Leaders of the Empire?
Pages
| Author | Topic: Leaders of the Empire? |
|---|---|
|
Law Bringer
Member # 2984
|
written Saturday, July 19 2003 07:51
Profile
Homepage
There is currently a short project in progress that tries to construct a detailed history of the Empire, for reference use by scenario designers. :) (See topic "Wish List for BoA") The best start is, in my opinion, to construct a structured timeline of the Empire, sectioned into the reigns of the emperors. From the info given in the thread so far, I have been able to glean the following list. This is in a new topic so more people will read it - if you find anything wrong in this list, or have additional info, please post here. :D List of Emperors: Aizo was cleansed -150 to -50 b.P. - Sol I.- Sol II.- Sol III. Sol tried to attack Pralgrad, but was beaten back. Sol III. Was assassinated and his brother Ironclad took the throne- Ironclad I.- Ironclad II.Ironclads conquered/cleansed Pralgrad, discovered Valorim- Ironclad III. Cleansed Valorim???Blackcrag fortress constructed about 650 a.P. - Hawthorne I.- Hawthorne II.- Hawthorne III.- Prazac (Empress)Tinraya/Footracer destroyed 832 by beasts Avernum 3 at 833 a.P. 2/3 rulers after that. Then: - Tahvan I.- Tahvan II.- Tahvan III.At the Gallows in 1274 during reign of Tavhnan IV.- Tahvan IV.I'm assuming that consecutively numbered emperors reigned immediately after each other, for simplicity. The next step is going to be to put exact dates to the reign of each emperor. [ Saturday, July 19, 2003 07:52: Message edited by: Arancaytar ] -------------------- Encyclopaedia • Archives • Members • RSS [Topic / Forum] • Blog • Polaris • NaNoWriMo Look on my works, ye mighty, and despair. I have a love of woodwind instruments. Posts: 8752 | Registered: Wednesday, May 14 2003 07:00 |
|
Triad Mage
Member # 7
|
written Saturday, July 19 2003 08:30
Profile
Homepage
Sol I started on Pralgrad at around 50. Ironclad I was the first to successfully begin elimination of non-humans from Pralgrad. The Ironclads went up to XIII. Also, it would be 10 rulers between Prazac and Tahvan I. I'd say Hawthorne I began ruling around 720 and discovered Exile around 740. Hawthorne II started rule around 765, and Erika et al. were sent down around 770. Hawthorne III began ruling around 790 and began to send people down en masse. There's more I have about the reign of the Ironclads, and the line of Emperors that discovered Pralgrad (the line before Sol). -------------------- "At times discretion should be thrown aside, and with the foolish we should play the fool." - Menander ==== Drakefyre's Demesne - Happy Happy Joy Joy Encyclopedia Ermariana - Trapped in the Closet ==== You can take my Mac when you pry my cold, dead fingers off the mouse! Posts: 9436 | Registered: Wednesday, September 19 2001 07:00 |
|
Law Bringer
Member # 2984
|
written Saturday, July 19 2003 12:04
Profile
Homepage
Which Hawthorne did Erika assassinate (or order the assassination of) - Hawthorne II. or III.? And would all the 10 emperors/empresses between Prazac and Tahvan I. be Prazacs, or can we squeeze another line in? ;) I'm currently working on fitting these dates into context; I'll post the result soon (tonight according to my timezone :P , about 2 PM board time) EDIT: Did so :P I chose some probable dates that the Ironclad line and others would have had, if you have more accurate info, please tell me. And it would be great to know the name of the line before Sol. That timeline looks a bit more believable (I did have my doubts about the first version when I saw that an average reign lasted 80 years, maybe longer than those guys probably lived :P ) I deliberately 'roughed up' the round dates (740, 770, etc.) you stated, Drakey, so I added one year here, and took one away there, etc. EDIT: By the way, I found that another emperor is specifically mentioned in Valley of Dying Things. It is not mentioned when he reigned, but I would put the time of the scenario after Exile III, and that would mean the emperor Stewart I. (no number is mentioned so I assume he's the first) is one of those X's above, between Prazac and Tahvan. ;) [ Saturday, July 19, 2003 16:28: Message edited by: Arancaytar ] -------------------- Encyclopaedia • Archives • Members • RSS [Topic / Forum] • Blog • Polaris • NaNoWriMo Look on my works, ye mighty, and despair. I have a love of woodwind instruments. Posts: 8752 | Registered: Wednesday, May 14 2003 07:00 |
|
