Hire a NPC on a scenario!?

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AuthorTopic: Hire a NPC on a scenario!?
Darkmoor
Apprentice
Member # 5202
 written Friday, December 10 2004 09:40 Profile #0
Wouldn't it be possible to create a scenario where you could hire help? og: We play singleton and then there would be a scenario, like a guild, where we could hire a pre-made warrior level 10 per 10000 gold and 20 emeralds to take the place of the second character and make it effective on the party! It would be really neat
Posts: 30 | Registered: Tuesday, November 16 2004 08:00
The Almighty Doer of Stuff
Shaper
Member # 73
 written Friday, December 10 2004 11:11 Profile #1
No. NPCs do not transfer between scenarios, and they do not actually join your party like they did in the Avernum trilogy.

[ Friday, December 10, 2004 11:12: Message edited by: The Almighty Doer of Stuff ]

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Posts: 2957 | Registered: Thursday, October 4 2001 07:00
Thuryl
...b10010b...
Member # 869
 written Friday, December 10 2004 11:48 Profile Homepage #2
You can hire an NPC for use within a scenario, though.

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The Empire Always Loses: This Time For Sure!
Posts: 9973 | Registered: Saturday, March 30 2002 08:00
The Immortal
BANNED
Member # 4
 written Friday, December 10 2004 13:55 Profile Homepage #3
But then you'd have to be careful to make sure that you check both slots 4 and 5 to see if any plot-necessary NPCs are still with you.
Eh. It'd be worth it, I'm sure.

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Posts: 6936 | Registered: Tuesday, September 18 2001 07:00
Garrison
Agent
Member # 2820
 written Saturday, December 11 2004 14:03 Profile #4
So you want a scenario in which the player can, by spending gold and such, change all the stats of one of his controllable characters to fit what you, the designer, have in mind? From what I understand, you are not talking about NPCs following you.

It is impossible for you to be able to check whether the "same" character is in your party if you do not use NPCs because the player can do what he wants with his PCs, and the game does not keep track of that. For example, if you wanted Johnny the Pirate to be able to take the place of one of the player's characters, but the player would still be able to control him, there is no way to prevent the player from training him any way that he wants, or even moving him around the party slots.

But things like this have been done before, though not necessarily in BoA community scenarios. Some people like these characters that can join you.

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Posts: 1415 | Registered: Thursday, March 27 2003 08:00
Darkmoor
Apprentice
Member # 5202
 written Sunday, December 12 2004 11:32 Profile #5
i meant like in the avernum trilogy like someone already said... there must be a way to do it... and if you had the 2nd, 3rd or 4th slot oppened he would become a permanent character
Posts: 30 | Registered: Tuesday, November 16 2004 08:00
The Immortal
BANNED
Member # 4
 written Sunday, December 12 2004 12:26 Profile Homepage #6
Darkmoor- There is no way to do this. Period.

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Posts: 6936 | Registered: Tuesday, September 18 2001 07:00
Kelandon
Off With Their Heads
Member # 4045
 written Sunday, December 12 2004 12:37 Profile Homepage #7
Joining NPCs in BoA work like Nethergate NPCs, not Avernum ones, so there is no way to do this directly.

I suppose one could, however, enable the character to "buy an NPC" by changing a current party member's stats to some pre-set numbers. That is, if you wanted to buy an NPC and put him in slot 3, the state would run a whole bunch of alter_stat calls until the character in slot 3 was completely redone. One could even suggest in a message_dialog changing the graphic to some specific image.

[ Sunday, December 12, 2004 12:38: Message edited by: Kelandon ]

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Posts: 7968 | Registered: Saturday, February 28 2004 08:00
Arenax
Shock Trooper
Member # 5181
 written Sunday, December 12 2004 15:28 Profile Homepage #8
These are the reasons we need a Lua-based script engine--so we can write our own functions.

Anyone else doubt that JV would ever even entertain this idea?
Posts: 262 | Registered: Thursday, November 11 2004 08:00
Garrison
Agent
Member # 2820
 written Sunday, December 12 2004 16:49 Profile #9
Sticking preset stats into characters that are already there has been faked in BoE, so it cannot be that difficult in BoA.

The only real problem, besides clunky implementation, is that there must be a pre-existing PC for use.

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Thuryl: I mean, most of us don't go around consuming our own bodily fluids, no matter how delicious they are.
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Alorael: War and violence would end if we all had each other's babies!
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Drakefyre: Those are hideous mangos.
Posts: 1415 | Registered: Thursday, March 27 2003 08:00
Nasarius
Warrior
Member # 4238
 written Sunday, December 12 2004 17:36 Profile #10
quote:
Originally written by ARRR-enax:

These are the reasons we need a Lua-based script engine--so we can write our own functions.

Anyone else doubt that JV would ever even entertain this idea?
Hm. I'd never heard of Lua before. It sounds a lot like Tcl. Any reason that Lua would be better than, say, Tcl or Python?
Posts: 70 | Registered: Monday, April 12 2004 07:00
Thuryl
...b10010b...
Member # 869
 written Sunday, December 12 2004 17:53 Profile Homepage #11
quote:
Originally written by Kelandon:

Joining NPCs in BoA work like Nethergate NPCs, not Avernum ones, so there is no way to do this directly.
Correction: they work like Nethergate NPCs, only AI-controlled, so less useful.

