Is this Plot Overcliche?
Pages
- 1
- 2
| Author | Topic: Is this Plot Overcliche? |
|---|---|
|
Warrior
Member # 3610
|
written Sunday, April 9 2006 20:13
Profile
Okay, so I'm using demons as my major enemy. My plot is set before the founding of Avernum (possibly before the First Expedition: remember the "increadibly ancient" armor you find on the soldiers in the Spiral Crypt? I take that to mean there were people here before the First Expedition, especially since the First Expedition starts getting pretty big, at that point.) Here's the thing, the big baddie, we are repeatedly told, before Miccah, Mages, & Co. cleaned them out were demons. The way I have it set up, the Demons have a pretty political situation set up, and have found a ballance of power. Then you and assorted Bobs come down, and pull a Dorothy, and kill one of the Demon Kings unballancing the whole thing... Too cliche, or no? (And yeah, it may never be released. Let's get beyond that, please.) Posts: 129 | Registered: Tuesday, October 28 2003 08:00 |
|
Off With Their Heads
Member # 4045
|
written Sunday, April 9 2006 20:24
Profile
Homepage
Having demons as your primary villains will make some people scream in anger. I'm not one of them. I think that it's okay, as long as they have personalities and motivations like everyone else (and as long as you have mostly non-demon foes for the combat in the scenario). Be sure to keep your ambitions modest, though. It sounds as though you've bitten off a plot that is larger than you can chew in a small scenario. -------------------- Arancaytar: Every time you ask people to compare TM and Kel, you endanger the poor, fluffy kittens. Smoo: Get ready to face the walls! Ephesos: In conclusion, yarr. Kelandon's Pink and Pretty Page!!: the authorized location for all things by me The Archive of all released BoE scenarios ever Posts: 7968 | Registered: Saturday, February 28 2004 08:00 |
|
Infiltrator
Member # 3441
|
written Monday, April 10 2006 06:17
Profile
Homepage
It seems reasonably interesting. The problem wth demons is that sometimes they have no motivations, which is bad. For example, in my BoE scenario, Inferno, I was hevily criticized for the use of demons, but this was because they had no underlying reason for their actions. -------------------- "As our circle of knowledge expands, so does the circumference of darkness surrounding it." --Albert Einstein -------------------- Posts: 536 | Registered: Sunday, September 7 2003 07:00 |
|
Guardian
Member # 6670
|
written Monday, April 10 2006 08:05
Profile
Homepage
Dastal, sounds good so far (though it still needs a lot more plot work before you even think of sitting down in front of the editor). I'm a little afraid BoA is going to get swamped with demon scenarios soon (mine one of them). My advice is to treat the demons like any other baddie. Don't make them evil just because they are demons. Give them personalities. The fact that you are devoting time creating a political structure is very good. Oops. I just realized that I'm repeating everything that the people before me have said. Anyway, my two-bit is: focus on the power balance for the demons. There are some good slith and nephil scenarios, but not a definitive demon one yet. -------------------- Why don't smileys have noses? Posts: 1509 | Registered: Tuesday, January 10 2006 08:00 |
|
Councilor
Member # 6600
|
written Monday, April 10 2006 08:14
Profile
Homepage
I won't complain about having some demons if they have motivation (and it sounds like they do). However, I will grumble to myself if it features mainly demons/undead built for a middle-to-high level party. I do have four priests (well, three priests and a priestess) and they will use repel spirit mindlessly and I will be very bored. However, a good plot and non-repelable enemies should make it very interesting. Dikiyoba. Edit: Typo. [ Monday, April 10, 2006 08:15: Message edited by: Dikiyoba ] Posts: 4346 | Registered: Friday, December 23 2005 08:00 |
|
Guardian
Member # 6670
|
written Monday, April 10 2006 09:17
Profile
Homepage
By Dikiyoba: quote:Bahssikava, anyone? :) -------------------- IF I EVER BECOME AN EVIL OVERLORD: All midwives will be banned from the realm. All babies will be delivered at state-approved hospitals. Orphans will be placed in foster-homes, not abandoned in the woods to be raised by creatures of the wild. Posts: 1509 | Registered: Tuesday, January 10 2006 08:00 |
|
Councilor
Member # 6600
|
written Monday, April 10 2006 10:19
Profile
Homepage
