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AuthorTopic: Man or God
Agent
Member # 2759
Profile Homepage #175
Does anyone actually believe this a productive discussion where either side is actually listening to the other. Or are they both rehearsing their preconceived viewpoints in the hopes of wearing down the other side. It's unbearingly painful to witness.

And remind me again, what precisely does this thread have to do with Spiderweb Software and its games?

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Espresso - as close as you're going to get to an intravenous caffeine shot.

Geneforge 4 stuff. Also, everything I know about Avernum | Avernum 2 | Avernum 3 | Avernum 4
Posts: 1104 | Registered: Monday, March 10 2003 08:00
Shaper
Member # 32
Profile #176
Mostly the latter, it's difficult to change anyone's opinion on the topic...

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Lt. Sullust
Quaere verum
Posts: 2462 | Registered: Wednesday, October 3 2001 07:00
By Committee
Member # 4233
Profile #177
quote:
Originally written by Dikiyoba:

[T]here [is no] reason why people can't just ignore a thread that doesn't involve them and that they find uninteresting[.]

Posts: 2242 | Registered: Saturday, April 10 2004 07:00
Infiltrator
Member # 10578
Profile Homepage #178
Originally written by Synergy:

Your extra-Biblical explanation for why Peter and the other 11 apostles taught a mixed gospel of works, while Paul taught one solely of grace (as well as universal salvation and restoration) is a retroactive apologetic explanation for why God can’t divinely inspire a coherent, unified message of salvation in His own Bible. I don’t buy it. The gospels are significantly different. Peter and Paul were at controversy with one another. The Church was divided upon itself from day one. And you expect me to think that many years later, consensus is sufficient to rightly divide truth?

The apostles' audiences had very different problems that they needed to address. As such, different letters would obviously have different focus points.

I could probably find answers to all your technical questions on "contradiction," but if you're looking for answers on that (which you may or may not be) i would recommend a book called "Bible Difficulties." I can't remember the author, but you could find it if you wanted to. After all, I'm not much of a Bible scholar. I'm just a 10th grader with a decent education.

I never have. I love the Bible and love to quote many worthy things from it. I just don’t assume it is weighted equally or that its understanding saw past the capacity of its own day. I don’t believe it was ever intended or needed to be a Divine Textbook for all time and place, and that the evidence of itself makes this clear.

Okay then. Yes, some people definitely take it too far, quoting Scripture left and right whatever the context is. Sometimes it's downright ridiculous. :P

You’re right, my heart has been changed, and I am thrilled about it. It continues to change daily. This is the nature of God...neverending unfolding and growth. It’s fantastic. I highly recommend it.

I suppose many people with argue with you on that, but since I like to have an open mind on many issues the Church divides on, I have to agree with you in a way. It is a wonderful thing to grow in your faith.

It instead drove me to seek something much much more, and God has not given me stones when I asked for bread. I appreciate your concern for my peril.

Maybe I have misunderstood you after all. However, I would encourage you to at least look at the character of various denominations before giving up on Christianity. We have a place for you somewhere, if you are willing to look for it. God bless your spiritual journey! :)

- Taliesin (a.k.a. Drayk-ula, Khyryk's Brother)

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"I intend to find out who has the most treasure, kill them, take it, and repeat the process."
Posts: 432 | Registered: Tuesday, September 18 2007 07:00
Lifecrafter
Member # 7723
Profile #179
quote:
Originally written by Synergy:

Stillness, you simply ignore so many of the points of my challenge.
Not intentionally. Just tell me what you want me to respond to, because I guess I don’t get it.

quote:
apparently the huge majority of believers who have sought God and to understand Scriptures have had a wrong heart by your definition, considering all the error, conflicting sects, and apostasy of the last two millennia.
Ah, you’re right. I didn’t address this point. There are two kinds of literal death mentioned in the scriptures – the death that spread from Adam as a result of sin and the second death that means destruction from God.

Mat 10:28 And do not become fearful of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul; but rather be in fear of him that can destroy both soul and body in Gehenna.

