Avernum 1 Singleton
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| Author | Topic: Avernum 1 Singleton |
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Shaper
Member # 6292
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written Friday, March 2 2007 20:11
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So... I think I'll replay A1 as a singleton, which I have never done before, and it's been a long time since I played A1 at all. I've been poking through threads and FAQs, but find little on A1 in regards to building an optimal singleton. The FAQ for A1 seems naive. I'm looking for some distilled wisdom here. I'm going with Divinely Touched and Strong will with a warrior priest. I'll use sword and shield. Randomizer has mentioned you can top out at Level 40 only halfway through the game. With the 55% penalty here, is this more likely to even out? I don't want to waste too much. What about Tool Use and Cave Lore? Do I need to use these at all? Is Defense or Hardiness worth any bother? I'm really rusty on A1 mechanics. There's no encumbrance in A1? I forget. Your best thorough strategy/advice please. Thanks, -S- -------------------- A4 Item Locations A4 Singleton G4 Items List G4 Forging List The Insidious Infiltrator Posts: 2009 | Registered: Monday, September 12 2005 07:00 |
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Raven v. Writing Desk
Member # 261
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written Friday, March 2 2007 20:24
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I recall that the earlier versions of Divinely Touched were crappy, and basically gave you several wimpy abilities that did not grow stronger over time -- beast call, and so on. I don't remember if A1's version was like that, but I'd be cautious about it. -------------------- Slarty vs. Desk • Desk vs. Slarty • Timeline of Ermarian • G4 Strategy Central Posts: 3560 | Registered: Wednesday, November 7 2001 08:00 |
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Law Bringer
Member # 6785
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written Friday, March 2 2007 20:35
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Since you will spend a lot of time as a spellcaster you will want natural mage. I wasted the other trait as sickness prone to go up quickly at the beginning. Elite warrior would have been better since there are time when you want to fight with weapons. Those mung demons are the best example when they dumbfound your spellcaster. I really should have finished that game, but I got interested in other games. Posts: 4643 | Registered: Friday, February 10 2006 08:00 |
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Shaper
Member # 6292
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written Friday, March 2 2007 20:59
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Hmm, well, I'm trying the priest-warrior, so no mage spells nor Natural Mage needed. Now I'm looking at Strong Will and Elite Warrior. The other alternative to Elite Warrior would be Fast On Feet, but it's got less penalty. I've seen mixed mileage reviews of Elite Warrior. I'm wondering if Fast on Feet is the way to go. -S- -------------------- A4 Item Locations A4 Singleton G4 Items List G4 Forging List The Insidious Infiltrator Posts: 2009 | Registered: Monday, September 12 2005 07:00 |
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Councilor
Member # 6600
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written Friday, March 2 2007 21:21
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You plan to go without tool use and unlock? Is that feasible? Or fun? Unfortunately, Dikiyoba doesn't know enough about A1 to offer any good suggestions. Posts: 4346 | Registered: Friday, December 23 2005 08:00 |
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Law Bringer
Member # 6785
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written Friday, March 2 2007 22:02
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I looked some more at my character. It was mage 9 to get dispel barrier, priest 18 to have all those great spells. Tool use of 10, but I don't remember why and it is dexterity derived. Cave lore of 10 and I think there was a trainer for 5 levels and the rest was derived from intelligence 20. Potion making was raised to 9 so I can make energy potions. There are a limited number of energy potions/elixirs in the game and I probably will use most of them. A little bit for strength, dexterity, and endurance but a lot less than most people would. There really should be a better thread on singletons and what works. I know I would have done this one differently on traits. Fast on feet is great for fighters when you want a second attack without a haste, but doesn't help for spell casting. I still like having mage spells because I could start with lightning spray and take out packs of monsters from the start. Priest don't get an effective equivalent until much later. [ Friday, March 02, 2007 22:45: Message edited by: Randomizer ] Posts: 4643 | Registered: Friday, February 10 2006 08:00 |
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Apprentice
Member # 7246
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written Friday, March 2 2007 23:43
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Randomizer is right: not only can Cave Lore be bought (in Draco) but also Barter (Silvar), Archery (Duvno), Anatomy (Magi), Gymnasics (Emerald), Blademaster (Gnass) and Magery (Khoth). I have not tried a singleton in A1, but I would think that Natural Mage and Elite Warrior would be a possible combination although the XP-penalty of 55% means you will not advance very quickly. Natural Mage means, you can wear armour (including Boots of Speed) an still cast mage spells. Until you get Boots of Speed you can always use potions for hasting. This means you still get a hit in the first round but are speeded for later rounds. -------------------- My Avernum Walkthroughs Posts: 45 | Registered: Wednesday, June 21 2006 07:00 |
