Is it just me, or is magic pathetically weak in this game?

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AuthorTopic: Is it just me, or is magic pathetically weak in this game?
Shock Trooper
Member # 461
Profile #0
I downloaded the demo, almost finished with VoDT, and so far I've found that direct-damage spells are nearly useless. They do very little damage and cost a ton of mana. I mean, come on - firebolt lvl2 doesn't even kill a gremlin or goblin fighter, and my mage's mage skill + intelligence is 16! The only time I use damage spells is for mopping up. Does magic get stronger later on, or are spells always weak? Priest spells are obviously very useful for buffing and healing your fighters, but mages seem very underpowered.

[ Thursday, July 01, 2004 12:45: Message edited by: Jawaj ]

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"If you held a weapon to Fwiffo's head, he would say anything you wanted him to. In fact, if you held a vegetable to Fwiffo's head, he'd say whatever you wanted him to." - Spathi high council, Star Control 2.
Posts: 346 | Registered: Sunday, December 30 2001 08:00
Warrior
Member # 4600
Profile #1
Just wait, when you get arcane blow it does over 100 damage to multiple people. ice lances, lighting lances, and fire bolts all do the same to a lesser degree, arcane summon lets you summon vampires who can summon more vampires.

My favorite preist spell is cloud of blades, it takes out a percentage of a monsters original health, so a monster with 1000 life gets like 300-200 damage

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Life is full with strife, without it there would be no knife, see no movement, rent no rage, keeping the emotions in the cage, hoping to be a sage and release it all in a magical way, then stall to runaway, from the death and decay.
Posts: 50 | Registered: Tuesday, June 22 2004 07:00
...b10010b...
Member # 869
Profile Homepage #2
Bolt of Fire is always pretty useless. Ice Lances is moderately useful, and Lightning Spray and Fireblast are very useful. Arcane Blow is powerful, but I prefer the other damaging spells because AB is expensive and only has a small number of targets.
Posts: 9973 | Registered: Saturday, March 30 2002 08:00
Warrior
Member # 4631
Profile #3
I find direct damage magic to be indispensible from the beginning onward... I always start with an ice-lance capable mage. Priests to me seem to be underpowered... I hardly ever have to do emergency healing, and when I do a quick potion will suffice.

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"'I saw the duckling hatch and disappear.
Sadly I ask who may have taken it.'"
Posts: 67 | Registered: Monday, June 28 2004 07:00
Warrior
Member # 286
Profile #4
I use my priest constantly. Without her, my fighters would die in about two turns in some fights. Occasionally I even have to haste her so she can heal AND bless every turn. Or so she could heal both fighters at once, before I got Mass Healing. Or in case there are undead around, so she can cast Repel Spirit and heal at the same time. Or so she can help my mage out with the damage-dealing spells. (Divine Fire can be verrry useful, especially when the only fire spell your mage has is fire bolt. The energy cost is harsh, but that's why you get alchemy.) Or... you get the picture. :D Oh, and I always carry around a stack of energy elixirs and potions so that I can keep up my constant healing and barrages of offensive spells.

So, uh... yeah. Priests, underpowered?! :)

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Z: "I just feel so insignificant."
Psych: "You ARE. You're an ANT."
--Antz
Posts: 104 | Registered: Saturday, November 17 2001 08:00
Warrior
Member # 4631
Profile #5
Good points, all. I guess priests just aren't my style (except for the indispensible repel spirit of course, I forgot about that one).

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"'I saw the duckling hatch and disappear.
Sadly I ask who may have taken it.'"
Posts: 67 | Registered: Monday, June 28 2004 07:00
BANNED
Member # 4
Profile Homepage #6
I was always hoping that Jeff would bring back Divine Warrior.

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Posts: 6936 | Registered: Tuesday, September 18 2001 07:00
Warrior
Member # 4484
Profile #7
Divine Warrior was a too powerfull spell.Now, the game is just well balanced, I think...

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"Il est interdit de se battre sur le Champ du Massacre; dit-il avant de marquer une pause, le temps de reflechir a la logique de ses propos."

Discworld, The Colour of Magic
Posts: 178 | Registered: Monday, June 7 2004 07:00
Shock Trooper
Member # 4239
Profile #8
Bah. What's so overpowered about 10AP each turn and a fighter that's nearly impossible to hit? :P

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There are two kinds of game players...those who are newbies, and those who were.
Posts: 322 | Registered: Monday, April 12 2004 07:00
Warrior
Member # 4631
Profile #9
Hey, you've almost got that if you care to invest in fast on feet, quick hit, parry, and then equip the vampiress dress. I just love the image of my strapping cat warrior whirling around in an evening gown.

