Hanged?
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Warrior
Member # 6759
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written Monday, February 13 2006 05:58
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I just read this absolutely disgusting article: Iran Focus Tehran, Iran, Jan. 07 – An Iranian court has sentenced a teenage rape victim to death by hanging after she weepingly confessed that she had unintentionally killed a man who had tried to rape both her and her niece. The state-run daily Etemaad reported on Saturday that 18-year-old Nazanin confessed to stabbing one of three men who had attacked the pair along with their boyfriends while they were spending some time in a park west of the Iranian capital in March 2005. Nazanin, who was 17 years old at the time of the incident, said that after the three men started to throw stones at them, the two girls’ boyfriends quickly escaped on their motorbikes leaving the pair helpless. She described how the three men pushed her and her 16-year-old niece Somayeh onto the ground and tried to rape them, and said that she took out a knife from her pocket and stabbed one of the men in the hand. As the girls tried to escape, the men once again attacked them, and at this point, Nazanin said, she stabbed one of the men in the chest. The teenage girl, however, broke down in tears in court as she explained that she had no intention of killing the man but was merely defending herself and her younger niece from rape, the report said. The court, however, issued on Tuesday a sentence for Nazanin to be hanged to death. Last week, a court in the city of Rasht, northern Iran, sentenced Delara Darabi to death by hanging charged with murder when she was 17 years old. Darabi has denied the charges. In August 2004, Iran’s Islamic penal system sentenced a 16-year-old girl, Atefeh Rajabi, to death after a sham trial, in which she was accused of committing “acts incompatible with chastity”. The teenage victim had no access to a lawyer at any stage and efforts by her family to retain one were to no avail. Atefeh personally defended herself and told the religious judge that he should punish those who force women into adultery, not the victims. She was eventually hanged in public in the northern town of Neka. Found on http://www.iranfocus.com/modules/news/article.php?storyid=5183 She was the same age as me and just defending herself. This just shows how corrupt that country is. And I'm rather outraged with the press, I don't remember this story being reported on the news, didn't they think it was important enough? As for the way they killed her, HANGING? Didn't they do that during medieval times and not the 21st century!?!?!?! IT'S COMPLETELY INHUMANE. I think it's far more outrageous than those cartoons. Posts: 77 | Registered: Wednesday, February 1 2006 08:00 |
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Infiltrator
Member # 4248
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written Monday, February 13 2006 06:24
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Hanging is not inhumane if done right; the neck of the sentenced breaks, resulting to immediate death. The method is still in wide use. However, it is highly disturbing that they even considered death by hanging in any of those cases, and the fact that they went from words to deeds just makes it... gah. I can find no words to describe the sheer idiocy of those decisions. In my opinion, if they want to kill people, they should at least make it seem plausible. -------------------- I have nothing more to do in this world, so I can go & pester the inhabitants of the next one with a pure concscience. Posts: 617 | Registered: Tuesday, April 13 2004 07:00 |
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Lifecrafter
Member # 1468
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written Monday, February 13 2006 06:28
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It's like they just look for reasons to kill people and riot. -------------------- "We can learn a lot from crayons. Some are short, some are dull, some are sharp, some are tall. Some have funny names and they are all different colors, but they all learn to live in the same box." "Happy is the man that has wisdom and gets discernment. For having wisdom as gain is better than having silver as gain and having wisdom as produce is better than gold itself" Proverbs 3:14-3:15 The horrible part about life is, you'll never get out of it alive. Currently boycotting: AngelFire, GameFAQ's, Macintosh PC's Posts: 818 | Registered: Tuesday, July 9 2002 07:00 |
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Law Bringer
Member # 2984
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written Monday, February 13 2006 06:46
