A Question about the Slith and Nephilim
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| Author | Topic: A Question about the Slith and Nephilim |
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Warrior
Member # 5986
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written Friday, July 1 2005 19:44
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Aren't Slith full reptilian creatures? If that's the case, then they shouldn't need to wear loincloths. However, the Nephilim are mammals, I believe, and therefore should wear loincloths as humans do. This has always confused me somewhat. Can anyone clarify? Try to refrain from silly/borderline naughty answers, please. I'm trying to ask this as seriously as I possibly can. [ Friday, July 01, 2005 19:46: Message edited by: Slp006 ] -------------------- Wu wei... it's the only way Posts: 154 | Registered: Monday, June 20 2005 07:00 |
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...b10010b...
Member # 869
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written Friday, July 1 2005 20:07
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Well, in Exile, Slith graphics generally weren't depicted wearing anything. It's possible that they wear clothes mainly to keep warm -- they don't like the cold, and maybe some parts are more, er, sensitive to it than others. As for Nephilim, maybe they keep their wedding tackle in a little pouch when it's not in use; many other mammals do this. Or maybe it's just that Nephil culture doesn't object to them prancing about naked. [ Friday, July 01, 2005 20:09: Message edited by: Thuryl ] -------------------- The Empire Always Loses: This Time For Sure! Posts: 9973 | Registered: Saturday, March 30 2002 08:00 |
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Warrior
Member # 5986
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written Friday, July 1 2005 20:11
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Wedding tackle... that's hilarious... Well, I doubt a cloaca is very much more sensitive to cold then the rest of the body, and a loincloth only keeps a small area warm anyway. Ok, that makes sense for a male nephil. However, females are a different story altogether... the top shelf doesn't retract, does it? EDIT: Ah, ok, I saw the last bit of your post. You might be right about that. If I were a fur covered cat-creature, clothes would just seem pointless. :P [ Friday, July 01, 2005 20:13: Message edited by: Slp006 ] -------------------- Wu wei... it's the only way Posts: 154 | Registered: Monday, June 20 2005 07:00 |
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...b10010b...
Member # 869
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written Friday, July 1 2005 20:26
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It may be that Slith clothing serves to denote occupation or social status in some way. Note the Slith character portraits in BoA, for example; each slith wears a different, distinctive set of clothes, most of which appear to serve no significant practical purpose but each of which is quite recognisable. [ Friday, July 01, 2005 20:30: Message edited by: Thuryl ] -------------------- The Empire Always Loses: This Time For Sure! Posts: 9973 | Registered: Saturday, March 30 2002 08:00 |
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Warrior
Member # 5986
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written Friday, July 1 2005 20:38
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I had given that some thought as well, but then they all look like rags to me. Oh well, who am I to claim to know the intricacies of Slith attire? For all I know there might be deep meaning to the shape and color and so on. The loincloth still bothers me, in any case. A cloaca would most certainly not be on their frontside, if they are like the lizardfolk I am used to seeing on Earth. Ah well. I suppose the real answer is only known by Jeff. Maybe I'll drop him a line. -------------------- Wu wei... it's the only way Posts: 154 | Registered: Monday, June 20 2005 07:00 |
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...b10010b...
Member # 869
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written Friday, July 1 2005 20:43
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quote:Although all of the Slith PC graphics wear the loincloths, some of them also wear bits of cloth on their shoulders or around their necks. They certainly don't look as if they serve any useful function, which is what suggests to me that they may be ornamental or serve some other social function. -------------------- The Empire Always Loses: This Time For Sure! Posts: 9973 | Registered: Saturday, March 30 2002 08:00 |
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Law Bringer
Member # 335
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written Friday, July 1 2005 23:36
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Also note that slith PCs are those accustomed to living with and dealing with humans. Maybe clothes make humans think of sliths as more human-like and likeable. Maybe the sliths thought it was a neat idea for body ornamentation. (Do scales take tattoos very well? How about paint? Do sliths practice ritual scarification?)) If sliths are fully reptilian and ectothermic, a loincloth wouldn't do anything to keep them warm. If they are weakly endothermic, as the E3/A3 sliths in Upper Exile/Avernum suggest, then it makes some sense, but not much. Still, clothing is protective even if it's not worn for warmth, and it can have pockets and suchlike. Maybe sliths like being able to stick their daggers in something other than their waists. Nephilim have perfectly good fur. With a belt, bandoliers, pouches, and a pack, they're all set. They've got warmth, protection, and carrying capacity, and modesty if human society demands it. —Alorael, who thinks the more urgent question has to be why furries don't seem to come up. Is it less fun with real cats around, or are the nephilim prone to violently protecting the species barrier? Posts: 14579 | Registered: Saturday, December 1 2001 08:00 |
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Master
Member # 5977
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written Saturday, July 2 2005 06:32
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I don't think they have clothes because warmth or something like that. i think, because the sliths and Nephilim are mainly human like creatures, only they have other skins, like fur. maybe they are bigger or smaller, but actually they are just projections of humans in an other identity. because humans wear clothes, These human projections should have it to. re Byte?: I think that that's indeed a part of the puzzle why they wear clothes, but that they just wear clothes because of the reason I stated above. [ Saturday, July 02, 2005 06:35: Message edited by: Thralni ] -------------------- Play and rate my scenarios: Where the rivers meet View my upcoming scenario: The Nephil Search: Escape. Give us your drek! Posts: 3029 | Registered: Saturday, June 18 2005 07:00 |
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...b10010b...
