HLPM update

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AuthorTopic: HLPM update
Off With Their Heads
Member # 4045
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New version available here.

List of changes (from the readme): 1/13/07 - v1.2.3 - Updated the Library. Updated the documentation. Finally got everything I'd like for god parties. Fixed lighting issues. Added a crystal soul that sells skills.

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Arancaytar: Every time you ask people to compare TM and Kel, you endanger the poor, fluffy kittens.
Smoo: Get ready to face the walls!
Ephesos: In conclusion, yarr.

Kelandon's Pink and Pretty Page!!: the authorized location for all things by me
The Archive of all released BoE scenarios ever
Posts: 7968 | Registered: Saturday, February 28 2004 08:00
Lifecrafter
Member # 6193
Profile Homepage #1
Better god gear and more books; I am well pleased.

[ Saturday, January 13, 2007 16:13: Message edited by: National Champion UF Gators-- Again ]

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Guaranteed to blow your mind.

Frostbite: Get It While It's...... Hot?
Posts: 900 | Registered: Monday, August 8 2005 07:00
Councilor
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Okay, slight bug. My new god party went to the Arena Center to try out their new skills against some dragons and were promptly hit by this error message:

t5Arena Error: Too many nodes used in line 288. Seems like you hit an infinite loop.

This didn't happen when my non-god party checked the Arena Center without a combat.

Other than that, it looks excellent.

Dikiyoba.
Posts: 4346 | Registered: Friday, December 23 2005 08:00
Off With Their Heads
Member # 4045
Profile Homepage #3
quote:
Originally written by Dikiyoba:

My new god party went to the Arena Center to try out their new skills against some dragons and were promptly hit by this error message:
Oops. Duh. Fix uploaded. The version up now should work.

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Arancaytar: Every time you ask people to compare TM and Kel, you endanger the poor, fluffy kittens.
Smoo: Get ready to face the walls!
Ephesos: In conclusion, yarr.

Kelandon's Pink and Pretty Page!!: the authorized location for all things by me
The Archive of all released BoE scenarios ever
Posts: 7968 | Registered: Saturday, February 28 2004 08:00
Shake Before Using
Member # 75
Profile #4
Nioca-Bok...? :P

While I've been abstaining from using any the HLPM's stores in my solo plays, this is deeeeeefinitely one I'm going to stay away from, I think. Raising all of my stats with the ridiculous amount of money I have now would be, well, ridiculous.
Posts: 3234 | Registered: Thursday, October 4 2001 07:00
Off With Their Heads
Member # 4045
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It's a feature by request!

Eh. I wasn't sure how to handle it, but I made sure that the skills were pretty expensive. BoA's default handling of skill cost is kinda wonky, though.

--------------------
Arancaytar: Every time you ask people to compare TM and Kel, you endanger the poor, fluffy kittens.
Smoo: Get ready to face the walls!
Ephesos: In conclusion, yarr.

Kelandon's Pink and Pretty Page!!: the authorized location for all things by me
The Archive of all released BoE scenarios ever
Posts: 7968 | Registered: Saturday, February 28 2004 08:00
Shake Before Using
Member # 75
Profile #6
I'm not saying it's going to lead to terribly overpowered parties in general. I'm saying that I have over 50000 spare gold to spend on each of my 1 PC parties and if I dump all of that into skills bad things will happen to my enemies. :P
Posts: 3234 | Registered: Thursday, October 4 2001 07:00
...b10010b...
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I don't foresee sellable skills being a balance problem. Cash is pretty tight for HLPM-generated parties, especially at high levels -- once you've bought all the spells you need, there's not much left.

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The Empire Always Loses: This Time For Sure!
Posts: 9973 | Registered: Saturday, March 30 2002 08:00
Shaper
Member # 7472
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That, and even if you have over 50000 gold, it'd soon be gone. Buying skills are expensive, to the point that buying a single level can easily cost upwards of 1000 gold, even when it's extremely cheap.

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Scenarios need reviews! Please rate these scenarios at the CSR after playing them!
AmnesiaDileciaThe Empire's New GroveExpress Delivery
Twilight ValleyWitch HuntWhere the Rivers Meet
Posts: 2686 | Registered: Friday, September 8 2006 07:00
Shock Trooper
Member # 6821
Profile #9
quote:
Originally written by Cryptozoology:

I don't foresee sellable skills being a balance problem. Cash is pretty tight for HLPM-generated parties, especially at high levels -- once you've bought all the spells you need, there's not much left.
Agreed. In fact, cash is probably the main reason why HLPM-made parties tend to be underpowered.
Posts: 363 | Registered: Wednesday, February 22 2006 08:00
Off With Their Heads
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This version of the HLPM explicitly says that it is intended to be used in conjunction with the Artifacts Hall, for that very reason. I thought about rebalancing the HLPM, but then I realized that I don't need to.

--------------------
Arancaytar: Every time you ask people to compare TM and Kel, you endanger the poor, fluffy kittens.
Smoo: Get ready to face the walls!
Ephesos: In conclusion, yarr.

Kelandon's Pink and Pretty Page!!: the authorized location for all things by me
The Archive of all released BoE scenarios ever
Posts: 7968 | Registered: Saturday, February 28 2004 08:00
Shock Trooper
Member # 6821
Profile #11
quote:
Originally written by Kelandon:

This version of the HLPM explicitly says that it is intended to be used in conjunction with the Artifacts Hall, for that very reason. I thought about rebalancing the HLPM, but then I realized that I don't need to.
Unless you plan on entering the AH several times, the parties are still massively underpowered. 'Normal' parties are always more powerful and always get a lot more money, Artifacts Hall or not.
Posts: 363 | Registered: Wednesday, February 22 2006 08:00
Off With Their Heads
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Profile Homepage #12
I don't think you're really right about that (given my own playing experience — "massively underpowered" is simply false), but I haven't done a detailed study. If others agree, I can simply up the cash given by the HLPM (it's a single number).