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In the same manner in which we cannot excuse the Iraq invasion with 9/11, and can excuse neither Palestine suicide bombers with settler brutality nor vice versa, we cannot excuse the planned Iran invasion (which would kill thousands of people no less innocent) with the murder of this woman. However, it is an atrocity on several counts: For the first, she seems to have at no point received justice for being the victim of a rape crime, for the second, her rights to legal assistance were fully ignored, and thirdly, she was sentenced to a barbaric penalty that is abolished almost everywhere except in developing countries, theocratic dictatorships and the United States. It is impossible not to agree that Something Must Be Done™. But what - preferably without resulting in the mess that has been wreaked elsewhere (say, Iraq) supposedly in the name of "freedom"? -------------------- Encyclopaedia Ermariana • Forum Archives • Forum Statistics • RSS [Topic / Forum] My Blog • Polaris • I eat novels for breakfast. Polaris is dead, long live Polaris. Look on my works, ye mighty, and despair. Posts: 8752 | Registered: Wednesday, May 14 2003 07:00 |
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Law Bringer
Member # 4153
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written Monday, February 13 2006 07:41
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quote:Quite true. But whenever we hear "something must be done" in America, it seems that massive troop deployments are always the solution. That's not what the situation needs. If only there was a way to go back and alter hundreds of years of cultural practices... Sadly, I can't see any feasible solution beyond the time-travel-and-change-their-customs one. No more wars over injustice... they just tread on the already-downtrodden, and often have questionable end-goals. -------------------- Gamble with Gaea, and she eats your dice. I hate undead. I really, really, really, really hate undead. With a passion. Posts: 4130 | Registered: Friday, March 26 2004 08:00 |
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Law Bringer
Member # 2984
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written Monday, February 13 2006 07:48
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Fighting for peace is like --ing for virginity, it has been so aptly said. The same goes for occupying countries for liberty, by the way... Edit: No m-dash. [ Monday, February 13, 2006 07:59: Message edited by: Arancaytar the Grey ] -------------------- Encyclopaedia Ermariana • Forum Archives • Forum Statistics • RSS [Topic / Forum] My Blog • Polaris • I eat novels for breakfast. Polaris is dead, long live Polaris. Look on my works, ye mighty, and despair. Posts: 8752 | Registered: Wednesday, May 14 2003 07:00 |
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Lifecrafter
Member # 1768
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written Monday, February 13 2006 12:56
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I agree, but I wish there was a way to incite the people of Iran against their government. That would be the better way, if you ask me. This was all the CIA's fault anyway, because of their first coup idea. -------------------- "Oh, North Wind, why frighten others? In Nature's family all are brothers. Puff and blow and wheeze and hiss; You can't frighten Shingebiss. Bring your frost and ice and snow; I'm still free to come and go. You can never frighten me, One who never fears is FREE!" -Shingebiss, the mighty duck Posts: 830 | Registered: Tuesday, August 20 2002 07:00 |
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E Equals MC What!!!!
Member # 5491
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written Monday, February 13 2006 13:23
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quote:A catchy soundbite, but not an apt analogy. Virginity means you've never had sex. Peace does not imply that war never happened in the past. A more relevant analogy would be, say, a woman prostituting herself regularly in the short term to build up the capital to start up a business so she no longer has to prostitute herself occasionally in the long term to get by. Certainly you could still oppose such a thing, but it lacks a certain something. Not as snappy. Not as easily digestable. Doesn't provoke as much righteous outrage. But on the other hand, you wouldn't get me rolling my eyes at you for using it. *removes baby-kicking boots* -------------------- SupaNik: Aran, you're not big enough to threaten Ash. Dammit, even JV had to think twice. Posts: 1861 | Registered: Friday, February 11 2005 08:00 |
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Law Bringer
Member # 335
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written Monday, February 13 2006 13:29
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In fixing the soundbite you also changed the meaning, Ash. War for peace is like a woman prostituting herself to raise money to end prostitution. That's a little harder on the tongue, but it's still a decent clip for the talk shows. —Alorael, who supposes he should be politically correct and point out that any men wishing to prostitute themselves to end prostitution have an equal right under the law to do so wherever the law does not forbid such. Posts: 14579 | Registered: Saturday, December 1 2001 08:00 |
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? Man, ? Amazing
Member # 5755
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written Monday, February 13 2006 13:30
