeah. I won't pass up on a chance to make missile weapons more viable.

I am in favor. :D

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Arancaytar: Every time you ask people to compare TM and Kel, you endanger the poor, fluffy kittens.
Smoo: Get ready to face the walls!
Ephesos: In conclusion, yarr.

Kelandon's Pink and Pretty Page!!: the authorized location for all things by me
The Archive of all released BoE scenarios ever
Posts: 7968 | Registered: Saturday, February 28 2004 08:00
Raven v. Writing Desk
Member # 261
Profile Homepage #51
One of the things Avernum 4 was tremendously successful at was making missile weapons more viable. Actually, I was really impressed with that -- the hassle of using them was gone, they were strong enough to be worth using, but still weaker than melee enough to compensate for their range.

I notice that the screenshot has Aldous with 8 AP. I thought I remembered reading in a previous thread that A5 would go back to the older E/A AP system. Did I make that up?

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Slarty vs. DeskDesk vs. SlartyTimeline of ErmarianG4 Strategy Central
Posts: 3560 | Registered: Wednesday, November 7 2001 08:00
Shaper
Member # 7472
Profile Homepage #52
It would go back to the same way Exile/Avernum/Geneforge 4 handled action points. You get to attack no matter how many AP you have left.

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AmnesiaWitch HuntWhere the Rivers MeetFoul Hordes
Posts: 2686 | Registered: Friday, September 8 2006 07:00
Raven v. Writing Desk
Member # 261
Profile Homepage #53
Right, so presumably you don't start with 8 AP under such a system, because then everyone would get two attacks per round unhasted.

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Slarty vs. DeskDesk vs. SlartyTimeline of ErmarianG4 Strategy Central
Posts: 3560 | Registered: Wednesday, November 7 2001 08:00
Board Administrator
Member # 1
Profile Homepage #54
It's basically the same action point system as the older games, except that it has to be rescaled because the size of the world is different. You get a base 8 action points per turn. You can attack if you have any points left. Attacking takes away 9 action points. So if haste and speed items give you 10 or more AP, you can attack twice in a turn.

- Jeff Vogel

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Official Board Admin
spidweb@spiderwebsoftware.com
Posts: 960 | Registered: Tuesday, September 18 2001 07:00
Agent
Member # 2759
Profile Homepage #55
So that would be the same as Geneforge 4, then.

Requests for Avernum 5:

* Don't put the quicksave and quickload keys right next to each other, it's too easy to hit the wrong one

* When closing dialogue windows, be consistent whether you need to hit "1 - OK" (where that is the only option) or a checkmark button at bottom right

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"Blink and you're dead... Don't turn your back, don't look away and don't blink."

Geneforge 4 stuff. Also, everything I know about Avernum | Avernum 2 | Avernum 3 | Avernum 4
Posts: 1104 | Registered: Monday, March 10 2003 08:00
Electric Sheep One
Member # 3431
Profile #56
No, in G4 attacking still cost only 5AP, so with items it was quite feasible to get at least 3 attacks per round. That would seem to be gone, now.

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We're not doing cool. We're doing pretty.
Posts: 3335 | Registered: Thursday, September 4 2003 07:00
Agent
Member # 2759
Profile Homepage #57
Rubbish. In Geneforge 4, unhasted with 8AP, you only get one attack.

Edit: Or is it possible this is yet another difference between the Windows/Macintosh versions?

[ Sunday, July 01, 2007 02:03: Message edited by: Micawber ]

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"Blink and you're dead... Don't turn your back, don't look away and don't blink."

Geneforge 4 stuff. Also, everything I know about Avernum | Avernum 2 | Avernum 3 | Avernum 4
Posts: 1104 | Registered: Monday, March 10 2003 08:00
Shock Trooper
Member # 1829
Profile #58
Attacking definitely only cost 5 action points in Geneforge 4's Windows version as well. It just cost all your remaining action points as well if you didn't have enough action points to make a second attack, which is why you should always use your items first and your normal attacks second.
Posts: 206 | Registered: Tuesday, September 3 2002 07:00
Off With Their Heads
Member # 4045
Profile Homepage #59
quote:
Originally written by Micawber:

* Don't put the quicksave and quickload keys right next to each other, it's too easy to hit the wrong one
Ideally, make it possible to customize which keys are used for what. If not, definitely this would be an improvement.

