A4
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Shock Trooper
Member # 643
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written Thursday, July 21 2005 16:12
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Heck, even the story of the first Avernites, with a young King Micah(sp?), Erika, Patrick and them lot taking over the underworld from the demons. I could see you playing a party during that time that could actually win the scenerio, the First Expedition ... kind of just dies, painfully. -------------------- Fine Meal is people!!! Posts: 289 | Registered: Saturday, February 16 2002 08:00 |
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Shock Trooper
Member # 3513
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written Friday, July 22 2005 10:57
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It's no wonder they died, all that useless xian crap weighing them down. -------------------- Nobody appreciates me. It's all "Igor! Fetch some wine!" "Igor! Clean up this experiment!" or "Igor! Bury this in the garden, we're leaving town in 10 minutes!" —Alorael, who tried to become a deivore once. The priest gave him a funny look after the third wafer. Posts: 301 | Registered: Thursday, October 2 2003 07:00 |
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Shock Trooper
Member # 643
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written Friday, July 22 2005 11:45
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Um, I think we are talking about the first expedition into Avernum, the one you read about in Avernum 1 (well before X made the Xian items), not the first expedition onto the surface. Though maybe thats a possible scene too, who knows. -------------------- Fine Meal is people!!! Posts: 289 | Registered: Saturday, February 16 2002 08:00 |
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Warrior
Member # 497
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written Monday, July 25 2005 21:23
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Well, the problem with playing the First Expedition to Avernum is the obvious fact that you would have to play to lose if you wanted to preserve any continuity with the existing games. The problem with playing anything in Avernum after A2 is that Avernum has been covered twice now; everything that could be explored was explored, explored again, and if whatever baddie was in there wasn't cleaned out on the first shot, it was on the second (like the undead pit near Mertis). There's nothing left in Avernum that presents a significant challenge to anyone: the Slith Wars are over and most of the Sliths themselves are all gone, murdered by the thousands by the Empire; the Nephilim are either decidedly on Avernum's side or in small, isolated bands with no real structure or supply beyond basic subsistence; the dragons are all gone; the various undead problems have been sanctified out of existence or are about to be, because Avernum has quite a large number of competent magi and clerics--magic being, after all, Avernum's great strength; the Empire War is won and only isolated pockets of Empire resistance remain. Let's not also forget that Avernum and Valorim already have bands of exceptional adventurers trolling through, keeping things civil. It was said in A3 that the adventurers from A2 were still roving around, cleaning things up and protecting the state. The adventurers from A3 undoubtedly will do something similar in Valorim; not only are they the saviours of Avernum, they are the saviours of the Empire as well. They should have no trouble at all moving anywhere and doing anything that needs to be done (like, say, forcing a regime change in Gale). I look at the speculation that A4 would have to do with restless people being upset with the Empress for allying with Avernum, but it seems to me that allying with Avernum was be the best thing to solidify her power. Avernum has proven now that it can destroy the Empire (look at A2), save the Empire (A3), and that no one, and no one is protected from its exceedingly long reach (A1 and A2, with Hawthorne (on his own throne!) and Garzahd, respectively). With the rest of the Empire firmly under control, there is only one really feasible story on the surface: the dragons' revenge. It might be interesting to see how that plays out. The dragons will have their revenge, but with Avernum now allied with the Empire, would Avernum be obligated to come to the Empire's aid and slay the dragons? The problem with that is that it would make a nice scenario, but not much of a game. The continuation of the Vahnatai story might be another outlet, but it's been done, obviously. However, Bon-Ihrno said that there was a faction that opposed Rentar-Ihrno's methods. That faction was growing smaller, but that only means that it was growing more desperate. Plus, if The Valley of Dying Things is to be taken as canon, there are other factions of Vahnatai who've never encountered humans before. Maybe Rentar-Ihrno, seeing her plans in ashes, will go to them looking for help, only to find them aghast at her actions, if not her motives, and thus we have a problem best solved by Vahnatai adventurers (which, I think, would be cool in the utter extreme). The Sliths might be another way to go; they supposedly have a civilisation in caves even deeper than the Vahnatai (after all, one should bear in mind that Avernum covers old Vahnatai lands, and the current Vahnatai lands are only the next level down). [ Monday, July 25, 2005 21:25: Message edited by: Tom ] -------------------- Evil comes in many forms. I am but one of them. Posts: 116 | Registered: Monday, January 7 2002 08:00 |
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Lifecrafter
Member # 3171
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written Monday, July 25 2005 23:25
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What would be kind of fun is if people put their speculations and hopes of what they wanted from A4 into scenarios. It would be kind of fun to see who is the closest when the actual game is released. Obviously I don't mean the whole game type of thing, but maybe just a small section. Edit: I know this isn't the place for this sort of thing but still - 200! [ Monday, July 25, 2005 23:27: Message edited by: Kingy ] Posts: 776 | Registered: Friday, July 4 2003 07:00 |
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Triad Mage
Member # 7
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written Tuesday, July 26 2005 03:40
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Yes, the Rentar-Ihrno clan is only one clan of Vahnatai. There are other Vahnatai lands that are unexplored that could be the focus of Avernum 4. Or Avernum 4 could have nothing to do with Avernum or Avernites at all, and focus on problems that the Empire was having. -------------------- "At times discretion should be thrown aside, and with the foolish we should play the fool." - Menander ==== Drakefyre's Demesne - Happy Happy Joy Joy Encyclopedia Ermariana - Trapped in the Closet ==== You can take my Mac when you pry my cold, dead fingers off the mouse! Posts: 9436 | Registered: Wednesday, September 19 2001 07:00 |
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Off With Their Heads
Member # 4045
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written Tuesday, July 26 2005 06:39
