Avernum, Avernum, 1, 2, 3....
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Master
Member # 5977
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written Monday, December 12 2005 07:42
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Okay, that would have been test, test 1, 2, 3... but for this occasion, i chnaged it. I know this has been asked about a million times, but I'm not satisfied. I'm in the ussual dillema of "I can't decide." Its Avernum 1, 2 or 3. i don't want to buy all of them, because of a lack of money. I want just one of them, but I like them all. What are you guys opinions about each of the games? I tried all demo's, I'm replaying them now. In short: I enjoyed Avernum 3 the most, but I'm curious to all endings of all games. What happens with haw-Thorn, what happens with the Vahnatai, what happens with Rentar-Irhno? I know of all of the endings what actually happens, but I want to see for myself, and that's just the problem! How can i decide if all plots interest me! On another note: the BoA scenario competition. Is it only once in so many years, or is it every year? -------------------- Play and rate my scenarios: Where the rivers meet View my upcoming scenario: The Nephil Search: Escape. Give us your drek! Posts: 3029 | Registered: Saturday, June 18 2005 07:00 |
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Law Bringer
Member # 2984
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written Monday, December 12 2005 07:55
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There is one BoA competition that is sponsored by Spiderweb itself, I believe, and there are recurring competitions run by the Lyceum ("Olympia"). I don't know if there is a set time period for these contests. -------------------- Encyclopaedia Ermariana • Forum Archives • Forum Statistics • RSS [Topic / Forum] My Blog • Polaris • I eat novels for breakfast. Polaris is dead, long live Polaris. Look on my works, ye mighty, and despair. Posts: 8752 | Registered: Wednesday, May 14 2003 07:00 |
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Master
Member # 5977
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written Monday, December 12 2005 08:08
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quote:The Spiderweb one was last year, but will it be held again, or was it a one-time thing? Where can I get information about the Lyceum contests? -------------------- Play and rate my scenarios: Where the rivers meet View my upcoming scenario: The Nephil Search: Escape. Give us your drek! Posts: 3029 | Registered: Saturday, June 18 2005 07:00 |
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Law Bringer
Member # 335
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written Monday, December 12 2005 08:41
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A1 and A2 have three endings, but they're not endings like Geneforge's. You can keep playing after winning, so you're really only done after completing all three major quests. The next game assumes that all the quests were completed. (Actually, one final quest in A1 has no impact on the plot of A2 or A3, but the rest matter.) The beginning of A2 gives spoilers for A1 and A3 has two books in Fort Emergence that give synopses of the plots of A1 and A2. The plots aren't especially surprising, though; as soon as you know the vahnatai exist, you've gotten all the real excitement you'll get from the plot. The rest is all in the details that you can only get by playing. —Alorael, whose favorite Avernum is A2. The plot is definitely the best through the demo, and it's still slightly better through the rest of the game. A3 suffers from generic towns and inflated damage, but if you like the engine then go with it. A1 is good, but the lack of a quest list is difficult after playing later games. Posts: 14579 | Registered: Saturday, December 1 2001 08:00 |
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Law Bringer
Member # 6489
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written Monday, December 12 2005 09:59
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quote:I agree with Alorael. Avernum 2 is by far the best of the trilogy. I always got around the lack of a quest list in the first Avernum by writing everything down in a notebook. However, (I guess this doesn't matter to mac users with their 1-button mice) the inability to right-click to look gets annoying after playing the later games. Avernum 3 was good too, but it had a too-big feeling to it. I loved Avernum 2. I think I've played through it 5 times already. EDIT: Woohoo! I'm finally a Journeyman! [ Monday, December 12, 2005 13:42: Message edited by: Tyranicus ] -------------------- "You're drinking liquor because you're thirsty? How nasty is your freaking water?" —Lazarus Spiderweb Chat Room Avernum RP • Summaries • OoC • Roster Shadow Vale - My site, home of the Spiderweb Chat Database, BoA Scenario Database, & the A1 Quest List, among other things. Posts: 1556 | Registered: Sunday, November 20 2005 08:00 |
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Off With Their Heads
Member # 4045
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written Monday, December 12 2005 10:17
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quote:The Spiderweb contest was (as far as we know) a one-time thing. The Lyceum contests are discussed over at Olympia. As for which Avernum to play first, here's my general rule: if you're going to play all three and need one to start with, start with A1 (it's annoying to go backwards). If you're only going to play one and you like a good premise, play A2. If you're only going to play one and you want it to be enormous beyond belief, play A3. -------------------- Arancaytar: Every time you ask people to compare TM and Kel, you endanger the poor, fluffy kittens. Smoo: Get ready to face the walls! Ephesos: In conclusion, yarr. Kelandon's Pink and Pretty Page!!: the authorized location for all things by me The Archive of all released BoE scenarios ever Posts: 7968 | Registered: Saturday, February 28 2004 08:00 |
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Warrior
Member # 6501
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written Monday, December 12 2005 11:00
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If you want the biggest and longest game, play A3; if you want to know more of Avernum´s history, the history of the murderes and about anything that happens before the Vahnatai, play A1; if you want to know more about the Vahnatais, their lands and the crystal souls, play A2. The rest is your decision. :) -------------------- You know, why the Sliths are green - because of their scales. Maybe you know why some slith eyes were once red - ´cause the demons, which led them were red. But why are the eyes of the Slith Lord Followers red? Because they see the remains of their enemies always before the battle begins! Posts: 179 | Registered: Friday, November 25 2005 08:00 |
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E Equals MC What!!!!