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If we feel the right to apply our (Western) morals and laws to their society, how are they no less proper to demand the same of our society? -------------------- quote: Posts: 4114 | Registered: Monday, April 25 2005 07:00 |
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Law Bringer
Member # 2984
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written Monday, February 13 2006 13:33
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The question is whether or not a distinction should be made between the right to life and the right to have your religion respected. Should there? -------------------- Encyclopaedia Ermariana • Forum Archives • Forum Statistics • RSS [Topic / Forum] My Blog • Polaris • I eat novels for breakfast. Polaris is dead, long live Polaris. Look on my works, ye mighty, and despair. Posts: 8752 | Registered: Wednesday, May 14 2003 07:00 |
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Councilor
Member # 6600
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written Monday, February 13 2006 14:17
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In theory, most major religions and the respect for life go together when all the rules and laws are peeled away to reveal the purest intent of it. But humans happen to enjoy laws (and a sense of moral superiority), so the rules overshadow the intent. Dikiyoba. Posts: 4346 | Registered: Friday, December 23 2005 08:00 |
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Agent
Member # 27
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written Monday, February 13 2006 14:24
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How sad. Somehow I can't help but feel that a man in the same position would have been let go. There were probably many 'under the counter' factors to her sentence. The man she killed could have been a relative to someone important or wealthy, or the other men are related to someone important and want her dead. Could also be tied to the general disrespect* for women in that culture. *By western standards. I assume that Islam stresses great respect for women. [ Monday, February 13, 2006 14:28: Message edited by: Enraged Slith ] Posts: 1233 | Registered: Wednesday, October 3 2001 07:00 |
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Shaper
Member # 6292
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written Monday, February 13 2006 14:40
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I believe the most effective way to alter the behavior and perspectives and attitudes of the many over time is to demonstrate that which is true and which works. If America demonstrated the heart of the message of the Christianity it largely arose out of, it might have had much more positive influence in the world, even shifting religious/spiritual preference in other nations, rather than making itself the odious, mercenary, elitist,and self-righteous nation it is largely perceived as being today. On an individual level, we can live and demonstrate the high ground. This really does affect and can ultimately change other people within our sphere of influence. It has to be genuine. Works for the same reason why love, smiles, and laughter can be contagious. People emulate that which they admire and seems desirable. -------------------- A4 Item Locations A4 Singleton G4 Items List G4 Forging List The Insidious Infiltrator Posts: 2009 | Registered: Monday, September 12 2005 07:00 |
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Law Bringer
Member # 2984
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written Monday, February 13 2006 15:20
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quote:"Can't help but feel" has nothing to do with it - it is a fact. quote:Possibly in a similar way that Christianity does. -------------------- Encyclopaedia Ermariana • Forum Archives • Forum Statistics • RSS [Topic / Forum] My Blog • Polaris • I eat novels for breakfast. Polaris is dead, long live Polaris. Look on my works, ye mighty, and despair. Posts: 8752 | Registered: Wednesday, May 14 2003 07:00 |
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Warrior
Member # 6714
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written Monday, February 13 2006 15:21
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quote:They're not, and that's the point. I'm all for respecting other cultures. But there's a point where it's just wrong no matter what. And this kind of thing is wrong. I'm proud of being a part of Western civilization, and I'm not gonna cower by saying "Well we should just respect how they see it." No. Because that's denying how you've been raised and who you are. And this is wrong, most assuredly. There is no justice in this. But we can't do anything about it either, which is a downright shame. -------------------- Well that signature was out of date, since I've not been here in forever. Posts: 91 | Registered: Thursday, January 19 2006 08:00 |
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Lifecrafter
Member # 6388
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written Monday, February 13 2006 15:22