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quote:According to ZKR, this isn't entirely true. The sliths come back a number of years after A3 and start a second war. I'm betting the vahnatai come back in A4 and try to destroy the Empire again. If so, I will be annoyed. -------------------- Arancaytar: Every time you ask people to compare TM and Kel, you endanger the poor, fluffy kittens. Smoo: Get ready to face the walls! Ephesos: In conclusion, yarr. Kelandon's Pink and Pretty Page!!: the authorized location for all things by me The Archive of all released BoE scenarios ever Posts: 7968 | Registered: Saturday, February 28 2004 08:00 |
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Shaper
Member # 3442
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written Tuesday, July 26 2005 06:39
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Maybe it could focus on the Empire's earlier days, when it wiped out the troglodytes the first time? I think that it will definately take place in one of the other continents. I don't know how, what with them being settled, but Valorim is old hat. And with the exception of Exile (which is a much better name than Avernum), Jeff hasn't used the same location twice in any of his games. Perhaps a pre- (or even post-) Empire world could work? -------------------- And when you want to Live How do you start? Where do you go? Who do you need to know? Posts: 2864 | Registered: Monday, September 8 2003 07:00 |
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Shock Trooper
Member # 3368
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written Tuesday, July 26 2005 11:26
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Yeah, I like the idea of being the original expedition into avernum. -------------------- "Like most of life's problems, this one can be solved with bending" Posts: 287 | Registered: Tuesday, August 19 2003 07:00 |
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Master
Member # 5977
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written Tuesday, July 26 2005 12:35
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quote:Now I really do agree with you, Kelandon. I hope he isn't going to change this, or it will ruin my Avernum pleasure. (this is also the reason I don't really like Geneforge). I actually hope that the only thing that will really change is the story, and not so much the game itself. -------------------- Play and rate my scenarios: Where the rivers meet View my upcoming scenario: The Nephil Search: Escape. Give us your drek! Posts: 3029 | Registered: Saturday, June 18 2005 07:00 |
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Law Bringer
Member # 335
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written Tuesday, July 26 2005 13:08
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A nitpick: Avernum hasn't proved that it can defeat the Empire. It has only proved that the Empire can't defeat it. A defensive war in singularly inhospitable territory is very different from attacking what amounts to the entire known world. Even the assassination is iffy. Hawthorne died at least in part because he was taken by surprise. Garzahd's death wasn't exactly subtle assassination. While adventurers are surprisingly good at slaughtering their way through an entire town/city/fortress/continent/world, Garzahd really should have made a surreptitious escape and left one of his body doubles. Even if all the sliths in Avernum are dead, there's still the main slith civilization. There are plenty of vahnatai left. There's sure to be more strange things lurking in the stygian depths of Avernum. And there are three continents of the Empire that haven't been touched, although they should have been fairly well demagicked and sanitized by years of occupation. —Alorael, who would also bet on vahnatai taking center stage again and who also would rather be wrong. Posts: 14579 | Registered: Saturday, December 1 2001 08:00 |
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Shock Trooper
Member # 3368
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written Tuesday, July 26 2005 13:30
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I would much rather have the game involve the vahnatai or a new unexplored part of Avernum. The vast underground cave setting is what set the Avernum series apart from most RPGs, and without it the game is kind of stupid. That's not to say that the engine isn't great (which it is) The engine is brilliant and I hope that Jeff makes few changes. -------------------- "Like most of life's problems, this one can be solved with bending" Posts: 287 | Registered: Tuesday, August 19 2003 07:00 |
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Infiltrator
Member # 6136
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written Tuesday, July 26 2005 14:12
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maybe could be a new part of avernum, that the empire used just as the other one without they know each other, the 2 parts could be neighbors or something like that. anyway the idea of a region under vahnatai lands is quite interesting.. Posts: 446 | Registered: Friday, July 22 2005 07:00 |
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Master
Member # 5977
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written Tuesday, July 26 2005 15:04
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As I already said, the story is what I want to see changed. By now, I think, the "Avernum vs the Empire" sort of thing is already done to much. We already were in the last stage of this story in BoA, and therefor, I think something new and maybe radical has to happen, to let things florish a bit. As was suggested, a new still undiscovered area of Avernum might be cool, but I think there should really be some new things about the Vahnatai. An ancient, very powerful society can't just disappear like that. It has to come back somehow. (Only this time, I hope there wouldn't be something like the second chapter of Av 2. Because that I found really irritating). -------------------- Play and rate my scenarios: Where the rivers meet View my upcoming scenario: The Nephil Search: Escape. Give us your drek! Posts: 3029 | Registered: Saturday, June 18 2005 07:00 |
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Infiltrator
Member # 6136
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written Wednesday, July 27 2005 08:32
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hey if in avernum there was demons, why in avernum 4 there isn´t angels or something like that? well i don't know it really...maybe is a stupid idea... Posts: 446 | Registered: Friday, July 22 2005 07:00 |
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Law Bringer
Member # 335
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written Wednesday, July 27 2005 13:23
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Because there have been demons all the way through, and because they are a staple of many mythologies and all generic fantasy, whereas angels tend to bring up a very specific mythology. The engine is getting more than "a few changes." We're getting a new engine, for good or for ill. We have been promised some "sparkly," though until there is further evidence it may be considered pure advertising lies. —Alorael, who would like to see an exploration of draconic sexuality with regards to their rather uncertain and changeable genders. That would make a good topic for A4 by itself! Posts: 14579 | Registered: Saturday, December 1 2001 08:00 |
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