Those not destroyed by God that died in ignorance simply because they were descendants of Adam have the hope of resurrection just like God’s faithful servants do.

John 5:28, 29 28 The hour is coming in which all those in the memorial tombs will hear his voice and come out, those who did good things to a resurrection of life, those who practiced vile things to a resurrection of judgment.

So I’m not elitist, thinking that I’m the only one God cares for. He cares for people that didn’t even know him as well. If they couldn’t see the truth because of the Church or for whatever reason, they will have an opportunity to do so and make an informed decision.

Re 20:3 And he hurled him into the abyss and shut it and sealed it over him, that he might not mislead the nations anymore until the thousand years were ended. After these things he must be let loose for a little while.

All the same there have been those throughout the history of Christendom that have been realized that the Church was not following God’s word and have attempted to do something about it. They were silenced, belittled, shunned, killed, and exiled, but they tried their best to understand and follow God’s word.

quote:
All governments do not kill or torture forever their disobedient subjects.
This is a bit of a strawman. God doesn’t torture anyone forever. He also doesn’t kill all disobedient subjects. Those that are unrepentantly disobedient will be killed. Even human governments will at least lock you away to die separated from society under these circumstances. And some of them will kill you. God has every right and is perfectly justified in doing the same.

quote:
You see what you want. You believe what you need to believe, even when it flies in the face of all fact and reason. This is what religion does.
All of them except yours?

I’ll tell you what. Some of your “contradictions” are worthy of investigation, some trifling, and some downright dishonest so much so that I don’t think you’d post it if you looked at the scriptures. Why don’t you look into it yourself and tell me which ones you believe are valid. Then I can discuss with you and not argue against the internet and have you claim these aren’t your points anyway like last time.
Posts: 701 | Registered: Thursday, November 30 2006 08:00
Nuke and Pave
Member # 24
Profile Homepage #180
quote:
Originally written by Micawber:

Does anyone actually believe this a productive discussion where either side is actually listening to the other. Or are they both rehearsing their preconceived viewpoints in the hopes of wearing down the other side. It's unbearingly painful to witness.

And remind me again, what precisely does this thread have to do with Spiderweb Software and its games?

Nobody is forcing you to read any of this.

There are some parts of this thread that are interesting, like SoT's professional explanations of the state of modern physics/cosmology/whatever. As for the rest, it's not that hard to press PageDown key a few times.

And more on topic ...
quote:
Originally written by 2disbetter:

...
That right there should be a problem for anyone. Why is there 3 billion different versions of the bible? (that number is an exageration)
...
That does not mean the original was not divinely inspired. I'm just saying it is possible that the real un-altered unchanged bible might be lost.
...
As for the discrepancies, you might want to ask the individuals who translated them. They coudl probably tell you why they felt the need to change things. (read: there is no reason, but they did it anyway)

It is never possible to make an "accurate" translation, because even "same" words have slightly different meanings in different languages.

An example from linguistics class is the simple word "on", which in some languages means "touching the surface" (for example, "a picture on a wall"), while in others it means "on top of" (e.g. "a book on the desk"). Then there is a difference in degree to which one object has to touch another to still be considered "on" it. (If a book is balanced on a corner, is it still "on" the desk? Some languages say "yes". Others say "no".) And this is just a simple preposition. You can imagine how much more complicated things get when you try to translate more abstract ideas, especially once you get into idioms, wordplay, etc.

So the reason for multiple versions of the Bible is that there are many ways to translate even simplest sentences, so each translation will be different even before you get into interpretation. Which means that people who want to make meaningful arguments about the text have to read the original in Hebrew, Arameic, Latin, etc.

As for whether "the original" still exists, the fartherst back we can go without changes is about 2nd century AD, when Jews started treating Torah (part of Old Testament) as literally holy text and copying it with corresponding care. So today you can look at a Torah scroll in any synagogue in the world and see exactly same text, including positioning of each individual letter.

However, before that point the records were treated less carefully, so there are different versions of various stories. (Dead Sea Scrolls are an example of a set of ancient documents from a geographically isolated community which are different from the versions of same stories popular today.) Even the books of Old Testament itself look like compilations. There are places where same passage is repeated twice with different details. (I guess the people originally compiling the texts couldn't decide which version was correct, so they put both of them in.)