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Arancaytar: Every time you ask people to compare TM and Kel, you endanger the poor, fluffy kittens.
Smoo: Get ready to face the walls!
Ephesos: In conclusion, yarr.

Kelandon's Pink and Pretty Page!!: the authorized location for all things by me
The Archive of all released BoE scenarios ever
Posts: 7968 | Registered: Saturday, February 28 2004 08:00
Raven v. Writing Desk
Member # 261
Profile Homepage #60
I'll third the quicksave/quickload keys bit.

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Slarty vs. DeskDesk vs. SlartyTimeline of ErmarianG4 Strategy Central
Posts: 3560 | Registered: Wednesday, November 7 2001 08:00
Electric Sheep One
Member # 3431
Profile #61
Yes, to clarify: the Geneforge rules heretofore have been that attacking costs 5 and using an item 3; except that if you have less than 10 AP remaining, then attacking uses up all your remaining AP. In G4 the change was made that you could also attack if you had any number of AP left. The net effect of these rules was the same as the system Jeff has just described for A5, unless you have 15 to 18 AP. Under all the old Geneforge systems, you could get 3 attacks in a round from this many AP, which was quite attainable with boosting items and haste. Under Jeff's new system, it seems that you will need at least 19 AP to get three attacks.

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We're not doing cool. We're doing pretty.
Posts: 3335 | Registered: Thursday, September 4 2003 07:00
Agent
Member # 2759
Profile Homepage #62
Oh. Well that is possible. However, I didn't think Jeff intended to announce a change to the GF4 AP system. I must have read it as

quote:

You can attack if you have any points left. Attacking takes away up to 9 action points. So if haste and speed items give you 10 or more AP, you can attack twice in a turn.
(bold bits added to show my interpretation)

which is consistent with GF4. Jeff previously said somewhere that A5 would use the same AP system as GF4.

Edit: It was the March 07 update.

[ Sunday, July 01, 2007 09:37: Message edited by: Micawber ]

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"Blink and you're dead... Don't turn your back, don't look away and don't blink."

Geneforge 4 stuff. Also, everything I know about Avernum | Avernum 2 | Avernum 3 | Avernum 4
Posts: 1104 | Registered: Monday, March 10 2003 08:00
Law Bringer
Member # 6785
Profile #63
Jeff is making the change that you can move and still attack with less than 9 AP. In A4 if you moved so you had less than 5 AP left, then you would lose the turn if you attacked or cast a spell unless you used a 3 AP item. This really hurt melee fighting since the enemy was rarely in attack range.

In GF4 if you used items first for attacking, then you got multiple attacks.
Posts: 4643 | Registered: Friday, February 10 2006 08:00
Warrior
Member # 7032
Profile #64
Hmm, I wonder about something....

If you start out as empire soldiers in A5, shouldn't this mean that playing nephil and slith is not an option?

I know the current empire is a softy, but considering the fact that these races have already been driven off the surface, it seems highly unlikely to have them in such a party.

I mean, unless the current empire introduced a very aggressive positive discrimination program throughout his military, and its exactly that which seems very unlikely.

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Power to (the) Mas(ses)
Posts: 102 | Registered: Friday, April 14 2006 07:00
Agent
Member # 4506
Profile Homepage #65
In the screenshots, there seemed to be stairs, cliffs etc- the usual elevation. Has this system gone back to the old Avernum system- where we can walk off cliffs and hurt ourselves etc?

- Archmagus Micael

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"You dare Trifle with Avernum?" ~ Erika the Archmage
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Posts: 1370 | Registered: Thursday, June 10 2004 07:00
Agent
Member # 2820
Profile #66
I'm pretty confident we can start jumping off cliffs again in A5. It was one of the things I missed dearly in the GF series. But we're just going to have to wait for confirmation.