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The Empire Always Loses: This Time For Sure!
Posts: 9973 | Registered: Saturday, March 30 2002 08:00
Kelandon
Off With Their Heads
Member # 4045
 written Sunday, December 12 2004 18:20 Profile Homepage #12
True. Yes. And from what I hear, their scripts don't actually work properly, too, so we can't give them any sort of decent AI.

It would be lovely if we could actually select a target for our joined NPCs, which would be possible if we got all the bug fixes and new calls that we really wanted. Er, that reminds me, we should check up on those new calls and see what Jeff intends to do. Perhaps I shall start a new thread.

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Arancaytar: Every time you ask people to compare TM and Kel, you endanger the poor, fluffy kittens.
Smoo: Get ready to face the walls!
Ephesos: In conclusion, yarr.

Kelandon's Pink and Pretty Page!!: the authorized location for all things by me
The Archive of all released BoE scenarios ever
Posts: 7968 | Registered: Saturday, February 28 2004 08:00
Garrison
Agent
Member # 2820
 written Sunday, December 12 2004 20:34 Profile #13
I would say it is a pretty big bug, since Jeff insists that the custom NPCs need custom scripts. But custom NPCs will use default scripts for everything except DEAD_STATE! Pointless.

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Thuryl: I mean, most of us don't go around consuming our own bodily fluids, no matter how delicious they are.
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Alorael: War and violence would end if we all had each other's babies!
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Drakefyre: Those are hideous mangos.
Posts: 1415 | Registered: Thursday, March 27 2003 08:00
Darkmoor
Apprentice
Member # 5202
 written Monday, December 13 2004 01:44 Profile #14
There would be no need for a pc to exist but a very complex script would probably have to be written. One that removes de character in case it existed, then to create a new one as if you were on the start town and add the characteristics! Though i can't do it but i am sure someone can! Wonder if someone will ever try. As for someone who said it can't be done:Everything can be done, if there is someone able to... that's another story.
Posts: 30 | Registered: Tuesday, November 16 2004 08:00
Thuryl
...b10010b...
Member # 869
 written Monday, December 13 2004 02:24 Profile Homepage #15
The problem is there's no scripting call to create a character.

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The Empire Always Loses: This Time For Sure!
Posts: 9973 | Registered: Saturday, March 30 2002 08:00
Arenax
Shock Trooper
Member # 5181
 written Monday, December 13 2004 12:17 Profile Homepage #16
quote:
Originally written by Nasarius:

quote:
Originally written by ARRR-enax:

These are the reasons we need a Lua-based script engine--so we can write our own functions.

Anyone else doubt that JV would ever even entertain this idea?
Hm. I'd never heard of Lua before. It sounds a lot like Tcl. Any reason that Lua would be better than, say, Tcl or Python?
Not really. Lua is just C, and Avernumscript is already based on C, so I think it'd make more sense.

I like Python, but have never used Tcl.
Posts: 262 | Registered: Thursday, November 11 2004 08:00
Nasarius
Warrior
Member # 4238
 written Monday, December 13 2004 15:49 Profile #17
quote:
Originally written by ARRR-enax:

Not really. Lua is just C, and Avernumscript is already based on C, so I think it'd make more sense.
Compare:

Lua (http://www.lua.org/about.html)
quote:
Lua is a language engine that you can embed into your application. This means that, besides syntax and semantics, Lua has an API that allows the application to exchange data with Lua programs and also to extend Lua with C functions. In this sense, Lua can be regarded as a language framework for building domain-specific languages.

Lua is implemented as a small library of C functions, written in ANSI C, and compiles unmodified in all known platforms. The implementation goals are simplicity, efficiency, portability, and low embedding cost. The result is a fast language engine with small footprint, making it ideal in embedded systems too.
Tcl (http://www.tcl.tk/advocacy/whytcl.html)
quote:
It is the ability to easily add a Tcl interpreter to your application that sets it apart from other shells. Tcl fills the role of an extension language that is used to configure and customize applications. There is no need to invent a command language for your new application, or struggle to provide some sort of user-programmability for your tool. Instead, by adding a Tcl interpreter, you structure your application as a set of primitive operations that can be composed by a script to best suit the needs of your users. It also allows other programs to have programmatic control over your application, leading to suites of applications that work well together.

The Tcl C library has clean interfaces and is simple to use. The library implements the basic interpreter and a set of core scripting commands that implement variables, flow control, and procedures.
Tcl is also written entirely in C and designed to be portable.

The funny thing is that Lua seems to be targeted at nearly the exact same niche as Tcl. I'm biased towards Tcl just because it's been around longer (and is more or less a standard: try searching for books on Lua vs. books on Tcl), and I've had to do some GUI coding with Tcl/Tk.
OTOH, Lua has apparently been adopted by some big-name games, so maybe there is some benefit. Very interesting.
Posts: 70 | Registered: Monday, April 12 2004 07:00
Arenax
Shock Trooper
Member # 5181
 written Saturday, December 18 2004 06:59 Profile Homepage #18
Never tried Tcl. I'll check it out.
Posts: 262 | Registered: Thursday, November 11 2004 08:00