Mages in BoA - How do I make them work?!

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AuthorTopic: Mages in BoA - How do I make them work?!
Warrior
Member # 3978
Profile #0
ARGH!

I posted this on the Lyceum, I'm echoing it here.

How the hell do you make mages in BoA efficient?! Thier MP costs are huge all of a sudden (25 for Arcane blow instead of 15, as an example) and even 30 levels of Mag Efficiency doesn't seem to lower the costs all that much.

Not to mention, even my Nephil who'd never trained in Melee Weapons seemed to do 60-100 melee damage compared to my 150-200 Arcane blow damage, and Arcane Blow takes up all my mana. AND it doesn't work on spellcasting enemies: They all have magic resistance. Can someone please help me, this is driving me nuts. Is Natural Mage really that important for magical damage? (I didnt have it, but I had Arcane Blow at level 10 and tons of magery/mage spells/intelligence)

Oh, and could someone explain the exact game-mechanic effect of Magery to me? I'm dying to know, since it doesn't raise my MP at all *grumble*
Posts: 125 | Registered: Friday, February 13 2004 08:00
Agent
Member # 2210
Profile #1
Here is how I make a mage that is pretty effective. I start out with the Hedge Wizard build, which is evenly divided between mage and priest spells. Then I take the advantages fast on feet and natural mage. This can be augmented with the nephil build. Thus you get a very fast, dextrous mage who can be armored.

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Wasting your time and mine looking for a good laugh.

Star Bright, Star Light, Oh I Wish I May, I Wish Might, Wish For One Star Tonight.
Posts: 1084 | Registered: Thursday, November 7 2002 08:00
BANNED
Member # 4
Profile Homepage #2
Natural Mage, since it not only lets you armor yourself, but also gives you the recharge energy ability. (Okay, so +20 SP per day ain't THAT great, but...) Also, energy potions and elixirs. If a shop sells them, clear its stock of 'em. (This is less required in low-level scenarios, but...) Usually, your odds of fighting the enemy at an advantage are directly related to the SP of your magi. Also, getting Priest Spells is eventually a good idea, even if you don't plan on using them much- they become cheaper than extra mage spells levels eventually.

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Posts: 6936 | Registered: Tuesday, September 18 2001 07:00
Off With Their Heads
Member # 4045
Profile Homepage #3
Magery apparently does exactly the same thing as Intelligence (the details are in the manual pdf) without increasing your available spell points. It gives you some bonus to your resistances, too.

The skill seems far less useful than it was in the Trilogy.

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Posts: 7968 | Registered: Saturday, February 28 2004 08:00
Warrior
Member # 3978
Profile #4
Details are in the manual? Not on special skills...? Oh, you mean on intelligence.

Btw, I'm asking how to make spells DAMAGING and more SP Efficient, OTHER THAN energy potions ;)

Btw what bonuses does Magery give to your actual spells?
Posts: 125 | Registered: Friday, February 13 2004 08:00
BANNED
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SP efficiency can only be gained by the skill of the same name. Intelligence and Magery both add 1 to damage of spells done, but that's a pittance. The best way to put more kick in your spells is to buy (or find) higher levels.

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Posts: 6936 | Registered: Tuesday, September 18 2001 07:00
Agent
Member # 2210
Profile #6
A few more hints.
1) Try to get Morog's Scepter for your mage. It takes care of magic resistant creatures if you have a high magery skill. There are several magery increasing items throughout the scenarios which can boost the scepter to do a lot of damage-- Wizard's Hat in DWTD, and Robes of the Magi.

2) Your mage should try to get Arcane Summon up to level 4 or as quickly as possible.

3) Try to build at least one member of your party with strong alchemy skills-- buy energy potion, and energy elixir recipe as quick as you can.

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Wasting your time and mine looking for a good laugh.

Star Bright, Star Light, Oh I Wish I May, I Wish Might, Wish For One Star Tonight.
Posts: 1084 | Registered: Thursday, November 7 2002 08:00
Warrior
Member # 3978
Profile #7
Arcane Blow does 2.5 extra damage per level of bonus, which is INT+MAG+MGR, Which in my case meant quite a bit: Roughly 25 INT + 20 Mage spells and maybe 10 Magery? 55*2.5 = 130, thats no pittance ;)

My real problem is the SP costs! They're nutty! I want a way to make my mage BETTER than a warrior, but without using potions. The way things stand with these ridiculous costs, though, it seems warrior is the way to go, since the spells cost to damned much, and barely do more damage.
Posts: 125 | Registered: Friday, February 13 2004 08:00
Warrior
Member # 4484
Profile #8
Kitchen Toaster is right (what I am saying ?), you need specific items for your mage. Like a staff who gives a Magery/Magery Efficiency, more Int...