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Shaper
Member # 6292
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written Saturday, March 3 2007 00:24
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I was thinking to try Drakefyre's model with the Priest-Warrior, because I like the idea of honing in so tightly and powerfully. I am wondering if it is feasible, and more importantly, fun in A1 to forego Mage spells, especially Haste and Unlock. My wish is to be able to at least eventually go everywhere and do everything, rather than just construct some nasty challenge like I did in my singleton run through A4 in which I couldn't dispel barriers or unearth any caches. Maybe I really do want to make a Mage-Priest-Warrior. I can do without making potions I am pretty sure. I would need 20 Runelore to get Smite level 3 from the book in Fort Avernum, for starters. Is that even possible or affordable as a singleton practically? I believe I want to slow down my levelling up significantly, or else I will cap out at level 40 much too early...isn't that what your experience suggests, Random? I'd rather have the beneficial positive traits and not max out prematurely. More advice? -S- [ Saturday, March 03, 2007 00:24: Message edited by: Synergy ] -------------------- A4 Item Locations A4 Singleton G4 Items List G4 Forging List The Insidious Infiltrator Posts: 2009 | Registered: Monday, September 12 2005 07:00 |
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Raven v. Writing Desk
Member # 261
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written Saturday, March 3 2007 00:27
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Doesn't Natural Mage make ALL spells better in A1 (including Priest Spells)? -------------------- Slarty vs. Desk • Desk vs. Slarty • Timeline of Ermarian • G4 Strategy Central Posts: 3560 | Registered: Wednesday, November 7 2001 08:00 |
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Shaper
Member # 6292
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written Saturday, March 3 2007 00:32
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You, Slarty, are correct. I am so saturated with memories of A4 now, that I had completely forgotten that former construct. This makes Natural Mage an obvious choice to me. Natural Mage/Strong Will? Natural Mage/Elite Warrior? Fast on Feet seems less important than either of these, but I could be wrong. Getting closer to launching. A little. :) -S- -------------------- A4 Item Locations A4 Singleton G4 Items List G4 Forging List The Insidious Infiltrator Posts: 2009 | Registered: Monday, September 12 2005 07:00 |
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...b10010b...
Member # 869
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written Saturday, March 3 2007 01:40
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Natural Mage makes all your spells better, but the improvement is negligible. In BoA, at least, NM is equivalent to about 5 levels of bonus, which means your spells do, say, 10 points more damage. It's not worth taking just for the spell bonus, IMHO. [ Saturday, March 03, 2007 01:42: Message edited by: Cryptozoology ] -------------------- The Empire Always Loses: This Time For Sure! Posts: 9973 | Registered: Saturday, March 30 2002 08:00 |
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Shaper
Member # 6292
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written Saturday, March 3 2007 01:47
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The thought plickens. -S- -------------------- A4 Item Locations A4 Singleton G4 Items List G4 Forging List The Insidious Infiltrator Posts: 2009 | Registered: Monday, September 12 2005 07:00 |
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Law Bringer
Member # 6785
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written Saturday, March 3 2007 03:10
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You might as well take the penalty. I forgot about the level cap when I started and would have done it differently. Once your reputation is high enough you can buy knowledge brews from Silverlocke and that will compensate for the slower rate of advancement. I had rune reading of 31. Intelligence of 20 gave me 10 points to arcane lore add I added 2 more. This combined with priest 18 was enough. I doubt you neeed as high an intelligence to increase spell damage. Without dispel barrier there will be limits on what you can do. I don't remember what gets blocked off in the later part of the game, but there are a limited number of piercing crystals and you use up the early ones doing the Mertis Spiral. In A4 it wasn't as serious a problems since you mostly missed spell books and getting knowledge brews. You can always remove your armor to use dispel barrier and forgo natural mage. Not having strong will didn't seem to hurt. I think the high intelligence eventually compensates. [ Saturday, March 03, 2007 03:12: Message edited by: Randomizer ] Posts: 4643 | Registered: Friday, February 10 2006 08:00 |
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Raven v. Writing Desk
Member # 261
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written Saturday, March 3 2007 06:10