The Establishment
Member # 6
|
written Saturday, July 19 2003 18:17
Profile
Sol I was the founder of the Empire on Pralgad. Logically, his reign would begin at year one. The Aizonic Empire predates the Empire at Pralgad and had begun to settle the continents of Vantanas and Pralgad. It's decline began centuries before the founding of the current Empire. It finally collapsed when rebels sacked the capital about 100 BIE. A century later, Sol I established a new Empire on Pralgad. Ironclad I lived a very long time and died without an hier, but would not be the last to carry the name. He was the one who started the purges of the other non-human races that would last for centuries. His appointed successor was Viceroy I, whose reign was spaned a mere three years when he was assassinated by an agent who had gone mad after being forced to slaughter numerous innocent Nephil and Troglo colonies. The period after is not so certain. There was long power struggle after Viceroy I was slain with no clear ruler. Eventually someone was able to seize control and reestablished stability. Emperor Stewart came sometime before the Hawthornes. Check VoDT for an approximate date. Assume about 10 years after E3 for the date of the scenario. Tigere III sits on the throne as of 1477 in Spears. Her reign probably started about 10 years prior and will last for at least another decade. Leave some of the spaces in between the times for other scenario designers to create. Before they gain community acceptance, they need to be a high-profile designer and of a high quality work. [ Saturday, July 19, 2003 18:42: Message edited by: *i ] -------------------- Your flower power is no match for my glower power! Posts: 3726 | Registered: Tuesday, September 18 2001 07:00 |
|
BANNED
Member # 4
|
written Saturday, July 19 2003 19:28
Profile
Homepage
[ Saturday, July 19, 2003 20:14: Message edited by: Doctor Wu ] -------------------- * Posts: 6936 | Registered: Tuesday, September 18 2001 07:00 |
|
Law Bringer
Member # 2984
|
written Saturday, July 19 2003 23:11
Profile
Homepage
The Empire was refounded on Pralgrad? I had thought it was just moved there... How long did the Aizonic Empire exist before the Pralgradian Empire was founded? [ Saturday, July 19, 2003 23:11: Message edited by: Arancaytar ] -------------------- Encyclopaedia • Archives • Members • RSS [Topic / Forum] • Blog • Polaris • NaNoWriMo Look on my works, ye mighty, and despair. I have a love of woodwind instruments. Posts: 8752 | Registered: Wednesday, May 14 2003 07:00 |
|
Triad Mage
Member # 7
|
written Sunday, July 20 2003 02:01
Profile
Homepage
I'd put Blackcrag's establishment at around 634 now. Tinraya at 641. Gale at 652. Lorelei at 658. Sharimik at 663. Shayder at 600. Krizsan at 700. This is how I see it: (Male descendants of Prazac are Hawthornes, females are Prazacs.) Also, I don't like tomorrow belonging to Echoes. *i, if you come back to this topic, where would you place tCa/nCA? [ Sunday, July 20, 2003 03:10: Message edited by: Drakefyre ] -------------------- "At times discretion should be thrown aside, and with the foolish we should play the fool." - Menander ==== Drakefyre's Demesne - Happy Happy Joy Joy Encyclopedia Ermariana - Trapped in the Closet ==== You can take my Mac when you pry my cold, dead fingers off the mouse! Posts: 9436 | Registered: Wednesday, September 19 2001 07:00 |
|
Law Bringer
Member # 2984
|
written Sunday, July 20 2003 03:24
Profile
Homepage
Does that mean the Collapse of the Empire is taken out of the history? :P I'd like that, because it leaves more room for scenario designers if Ermarian and the Empire is not a doomed world... ;) Oh, and I see that this list is slowly becoming more feasible, accurate and complete. We could maybe have this structure finished in a week or so. Also, where there any emperors before Zion in the Aixoan/Aizonic/Aixonian/Aizonese/Aixonish whatever empire, or where there only the two? -------------------- Encyclopaedia • Archives • Members • RSS [Topic / Forum] • Blog • Polaris • NaNoWriMo Look on my works, ye mighty, and despair. I have a love of woodwind instruments. Posts: 8752 | Registered: Wednesday, May 14 2003 07:00 |
|
Shock Trooper
Member # 3190
|
written Sunday, July 20 2003 04:35
Profile
I see your doing well with the List of Empire Rulers. My map of Ermaria is coming along nicely, I'm about to begin creating the map of Pralgad from my notes, and then combine it with Valorim. -------------------- "Omnipresent, but always late" Posts: 220 | Registered: Tuesday, July 8 2003 07:00 |