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Be careful with a word, as you would with a sword,
For it too has the power to kill.
However well placed word, unlike a well placed sword,
Can also have the power to heal.
Posts: 2649 | Registered: Wednesday, October 3 2001 07:00
? Man, ? Amazing
Member # 5755
Profile #181
quote:
Originally written by Taliesin:

I could probably find answers to all your technical questions on "contradiction," but if you're looking for answers on that (which you may or may not be) i would recommend a book called "Bible Difficulties."
quote:
Originally written by Stillness:

Why don’t you look into it yourself and tell me which ones you believe are valid.

This cracks me up. It should be no surprise to anyone that this discussion isn't proceeding in any direction.

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Synergy, et al - "I don't get it."

Thralni - "a lot of people are ... too weird to be trusted"
Posts: 4114 | Registered: Monday, April 25 2005 07:00
Shaper
Member # 6292
Profile #182
I'm getting precious little serious engagement on key challenges I pose. I think it is well time I truly washed my hands of this one.

The critics are correct in that these debates rarely change the minds of the primary protagonists. Still, I daresay, points have been made on many sides which have caused many reading to think about some things in new ways or for the first time. And that's enough for me. Neither Stillness nor I are deluded to vainly imagine we are going to sway the other from our understanding. The exercise of challenging all one thinks one knows is always a worthy one. It's provocative and evocative. I love it.

I do contend with Stillness' suggestion that I am speaking from a religion. I speak from whatever disparate idea has caused my soul to leap up in joy and acknowledgement of what it already knows when I encounter it. I believe in a God Who is freely available to me within me this way, and speaks to me through my deepest feeling before anything else.

Religion requires a code and dogma and tradition fashioned by others. I have none of this and ever seek to push it from me. Religion and spirituality are two very different animals. One is from without, and the other from within.

To the whiners who seem compelled to keep looking in here in disgust and criticize those of us who have been getting along just fine here, (thank you very much,) get a life. What are you doing in here in the first place if you have no interest in this kind of dialogue? And even more bizarre, what brings you back?

SoT continues to make reasonable points I appreciate and largely agree with typically. I do believe many or most of the events of the NT happened in some fashion. I also believe the moment you commit anything to written word, it is already compromised and prey to all kinds of misunderstanding and loss. Which is why all such records are meant to point to God and experiential relationship of God and the mind of God in you for your life right now, and not serve to substitute for God and Truth in you. I really don't care what any other Godly person has done or known, in one sense. I am here to life this life, and it is not going to look like theirs or any other. Religion conforms. Spirituality liberates. May we all know such liberty and never settle for less than our full inheritance.

-S-

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A4 ItemsA4 SingletonG4 ItemsG4 ForgingG4 Infiltrator NR Items The Lonely Celt
Posts: 2009 | Registered: Monday, September 12 2005 07:00
Guardian
Member # 6670
Profile Homepage #183
By Micawber:
quote:
And remind me again, what precisely does this thread have to do with Spiderweb Software and its games?
To build on what Synergy said, the entire point of General is to keep the forumers around. The purpose of the board as a whole is helping people out with the games (and thus decrease the workload on Jeff Vogel), but that hardly keeps people coming back day after day. General does, and thus are we fiendishly bound to this board.

And I'd like to add that just because not everyone posts in this thread doesn't mean it isn't read. I don't have the time, much less the skill, to jump into most online debates, but that doesn't mean I don't try to keep somewhat up to date on them.

Meh. The post would have been better if I had the time to post it at noon.

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Just open both doors. Hopefully the Tiger goes for the Lady.
Posts: 1509 | Registered: Tuesday, January 10 2006 08:00
Infiltrator
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Profile Homepage #184
Given Synergy's perspective on religion, I'm not surprised he left whatever church he grew up in. Whenever someone treats religion that way (and unfortunately there are many), they give their faith a bad name.

