Need a new graphics engine
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Apprentice
Member # 6304
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written Wednesday, September 14 2005 18:09
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Okay, I know this is a underground type game... and I have been reading reviews on spiderwebs games for years through Computer Games magazine. But... it is really time for a engine upgrade!!! There are plenty of low-cost engines out there, that could vastly improve your graphics... and your audience. I hope your next game is going to have better graphics, because there really isn't a excuse to not upgrade the technology. Posts: 4 | Registered: Wednesday, September 14 2005 07:00 |
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Off With Their Heads
Member # 4045
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written Wednesday, September 14 2005 18:13
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Ach, you get about three of the pre-provided standard responses. 1) Jeff does not read these boards. If you want to address Spiderweb's actual employees, e-mail them at their e-mails on the website. 2) Graphics cost money. An engine upgrade would not be too hard — he does this from time to time — but getting original graphics costs a bunch. That said, apparently Avernum 4 is going to have improved graphics, but don't expect much. Gameplay, not graphics, is the primary selling point for SW. 3) Welcome to the boards. Leave your sanity at the door. Don't be a 1-post newbie. -------------------- Arancaytar: Every time you ask people to compare TM and Kel, you endanger the poor, fluffy kittens. Kelandon's Pink and Pretty Page!!: the authorized location for all things by me The Archive of all released BoE scenarios ever Posts: 7968 | Registered: Saturday, February 28 2004 08:00 |
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...b10010b...
Member # 869
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written Wednesday, September 14 2005 18:23
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You forgot to mention that some people (probably including a majority of those on these forums) actively prefer the retro-style graphics. I'm sorry, but for the most part I find polygonal graphics to be just plain ugly, no matter how technically advanced they claim to be. [ Wednesday, September 14, 2005 18:24: Message edited by: Strychnine ] -------------------- My BoE Page Bandwagons are fun! Roots Hunted! Posts: 9973 | Registered: Saturday, March 30 2002 08:00 |
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Law Bringer
Member # 335
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written Wednesday, September 14 2005 19:09
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Snazzier graphics and engines also increase download sizes, and Jeff is adamantly opposed to download bloat. He's still trying to be friendly to the dialup users. —Alorael, who isn't sure Spiderweb would be better off getting out of the retro niche. "Improving your audience" doesn't happen if you have a bigger potential audience but lose out because the competition is also fiercer. Posts: 14579 | Registered: Saturday, December 1 2001 08:00 |
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Law Bringer
Member # 4153
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written Wednesday, September 14 2005 19:40
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Old school graphics with well-executed gameplay are always going to be better than shallow storylines with lots of explosions. After all, it just wouldn't be Spiderweb if it moved to polygonal graphics (god forbid). Give Jeff a break. -------------------- Gamble with Gaea, and she eats your dice. I hate undead. I really, really, really, really hate undead. With a passion. Posts: 4130 | Registered: Friday, March 26 2004 08:00 |
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? Man, ? Amazing
Member # 5755
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written Wednesday, September 14 2005 20:32
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quote:Seems to me that there are many excuses. The biggest excuse is the size of the company. Not many of the larger gaming companies could boast that it only takes 3 people to develop, test, market, and support a game. The nine month turn-around time isn't too shabby either. *this message supported by unsolicited advice-givers anonymous* Posts: 4114 | Registered: Monday, April 25 2005 07:00 |
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Infiltrator
Member # 5806
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written Wednesday, September 14 2005 22:48
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I would hate to see the games of Spiderweb Software become polygonial. The pixels are so beautiful when they are well animated or well-drawn. Just look at my game sprite premade for a future game:  Hail the pixels! Side note: I used only ClarisWork 4 to MacOS 9.1 and Graphic Converter 5.5 to create this sprite. I am still improving it. EDIT: Link to the sprite if it will not load: http://www.freewebs.com/lagooneagle/Sprite1.gif [ Thursday, September 15, 2005 01:49: Message edited by: Eagle, the author soul ] -------------------- So, as the great Groxy, I have come back to be served by goblins. In the "main hall" of the goblin cave was a large totem which resembled very much of... me. Posts: 437 | Registered: Friday, May 13 2005 07:00 |
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Lifecrafter
Member # 3171
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written Wednesday, September 14 2005 23:41