Member # 5491
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written Monday, December 12 2005 11:25
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Basically, if scenarios get made, there will be a contest. Next June will probably be the deadline. -------------------- SupaNik: Aran, you're not big enough to threaten Ash. Dammit, even JV had to think twice. Posts: 1861 | Registered: Friday, February 11 2005 08:00 |
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Shock Trooper
Member # 4239
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written Monday, December 12 2005 13:04
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Wait until you have $60 and buy the trilogy. Seriously. Otherwise you'll just be disappointed you haven't played the others and wind up buying them all separately. -------------------- There are two kinds of game players...those who are newbies, and those who were. Posts: 322 | Registered: Monday, April 12 2004 07:00 |
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Lifecrafter
Member # 3171
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written Monday, December 12 2005 18:50
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Get Avernum 2. It's the only one I really enjoyed beating. Avernum 1 would be next, but by the end it was getting a little tedious. With Avernum 3 I nearly died of bordem while getting through it. Posts: 776 | Registered: Friday, July 4 2003 07:00 |
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Law Bringer
Member # 2984
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written Monday, December 12 2005 23:38
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quote:I seem to remember the "Pearl" kind of died because of a lack of scenarios? -------------------- Encyclopaedia Ermariana • Forum Archives • Forum Statistics • RSS [Topic / Forum] My Blog • Polaris • I eat novels for breakfast. Polaris is dead, long live Polaris. Look on my works, ye mighty, and despair. Posts: 8752 | Registered: Wednesday, May 14 2003 07:00 |
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Shock Trooper
Member # 932
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written Tuesday, December 13 2005 00:11
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I own the entire Avernum Trilogy and have not only played them through multiple times, but have done so recently. Avernum 2 is easily the best; Jeff had really gotten his story telling act together by this point, and had some substantial backstory to build upon. Just like with Star Wars IV, V and VI, the middle one is where things are most dire for Avernum, and the most enthralling. Avernum could have easily survived without your interference in Avernum 1 or 3. Avernum 1: In Avernum 1, Adze-Haakai and Grah-Hoth might have caused untold suffering, but Avernum was starting in a position of power, and would have eventually won without your assistance. Avernum 1 starts off slow, and is neither truly linear or open-ended, making it seem to lack direction in my eyes. Don't get me wrong, it's great game by any stretch of the imagination. Avernum 3: In Avernum 3, the Avernites might have been forced to stay underground, and there was always the possiblity of Empire reprisals - they would likely have blamed Avernum for the monster plagues. However, Avernum starts off in a position of power and your intervention is not as vital for the survival of Avernum. (With the possible exception of the Tower of Magi disaster, would it have happened if Avernum was not so distracted with the possibility of gaining freedom on the surface?) The plot is usually recognised as being lackluster and unimaginative, and the world as too... generic. Again, it is a good game, but pales in comparision to Avernum 1. (Which pales in comparision to Avernum 2, go figure.) Avernum 2: Avernum 2 is where your character or party really makes a difference; there is no possibility of Avernum surviving without timely intervention. The plot is strong and directed, makes sense, the situations are familiar without feeling re-hashed, and it is more polished than Avernum 1. The cheapest way to purchase the Avernum Trilogy: For people who have purchased the Exile Trilogy: Buy Avernum 1,2 and 3 as a Trilogy in the November sadness sale. Get the discounts for having previously purchased Exile 1, 2 and 3.For people who have not purchased the Exile Trilogy: Buy Avernum 1,2 and 3 as a Trilogy in the November sadness sale. [ Tuesday, December 13, 2005 00:18: Message edited by: CPeters ] -------------------- Microsoft Patents Ones, Zeroes (March 25, 1998) "Asians are good at Starcraft because they're always squinting, thus they can see things sharply. Remember to always squint in war." ~ Sun-Tzu Posts: 215 | Registered: Sunday, April 7 2002 08:00 |
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Shock Trooper
Member # 1546
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written Tuesday, December 13 2005 00:41
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quote:Last I checked, it was December 13 and the November Sadness sale had officially (and rather logically...) ended. [ Tuesday, December 13, 2005 00:42: Message edited by: kuc ] -------------------- A Sucaran Child is standing here. You say, "hello" The small child looks at Preserver Aldous wide-eyed and awed. Posts: 269 | Registered: Friday, July 19 2002 07:00 |
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Shock Trooper
Member # 932