When religion is at odds with spirituality, that religion has serious problems. But I think it is unfair to say that this is always the case. That's not my religion. If it was, I too would quickly outgrow it.

Somewhere, Synergy, there is a good church waiting for you. A church that sees God's truth as truly liberating. A church that does not seek to control you. A church with true faith. I hope you will find it someday.

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"I intend to find out who has the most treasure, kill them, take it, and repeat the process."
Posts: 432 | Registered: Tuesday, September 18 2007 07:00
Shaper
Member # 6292
Profile #185
;)

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A4 ItemsA4 SingletonG4 ItemsG4 ForgingG4 Infiltrator NR Items The Lonely Celt
Posts: 2009 | Registered: Monday, September 12 2005 07:00
Off With Their Heads
Member # 4045
Profile Homepage #186
quote:
Originally written by Stillness:

quote:
Originally written by Kelandon:

Eh, or you redefine time, which seems to be the real way to escape the problem.
That is of course assuming you have the problem with the eternal. And also making the big fat assumption that the universe we think is expanding is the universe and there is nothing else.

Well, science fundamentally has no problem with eternity. The Steady state theory for the history of the universe was widely considered possible for a good, long while. It wasn't until the discovery of the CMB that the concept of an eternal universe no longer seemed tenable. COBE, WMAP, and the like have made it much harder to oppose the Big Bang model. But there's nothing inherently wrong with hypothesizing that something exists that is infinite in a time dimension, at least until the evidence starts to disagree with it, as it has begun to do now.

[ Tuesday, September 25, 2007 21:27: Message edited by: Kelandon ]

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Arancaytar: Every time you ask people to compare TM and Kel, you endanger the poor, fluffy kittens.
Smoo: Get ready to face the walls!
Ephesos: In conclusion, yarr.

Kelandon's Pink and Pretty Page!!: the authorized location for all things by me
The Archive of all released BoE scenarios ever
Posts: 7968 | Registered: Saturday, February 28 2004 08:00
Lifecrafter
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Profile #187
quote:
Originally written by Kelandon:

But there's nothing inherently wrong with hypothesizing that something exists that is infinite in a time dimension, at least until the evidence starts to disagree with it, as it has begun to do now.
What evidence? If you’re saying time didn’t begin for the universe until the universe begin, I don’t have a problem with that. I doubt you’re saying that though, because you wouldn’t really be saying much of anything. It seems you’re saying that time itself didn’t begin until the universe did. That presumes a great deal. Namely, that what is seen to be expanding is everything – that there is nothing else for which the clock was already ticking.
Posts: 701 | Registered: Thursday, November 30 2006 08:00
Electric Sheep One
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Profile #188
Physics does not speak about time outside the universe.

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We're not doing cool. We're doing pretty.
Posts: 3335 | Registered: Thursday, September 4 2003 07:00
Lifecrafter
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Profile #189
Synergy,

I can’t address every single word you say. This thread would be quadruple the size it is. You do tend to go on. We both do. You haven’t addressed a lot of the stuff I’ve said either. But, I think I’ve done pretty well in addressing your major points and any points you specifically asked me to address.

As far as religion goes, everybody has one. You say you push away code and dogma, that’s part of your religion, or way of living, and is code or dogma itself. Your designation of your faith as spiritual and Christianity as not, is arbitrary. A religion can be spiritual or secular. Christianity has a Master who is a spirit, a God who’s a spirit, a spiritual enemy, a hope based on the spirit realm, and instructions to “see” that realm and not to focus so much on the physical. You don’t get much more spiritual.

From Merriam-Webster online
re·li·gion
1 a :the state of a religious <a nun in her 20th year of religion >b(1) :the service and worship of God or the supernatural (2) :commitment or devotion to religious faith or observance
2:a personal set or institutionalized system of religious attitudes, beliefs, and practices
3archaic :scrupulous conformity :CONSCIENTIOUSNESS
4:a cause, principle, or system of beliefs held to with ardor and faith

spir·i·tu·al
1:of, relating to, consisting of, or affecting the spirit :INCORPOREAL <spiritual needs>
2 a :of or relating to sacred matters < spiritual songs> b:ecclesiastical rather than lay or temporal < spiritual authority> <lords spiritual >
3:concerned with religious values
4:related or joined in spirit <our spiritual home> <his spiritual heir>
5 a :of or relating to supernatural beings or phenomena b:of, relating to, or involving spiritualism :SPIRITUALISTIC

I find one of the best tools for understanding is the dictionary.