Originally by Dintiradan: quote:Diplomacy with the Dead was far worse. Because of Bahssikava's other enemies, puzzles, and involved plot, Dikiyoba enjoyed it immensely. [ Monday, April 10, 2006 10:21: Message edited by: Dikiyoba ] Posts: 4346 | Registered: Friday, December 23 2005 08:00 |
|
Law Bringer
Member # 4153
|
written Monday, April 10 2006 10:58
Profile
Homepage
quote:DwtD was unpleasant. Bahss got my hopes up for a while, but coming out of the city to face a bunch of quickghasts before ascending Mt. Galthrax was just painful. That, and (points at sig), so the endless hordes of ghosts were a bit of a pain. -------------------- Gamble with Gaea, and she eats your dice. I hate undead. I really, really, really, really hate undead. With a passion. Posts: 4130 | Registered: Friday, March 26 2004 08:00 |
|
Off With Their Heads
Member # 4045
|
written Monday, April 10 2006 12:33
Profile
Homepage
Because Bahs exists, I advise others not to create another Bahs. I like it for what it does, but we already have a high-level scenario with combat primarily against demons and undead, and it would be annoying to have several more. Some people liked the first one, but it would get old very quickly. In any case, one can have demons villains but not demon combat opponents: a demon commands an army of nephilim or something, for example. [ Monday, April 10, 2006 12:37: Message edited by: Kelandon ] -------------------- Arancaytar: Every time you ask people to compare TM and Kel, you endanger the poor, fluffy kittens. Smoo: Get ready to face the walls! Ephesos: In conclusion, yarr. Kelandon's Pink and Pretty Page!!: the authorized location for all things by me The Archive of all released BoE scenarios ever Posts: 7968 | Registered: Saturday, February 28 2004 08:00 |
|
Law Bringer
Member # 4153
|
written Monday, April 10 2006 15:31
Profile
Homepage
I'd have to say that personally, I never want to look at another army of nephilim ever again. EVER. Add vahnatai and you've got NM. -------------------- Gamble with Gaea, and she eats your dice. I hate undead. I really, really, really, really hate undead. With a passion. Posts: 4130 | Registered: Friday, March 26 2004 08:00 |
|
Infiltrator
Member # 3441
|
written Monday, April 10 2006 18:12
Profile
Homepage
Ephesos, does your hatred of undead extend to all creatures affected by repel spirit? -------------------- "As our circle of knowledge expands, so does the circumference of darkness surrounding it." --Albert Einstein -------------------- Posts: 536 | Registered: Sunday, September 7 2003 07:00 |
|
Law Bringer
Member # 4153
|
written Monday, April 10 2006 19:17
Profile
Homepage
Demons are fine if they're justified and have proper motivation. Random demons, and hordes of demons, are frowned upon. Undead need a very good reason to exist. Otherwise, they die. -------------------- Gamble with Gaea, and she eats your dice. I hate undead. I really, really, really, really hate undead. With a passion. Posts: 4130 | Registered: Friday, March 26 2004 08:00 |
|
Warrior
Member # 3610
|
written Monday, April 10 2006 20:06
Profile
What about "good" undead? I'm having a pretty tough time creating friendly towns, so undead and demons are playing roles as NPC's. I figure I can finagle one human settlement (miners who got lost, and are making the best of it), but much more than that, other than the people you come down with, is really pushing it. That means I need to use Sliths, Demons, Nephs, Drakes, Undead, and damn near everyone I can think of as friendlies. Few of them are "absolute" friendlies. Most are only willing to let you into their town because you can help them. And yes, this scenario is way over ambititious, especially since I only have the first outdoor section finished. (It's a biggie though. It has 17 towns since most of the towns go through three or four versions throughout the game.) Posts: 129 | Registered: Tuesday, October 28 2003 08:00 |
|
Law Bringer
Member # 4153
|
written Monday, April 10 2006 20:40
Profile
Homepage
quote:Um... what on earth is the premise here? No friendly human settlements? Suggestion: go with the kind of NPC demons who are more than willing to help you, just as long as they can profit, a lot. Even better suggestion: make them neutral in the editor, so they won't help you if/when you get attacked. -------------------- Gamble with Gaea, and she eats your dice. I hate undead. I really, really, really, really hate undead. With a passion. Posts: 4130 | Registered: Friday, March 26 2004 08:00 |
|
E Equals MC What!!!!