But I don't understand why you give your Mage Fast on Feet: it doesn't add too much strengh to a mage. He can't cast two times a round, so it's just cause you want him to be the first to act ?

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"Il est interdit de se battre sur le Champ du Massacre; dit-il avant de marquer une pause, le temps de reflechir a la logique de ses propos."

Discworld, The Colour of Magic
Posts: 178 | Registered: Monday, June 7 2004 07:00
Agent
Member # 2210
Profile #9
Actually, at higher levels he can cast two times per round unhasted which is a big advantage and go first.

I think Nephils get dex bonuses as they go up in level so with this setup your character is very fast.

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Wasting your time and mine looking for a good laugh.

Star Bright, Star Light, Oh I Wish I May, I Wish Might, Wish For One Star Tonight.
Posts: 1084 | Registered: Thursday, November 7 2002 08:00
...b10010b...
Member # 869
Profile Homepage #10
quote:
Originally written by Kitchen Toaster:

Actually, at higher levels he can cast two times per round unhasted which is a big advantage and go first.
Really? At what level does Fast on Feet give more than +1 AP? Are you sure you're not confusing it with Quick Strike, or that the character you were using didn't have another AP-boosting item equipped? I honestly had no idea FoF improved with your level.

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The Empire Always Loses: This Time For Sure!
Posts: 9973 | Registered: Saturday, March 30 2002 08:00
Agent
Member # 2210
Profile #11
You get +1 AP for fast on feet.
You get +1 AP for being Nephil and +1 dex. I think this may go up with level.

Thus you start out with 6 AP.

With speed bonus items it gets faster from there. Thus two spells and go first.

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Wasting your time and mine looking for a good laugh.

Star Bright, Star Light, Oh I Wish I May, I Wish Might, Wish For One Star Tonight.
Posts: 1084 | Registered: Thursday, November 7 2002 08:00
Warrior
Member # 3978
Profile #12
Being Nephil gets you:

+2 DEX, +1 more every 7 levels starting at level 7 (7, 14, 21, etc.,)

+1 Level of Missile Damage, same levels (1, 7, 14, 21, etc.,)

Thats all. No bonus AP. At all. When combined with Divinely Touched you get another + to dex which is nice if you want a superfast char, but no bonus AP.

Sorry, but thats the way it is, I have a level 80 Nephil with no FoF and he still has 4 AP base.
Posts: 125 | Registered: Friday, February 13 2004 08:00
Agent
Member # 2210
Profile #13
Oops-- Must be a few other things then.

Character--
4 points bought of Quickstrike from DWTD
+1 AP from Boston Imperial in Emerald Mountain.
Hidden Vally Sandals +5 AP. (ridiculous bonus)
Pants of Swiftness (Backwater Calls) +2 AP +1 Dex

It is fairly easy to get:
Ring of speed +1 AP
Sandals of Speed +1 AP

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Wasting your time and mine looking for a good laugh.

Star Bright, Star Light, Oh I Wish I May, I Wish Might, Wish For One Star Tonight.
Posts: 1084 | Registered: Thursday, November 7 2002 08:00
Shock Trooper
Member # 2775
Profile Homepage #14
In Avernum 3 lightning spray was more cost-effective than arcane blow. That is, in Avernum 3 you got a pretty effective shotgun attack with lightning spray for a modest outlay of spell points, but with arcane blow you got a more costly and limited attack. From the few BoA scenarios I've played, I think it's the same story. For the spell points used, you put more hits on more enemies with lightning spray.

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"I can't give you brains," said the Wizard of Oz to the Scarecrow, "but I can give you a diploma." - L. Frank Baum
Posts: 381 | Registered: Sunday, March 16 2003 08:00
...b10010b...
Member # 869
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Lightning Spray may be more efficient than Arcane Blow, but by the levels you get AB at, LS doesn't really do enough damage to be worth much. On the other hand, AB isn't worth much either; I've rarely been in a situation where Arcane Blow did significantly more damage than Fireblast. If I can afford to burn enough SP to cast damaging spells, I'd generally rather use a summoning spell to take the pressure off my fighters instead.

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The Empire Always Loses: This Time For Sure!
Posts: 9973 | Registered: Saturday, March 30 2002 08:00
E Equals MC What!!!!
Member # 5491
Profile Homepage #16
When I went into DwtD with 4 level 1 priests (yes, I know you're talking about mages) I made them all Nephilim with Fast on Feet. I also made sure they had enough dexterity to act first. This has a double benefit - I armed them with missile weapons, so on the occasion that I get a 5 AP round, I can shoot/cast. With four spells and a few missiles, I could take a fair bit out of most enemies. Intelligence is nearly worthless. Don't touch it until you're maxed out in spell levels (both priest and mage, I recommend). Lots of levels means more spell points (very handy) and really the only effective way to boost spell power is to buy/find extra levels.

