Silly Request (to Jeff Vogel)

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AuthorTopic: Silly Request (to Jeff Vogel)
Shake Before Using
Member # 75
Profile #0
There's about no chance of this actually happening, but in my not at all humble opinion, the "ultimate potion" needs to be replaced in BoA.

It's a Potion of Invulnerability. Never mind that an earlier potion is easier to make and works better in every conceivable way (yes, it DOES give invulnerability, and for a greater duration), it's a potion of INVULNERABILITY, man!

Seriously, just put Knowledge Brews back in as creatable potions or something. They'd go a long way towards letting parties grow at high levels, when it takes a bazillion skill points to increase a stat by one point.
Posts: 3234 | Registered: Thursday, October 4 2001 07:00
Agent
Member # 27
Profile #1
Not a bad suggestion, but why not just email Jeff?
Posts: 1233 | Registered: Wednesday, October 3 2001 07:00
Shake Before Using
Member # 75
Profile #2
Wasn't at a computer where I had e-mail access at the time I wrote that message.

Still, I want to see (on the boards) if people think this is worth bothering Jeff over.
Posts: 3234 | Registered: Thursday, October 4 2001 07:00
Warrior
Member # 4710
Profile #3
I definitely concur with your feelings on the situation Imban, when I had first noticed the lack of the Knowledge Brew it was quite a let down. The late game power that a party with a large sum of cash and valuables that would be bartered to purchase potion ingredients just for the sake of upping stats that could cost into the twenties and thirties in skill points was a great benefit. It should still be a part of the gameplay because, as I see it, the option should at least be available to use for parties that want to buff their characters with something other than mindless fighting for a few measly points by the time a party reaches level forty-five. It just plain makes sense. :)

[ Tuesday, September 28, 2004 13:47: Message edited by: JMAN123 ]

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Life is short. Use a Mac.
Posts: 85 | Registered: Wednesday, July 14 2004 07:00
Guardian
Member # 2238
Profile Homepage #4
No, there's no point in "bothering" him. It's not like he'll actually change it. Not enough of his "paying customers" care/know what this is.

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DEMON PLAY,
DEMON OUT!
Posts: 1582 | Registered: Wednesday, November 13 2002 08:00
Agent
Member # 27
Profile #5
Is there a command for adding skill points? If so, then I smell a scenerio idea.
Posts: 1233 | Registered: Wednesday, October 3 2001 07:00
Warrior
Member # 3575
Profile #6
There is a reason that there is a editor. You can raise your skill points on all your stats and even give yourself almost any item in the game including the knowledge brew.
Posts: 72 | Registered: Sunday, October 19 2003 07:00
Shake Before Using
Member # 75
Profile #7
Well, it's more that the Potion of Invulnerability is both harder to make and worse than a potion you can make with less skill.
Posts: 3234 | Registered: Thursday, October 4 2001 07:00
BANNED
Member # 4623
Profile Homepage #8
No need for creatable Knowledge Brews, actually. Just visit TM's Artifact Hall and grab the EVERLASTING BALU'S ELIXIR with you. ^^

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The Great Mister

kommari@gmail.com[/url]
Posts: 417 | Registered: Sunday, June 27 2004 07:00
Shake Before Using
Member # 75
Profile #9
I guess you're all right. It's easier to just be a dirty cheater about it in this case. >_>
Posts: 3234 | Registered: Thursday, October 4 2001 07:00
Apprentice
Member # 4552
Profile #10
On this one, I totally agree with Imban.

Free the Knowledge Brew!

:P

In my mind, cheating eliminates fun. And how boring would entering in A.H. hundreds of times be!

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Funny how it all falls away... ;_;
Posts: 48 | Registered: Wednesday, June 16 2004 07:00
Infiltrator
Member # 148
Profile #11
Future scenarios could have custom ability to create Knowledge Brews.

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My ego is bigger than yours.
Posts: 480 | Registered: Thursday, October 11 2001 07:00
Warrior
Member # 4987
Profile Homepage #12
Why is this still even under debate? Yes it would be cool to make them, but if you design a scenario you can:
A. Make a special ability
B. Put them into your scenario frequently enough that you don't have to make them
C. Put training halls or such that allow you to gain experience quickly for a price.

Do I really need to continue?
Posts: 60 | Registered: Sunday, September 19 2004 07:00
...b10010b...
Member # 869
Profile Homepage #13
Hey, that's a good point. Since we can now check any stat, it's possible to have all sorts of custom potions, and have the ability to make them depend on Potion Making skill.

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The Empire Always Loses: This Time For Sure!
Posts: 9973 | Registered: Saturday, March 30 2002 08:00
Apprentice
Member # 4533
Profile #14
I think the problem with knowledge brew being a brewable potion would be the problem the game has when dealing with certain stats that go over 100 (I think its 100). Maybe if this problem was removed having knowledge brew back wouldn't put someone in this position. I still feel, however, it should have been in the game. Why only have it brewable in a few scenarios that if we want more, we'd have to finish/quit the scenario in then go back to the other scenario, make the potions, finish and quit again and go back to the original scenario we were playing. What a pain in the neck that seems already and I haven't even had to try it.
Posts: 37 | Registered: Sunday, June 13 2004 07:00
...b10010b...
Member # 869
Profile Homepage #15
I don't think the high-stat thing will be a problem; it'll take over 5000 skill points to train any stat to 100.

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The Empire Always Loses: This Time For Sure!
Posts: 9973 | Registered: Saturday, March 30 2002 08:00
BANNED
Member # 4623
Profile Homepage #16
quote:
Originally written by bobleblob:

..and how boring would entering in A.H. hundreds of times be!
I don't quite get what you're after. The potion in AH is infinite, no need to re-visit because of it..