As far as me speaking from the Bible, I do so because it is God’s explanation. If you want to know how he feels and why he does things then he is the best person to look to, not me. That’s what the thread is about after all. Besides that I agree with the biblical explanation. If you want to know what my “religion” is, it’s that I believe what makes sense. The Bible says that God tries to reach people, but they push his hand away in favor of establishing their own code. Instead of looking to the Creator to set the standards of good and bad, they determine for themselves how the Creator should be followed and if he should be followed at all. I look out in the world and this is exactly what I see. I talk to a lot of people and they tell me as much. Do you know how much I hear, "I'm more spiritual than religious." When I ask people what that means they basically say "I serve God in my own way." They don’t want the truth. If I tell the contractor I want my walls painted light blue and when the job is done I have pink wallpaper and his explanation is, "I did your job in my own way because I thought that was best" there's no way I'll be pleased or that he'll get paid.

God is not the type to force obedience on people. He made animals for that, but he made us differently. He does have a personality, a mind, and feelings though. He has a way. He also has a way he wants us to behave. You can do something you think is better, but not with the expectation of his pleasure and a favorable reward when the time comes for payment.

Job 40:8 Really, will you invalidate my justice?
Will you pronounce me wicked in order that you may be in the right?

Mat 7:21-23 Not everyone saying to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter into the kingdom of the heavens, but the one doing the will of my Father who is in the heavens will. Many will say to me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and expel demons in your name, and perform many powerful works in your name?’ And yet then I will confess to them: I never knew YOU! Get away from me, YOU workers of lawlessness.


People have always been trying to say God is wicked so that they can justify their actions. People have always claimed to worship God and do things in his name, while in reality they reject his will. And that is why I rely so heavily on the holy scriptures. They are just as relevant now for those that want to know God as when they were written - in some ways more. Only God could be responsible for such a book. That’s what makes sense to me. It’s not because I want to believe, or I was taught to believe it. It’s because it’s the best explanation that I’ve ever heard. If there is a better god or a better explanation, then I’m all ears.
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So, "time didn't start until the universe did" means "time didn't start for this universe until the big bang." That's cool, but just doesn't seem to be a very information-laden statement. All it says is that the universe didn't exist before it existed.
Posts: 701 | Registered: Thursday, November 30 2006 08:00
Off With Their Heads
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Profile Homepage #191
quote:
Originally written by Stillness:

So, "time didn't start until the universe did" means "time didn't start for this universe until the big bang." That's cool, but just doesn't seem to be a very information-laden statement. All it says is that the universe didn't exist before it existed.
You missed the point, I think. I was explaining why this is actually a non-trivial statement. Scientists used to think that the universe didn't have a beginning: it had always existed and would always exist. Now we're pretty sure it did have a beginning. This surprised people (not anyone who believes in creation, obviously, but it surprised scientists).

If you want to postulate something eternal outside the universe, you first have to define time outside the universe, which turns out to be non-trivial as well. Current scientific understanding — and this is now brushing up against the edges of current research, so who knows, but it's the best we've got right now — is that it only makes sense to speak of time within the universe, as SoT said.

[ Wednesday, September 26, 2007 06:23: Message edited by: Kelandon ]

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Arancaytar: Every time you ask people to compare TM and Kel, you endanger the poor, fluffy kittens.
Smoo: Get ready to face the walls!
Ephesos: In conclusion, yarr.