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written Tuesday, December 13 2005 01:03
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quote:I'm going to suffer for this, but quite frankly, you deserve it. No ****, sherlock. I was pointing out the best case scenario, never expecting that one fair reader lacked the pair of braincells required to put two and two together to get four. Let us take stock of the facts: It is December.The November sadness sale is in November, obviously.Having purchased any of the exile games previously allows you to get a discount on its Avernum counterpart.Therefore, if he wants to save the most money he can, Thralni will wait until next year's sale. If he is impatient, he will purchase it now, buying the trilogy as a trilogy to get the lower price that affords over buying Avernum 1, 2 and 3 seperately. [ Tuesday, December 13, 2005 01:04: Message edited by: CPeters ] -------------------- Microsoft Patents Ones, Zeroes (March 25, 1998) "Asians are good at Starcraft because they're always squinting, thus they can see things sharply. Remember to always squint in war." ~ Sun-Tzu Posts: 215 | Registered: Sunday, April 7 2002 08:00 |
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Shock Trooper
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written Tuesday, December 13 2005 01:16
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Which relies on the assuption that there'll be the same sale next November, and it'll be the same prices, etc. Also relies on A4 not being better than A2 and being the new recommendation. You've assumed a hell of a lot more than I did. He wants to buy one game now. Referring to a potential sale in 11 months time is about as pointless as (how I interpreted it) "wrongly" referring to last months sale which has now ended. No need to act like a complete git about it. Edit: for the record, my opinions fall along with the consensus, A2 >>> A1 > A3. [ Tuesday, December 13, 2005 01:36: Message edited by: kuc ] -------------------- A Sucaran Child is standing here. You say, "hello" The small child looks at Preserver Aldous wide-eyed and awed. Posts: 269 | Registered: Friday, July 19 2002 07:00 |
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Shock Trooper
Member # 932
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written Tuesday, December 13 2005 02:56
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quote:sigh... Why do I feel the sudden need to be as subtle as a sledgehammer? (1) The intent of my original post was to briefly compare and contrast the trilogy, and allow him to make his own decision based off both others' and my oppinions. (2) Thralni asked which of the trilogy was the best, and therefore should purchase, as he lacked the money to buy the lot. I was trying to inform him of the fact that it is cheaper to purchase in bulk, rather than individually. Something that anyone who has purchased toilet paper should know. As Thralni made a point of his money problems, I gave information that is relevant now. It was a simple illustration of the best case scenario. If something changes, then he will base his decision upon those changes. (3) The November sadness sale has been done for at least two years running, or three plus IIRC, and as such it is likely to still be around in 2006. Particularly if believe the "Our yearly November Sadness sale..." blurb that was on their order page last month. (4) Your point about Avernum 4 is irrelevant. Avernum 4 is not one the games he specifically asked about, and is unlikely to be sold together with the trilogy for some time. (See point 2.) Thralni asked about the trilogy, and while I could have mentioned related titles (i.e. Avernum 4) I didn't. Mere speculation that they will eventually be able to be purchased together for less than they are currently (or will be) sold for individually is less than unhelpful. Why? Because Jeff waited until he had a trilogy before he sold them together. Considering that Jeff is somewhat renowned for his unwillingness to change, I would naturally assume that he will stick to selling trilogies. I made a judgement based on both the current price and the more than reasonable assumption that their blurb on the orders page wasn't a snowjob. Get over it. (5) I could also point out that he may wish until the exchange rate is most favourable for his particular currency. Oh wait, its too late, I just did. (6) What is it with people and their disdain for assumptions? Why did you assume that Avernum 4 will sold at all? Jeff could just give it away after all. You made that assumption because if you tried to compensate for every single situation, instead of acting upon a reasonable assumption, you would die from old age. (7) Incidentally, my karma has gone down. Why am I not suprised? Go ahead, vote me down to a one, if you must. Karma makes no difference to the validity of my argument. It acts as little more than a means of helping one to gauge their own, or another's, popularity. (8) I'm not going to say anything else on this, regardless of how you respond. I've fuelled the fire more than enough already, I think. -------------------- Microsoft Patents Ones, Zeroes (March 25, 1998) "Asians are good at Starcraft because they're always squinting, thus they can see things sharply. Remember to always squint in war." ~ Sun-Tzu Posts: 215 | Registered: Sunday, April 7 2002 08:00 |
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...b10010b...