|
Law Bringer
Member # 2984
|
written Sunday, July 20 2003 04:47
Profile
Homepage
What form will that map be in? I just want to know if it shows anything other than land and water, ie. Mountains, forests etc. :) -------------------- Encyclopaedia • Archives • Members • RSS [Topic / Forum] • Blog • Polaris • NaNoWriMo Look on my works, ye mighty, and despair. I have a love of woodwind instruments. Posts: 8752 | Registered: Wednesday, May 14 2003 07:00 |
|
Shock Trooper
Member # 3190
|
written Sunday, July 20 2003 04:53
Profile
Its going to be a map showing large mountains, forests rivers etc. and also the large cities like Solaria, Vega, Lorelei, etc. and also areas of Importance such as where the Dragons where at one point, Depending on the size I do it at I might be able to fit in smaller towns. I will do it in Black and White untill I'm happy with it, then add colour to it. [ Sunday, July 20, 2003 04:55: Message edited by: Zharrad ] -------------------- "Omnipresent, but always late" Posts: 220 | Registered: Tuesday, July 8 2003 07:00 |
|
The Establishment
Member # 6
|
written Sunday, July 20 2003 07:24
Profile
IMHO, the timeline is way too clean. It is unreasonable to expect that centuries will pass with all of the world's rival factions vying for the throne, embittered groups (of which the Avernites are an example), power-hungry relatives, etc. without major disruptions in the ruling chains. Some Emperors are strong, some are weak. The weak tend to be puppets and also live short lives. I've always taken the names of the Emperors to be arbitrary and not indicating a rulership line. It is often out of pride, or arrogance, that rulers will name their hier after them, but this need not always be the case. Remember, Queen Elizabeth I was a member of the Tudor ruling family, but we do not call her Tudor V, or something like that. The Aizonic Empire is ancient and predates known history. It's control has not always been absolute, and its existance has been sometimes tenuous. It was a very unstable Empire, often rich with infighting and barbarism. The purpose of the Aizonic Empire was to unite all of humanity under one nation. The dream was very old, but by about 100 BIE, the Aizonic Empire finally collapsed under its own weight and the dream was but forgotten. Much of the history of the Aizonic Empire was lost during its reign and after its fall; historians know little about it. A century later, Sol I resurrected the dream of the Empire on Pralgad, away from all the old infighting factions, an Empire which would ultimately be more radiant and solid than the one before it. This is according to the story in At the Gallows. I would say leave much of the history writing to designers. It gives an incentive to be able to expand upon the history in places that have not been explored. So I would leave out anything that is not yet part of a scenario. Let the designers write the history, let the historians (community members) figure out how to incorporate it. What is nCa/tCa? [ Sunday, July 20, 2003 07:28: Message edited by: *i ] -------------------- Your flower power is no match for my glower power! Posts: 3726 | Registered: Tuesday, September 18 2001 07:00 |
|
Law Bringer
Member # 2984
|
written Sunday, July 20 2003 07:58
Profile
Homepage
What we are doing here is only a general timeline for reference in creating history - we are not yet describing the individual emperors. Also, I'd say that these names are all surnames: I don't think anybody would be named 'Ironclad' or 'Strongarm' by first name. Let's just assume that in Ermarian they call the emperors by their surname and not by their first name. Concerning designer freedom - I agree that not the whole world should be developed. However, there has to be a compromise between freedom and consistency: If the history we make here is too vague, then scenarios are going to contain major contradictions to each other sooner or later, likely sooner. If scenarios are set in a world where there might or might not be another continent right off the coast, it's just confusing. So there should be a general idea for the timeline. Concerning civil wars - we already have some of those, one century (that's a lot) of chaos and strife after the Aizoan (Aizonian) Empire collapsed, 25 years of struggle after the assassination of Viceroy, 4 years when a power-crazy