Kelandon's Pink and Pretty Page!!: the authorized location for all things by me
The Archive of all released BoE scenarios ever
Posts: 7968 | Registered: Saturday, February 28 2004 08:00
Lifecrafter
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Profile #192
quote:
Originally written by Kelandon:

it only makes sense to speak of time within the universe
That seems an odd thing to say. I undertand if physics is limited to the observable, but how does only time within the universe make sense. Does that rule out time outside of the universe? Or are you just saying that what is outside the universe is an unknown? I can understand the latter. But, again, the former sounds presumptuous and unscientific.
Posts: 701 | Registered: Thursday, November 30 2006 08:00
Electric Sheep One
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Profile #193
Time within the universe turns out not to conform to all our intuitions. So any suppositions about time outside the universe are such wild shots in the dark that no-one really ought to pay them any attention. There might be time outside the universe; there might be duckies.

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We're not doing cool. We're doing pretty.
Posts: 3335 | Registered: Thursday, September 4 2003 07:00
Lifecrafter
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quote:
Originally written by Student of Trinity:

Time within the universe turns out not to conform to all our intuitions. So any suppositions about time outside the universe are such wild shots in the dark that no-one really ought to pay them any attention.
I don't see how the second statement follows from the first, but I understand if something is unknown and unknowable for the foreseeable future. i just hope you guys aren't saying "we don't know about what's outside the universe if anything, so it doesn't exist." I doubt you are. I'm probably just not understanding.
Posts: 701 | Registered: Thursday, November 30 2006 08:00
Off With Their Heads
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In the language of relativity, we localize something in the universe in space-time via four coordinates (x,y,z,t). "Outside the universe" can presumably be defined as "not describable by those coordinates" — which means that it doesn't make sense to speak of spacial directions or a time direction.

The usual layman's way of conceptualizing something outside the universe is just to imagine a discontinuity: there's something else just like the universe, but it's not connected to the universe somehow — maybe we can teleport to it or something. If so, we could imagine a completely separate set of axes for that gob of space-time beyond the discontinuity, and you might be able to speak of there being a sort of time for that separate place. There is no evidence for such a thing, but I suppose it is possible.

[ Wednesday, September 26, 2007 10:08: Message edited by: Kelandon ]

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Arancaytar: Every time you ask people to compare TM and Kel, you endanger the poor, fluffy kittens.
Smoo: Get ready to face the walls!
Ephesos: In conclusion, yarr.

Kelandon's Pink and Pretty Page!!: the authorized location for all things by me
The Archive of all released BoE scenarios ever
Posts: 7968 | Registered: Saturday, February 28 2004 08:00
Lifecrafter
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Profile #196
A language not having words for a thing and a thing not existing or making sense are very different and the latter does not follow from the former.

EDIT: Ah, I think we're on the same page. I posted when you edited.

[ Wednesday, September 26, 2007 10:11: Message edited by: Stillness ]
Posts: 701 | Registered: Thursday, November 30 2006 08:00
Off With Their Heads
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But if English doesn't have words for it, then "time" certainly isn't the right word for it. :P

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Arancaytar: Every time you ask people to compare TM and Kel, you endanger the poor, fluffy kittens.
Smoo: Get ready to face the walls!
Ephesos: In conclusion, yarr.

Kelandon's Pink and Pretty Page!!: the authorized location for all things by me
The Archive of all released BoE scenarios ever
Posts: 7968 | Registered: Saturday, February 28 2004 08:00
Shaper
Member # 6292
Profile #198
Stillness, do forgive my tendency to be overwrought and to come on so strong. Every time I exercise and test where I am at with a context like this, I observe two things within myself: change from the last time I undertook the endeavor, and how I seek yet to change and grow beyond. I am now especially aware how much more respectful I am to be toward those of differing faith and belief. I have fallen prey to mind over spirit in this life, along with most of the world which currently worships knowledge over wisdom and spirit. I am endeavoring to live my life by example and learn to say very little except when invited. That's what sells stuff, when they see what you are and want it too. I see us all as spiritual, lest that is not understood.

I get too excited though. I want to talk about all kinds of things, and don't like feeling alone, or get impatient when others don't share in my enthusiasm and vision. Please forgive me for any offense I have caused through my words and attitudes here. I do wish to honor each and every person and what they hold dear, and I was definitely not so good at that through much of my earlier life. If I were often on the receiving end of myself, I think I'd feel pretty offended at times.

