Left or Right?

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AuthorTopic: Left or Right?
By Committee
Member # 4233
Profile #25
I can see it both ways, though counter-clockwise initially. I'm left-handed, though right eye dominant, mainly because vision in my right eye is a bit better.

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In today’s America, there are more World of Warcraft players than farmers.
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Infiltrator
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Profile Homepage #26
She turned clockwise when I was looking at her torso, and then she switched directions when I looked at her legs. I guess that makes me right-brained, although I don't fit either stereotype that well (think methodical and calculating yet powerfully emotional all at once).

Edit: Can now change direction at will. However, it always works the way it originally happened (arms clockwise, legs counter-clockwise). Hm.

[ Thursday, November 01, 2007 12:12: Message edited by: Taliesin ]

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"We were meant to live for so much more. Have we lost ourselves?" - Switchfoot
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Guardian
Member # 5360
Profile #27
Nalyd sees it going counter-clockwise, but neither of those descriptions fit.

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May the fires of Undeath burn in your soul, and consume it.
Posts: 1636 | Registered: Wednesday, January 5 2005 08:00
Law Bringer
Member # 335
Profile Homepage #28
I saw clockwise at first, which is moderately at odds with my right/left brain usage, I think, and then with concentration I realized the image doesn't animate smoothly at all and it lost meaning.

Closing one eye or the other doesn't help, so I don't think it's a dominant eye property.

—Alorael, who has now managed to reverse the dancer with squinting. And now she's stuck that way. This is an interesting illusion, but left/right brain? Unlikely.
Posts: 14579 | Registered: Saturday, December 1 2001 08:00
Shaper
Member # 6292
Profile #29
Whatever it's actually gauging, it's a fascinating experiment.

-S-

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Posts: 2009 | Registered: Monday, September 12 2005 07:00
Agent
Member # 27
Profile #30
Counter-clockwise then clockwise. No trick, I just looked away and then back and it changed...

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Posts: 1233 | Registered: Wednesday, October 3 2001 07:00
...b10010b...
Member # 869
Profile Homepage #31
quote:
Originally written by Dintiradan:

How did they determine the right/left brain distinction? Hook people up to a fMRI or something (hopefully I remember correctly and fMRI is the relevant technique)?
They didn't. The whole right/left brain thing is mostly a load of pop-psych hooey.

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The Empire Always Loses: This Time For Sure!
Posts: 9973 | Registered: Saturday, March 30 2002 08:00
Guardian
Member # 2476
Profile #32
Someone wrote a small article commenting this test:
comment

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Polaris
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Posts: 1828 | Registered: Saturday, January 11 2003 08:00
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Profile Homepage #33
I did say "mostly". It's fairly uncontroversial that the left and right hemispheres tend to perform different functions, but the idea that there are "left-brained" and "right-brained" people is a huge generalisation based on fairly thin evidence.

From your link:

quote:
An immediate critique is that there seems to be little evidence for differences in the left and right hand limbic systems. However, Herrmann's system does not try to be an accurate model of the way the brain functions. Instead it should really be thought of as a model of different styles, partially inspired by the brain, but also the result of extensive questionnaires.
In other words, the whole "left-brained" and "right-brained" business is based on a personality typing system that doesn't really have anything much to do with the left and right brain at all.

[ Friday, November 02, 2007 03:50: Message edited by: Thuryl ]

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The Empire Always Loses: This Time For Sure!
Posts: 9973 | Registered: Saturday, March 30 2002 08:00
Guardian
Member # 2476
Profile #34
Agreed.

There is this truly fascinating book: "Half a brain is enough" by Antonio Battro, a spanish psychologist, telling the story of Nico, whose right brain hemisphere was almost completely removed at a very young age because of severe epilepsy.

What would drastically damage an adult with a more or less set pattern of neuronal interaction between hemispheres is experienced very differently by a then 4-year-old, whose patterns are still in development. Nico's left brain neurons have reoriented and reconnected themselves to take over a lot of the functions of the missing half of the brain. There is some impairment, but sofar it seems to be minor.

I've been wondering all my life how the brain recognizes what's amiss and reorganizes. My own sister's brain has been severely damaged at birth, mechanically damaged, both sides of skull. Watching her cope with this, watching her come up with abilities all of a sudden that she hasn't had before is an ongoing experience. And she's 50 by now. So this process of adaptation does not seem to stop with her getting older. Is this because her neurons can never 'comfortably settle themselves' within a functioning network of communication and just repeat it, but 'have to be creative' and 'look for workarounds' all the time? I would really like to know.

[ Friday, November 02, 2007 23:28: Message edited by: ef ]

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Polaris
Rache's A3 Site reformatted 2/3 done
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Posts: 1828 | Registered: Saturday, January 11 2003 08:00
Shaper
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Profile #35
I like that the more we discover, we realize how versatile, flexible, and adaptible the brain seems to be, even in the face of damage or loss. Recent evidence indicates that neural regrowth/reconnection after damage can occur to a greater degree than we previously believed. It is also demonstrable that, like other aspects of our capacities, "use it or lose it" applies to our brains. Your brain benefits from your use of it/pushing it/challenging it/stimulating it throughout your entire life. One of the best things we can do for our brains is continue to give them something new to learn and wrestle with. Read a book. Learn a new sport. Take a class. Think new thoughts. Your brain will reward you.

-S-

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Having ef and Synergy agree with me is something of a new experience. Is April Fools' Day being celebrated in November now?