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"'I saw the duckling hatch and disappear.
Sadly I ask who may have taken it.'"
Posts: 67 | Registered: Monday, June 28 2004 07:00
Warrior
Member # 2838
Profile #10
The spell that I really miss is the one that was like Major Blessing from Exile but you were only able to perform it if there weren't monsters nearby. It was replaced with Force Cage which is pretty useless in my opinion.

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Posts: 118 | Registered: Wednesday, April 2 2003 08:00
Shock Trooper
Member # 3276
Profile #11
quote:
Originally written by magoicochea:

The spell that I really miss is the one that was like Major Blessing from Exile but you were only able to perform it if there weren't monsters nearby. It was replaced with Force Cage which is pretty useless in my opinion.
By the time the monsters were in view the effects were already worn off! At least forcecage you can do something with.
AND I dont mind having a powerful wizard forcecaged while I take care of other lesser monsters. Wizards have little strength, so we wont be seeing them heal anytime soon.. :)
I do miss the spell Bind Foe. Spray Acid, well, ya. :rolleyes:
Posts: 249 | Registered: Saturday, July 26 2003 07:00
Apprentice
Member # 2737
Profile #12
My mage can turn the tide of a battle by hasting herself and throwing two Lightning Sprays per turn. Can weed out the riff-raff very quickly. The fighters (blessed by the Priest) are the only ones who can take out bosses though.
Posts: 22 | Registered: Tuesday, March 4 2003 08:00
Shock Trooper
Member # 461
Profile #13
quote:
By the time the monsters were in view the effects were already worn off! At least forcecage you can do something with.
That's why you close the door and then use beast ceremony...duh. Or you can use it right before an outdoor fight. Beast Ceremony is SO much better than forcecage. I think it should have been kept, but with a somewhat higher mana cost and slightly shorter haste duration.

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"If you held a weapon to Fwiffo's head, he would say anything you wanted him to. In fact, if you held a vegetable to Fwiffo's head, he'd say whatever you wanted him to." - Spathi high council, Star Control 2.
Posts: 346 | Registered: Sunday, December 30 2001 08:00
Warrior
Member # 4484
Profile #14
Bah, with the priest's blessing, and some haste, you can have kind of the same effect, nah?
It just takes more time to cast the spells...

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"Il est interdit de se battre sur le Champ du Massacre; dit-il avant de marquer une pause, le temps de reflechir a la logique de ses propos."

Discworld, The Colour of Magic
Posts: 178 | Registered: Monday, June 7 2004 07:00
Off With Their Heads
Member # 4045
Profile Homepage #15
Beast Ceremony was utterly useless. I got the same effects (but for longer) by casting Bless and Haste manually. I experimented with it a few times, but I never found it worthwhile.

Forcecage can be useful if you know when to use it. Sometimes I just need to get an enemy out of the way for a couple of turns.

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Arancaytar: Every time you ask people to compare TM and Kel, you endanger the poor, fluffy kittens.
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Kelandon's Pink and Pretty Page!!: the authorized location for all things by me
The Archive of all released BoE scenarios ever
Posts: 7968 | Registered: Saturday, February 28 2004 08:00
Shaper
Member # 22
Profile #16
I found Beast Ceremony useful as a singleton, casting it before outdoor battles. As for Major Blessing, I found it one of the more useless spells in Exile - the bless it cast on you was pathetic, and overrid your previous blesses.
Posts: 2862 | Registered: Tuesday, October 2 2001 07:00
Apprentice
Member # 2737
Profile #17
Am I correct that there is now no way to Haste your entire party at once?
Posts: 22 | Registered: Tuesday, March 4 2003 08:00
...b10010b...
Member # 869
Profile Homepage #18
Seems like it. I always try to carry at least one Hasting Potion on each character, for emergencies.
Posts: 9973 | Registered: Saturday, March 30 2002 08:00
Agent
Member # 4506
Profile Homepage #19
At high spell levels even the most useless spellcaster can kill things easily. Unless ofcourse you meet one of those lethal Skelton Javelineers from DwD.