Member # 869
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written Saturday, July 2 2005 16:15
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Um, I'm not sure what you mean. They're not "projections", whatever that means, they're a different species -- at least as far as the game world is concerned. If you want to speculate as to Jeff's personal psychological reasons for having them wear clothes, that's a separate question. [ Saturday, July 02, 2005 16:16: Message edited by: Thuryl ] -------------------- The Empire Always Loses: This Time For Sure! Posts: 9973 | Registered: Saturday, March 30 2002 08:00 |
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Law Bringer
Member # 335
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written Saturday, July 2 2005 16:44
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That still doesn't explain why only PC sliths and nephilim seem to go clothed. —Alorael, who brings up the vahnatai only to note that if he could wear vahnatai clothes he would. They're very stylish if you're a hundred pounds underweight. Posts: 14579 | Registered: Saturday, December 1 2001 08:00 |
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Master
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written Saturday, July 2 2005 22:19
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quote:Just look at the similarities between the sliths, Nephilim and humans. They all look very the same. they walk on two legs,also eat mostly human food, they use Nephilim. So why can't they wear clothes. Its almost the same story as the aliens: How do we imagine aliens? We give them two legs, two arms an head and two huge eyes. they also have clothes. That's what I mean with projections. The human fantasy is not really developed, you know. it takes some time until you find a writer or director who doesn't see aliens like this. they are just a sort of projections of the human race, modified in some way. the other monsters, like rats and the like we know. Thet are just three times as big. this probably all sounds philosifical, but I think that's a reason which I would accept for this question. -------------------- Play and rate my scenarios: Where the rivers meet View my upcoming scenario: The Nephil Search: Escape. Give us your drek! Posts: 3029 | Registered: Saturday, June 18 2005 07:00 |
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Law Bringer
Member # 335
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written Sunday, July 3 2005 10:54
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By projections you mean that they're bipedal humanoids? Okay, I'll grant you that. They are. I can give you three explanations. 1: Humanoids are both a staple of fantasy and easier to deal with, and there's probably a causal link between these two facts. In A2 and A3, it's much easier to program races when they all use the same equipment, eat the same food, and otherwise behave interchangeably. 2: Humans evolved into humanoids for a reason. Lizards and cats could evolve analogously. Well, not really, for a variety of biological reasons, but if they could they would. —Alorael, who can add one more reason. Humans tend to be more sympathetic to humanoids. Nobody feels any sympathy when slaughtering Gazers. Posts: 14579 | Registered: Saturday, December 1 2001 08:00 |
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Master
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written Sunday, July 3 2005 23:36
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quote:First off: were is the thirs reason? I most things i agree with you. I only find it very unimaginitive, all these humanoids. -------------------- Play and rate my scenarios: Where the rivers meet View my upcoming scenario: The Nephil Search: Escape. Give us your drek! Posts: 3029 | Registered: Saturday, June 18 2005 07:00 |
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...b10010b...
Member # 869
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written Monday, July 4 2005 00:16
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quote:In his signature. -------------------- The Empire Always Loses: This Time For Sure! Posts: 9973 | Registered: Saturday, March 30 2002 08:00 |
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Master
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written Monday, July 4 2005 03:31
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Why put it in your signature? and why starting with Aloreal (or something)? Does it have some hidden message which a new comer like me doesn't understand? -------------------- Play and rate my scenarios: Where the rivers meet View my upcoming scenario: The Nephil Search: Escape. Give us your drek! Posts: 3029 | Registered: Saturday, June 18 2005 07:00 |
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...b10010b...