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quote:And in a half millenium cooler heads will probably talk them down to denying abortion, limiting access to contraceptives, and sabotaging equal-rights amendments. quote:I do love a good paean to moralism. Consider trying to marry a member of a different race and being told this; feels a little less right, doesn't it? The answer here isn't "Well, we're right and they're wrong", because the question isn't "Who's right, Christianity or Islam?" Boil it down to that question and you'll get the wrong answer every time. The question is "What's the problem here?" The answer to that? They're killing people, for one, and killing people is wrong. (The moral clarity opposition to the death penalty offers is refreshing - you should try it sometime.) For another, they're legally denying the humanity of human beings by refusing equal protection under the law. Then the other question is "What is to be done?" And, well, that one's a tad trickier. [ Monday, February 13, 2006 15:27: Message edited by: Belisarius ] Posts: 794 | Registered: Tuesday, October 11 2005 07:00 |
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Lifecrafter
Member # 1768
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written Monday, February 13 2006 17:24
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quote:BLOW THINGS UP!!![/ape-man voice] -------------------- "Oh, North Wind, why frighten others? In Nature's family all are brothers. Puff and blow and wheeze and hiss; You can't frighten Shingebiss. Bring your frost and ice and snow; I'm still free to come and go. You can never frighten me, One who never fears is FREE!" -Shingebiss, the mighty duck Posts: 830 | Registered: Tuesday, August 20 2002 07:00 |
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Lifecrafter
Member # 34
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written Monday, February 13 2006 21:06
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That news is shocking and saddening to hear. But what if we had been living in that society for our entire lives? It probably would make a lot more sense. Logic, reason, and right/wrong all seem to be relative. Reading Huckleberry Finn a few days back was interesting because it portrays slavery, another controversial concept, as it would appear to a Southerner during that time. Even though Huck's eventually against slavery, it still takes a lot of effort for him to get up the courage and the gumption to realize he actually is against it, and it's neat to see his view in the first place. But to both slavery and the hanging of defenseless women in a male-supremecist society, I growl. -------------------- Frisbeetarianism is the belief that when you die, your soul goes up on the roof and gets stuck. 'Spiderweb Software' anagrammmed: 'Word-bereft A**wipe' Posts: 702 | Registered: Wednesday, October 3 2001 07:00 |
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Infiltrator
Member # 154
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written Monday, February 13 2006 22:23
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quote:No, it's not. Like the others posting in this topic, I think that the judgement that was made is a bad thing, in general. This does not instantly give other countries the right to interfere. If the people IN that country don't like it, it's THEM that complain, not some external country deciding that a country doesn't have a right to it's own ways. (Also, didn't the US give Iraq democracy, and everyone in general voted for what the country was already like? Or so I recall someone telling me.) By all means, bug the people IN the country and tell them how much their government sucks, sure. But if a country isn't annoying your country, I don't see what [moral] right your country has to go interfering. I also find it ironic that the US threateans to invade countries planning on developing nuclear weapons and so forth. By making the threats they give those countries an actual reason to develop nuclear weapons; to have a better chance at defending itself against those potential invasions. [ Monday, February 13, 2006 22:30: Message edited by: Polyester ] -------------------- Apparently still annoying. Posts: 612 | Registered: Saturday, October 13 2001 07:00 |
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BANNED
Member # 4
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written Monday, February 13 2006 22:40
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quote:There are a certain dead 6 million jews who might beg to disagree. -------------------- * Posts: 6936 | Registered: Tuesday, September 18 2001 07:00 |
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Law Bringer
Member # 2984
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written Monday, February 13 2006 22:42