Warriors are fair,
Mages are good,
Priests are needed,
Archers are Dangerous,
But Archmages, Archpriests, or Archwizards rule!

But everyone to their own tastes.

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"You dare Trifle with Avernum?" ~ Erika the Archmage
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My Scenarios:
Undead Valley : A small Undead problem, what could possibly go wrong?
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Richard Black - PROOF of his existance (the Infernal one's website).
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MY FORUM! Randomosity at it's highest! :)
Posts: 1370 | Registered: Thursday, June 10 2004 07:00
Apprentice
Member # 3820
Profile Homepage #20
yeah sure NOT my soldiers are killing things with a hit of 100 dmg or so and my wizards 30 dmg theres a big differance

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(snappy remark)your mother(/snappy remark)(/bush)
Posts: 35 | Registered: Wednesday, December 24 2003 08:00
Agent
Member # 4506
Profile Homepage #21
quote:
Originally written by hani:

yeah sure NOT my soldiers are killing things with a hit of 100 dmg or so and my wizards 30 dmg theres a big differance
If you have registered (and are willing to cheat), you can enter Diplomacy With Dead, learn all of the Super-Powerful spells. Use the editor to get more gold, learn better levels... And then your mages and priests will be the most powerful available... Trust Me!

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"You dare Trifle with Avernum?" ~ Erika the Archmage
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My Scenarios:
Undead Valley : A small Undead problem, what could possibly go wrong?
--------------------
Richard Black - PROOF of his existance (the Infernal one's website).
--------------------
MY FORUM! Randomosity at it's highest! :)
Posts: 1370 | Registered: Thursday, June 10 2004 07:00
Warrior
Member # 4484
Profile #22
Aya, Michael, is it you're sugestion? :)

Of course, like in all RPG's, on computer, or on paper (you know, stuff like AD&D), the magic-users need a lot more time to be powerfull, but when they are, nothing can stop tem!

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"Il est interdit de se battre sur le Champ du Massacre; dit-il avant de marquer une pause, le temps de reflechir a la logique de ses propos."

Discworld, The Colour of Magic
Posts: 178 | Registered: Monday, June 7 2004 07:00
Agent
Member # 4506
Profile Homepage #23
It's Micael, Not Michael, but yeah,

Magic users are the most important thing in Blades of Avernum. Some scenarios won't be winnable without magic. And anyway. It's fairly easy to get major magic once you are powerful enough to take on the big league scenarios. (Like this Tournament-Demons scenario I've just heard about. I mean - one town - lots of evil demons. You need a high level party - but once you're there with a high level party - there's sure to be good rewards). Play Diplomacy with Dead. In the major city there is a Super Priest and a Super Mage, all of which will teach you Super Spells, (for a SUPER SUPER) price...

- Kep on trying for magical supremity. It's the thing!

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"You dare Trifle with Avernum?" ~ Erika the Archmage
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My Scenarios:
Undead Valley : A small Undead problem, what could possibly go wrong?
--------------------
Richard Black - PROOF of his existance (the Infernal one's website).
--------------------
MY FORUM! Randomosity at it's highest! :)
Posts: 1370 | Registered: Thursday, June 10 2004 07:00
...b10010b...
Member # 869
Profile Homepage #24
Even if that's true (and really, your mages should be doing more damage than that with most spells against most monsters), consider the following factors:

Mage spells can attack from a distance and never miss. It can take fighters a full round or more just to get to their opponents.

All the good offensive mage spells hit multiple targets. Consider a battle with a group of, say, 6 weak monsters. It'll take a fighter at least 3 rounds to finish them all off even if he's hasted, but two castings of Lightning Spray from a hasted mage will probably kill all of them. Stronger monsters might require more spells, but it'll take the fighters more than 1 hit to kill them too.

On the other hand, mage spells cost spell energy and some monsters are highly resistant to some or all magic. Mages do best against large groups of monsters, while fighters do best against single opponents. In fact, mages are usually reduced to a purely supportive role in boss fights, which is why it's a good idea to give mages a few levels of priest spells (enough to cast Mass Healing is probably sufficient).

Of course, you're free to make a party without mages if you think that's best. If you do, best of luck to you. In fact, the first party I made in BoA contained three fighters and only a single spellcaster, a combined mage/priest/alchemist. I completed all of the four original scenarios with it, needing to use the character editor only once.
Posts: 9973 | Registered: Saturday, March 30 2002 08:00

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