Member # 5491
|
written Monday, April 10 2006 20:45
Profile
Homepage
quote:Demon, by Khoth. -------------------- SupaNik: Aran, you're not big enough to threaten Ash. Dammit, even JV had to think twice. Posts: 1861 | Registered: Friday, February 11 2005 08:00 |
|
Infiltrator
Member # 3441
|
written Monday, April 10 2006 20:57
Profile
Homepage
Agreed, although it is a BoE scenario, and I took the above post to mean no definitive BoA demon scenario. If you have BoE, however, Demon would be a good place to look at how to do the whole demon thing without reverting to an OMG! DEMONZ are EV1L!!! KILL tEHM! type of scenario. -------------------- "As our circle of knowledge expands, so does the circumference of darkness surrounding it." --Albert Einstein -------------------- Posts: 536 | Registered: Sunday, September 7 2003 07:00 |
|
Law Bringer
Member # 2984
|
written Tuesday, April 11 2006 00:16
Profile
Homepage
quote:Question answered. :P quote:Sort of done before. Demon, by someone I didn't remember but now see is Khoth. However, one piece of prior art doesn't make a cliché. You could yet pull it off in an original way. quote:This one's new, I think. (I'm not sure if something similar happened in Demon; the demon who greeted you was killed almost immediately, but I don't think he was a very significant character.) It sounds more original than most demon-related scenarios, all in all. Good luck! -------------------- Encyclopaedia Ermariana • Forum Archives • Forum Statistics • RSS [Topic / Forum] My Blog • Polaris • I eat novels for breakfast. Polaris is dead, long live Polaris. Look on my works, ye mighty, and despair. Posts: 8752 | Registered: Wednesday, May 14 2003 07:00 |
|
Shock Trooper
Member # 932
|
written Tuesday, April 11 2006 02:28
Profile
I'm open to scenarios made using mostly stock monsters, if they are well written, masterfully scripted, etc. I have no problems with a scenario consisting almost entirely of daemons, I could even find a scenario with a million of them enjoyable—if you can come up with an exceptionally good reason for their presence. I somehow doubt anyone could come up with any reasonable justification for that many daemons, but if they can, more power to them, I suppose. -------------------- Microsoft Patents Ones, Zeroes (March 25, 1998) "Asians are good at Starcraft because they're always squinting, thus they can see things sharply. Remember to always squint in war." ~ Sun-Tzu Posts: 215 | Registered: Sunday, April 7 2002 08:00 |
|
Master
Member # 5977
|
written Tuesday, April 11 2006 05:37
Profile
Homepage
quote:Do you mean: "Not an other scenario in which you see what is the origin and history of ancient civiliziations" (which is the current plan for my next scenario), or "Not again hords and hords of mindless undead"? -------------------- Play and rate my scenarios: Where the rivers meet View my upcoming scenario: The Nephil Search: Escape. Give us your drek! Posts: 3029 | Registered: Saturday, June 18 2005 07:00 |
|
Off With Their Heads
Member # 4045
|
written Tuesday, April 11 2006 06:42
Profile
Homepage
Thralni, read my post again and see if you can figure it out. -------------------- Arancaytar: Every time you ask people to compare TM and Kel, you endanger the poor, fluffy kittens. Smoo: Get ready to face the walls! Ephesos: In conclusion, yarr. Kelandon's Pink and Pretty Page!!: the authorized location for all things by me The Archive of all released BoE scenarios ever Posts: 7968 | Registered: Saturday, February 28 2004 08:00 |
|
Master
Member # 5977
|
written Tuesday, April 11 2006 06:45
Profile
Homepage
Well, it was the Nephilim part of the post the confused me. -------------------- Play and rate my scenarios: Where the rivers meet View my upcoming scenario: The Nephil Search: Escape. Give us your drek! Posts: 3029 | Registered: Saturday, June 18 2005 07:00 |
|
Warrior
Member # 3610
|
written Tuesday, April 11 2006 08:31
Profile
Well, cannon says that Demons where what were found in Exile/Avernum when everyone came down, so I'm accepting cannon. Posts: 129 | Registered: Tuesday, October 28 2003 08:00 |
|
Lifecrafter
Member # 6403
|
written Tuesday, April 11 2006 08:34
Profile
quote:FYT -------------------- ??? ?????? ???? ????? Posts: 883 | Registered: Wednesday, October 19 2005 07:00 |
|
Law Bringer
Member # 4153
|
written Tuesday, April 11 2006 13:20
Profile
Homepage
I actually like the idea of accepting cannons into Avernum canon. It'd make things a bit more interesting, as I expect that some of the caves would have rather lucrative saltpeter mines. -------------------- Gamble with Gaea, and she eats your dice. I hate undead. I really, really, really, really hate undead. With a passion. Posts: 4130 | Registered: Friday, March 26 2004 08:00 |
|
Councilor
Member # 6600
|
written Tuesday, April 11 2006 13:46
Profile
Homepage
It's not too large a stretch, either, since exploding saltpeter boxes were present in A Small Rebellion. Dikiyoba. Posts: 4346 | Registered: Friday, December 23 2005 08:00 |
Pages
- 1
- 2