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It sounds like Elite Warrior is the clear winner, with Natural Mage, Fast on Feet, and maybe Toughness vying for the second spot. I don't really remember how much I actually wanted to wear encumbering armor in A1; if I did, I'd take NM for easier casting of Slow and such, and just for simplicity. Fast on Feet is good early but useless once you get speed enhancing items. But early on, the 5 levels of spell bonus will make a difference since your skill points are so spread out. So I think my vote is EW + NM. -------------------- Slarty vs. Desk • Desk vs. Slarty • Timeline of Ermarian • G4 Strategy Central Posts: 3560 | Registered: Wednesday, November 7 2001 08:00 |
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Shaper
Member # 6292
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written Saturday, March 3 2007 14:10
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Elite Warrior and Natural Mage sounds reasonable and most appealing at this point. I tend to like wearing heavy armor, and if I am going to be a Mage, I might as well. Random (or anyone)...will you give me a bit more on how much you allocated in other skills like: Melee weapons. Seems like a few cheap levels are worthwhile. I couldn't hit much at the beginning when I didn't invest in it at all. Hardiness: worth investing ANY points in? Defense: better than Hardiness, apparently...how much to invest? All it does is help you avoid melee blows. Dexterity: does it make much difference for a singleton? (going sooner in combat or hitting/dodging more often?) Or is it too expensive to get up to useful levels? Assassination Bows I think I know how I will construct my singleton "Shadowcast" now, but I'm still interested in how others have done it or what they can say about any individual skill in A1 being useless or having hidden value. Thanks! -S- -------------------- A4 Item Locations A4 Singleton G4 Items List G4 Forging List The Insidious Infiltrator Posts: 2009 | Registered: Monday, September 12 2005 07:00 |
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Infiltrator
Member # 7488
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written Saturday, March 3 2007 18:04
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quote:I forgot about being able to buy Cave Lore and Archery. Thanks for the reminder. When I play A1 as a singleton, I do Fast on Feet and Natural Mage. It's got a fairly high XP penalty too (I think 45%), but I've found it to be a fairly formidable combo, at least in the beginning. quote:I've never tried Elite Warrior and Natural Mage as a singleton, but it actually sounds pretty good. And if you want a tank that can cast mage spells, Natural Mage is an absolute must. Melee weapons: I really don't bother, as my Strength & Dexterity usually take care of it, and I don't do much melee (I'm more of a spellcaster). Hardiness: Base level is fine early on, but a couple of levels overall can't hurt. Defense: Same as Hardiness. Dexterity: You'll need it, and it does make a difference. I'm usually around level 8 with characters that have Fast on Feet. Assassination: If you're planning any hand-to-hand combat, and I'm assuming so with Elite Warrior, then get some, though you probably won't need more than about 5 levels. Bows: You're on your own here, as I'm not that big on missile weapons. Also, one final thing: Drink all the Knowledge Brew you can find; you'll need it. My singletons--indeed, all my PCs--tend to be high priest/archmage tanks. Therefore, my Intelligence ends up around 12+, with both Spells skills at 18. [ Saturday, March 03, 2007 18:05: Message edited by: The Mystic ] -------------------- Either I'm crazy, or everybody else is nuts. And I know I'm not crazy because the little man who lives on my shoulder told me so. If people don't think there's something wrong with you, there's something wrong with you. Posts: 558 | Registered: Friday, September 15 2006 07:00 |
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Canned
Member # 8014
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written Saturday, March 3 2007 18:31
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As for the Avernum 4 singleton discusion. Collect every herb you come across. Near the end there will be a guy who can make knowledge brews out of one of every, or most of, herbs. If they start to drag you down, start putting them somewhere in the beginning fort. Then as you move on, store them in Fort Draco, then Formelo, and then finally at Fort Avernum, near the portal. That is where you can store anything without them disapearing or of you forgetting. If you are paronoid, spread out the stuff. That is what I did, and none of it disapeared. -------------------- I can transform into almost anything, though not sanity. Muffins n' Hell. Note that revisions of the first part is down the list. Posts: 1799 | Registered: Sunday, February 4 2007 08:00 |
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Shaper
Member # 6292
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written Saturday, March 3 2007 19:42
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Hmm, thanks folks. One more thing. Luck? I'm not sure what the actual stat benefits are for Luck in A1 or if it's worth the bother. Has it remained consistent through BoA? -S- -------------------- A4 Item Locations A4 Singleton G4 Items List G4 Forging List The Insidious Infiltrator Posts: 2009 | Registered: Monday, September 12 2005 07:00 |
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Raven v. Writing Desk
Member # 261
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written Saturday, March 3 2007 19:50