archmage (Garzahd) controled the Empire, and so on. Empires don't need to have that many civil wars. Probably there are going to be many designers who want to set their scenario in such a time, but they've already got plenty to choose from. This timeline already offers most settings for scenarios: Tranquil peace, golden eras, civil war, mayhem, tyranny, exploration, colonization, ethnic cleansing (nephilim, Giants, etc.). It's all there. ;) -------------------- Encyclopaedia • Archives • Members • RSS [Topic / Forum] • Blog • Polaris • NaNoWriMo Look on my works, ye mighty, and despair. I have a love of woodwind instruments. Posts: 8752 | Registered: Wednesday, May 14 2003 07:00 |
|
Shake Before Using
Member # 75
|
written Sunday, July 20 2003 08:05
Profile
Hm. TM says that the Aizoan Empire and Pralgadian Empire went to war, which the Aizoans won, overtaking the Pralgadian Empire. *i says that the Aizoan Empire collapsed and Sol I started his reign on Pralgad modeled after the Aizoan Empire. Hoorah. :P Posts: 3234 | Registered: Thursday, October 4 2001 07:00 |
|
Law Bringer
Member # 2984
|
written Sunday, July 20 2003 08:42
Profile
Homepage
Where did TM say this, in a scenario or here on the board? If it's the latter, I haven't found it anywhere... Not sure; did the Aizoan and the Pralgradian Empire ever truly coexist as separate nations? -------------------- Encyclopaedia • Archives • Members • RSS [Topic / Forum] • Blog • Polaris • NaNoWriMo Look on my works, ye mighty, and despair. I have a love of woodwind instruments. Posts: 8752 | Registered: Wednesday, May 14 2003 07:00 |
|
BANNED
Member # 4
|
written Sunday, July 20 2003 10:10
Profile
Homepage
I said it in the scenario you are supposed to be testing. *sigh* Drakey- I'm giving Stareye 600 friggin' years to end his series, but the collapse of the Empire is central to Echoes, and how you can see fit to acknowledge one plotline and not another (which massively outnumbers the former anyway) is inflamatory, to say the least. I'll assume you didn't break your flaming rule and thus never said that. Thanks. EDIT: Whoa! That was weird, it attached the edit to the wrong post. See next post. [ Sunday, July 20, 2003 10:28: Message edited by: *i ] -------------------- * Posts: 6936 | Registered: Tuesday, September 18 2001 07:00 |
|
The Establishment
Member # 6
|
written Sunday, July 20 2003 10:21
Profile
Nobody has a surname in the Exile/Avernum universe, only one name. I cannot think of any exception to this. It is Prazac, not Sally Prazac or Jane Prazac, just Prazac. Why wouldn't anyone name themselves Ironclad, Sol, etc.? Remember we live in a different universe with different names than Josh or Bill. That is how just about every monarchy works in their naming. Take the Roman Empire as a model for how a real Empire will function. The periods in between many of the Emperors was not clean at all. What this government type needs to stay stable is a very strong and wise ruler capable of melding the inevitable warring factions. It is unreasonable to think that every ruler for centuries at a time will be capable of this. Prazac was a very powerful and wise ruler, being benevolent. Her policies ironically led to the later Emperors, at least up to Tahvan IV, to be mere figureheads with all the real ruling done by the bureaucrats. I say, leave the timeline as is only with things in scenarios. If you want to make an addition, write a piece of work. Serious contradictions did not arise in the how many years BoE was released. The timeline can be an issue to be revisited and reshaped as need be. If contradictions do arise, the community can work out ways to compromise things. Here is the timeline as I see it: Prehistory Aizonic Empire Sol I Sol II Sol III Ironclad I Viceroy I * Rebellion where many very short lived Emperors claim the throne; could be Ironclad II-V, etc. * Stability re-established. Many cycles of stability and instability. Genocide of non-human races accelerates. Nephilim nearly wiped out, Troglodytes and numerous other races go extinct, Dragons flee to Avernum. Stewart I (business as usual Emperor) Hawthorne I (start of line of three strong oppressive Emperors) Hawthorne II Hawthorne III (Exile/Avernum) Prazac I (Exile III/Avernum III) * The "golden age" where Emperors have been reduced to figureheads and bureaucracy rules unofficially. Society becomes very open. Tahvan IV (At the Gallows) * Events in AtG cause the Empire