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Thuryl: I mean, most of us don't go around consuming our own bodily fluids, no matter how delicious they are.
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Alorael: War and violence would end if we all had each other's babies!
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Drakefyre: Those are hideous mangos.
Posts: 1415 | Registered: Thursday, March 27 2003 08:00
Law Bringer
Member # 335
Profile Homepage #67
There are cliffs, but you can no longer jump off them. As it turns out, adapting height for the semi-Geneforge engine wasn't so hard. Gravity would have to be completely rewritten, though, so now everything floats.

—Alorael, who has no explanation for this post and who will make no apologies.
Posts: 14579 | Registered: Saturday, December 1 2001 08:00
Law Bringer
Member # 6785
Profile #68
quote:
Originally written by SevenMass:

Hmm, I wonder about something....

If you start out as empire soldiers in A5, shouldn't this mean that playing nephil and slith is not an option?


Jeff mentioned that the benevolent Empire allows for the recruitment of nephil and slith characters. Also that there will be more graphics available for players.
Posts: 4643 | Registered: Friday, February 10 2006 08:00
Agent
Member # 2820
Profile #69
Well, even if we cannot have cliffs as a part of the engine, I hope there will still be some special encounters in which we can satisfy our cliff-jumping cravings.

I do want to make it known, though, that the incorporation of height into the Geneforge style graphics is hard to get used to at first.

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Thuryl: I mean, most of us don't go around consuming our own bodily fluids, no matter how delicious they are.
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Alorael: War and violence would end if we all had each other's babies!
====
Drakefyre: Those are hideous mangos.
Posts: 1415 | Registered: Thursday, March 27 2003 08:00
Apprentice
Member # 8406
Profile #70
battle disciplines remind me of the abilities in a1-3. i missed those in a4.
Posts: 47 | Registered: Thursday, March 29 2007 07:00
Apprentice
Member # 4231
Profile #71
Looks great, and it's nice to see elevation return. I'm eager to see how these disciplines turn out.

The one thing that distresses me a bit is at least one of the portraits still doesn't match the corresponding character graphic. I'm thinking of Aldous, worst offender of Avernum 4, who resembles himself not-at-all.

Then again, the rest looks shiny, so I oughtn't complain.

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Lifetime Spiderweb Gamer
and Fan of Classic Style Graphics
Posts: 42 | Registered: Saturday, April 10 2004 07:00
Lifecrafter
Member # 7252
Profile #72
Oooh..I just wonder..why aren't there cutscenes in Avernum..wait, not just Avernum..but all Spidweb Games?

You know..while your adventurers are resting..a cutscene shows up to show what your foes are thinking of what to do with you..but will not show enough to spoil things..

I'm not asking for FMVs but, you know..engine cutscenes like in Vagrant Story(anyone played this?)..it'll be nice..

If it can't be implemented in A5..there's still G5..

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Oh you're a cute Adze-Haakai you are..
Posts: 732 | Registered: Saturday, June 24 2006 07:00
Law Bringer
Member # 6785
Profile #73
There are cut scenes in some of the games.

Exile 3 has a long one for the ending, Geneforge 4 has one for using the Geneforge in the beginning part of the game. BoA has some in different scenarios if you play the right ones.
Posts: 4643 | Registered: Friday, February 10 2006 08:00
Warrior
Member # 4590
Profile #74
One of the things I liked about the older games was being able to play almost entirely with the keyboard. I think it would be really nice if you were able to do that again, because I still find myself pressing "l" while playing Avernum 4 and being annoyed that nothing happens!

The only other complaints I have about Avernum are the lack of PC graphics. It would be nice if there was a system like in some older games where you could pick combinations of heads/bodies, so you can have more possible characters with fewer total graphics.

Also, the "color shifting" the graphics and pretending they're new is totally lame.

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I often quote myself. It adds spice to my conversation.
- George Bernard Shaw
Posts: 103 | Registered: Sunday, June 20 2004 07:00

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