Member # 869
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written Monday, July 4 2005 04:08
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He has a different signature for every post. It's his trademark, as you'll notice if you hang around and read a few more of his posts. And it starts with Alorael because that is his name. [ Monday, July 04, 2005 04:09: Message edited by: Thuryl ] -------------------- The Empire Always Loses: This Time For Sure! Posts: 9973 | Registered: Saturday, March 30 2002 08:00 |
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Warrior
Member # 4267
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written Friday, July 8 2005 16:58
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"Humanoid" evolution is most often used for two reason, one, the anthropomorphic principle [the robotics one, not the physics one], which states that the more human like something appears, the less negative the reaction to it will be [except when something is perfectly human, then it illicits a sharply negative reaction, because it starts to unnerve people.], and because it makes sense, bipedal evolution has many advantages over most other paths when concerning sentient life. 1. Standing upright allows for a higher vantage point, and thus a longer viewing distance. Very helpful when other things are still trying to eat you. 2. A bipedal, upright stance frees up the forlimbs, making them into "arms" which are by far the MOST helpful thing which can be evolved, hands allow tool use, writen language, mathematic [it started on the fingers people], and more importantly, weapons. Weapons increase your chance of surviving immensely. 3. The upright stance also increases the range of movement, as well as the ammount of momentum one can gather with that range of movement, for the now upper extremeties, making them even more effective at tool use and weapon use. Baring a strongly telekenetic presentient species, everything will evolve arms if possible. And yes, I am a furry. O.o; -------------------- If everyone would just forgive someone else, so much pain would be taken off of all of our shoulders... but as tenderness is a virtue it is also a failing, any who would do such a thing usually fall to those who wouldn't. - Ezrah Posts: 50 | Registered: Thursday, April 15 2004 07:00 |
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Shake Before Using
Member # 75
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written Friday, July 8 2005 17:18
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Ezrah, do you have to say that in every thread you post in? >_> quote:Close, but not precisely accurate. The reaction to something which is perfectly human is positive. The sharp drop is before that point, when something looks quite human but is missing some of the minor features of a real person. (For a clear example of this, look at how ugly Poser models seem to be.) Posts: 3234 | Registered: Thursday, October 4 2001 07:00 |
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...b10010b...
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written Friday, July 8 2005 17:45
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Mind you, the evolutionary arguments for bipedalism only apply to a land-based environment. In a water-like environment (the ocean, inside a gas giant, etc.), where appendages don't have to support their own weight, grasping tentacles make at least as much sense as arms. -------------------- The Empire Always Loses: This Time For Sure! Posts: 9973 | Registered: Saturday, March 30 2002 08:00 |
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Law Bringer
Member # 335
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written Friday, July 8 2005 18:47
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Separate digit, especially opposable ones, still have benefits in aquatic environments. —Alorael, who can't envision much fine manipulation with a single tentacle. Posts: 14579 | Registered: Saturday, December 1 2001 08:00 |
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...b10010b...
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written Friday, July 8 2005 22:10
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No reason why tentacles can't fork into smaller processes at the ends. The issue at hand is one of basic body plan, not fine structure. -------------------- The Empire Always Loses: This Time For Sure! Posts: 9973 | Registered: Saturday, March 30 2002 08:00 |
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Law Bringer
Member # 335
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written Saturday, July 9 2005 11:41
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quote:(I misunderstood the original problem, but hey, why ruin a good argument?) A sufficiently muscular tentacle would probably work on land. Tongues do. I don't know much about skeletomuscular issues, but tentacles could plausibly work on land with sufficient support. —Alorael, who can see more of an evolutionary problem there because arms evolve from quadripedal legs, which have to support a body's weight. Even the strongest tentacle might have trouble there. Wouldn't a sufficiently heavy non-swimming organism need skeletal support even underwater? Posts: 14579 | Registered: Saturday, December 1 2001 08:00 |
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Agent
Member # 4506
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written Saturday, July 9 2005 11:59
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Alo, Correct me if I'm wrong (I probably am), but isn't a skeletal frame easier to be crushed by the pressure underwater than something like a tentacle? So therefore a non-skeletal frame creature wouldn't evolve something underwater which can help it get crushed. On why they wear clothes: Maybe it's to do with the ammount of children (I'm a teenager) that play these games. JV can't exactly portray your PCs walking around in the nude - it would give a bad example. - Archmagus Micael -------------------- "You dare Trifle with Avernum?" ~ Erika the Archmage -------------------- My Scenarios: Undead Valley : A small Undead problem, what could possibly go wrong? -------------------- Richard Black - PROOF of his existance (the Infernal one's website). -------------------- MY FORUM! Randomosity at it's highest! :) Posts: 1370 | Registered: Thursday, June 10 2004 07:00 |
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...b10010b...
Member # 869
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written Saturday, July 9 2005 16:53
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quote:Oh, no doubt about it. An elephant's trunk is an even better example. The problem, as you point out, is making tentacles that can support your weight. Octopuses can "walk" along surfaces using their tentacles (and even travel along dry land for short distances), but in general it's not as efficient as using legs. [ Saturday, July 09, 2005 16:55: Message edited by: Thuryl ] -------------------- The Empire Always Loses: This Time For Sure! Posts: 9973 | Registered: Saturday, March 30 2002 08:00 |
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Law Bringer
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written Saturday, July 9 2005 17:58
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That's why I pointed out the tentacled quadruped problem. We're discussing bipeds, though, so if a creature could start out on two legs (as a bird, say), then grow tentacles for forearms, they would be just fine. They would, in fact, be all the rage in Japan, I gather, and possibly in some areas of Finland. —Alorael, who sees a new market for chimeras. Thuryl, your career is now set. Brush up on your genetics. Posts: 14579 | Registered: Saturday, December 1 2001 08:00 |