to enter a slow decline. Emperors begin to reassert control. Openness policies are revoked in the wake of chaos. Situation slowly worsens. Tigere III (Spears) ************************* Let specifics be decided by the designers. Put in events such as Valorim discovered or Troglodytes become extinct. However, specific details such as the Emperor name or events that are not really part of any major established BoE scenario should probably be left out. Just leave a large open space for the rulers where things are uncertain. [ Sunday, July 20, 2003 10:30: Message edited by: *i ] -------------------- Your flower power is no match for my glower power! Posts: 3726 | Registered: Tuesday, September 18 2001 07:00 |
|
Shake Before Using
Member # 75
|
written Sunday, July 20 2003 12:04
Profile
Combined from what everyone said. [ Sunday, July 20, 2003 12:18: Message edited by: Imban ] Posts: 3234 | Registered: Thursday, October 4 2001 07:00 |
|
Law Bringer
Member # 2984
|
written Sunday, July 20 2003 12:23
Profile
Homepage
What about Hawthorne IV. and V. then, and Prazac II.? Are those taken out again? ;) -------------------- Encyclopaedia • Archives • Members • RSS [Topic / Forum] • Blog • Polaris • NaNoWriMo Look on my works, ye mighty, and despair. I have a love of woodwind instruments. Posts: 8752 | Registered: Wednesday, May 14 2003 07:00 |
|
Shake Before Using
Member # 75
|
written Sunday, July 20 2003 12:35
Profile
That block of 10 emperors was left blank because, well, it's for people to design scenarios in if you want one set in the actual Empire. (If the other Hawthornes and Prazacs were actually in a scenario, um, whoops.) Posts: 3234 | Registered: Thursday, October 4 2001 07:00 |
|
Law Bringer
Member # 2984
|
written Sunday, July 20 2003 13:12
Profile
Homepage
How much land did the Aixoan/Aizoan Empire span before it collapsed? Only Aizo, or other continents as well? I'm currently trying to get some info on the founding on the first Empire, just for fun. :D EDIT: Please, someone tell me how far back knowledge of the Aixoan Empire reaches! I'm trying to make up a Founder that would have ruled about 650-590 b.P. (before Pralgrad). Is that approximately possible, or does such a founder already exist? [ Sunday, July 20, 2003 13:42: Message edited by: Arancaytar ] -------------------- Encyclopaedia • Archives • Members • RSS [Topic / Forum] • Blog • Polaris • NaNoWriMo Look on my works, ye mighty, and despair. I have a love of woodwind instruments. Posts: 8752 | Registered: Wednesday, May 14 2003 07:00 |
|
Shock Trooper
Member # 2300
|
written Sunday, July 20 2003 13:45
Profile
I don't have a lot of, erm, expertise to offer at this point in the project (it's interesting though :D ), so just let me know when the writing bit starts. ;) -------------------- Beware of pretty girls in dance halls and parks who may be spies, as well as bicycles, revolvers, uniforms, arms, dead horses, and men lying on roads -- they are not there accidentally." - Soviet infantry manual, 1930's Posts: 267 | Registered: Wednesday, November 27 2002 08:00 |
|
BANNED
Member # 4
|
written Sunday, July 20 2003 15:34
Profile
Homepage
God! It's spelled "Aizo"! ...eh. The Aizoan Empire controlled all of Aizo, and maybe a few oceanic islands, but nothing more. -------------------- * Posts: 6936 | Registered: Tuesday, September 18 2001 07:00 |
|
Guardian
Member # 2238
|
written Sunday, July 20 2003 17:04
Profile
Homepage
Seeing as how I pretty much (someone else helped inspire...) this whole deal about Exile/Avernum history, you guys should let me handle the First Visitation. :D Yea well, I just got home from Atlanta, GA, USA. The Lutheran National Youth Gathering was there, big event, and I of course, attended. But yea lets not talk about that. I've missed LOTS of posts of important information, so I've been reading up for the past half hour. And from the looks of it, I'd really like to be a part of this undertaking. Like I said, I would really like to handle the First Visitation, seeing as that's what my scenarios are based on. Consider this a formal request for the involved's permission. -------------------- DEMON PLAY, DEMON OUT! Posts: 1582 | Registered: Wednesday, November 13 2002 08:00 |
|
BANNED
Member # 4
|
written Sunday, July 20 2003 19:40
Profile
Homepage
Knock yourself out. I don't particularilly care about the first visitation. -------------------- * Posts: 6936 | Registered: Tuesday, September 18 2001 07:00 |