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To be honest, I'm not sure there's a single game for which we've actually reached a reasonable consensus as to what Luck does. (Well, except the Exile series.) Luck is one of those skills for which the documentation and in-game blurbs are generally aberrant. I do think it always has that 2% bonus to hit or to dodge. Beyond that, who knows. -------------------- Slarty vs. Desk • Desk vs. Slarty • Timeline of Ermarian • G4 Strategy Central Posts: 3560 | Registered: Wednesday, November 7 2001 08:00 |
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Law Bringer
Member # 6785
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written Saturday, March 3 2007 20:22
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There have been games where I lucked out of dying, but I don't know whether it's been worth more than 1 point. I went high intelligence (20) so I had very few skill points left for strength and dexterity to carry loot and later the better armor. Also endurance was 5 so I wasn't a complete glass cannon. I didn't have anything left over for the combat skills. I know I'll miss it, but that's what divine warrior is for in the end. I think tool use of 10 resulted since I was really tired of being blown up opening boxes. Edit - assasination will probably be the best combat skill since at least in A3 is based on your level and at 40 you will be higher than most monsters. It should be way more effective earlier on in the game than for a regular party. [ Sunday, March 04, 2007 05:27: Message edited by: Randomizer ] Posts: 4643 | Registered: Friday, February 10 2006 08:00 |
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Apprentice
Member # 7246
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written Saturday, March 3 2007 22:07
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All skills which can be assigned when defining the character, can be trained later. Particularly for a singeton it is important to differentiate between setup and a trained up character near the end or in the middle of the game. Luck is a very important "skill" because it affects many secodnary skills and also contributes to random encounters. I however usually train in this skill later. The same goes for Intellegence, Hardiness, Defence, Assasination, Potion Making and Arcane Lore. First Aid appears to me to be utterly useless. Character Traits are a different matter. They can only be assigned at setup. A few "Abilities" come with particular Character Traits: Elite Warrior: Go BeserkDivinely Touched: Call Spirit, Layon Hands, Natural CuringBeastmaster: Summon BeastIn other cases abilities can only be learned from Mind Crystals in A1. :o Unlike A3 Natural Mage does not bring Restore Energy in A1 or A2. -------------------- My Avernum Walkthroughs Posts: 45 | Registered: Wednesday, June 21 2006 07:00 |
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Lifecrafter
Member # 6193
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written Sunday, March 4 2007 06:30
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If you look at the formulas for Magic Resistance, Poison Resistance, Resist Elements, and Willpower, you'll see that luck carries a good deal of weight in all of them. I find it worthwhile for this alone (in BoA at least) and lucking out of death is an added bonus. In the early goings, when resistant armors are hard to come by, one level of luck gives you 5% defense from just about everything. -------------------- Guaranteed to blow your mind. Frostbite: Get It While It's...... Hot? Posts: 900 | Registered: Monday, August 8 2005 07:00 |
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Raven v. Writing Desk
Member # 261
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written Sunday, March 4 2007 07:16
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How are those actually applied, though? I remember having a hard time finding a strong correlation between Magic Resistance and the damage I sustained from magic attacks. It doesn't resist 5% per point at any rate, I don't think. -------------------- Slarty vs. Desk • Desk vs. Slarty • Timeline of Ermarian • G4 Strategy Central Posts: 3560 | Registered: Wednesday, November 7 2001 08:00 |
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Lifecrafter
Member # 6403
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written Sunday, March 4 2007 08:59
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Maybe I'm confusing this with something else, but doesn't each point of resist give a 5% chance to resist each individual point seperately? As in, having 12 resist mind would allow you 12 5% checks to resist getting charmed. And repeat for each level of charm. [ Sunday, March 04, 2007 09:00: Message edited by: radix malorum est cupiditas ] -------------------- ??? ?????? ???? ????? Posts: 883 | Registered: Wednesday, October 19 2005 07:00 |
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Lifecrafter
Member # 6193
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written Sunday, March 4 2007 09:36
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I know in BoA the resistances are added into your totals from armor, enchantments, and everything else, so a point of resist elements is just as good as 5% resist ice and fire. How those resistances are applied is kind of messy, I know that even a character with over 100% resistance can take damage, but not much. I've heard it suggested that resistances are applied in 5% increments, like Infernal said. So you take 5% of the damage, then 5% of that, then 5%.... you get the picture. I haven't tested it myself. Still, resistances certainly have SOME effect, even if it isn't as high as the percentages would suggest. -------------------- Guaranteed to blow your mind. Frostbite: Get It While It's...... Hot? Posts: 900 | Registered: Monday, August 8 2005 07:00 |
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