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SupaNik: Aran, you're not big enough to threaten Ash. Dammit, even JV had to think twice.
Posts: 1861 | Registered: Friday, February 11 2005 08:00
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Member # 869
Profile Homepage #17
Archer-priests are definitely a great paradigm and I can see why you might want FoF for them, although usually I take Sickness Prone and Brittle Bones for the XP bonus. For serious battles I'm always going to be hasted anyway, and 7 AP isn't really much different from 6.

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The Empire Always Loses: This Time For Sure!
Posts: 9973 | Registered: Saturday, March 30 2002 08:00
Shaper
Member # 247
Profile Homepage #18
Nephilim Archer slash Shaman with Fast on Feet is a power to reckoned with. As for Mages always use Natural Mage the advantage of SPs regen and Armour usability are a must aii. :D

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The Knight Between Posts.
Posts: 2395 | Registered: Friday, November 2 2001 08:00
Warrior
Member # 3978
Profile #19
Are you guys telling me that you cant really come up with a solution either?

My spell I used to be able to cast 10 times is now a 6-caster that isn't worth the skillevel to get it?

Why the hell would anyone want to be a mage if thier spells are so costly and ****ty?! ARGH!

Cant someone come up for a reason to be a mage over a priest/fighter...? Some way to conserve MP and do good damage?
Posts: 125 | Registered: Friday, February 13 2004 08:00
Agent
Member # 2210
Profile #20
An archer/mage nephil is just as effective as archer priest. It has worked very well for my party.

Composed
1) Slith spearman/high tool use-- Divinely touched- Strong Back. Focus on anatomy, blademaster, lethal blow.
2) Human swordsman/bow. Focus on parry, riposte, quickstrike, sharpshooter.
3) Human priest/alchemist-- potions-- protection brew, curing potion, greymold salve (finishes quests in many dungeons), energy potion, energy elixir
4) Nephil archer/mage -- fast on feet, natural mage.

The key to this is to have a character that can easily make energy potions and energy elixirs. Stack them up and you should not have to worry about spell points. I do not understand the aversion to energy elixirs...

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Wasting your time and mine looking for a good laugh.

Star Bright, Star Light, Oh I Wish I May, I Wish Might, Wish For One Star Tonight.
Posts: 1084 | Registered: Thursday, November 7 2002 08:00
Warrior
Member # 4484
Profile #21
Sounds nice, but I don't understand why you give Strong Back to your Slith. He's gonna have a lot of strengh, and with Divinely Touch, it gives him a 70 % Xp penalty... It's a lot ! And he doesn't need strong back: he's a fighter, so you gonna buy him at least 10 in strengh, no ?

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"Il est interdit de se battre sur le Champ du Massacre; dit-il avant de marquer une pause, le temps de reflechir a la logique de ses propos."

Discworld, The Colour of Magic
Posts: 178 | Registered: Monday, June 7 2004 07:00
Shaper
Member # 247
Profile Homepage #22
I find the defensive spells of both Priest and Mage more useful any way. There are several skills that will increase SPs but if You haven't been increasing them through the whole game its pretty much too late. Divine Shield is a really powerful spell that only mages have so that's one reason to have mage in Yo party.

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The Knight Between Posts.
Posts: 2395 | Registered: Friday, November 2 2001 08:00
Cartographer
Member # 995
Profile #23
haste.
and haste.
and haste.

'nuff said.
Posts: 206 | Registered: Thursday, April 18 2002 07:00
Warrior
Member # 3978
Profile #24
I think your referring to Arcane Shield, and unfortunatly it ISN'T very usefull to my experience.

It reflects damage back at your enemy, which is semi-decent but it doesnt do you any good if they're chopping you to bits and have more HP than you do.

It gives you resistance, which lowers thier damage but not by anywhere near enough to justify 25 MP.

The only decent thing about it is the VERY short period of time it grants invulnerability. I also find it extremely annoying that apparently the only way a mage can do anything in a fight is to use Energy Elixers. Fighters dont need elixers - they can do more damage than mages without any elixer of any type, and they can keep going longer.

So I'm back to my original question. IS THERE A WAY, to make a MAGE, more effective or at least AS effective at high levels, as a fighter or priest?

And note that haste only takes 3 MS skill to learn. I'd expect your fighters to have at least 4 by high levels, so they can cast slow (Which they can do in armor)
Posts: 125 | Registered: Friday, February 13 2004 08:00

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