Member # 869
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written Tuesday, December 13 2005 03:24
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CPeters, please calm down. You're not achieving anything constructive by attacking other members. -------------------- The Empire Always Loses: This Time For Sure! Posts: 9973 | Registered: Saturday, March 30 2002 08:00 |
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Off With Their Heads
Member # 4045
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written Tuesday, December 13 2005 07:19
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And the same goes to kuc. For reference, certain sales do happen every year. IIRC, they are in April and November. -------------------- Arancaytar: Every time you ask people to compare TM and Kel, you endanger the poor, fluffy kittens. Smoo: Get ready to face the walls! Ephesos: In conclusion, yarr. Kelandon's Pink and Pretty Page!!: the authorized location for all things by me The Archive of all released BoE scenarios ever Posts: 7968 | Registered: Saturday, February 28 2004 08:00 |
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Law Bringer
Member # 335
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written Tuesday, December 13 2005 11:11
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The November Sadness Sale is definitely annual. The other sale or sales appear sometime on the calendar. It may regularly be in April, but it's not officially tied to April. —Alorael, who gives CPeters credit for pointing out the power balance, which is something he hasn't thought about before. A2 is the game in which Avernum feels like it's on the verge of collapse. A1 involves major threats, but none are immediately obvious and visible, and it seems like Avernum could could exist in the status quo indefinitely. A3 barely involves Avernum at all. Posts: 14579 | Registered: Saturday, December 1 2001 08:00 |
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Law Bringer
Member # 2984
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written Tuesday, December 13 2005 15:47
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In A3, Avernum is a power that is not only stable but expanding - actively sending an exploration mission with the intent to regain surface land eventually. That's the first time where the situation in the game has been sparked directly through Avernum's actions, not through the Empire's. -------------------- Encyclopaedia Ermariana • Forum Archives • Forum Statistics • RSS [Topic / Forum] My Blog • Polaris • I eat novels for breakfast. Polaris is dead, long live Polaris. Look on my works, ye mighty, and despair. Posts: 8752 | Registered: Wednesday, May 14 2003 07:00 |
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Law Bringer
Member # 335
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written Tuesday, December 13 2005 16:03
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Not exactly. Avernum just wants the right to reconnect with the surface. The disasters on the surface are the vahnatai response to the Empire's actions before and during A2. If your party in A3 were a group of surface adventurers from a backwater like southwestern Valorim, the game would be almost entirely unchanged. —Alorael, who doesn't like A3's plot for that reason among others. The surface is an absolutely typical and unexciting fantasy world. Avernum is where things are different and exciting, and Avernum plays little role in A3. Incidentally, the events in Avernum, like the Formello murders, the ToM disaster, and the Cult of the Sacred Item, are all fun and interesting. Posts: 14579 | Registered: Saturday, December 1 2001 08:00 |
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BANNED
Member # 4
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written Tuesday, December 13 2005 16:15
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quote: -------------------- * Posts: 6936 | Registered: Tuesday, September 18 2001 07:00 |
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Law Bringer
Member # 335
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written Tuesday, December 13 2005 19:06
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You hate Spiderweb reflexively, TM. The Cult of the Sacred Item is genuinely funny, and the ToM disaster is at least a meaningful event in Avernum. Only the murders shine by contrast to the rest of the game and for no other reason. —Alorael, who means reflexively as in by reflex and without conscious thought, not as in TM is in fact Spiderweb and hating himself. In case that wasn't clear. Posts: 14579 | Registered: Saturday, December 1 2001 08:00 |