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quote:More's the trouble. The US gave a relatively secular, dictatorial Iraq "democracy", and everyone voted for the fundamentalist dictators instead, because those promised to get the US out. In effect, by making themselves the enemy, the US have turned Iraq into exactly what they claimed it was - a rubble-filled, corrupt and ultra-fundamentalist country filled with people who hate the West. Edit: ^^^ What TM said. Non-interventionism is often a good policy, but not when lives and human rights are at stake. Here (and in Austria), if you fail to render assistance to someone and you are both aware of the need and capable of helping without disproportionate risk to yourself, you can actually be charged. And not too mildly either - it can be up to a year of jail, according to Wikipedia. (I don't know whether a law like this exists elsewhere, though). Now, international affairs can't be analogized in this way, but I feel it would be immoral to look away. [ Monday, February 13, 2006 22:51: Message edited by: Arancaytar the Grey ] -------------------- Encyclopaedia Ermariana • Forum Archives • Forum Statistics • RSS [Topic / Forum] My Blog • Polaris • I eat novels for breakfast. Polaris is dead, long live Polaris. Look on my works, ye mighty, and despair. Posts: 8752 | Registered: Wednesday, May 14 2003 07:00 |
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Lifecrafter
Member # 1768
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written Tuesday, February 14 2006 08:13
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Thanks TM, I was about to say… We've almost turned Iraq into what Iran is now. Meh. quote:This is my deal with N. Korea (and what ever happened about their nukes?) They actually have nuklear weapons in the control of a dynastic ruler who has earned the hate of the world. *Thinks about George W for a second* and yet I remain a political conservative…meh. Anyway, their egregious (spelling) human rights violations aren't in the news anymore. -------------------- "Oh, North Wind, why frighten others? In Nature's family all are brothers. Puff and blow and wheeze and hiss; You can't frighten Shingebiss. Bring your frost and ice and snow; I'm still free to come and go. You can never frighten me, One who never fears is FREE!" -Shingebiss, the mighty duck Posts: 830 | Registered: Tuesday, August 20 2002 07:00 |
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? Man, ? Amazing
Member # 5755
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written Tuesday, February 14 2006 10:50
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Those of us located in prosperous regions of the world have the rare luxury of offering critical commentary on stuff happening in other less nosy (i mean developed) countries. This is not due to superiour intellect, analytic skills, or common sense. It is due to free capital and free time. It is rare to hear Somalians at all, never mind questioning the wisdom of nominating Alito. This of course isn't just pertinent to foreign countries, but within a single country as well. Quite frequently I hear anger/resentment about Ted Kennedy applying his principles and morals against the people of the western states. It just feels rude to be on the receiving end of that treatment. I'll not argue the morality of the Iranian judicial system, which is apparently based on religious law. It does seem consistent though, and has survived over a thousand years. Not a bad record, and I've no knowledge of something substantial changing in the past 100 year to render it obsolete. And yes TM, I agree that 6 million Jews is a bit of a hysterical comparison to make. That was a punishment based on misguided, misanthropic principles. Can anyone today defend eugenics? As a hypothesis it lasted 50 years, caused many millions of deaths, and sparked the continuation of racial hatred in the USA. It is not comparable however. Try to imagine that if the Iranian law is punative, it is only to more strongly enforce the notion that women are prized beyond all, and for a parent/guardian to allow a woman to be in that position was a serious transgression. Their collective decision is to punish the woman in question, one woman, in the hopes that every single person in the country will be reminded that care needs to be taken to protect the women. It works. Rape is not the problem in Islamic countries that it is in the US. It may seem barbaric, but it is effectual. I honestly don't have a problem with it. *this message sponsored by the D. a.* -------------------- quote: Posts: 4114 | Registered: Monday, April 25 2005 07:00 |
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Guardian
Member # 6670
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written Tuesday, February 14 2006 10:53
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From Desert Pl@h quote:Perhaps it's just me, but I don't associate economic policy with foreign affairs. Anyway, I think we all need to be reminded of the idea of Realpolitik. The United States may have invaded Iraq because of the cited ultimatum. They also did so to gain a second foothold in the Middle East. Not that I disagree the need for the war, just the reasons that were cited (having a strong hand in the turbulent Middle East and stopping the Kurdish genocide are good reasons; WMDs are not only a bad reason, but also hypocritical). EDIT: From Jumpin' Salmon quote:I think the original concern of the thread was not the law itself, but the way it was applied. None the women cited in the first post committed rape, yet were executed. -------------------- Just say NO to skribbane! [ Tuesday, February 14, 2006 10:59: Message edited by: Dintiradan ] Posts: 1509 | Registered: Tuesday, January 10 2006 08:00 |