[ Sunday, January 14, 2007 06:16: Message edited by: Kelandon ]

--------------------
Arancaytar: Every time you ask people to compare TM and Kel, you endanger the poor, fluffy kittens.
Smoo: Get ready to face the walls!
Ephesos: In conclusion, yarr.

Kelandon's Pink and Pretty Page!!: the authorized location for all things by me
The Archive of all released BoE scenarios ever
Posts: 7968 | Registered: Saturday, February 28 2004 08:00
Shock Trooper
Member # 6821
Profile #13
Given my own playing experience, 'massively underpowered' is certainly true, to the point of making some scenarios nearly unwinnable (especially TM's scenarios). Maybe it's because I'm quite a thorough player and/or tend to pick up and sell everything that's worth more than 8 coins, which really adds up after a while, but I suspect even a lazy player will agree that you aren't given enough cash. I bought nearly every level of every spell in ASR, and I still ended up with lots of potions, and quite a bit of money and equipment - much more than I could ever have had using the HLPM.
Posts: 363 | Registered: Wednesday, February 22 2006 08:00
Councilor
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I'll second (or third or whatever number) the need for more money. The HLPM just doesn't give quite enough money for my scavenge-everything-and-buy-lots-of-spells playing style.

Dikiyoba.
Posts: 4346 | Registered: Friday, December 23 2005 08:00
Shaper
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I think the money limit is fine, should you have one or two PCs. However, the budget starts getting a little tight when you have to spread the money amongst four PCs. So essentially, I think that you should get a little extra money per level if you have a larger party.

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Scenarios need reviews! Please rate these scenarios at the CSR after playing them!
AmnesiaDileciaThe Empire's New GroveExpress Delivery
Twilight ValleyWitch HuntWhere the Rivers Meet
Posts: 2686 | Registered: Friday, September 8 2006 07:00
Off With Their Heads
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Profile Homepage #16
Nioca is probably on the right track, here. The HLPM currently gives 1000 per level. I think I'll add 500 more per extra character in the party above 1 (so a 4-person party would get 2500 per level).

I flatly deny that this extra money is necessary when the HLPM is used in conjunction with the Artifacts Hall, but I'll include it because of demand.

EDIT: Yeah, new version up now (check the readme to note that it is v1.2.3.2). It... um... should work. BoA has some baneful limits that messed quite a bit with the process, but I think I've got it working now.

[ Sunday, January 14, 2007 13:17: Message edited by: Kelandon ]

--------------------
Arancaytar: Every time you ask people to compare TM and Kel, you endanger the poor, fluffy kittens.
Smoo: Get ready to face the walls!
Ephesos: In conclusion, yarr.

Kelandon's Pink and Pretty Page!!: the authorized location for all things by me
The Archive of all released BoE scenarios ever
Posts: 7968 | Registered: Saturday, February 28 2004 08:00
Off With Their Heads
Member # 4045
Profile Homepage #17
I take it that all meets with approval now?

--------------------
Arancaytar: Every time you ask people to compare TM and Kel, you endanger the poor, fluffy kittens.
Smoo: Get ready to face the walls!
Ephesos: In conclusion, yarr.

Kelandon's Pink and Pretty Page!!: the authorized location for all things by me
The Archive of all released BoE scenarios ever
Posts: 7968 | Registered: Saturday, February 28 2004 08:00
Shaper
Member # 7472
Profile Homepage #18
Yeah. Though I'm a little surprised at your definition of 'little'. :)

--------------------
Scenarios need reviews! Please rate these scenarios at the CSR after playing them!
AmnesiaDileciaThe Empire's New GroveExpress Delivery
Twilight ValleyWitch HuntWhere the Rivers Meet
Posts: 2686 | Registered: Friday, September 8 2006 07:00
Councilor
Member # 6600
Profile Homepage #19
Okay, new issue. God parties don't learn the first three mage and priest spells.

Dikiyoba.
Posts: 4346 | Registered: Friday, December 23 2005 08:00
Off With Their Heads
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Odd. That's a typo in the script. Easily fixed.

--------------------
Arancaytar: Every time you ask people to compare TM and Kel, you endanger the poor, fluffy kittens.
Smoo: Get ready to face the walls!
Ephesos: In conclusion, yarr.

Kelandon's Pink and Pretty Page!!: the authorized location for all things by me
The Archive of all released BoE scenarios ever
Posts: 7968 | Registered: Saturday, February 28 2004 08:00
Shake Before Using
Member # 75
Profile #21
Since it came up in the Exodus thread, maybe you could consider capping the learning of Summon Shade to level 5 for any level of party, including god.

I'm not sure if any other spells are likewise bugged, although I know certain levels of Far Sight behave oddly.
Posts: 3234 | Registered: Thursday, October 4 2001 07:00
...b10010b...
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I'd presume that Divine Host does the same thing.

I'm not sure it's necessary to limit it for god parties, though. They can already break scenarios. :P

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The Empire Always Loses: This Time For Sure!
Posts: 9973 | Registered: Saturday, March 30 2002 08:00
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quote:
Originally written by Imban:

Since it came up in the Exodus thread, maybe you could consider capping the learning of Summon Shade to level 5 for any level of party, including god.
He's not concerned.

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Guaranteed to blow your mind.

Frostbite: Get It While It's...... Hot?
Posts: 900 | Registered: Monday, August 8 2005 07:00
Shake Before Using
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Maybe not with making patch fixes to it in Exodus, but he's been pretty concerned with updating the HLPM to stop things like god parties doing 0 damage.
Posts: 3234 | Registered: Thursday, October 4 2001 07:00

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