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The Great Mister

kommari@gmail.com[/url]
Posts: 417 | Registered: Sunday, June 27 2004 07:00
Apprentice
Member # 4533
Profile #17
quote:
Originally written by Prince Albert in a Can:

I don't think the high-stat thing will be a problem; it'll take over 5000 skill points to train any stat to 100.
So just because something isn't attainable in theory, it isn't a problem? Jee, wish I subscribed to that chain of thought. This wasn't a problem in the other 3 Avernum games (to my knowledge) and due to BoA's very nature it isn't too hard to get a character to the point where skills are resetting to 0 whenever the game checks them because of some weird problem/bug where it can't handle a value of over a 100. Why not just reset the value to 100 instead of 0? Why even allow skills to be trainable to push skills affected by them over 100 in the first place? I'm sorry, it just seems very poorly done to me and even more so condsidering the problem never came up in the previous Avernum games (where it is harder/impossible unless you use the character editor). In theory, you COULD get all skills maxed out with Knowledge Brew, or just even in a scenario where such items exist (i.e the infinite balm thingy in the Artifact Hall), so why not allow the program to let people have such stats and not just reset them down to 0?
Posts: 37 | Registered: Sunday, June 13 2004 07:00
Agent
Member # 4506
Profile Homepage #18
This is POINTLESS!

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Posts: 1370 | Registered: Thursday, June 10 2004 07:00
Warrior
Member # 3575
Profile #19
I don't see why you keep going on about the potion, Once you get stats of 20 everything gets easy so it turn out to be no fun.
Posts: 72 | Registered: Sunday, October 19 2003 07:00
Apprentice
Member # 4533
Profile #20
What is pointless, Knowledge brew or a problem in the game that may not be experienced unless you wait until the moon is in the Somerandom sigh of the zodiac, the river runs backwards and you must do an intricate shamanic ritual?

To me, both aren't pointless. Knowledge Brew was a great part of A3 to me and I firmly say that the problem with high skills in BoA is a problem, even if most people won't experience it. Most bug fixes for games that I read (yes I rather enjoy reading bug fix logs) are bugs that can take an hour+ to setup, but they still fixed them just in case someone might do that.

Pointlessness is in the eye of the beholder, what is pointless to you is of the highest importance to me. Now, if you'll excuse me the moon is almost in the right position (gets shaman costume ready).....
Posts: 37 | Registered: Sunday, June 13 2004 07:00
...b10010b...
Member # 869
Profile Homepage #21
Solymr, I'm not saying the problem shouldn't be fixed if it can be. I'm just saying it's not necessarily a reason to keep Knowledge Brew out of your scenarios. After all, in theory, characters can get that many skill points by gaining hundreds of experience levels as well.

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The Empire Always Loses: This Time For Sure!
Posts: 9973 | Registered: Saturday, March 30 2002 08:00
Apprentice
Member # 4533
Profile #22
Thats my biggest problem with it, its a problem that can be easily attained by a player through many means. Its doable with the bundled character editor and I have no doubt its doable in scripts either (Actually it can, the HLPM comes to mind.) Even if you consider these things "cheating" and that is the reason behind the certain skills resetting to 0, you have to bear in mind that they force you stop "cheating" in a rather crude manner.

RebelK418, I agree that getting to 20 in most skills makes it easier, but that isn't a reason why people shouldn't progress in their skills further, if the game allows them to train them higher. If having 100+ in any resistance/lores forces the game to reset those resistances/lores to 0, why allow someone to train to 100 in the skills that contribute to making them over 100+ in the first place?

Back on topic, I really do miss Knowledge Brew. Some may say it isn't needed, some may say it might disrupt the ballance of things, but it helped me out greatly in the past and I can think of a great deal of times that it could have helped make some situations not so damned difficult.
Posts: 37 | Registered: Sunday, June 13 2004 07:00
Off With Their Heads
Member # 4045
Profile Homepage #23
I'm surprised I didn't notice this thread before. It is remarkably incoherent.

First, I would really like to figure out exactly what it is that makes BoA thinks the save file is corrupt and resets skills back to 0. I think it's a certain trained value of a skill, possibly 100+, but I'm not entirely sure. I tried mucking around with this a little bit for the HLPM, but I didn't perform elaborate enough experiments. I think I'll do this at some point.

Second, yes, at least make it an Invulnerability Exilir or something. An Invulnerability Potion is less effective than a Protection Brew.

Third, we can only have four custom abilities. The fact that something can in theory be made into a custom ability is not a perfect solution for anything.

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Arancaytar: Every time you ask people to compare TM and Kel, you endanger the poor, fluffy kittens.
Smoo: Get ready to face the walls!
Ephesos: In conclusion, yarr.

Kelandon's Pink and Pretty Page!!: the authorized location for all things by me
The Archive of all released BoE scenarios ever
Posts: 7968 | Registered: Saturday, February 28 2004 08:00
Apprentice
Member # 4533
Profile #24
You're right Kelandon, whenever a "useful skill" such as rune reading, item lore or any of the resistances or willpower goes over 100 the game thinks the value is corrupted and resets it to 0, basically nerfing your character in that aspect in the process. Its very very irritating. I'll see if I can get the exact text from the game, but since its 2am and I've got work tommorow I won't have any time till tommorow night. Its easy to get however, just raise all your skills in the character editor, load the game up and go to your characters info. The game should reset all resistances down to 0% instantly and whenever your character would try to ID an item, your item lore is also nerfed. It seems to only happen when the game "checks" each value for use, but I'm not entirely sure of this.
Posts: 37 | Registered: Sunday, June 13 2004 07:00

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