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The Empire Always Loses: This Time For Sure!
Posts: 9973 | Registered: Saturday, March 30 2002 08:00
Shaper
Member # 6292
Profile #37
People are full of surprises. That is one of my top five sayings at this point in my life.

-S-

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Posts: 2009 | Registered: Monday, September 12 2005 07:00
? Man, ? Amazing
Member # 5755
Profile #38
quote:
Originally written by Synergy:

People are full of surprises. That is one of my top five sayings at this point in my life.

-S-

This could explain the obesity epidemic.

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Synergy, et al - "I don't get it."

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Posts: 4114 | Registered: Monday, April 25 2005 07:00
Apprentice
Member # 6763
Profile #39
I sat there originally for almost 10 minutes, and was so incapable of seeing anything other than the clockwise rotation that I was beginning to suspect hoax or conspiracy. Returning a day later, and significantly sleep-deprived due to crunching numbers for an upcoming presentation at a major medical conference, I can flip my perceived direction at whim. I wonder how fatigue figures into this (nonsense of) left-brain / right-brain thing?

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Triad Mage
Member # 7
Profile Homepage #40
I can't for the life of me get it to go counter-clockwise. Only clockwise for me.

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Posts: 9436 | Registered: Wednesday, September 19 2001 07:00
Shaper
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Profile #41
By covering up the body of the dancer, and watching the shadow, as some suggested, and intending to see her going counterclockwise, I have finally been able to see her in reverse. Initially, she would readily flip back to going clockwise again, as if my brain really wanted to see her going that way. With a few more efforts, I had a hard time seeing her clockwise. But if I start it up fresh, I always see clockwise first. A very odd experiment. I'm guessing that the state of the mind, fatigue, what kind of state of mind you are in at the time, may all factor in to how likely or able we are to see one direction or the other.

While reductionist and simplistic models of left/right brain differentiation or whatever are typically grossly underrepresentative of the reality of something as versatile and complex as our brains, there is still something very curious being indicated by this illusion test. I do match the qualities of the so-called "right brain" model as far as my dominant/prefered mode of mental activity goes overall. And I see the woman going clockwise every time I first look (so far.) This may have no direct correlation at all. But it is still somewhere between intriguing and mesmeric.

I also will agree with Thuryl and others that to split people into two such simplified categories is unjustified (and insulting, really), yet examining personality typing is of much fascination to me. I don't think we have good models of explanation for mental functioning/personality typings. I do think we have some fairly good descriptors and categories for what we observe.

-S-

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Posts: 2009 | Registered: Monday, September 12 2005 07:00
By Committee
Member # 4233
Profile #42
You know, if you used about half as many words, your posts would be infinitely more readable. Alternately, you could become a lawyer. :)

[ Sunday, November 04, 2007 11:50: Message edited by: Drew ]

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In today’s America, there are more World of Warcraft players than farmers.
Posts: 2242 | Registered: Saturday, April 10 2004 07:00
Law Bringer
Member # 2984
Profile Homepage #43
I have a suspicion that the direction you see her in first is entirely random (or at best depending on your state of mind), but that it is hard to convince your mind to change this preconceived notion once it has taken hold.

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Posts: 8752 | Registered: Wednesday, May 14 2003 07:00
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Member # 5755
Profile #44
quote:
Originally written by Xian:

I have a suspicion that the direction you see her in first is entirely random (or at best depending on your state of mind), but that it is hard to convince your mind to change this preconceived notion once it has taken hold.
That doesn't seem very provable.

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Synergy, et al - "I don't get it."

Thralni - "a lot of people are ... too weird to be trusted"
Posts: 4114 | Registered: Monday, April 25 2005 07:00
Shock Trooper
Member # 2123
Profile #45
Clockwise is all I can see and it is chopy, like I am seeing some of the frames in the animation. I am left eye dominate and use my left hand for things such as shooting. I write and throw with my right hand, and can use both for eating.

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Rahhar...
Posts: 228 | Registered: Monday, October 21 2002 07:00
Infiltrator
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Profile #46
One thing I noticed. She was turning clockwise, then I moved my mouse down towards the bottom of my screen and the picture twitched. I looked at her and she was moving counter-clockwise. I think since it is a moving image they may make it switch. Both right and left brained functions have good attributes according to the list, so it wouldn't matter if they made it switch.

Edit: That same thing happened the second time I went to the page.

[ Sunday, November 04, 2007 14:18: Message edited by: The Ratt ]

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Posts: 454 | Registered: Monday, August 20 2007 07:00
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Profile Homepage #47
They're not making it switch. It's a 2D image, and thus does not have a "direction," furthermore I can change the apparent direction at will. As can many others. It always starts clockwise for me, though.

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"We were meant to live for so much more. Have we lost ourselves?" - Switchfoot
----
My poetry
Posts: 432 | Registered: Tuesday, September 18 2007 07:00
Shaper
Member # 6292
Profile #48
quote:
Originally written by Drew:

You know, if you used about half as many words, your posts would be infinitely more readable. Alternately, you could become a lawyer. :)
I am thinking it likely that I am about to make my posts twice as infinitely more readable by reducing them to zero times as many words. I escaped the temptation to become a lawyer shortly after graduating high school, but I was tempted.

-S-

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Posts: 2009 | Registered: Monday, September 12 2005 07:00
By Committee
Member # 4233
Profile #49
Come now, you can't multiply infinity! Just joshing you a little bit, dude. :)

[ Monday, November 05, 2007 05:02: Message edited by: Drew ]

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