...

I do have some interest in the shift in topic now, as well. I'll just paint a picture without elaborating on where this comes from or what merit it might have. It will marry the science of time and space with God, which we are discussing. So enjoy the ride, if you can, even if you think it's preposterous.

Before time, God existed as pure energy and thought. God knew who He is, but it was conceptual only. God could not enjoy or experience what God is without doing the two things God really is in quality: Create and Love. So, in order to experience Herself, God used thought to form matter. This is the scientific principle of this created universe. Strong enough thought (far stronger than most individuals at this point could accomplish,) or vast collective thought over a long time, causes pure energy to form into what we call matter. God thought and spoke, and the pure energy He is was split infinitely into what we call spirits/souls which is what we are. God now had countless reference points by which to observe Itself.

But all was still one in the Absolute Love that is God. It was all still contained in an energetic singularity, a realm of no other quality. Love could still not be experienced. So God thought and spoke some more and the material universe sprang into being in an instant, exactly as the Big Bang has described, flying out for eons to form the vast expanse of space we now observe.

This material realm was specially created to be a realm of duality, whereas in God all things are One, and also three, as seen in the symbols of Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. In our gross material realm, we are subjected to a contrivance of duality. We have light/dark, hot/cold, here/there, up/down, left/right....Love/fear. All of this was contrived purely so God might experience Herself through us as us, fashioning the illusion of separation and lack. Now as humanity emerges as the myriads of God Himself, we have all agreed to collaborate on this grand experience, and to play this game. It is all for God to experience being God which is to be Lover and Creator. We are Lovers and Creators in God's image. We strive to recreate the perfection of Love which is deep in our knowing Soul, which is never in the dark or apart from God.

Time is simply the measure of bodies in motion. In this material realm of duality, we have: here, not here (or there), and the space between. The space between is the time it takes to move from here to there. We know and measure time by the turning of our planet, its orbit around the sun, the spinning of our galaxy, the expansion of the universe, the change of seasons, the beating of our hearts, the vibrating of a Cesium atom. Time too is an illusion of this realm of duality. In reality, time is like infinite postcards on a spindle called Now, the only time that actually exists, and it exists forever with all time past, present, and future in God. It is actually accessible, if we know how. Don't ask me to explain that further. I can't.

The universe and all its matter is bound together by the energy emanating in a vast matrix shaped by every thought, feeling, and word that Beings project, along with the permanent field of energy radiating from the Soul. Thoughts are forever. They go out into the universe and travel forever. Enough of the same thought, or enough people thinking the same thought eventually fashions pure energy into matter. Matter takes a long time to form, but is very resilient once it is formed. Collective consciousness has created so much of the world as we now experience it, and I'm not just meaning the physical planet. Because we are in God's image, we are creators with God. Our every thought and word is a creative force we scarcely yet comprehend.

Ultimately, the universe will collapse upon itself and the yearning of our Souls to return into the great Absolute, the Oneness of God will be fulfilled. Yet, God will create again and yet another universe will spring forth. God only knows how many times this has already occurred. God says, "This is my breathing." In and out. God also promises that our existence as a Soul/Mind/Body will continue forever, somehow through all of this. There are infinities to explore and experience over this incomprehsibly vast spread of space and time. It all begins and ends in the Absoluteness of God, the all in all, the Alpha and Omega.

Could we really expect God to be less vast and expansive in expression than this? And I think there is indication and inkling that it gets even bigger than this on a furthermore unimaginable scale...but that's another story.

-S-

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Posts: 2009 | Registered: Monday, September 12 2005 07:00
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Profile #199
quote:
Originally written by Synergy:

Stillness, do forgive
No need to. I wasn't offended. You misread me it seems. I don't think you've ever offended me, because I get where you're coming from and that's not a place where you want to hurt anyone. Sure you may through a little jab every now and again, but it's not mean-spirited. I can take it. We're cool.
Posts: 701 | Registered: Thursday, November 30 2006 08:00

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