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Eagle - It might just be me but your picture doesn't seem to load. I have to agree that if you can't look past the graphics there is not point being here and playing these games. I know I was heavily opposed to A4 graphics but hell, if it works it works because these graphics arn't exactly brilliant but they mean you pay far more attention to the plot and what's going on than pretty colours. Posts: 776 | Registered: Friday, July 4 2003 07:00 |
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Lifecrafter
Member # 1468
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written Thursday, September 15 2005 05:56
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If you can't look past the graphics, you shouldn't really be playing any game. I feel sorry for anybody who doesn't give a game a chance just because it has bad graphics. -------------------- "We can learn a lot from crayons. Some are short, some are dull, some are sharp, some are tall. Some have funny names and they are all different colors, but they all learn to live in the same box." "Happy is the man that has wisdom and gets discernment. For having wisdom as gain is better than having silver as gain and having wisdom as produce is better than gold itself" Proverbs 3:14-3:15 The horrible part about life is, you'll never get out of it alive. Currently boycotting: AngelFire, GameFAQ's Everybody should go to this site at least once. Posts: 818 | Registered: Tuesday, July 9 2002 07:00 |
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Master
Member # 5977
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written Thursday, September 15 2005 06:07
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quote:I'm sory to say this, but I must agree. Explsions, blood al over to place, limbs lying around... Give me a break, and Jeff. If you really want this 3D graphics, then go buy dungeon siege or something, but don't come here. Avernum 3 graphics are in my opinion the nicest graphics around, these days. -------------------- Thralni's almighty Avernum pages: My webpage, containing scenario's and graphics made by me (And maybe someday the homepage of the almighty chicken gods). Click here for more information on Olga's fortune teller kiosk Olga's fortune teller kiosk has been temporarily closed down, but you can contact the prophet with a PM - Was signed by the prophet of the almighty chicken gods, gods of everything that is a chicken. Work has begun on the Nephilian grammar and vocabulary guide! Posts: 3029 | Registered: Saturday, June 18 2005 07:00 |
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Master
Member # 4614
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written Thursday, September 15 2005 15:03
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Eagle, I still don't get a picture. Anyway, I think ASCII art works quite well as far as graphics. :P -------------------- -ben4808 For those who love to spam: CSM Forums RIFQ Posts: 3360 | Registered: Friday, June 25 2004 07:00 |
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Law Bringer
Member # 2984
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written Thursday, September 15 2005 20:59
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ADOM proves this... -------------------- The Encyclopaedia Ermariana <-- Now a Wiki! "Polaris leers down from the black vault, winking hideously like an insane watching eye which strives to convey some strange message, yet recalls nothing save that it once had a message to convey." --- HP Lovecraft. "I single Aran out due to his nasty temperament, and his superior intellect." --- SupaNik Posts: 8752 | Registered: Wednesday, May 14 2003 07:00 |
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Master
Member # 1046
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written Thursday, September 15 2005 21:19
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Dungeon Siege 2 actually seems half decent. And hard enough that I can't beat it with a solo character like in DS1. But yea, since Jeff is really the only person developing the games, having modern eye candy in Spidweb games is a bit of a problem. -------------------- Polaris - Weather balloons, ninjas, and your big daddy Wise Man. What more could you want? Undead Theories - Don't Ask, Don't Tell Posts: 3323 | Registered: Thursday, April 25 2002 07:00 |
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Apprentice
Member # 6304
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written Sunday, September 18 2005 17:38
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Haha, I shouldn't be playing games because I like games with graphics? Well, I guess you should tell that to all the game reviewers out there... Because almost all magazines and websites, include 'graphics' in their review criteria. I'm sorry, if you all disagree with me... But if the game doesn't have pretty graphics, I might as well play a MUD or read a book. I enjoy games like Arcanum, but didn't really care for Neverwinter Nights. So going 3D isn't necessary, but an improvement would be nice eventually. No offense to the developers or the fans, but thats just my opinion. Posts: 4 | Registered: Wednesday, September 14 2005 07:00 |
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Law Bringer
Member # 4153
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written Sunday, September 18 2005 18:08
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As much as we try to welcome everyone who shows up here, just remember that most of us strongly disagree with you... Game reviewers? Who says they're an authority? Just because they happen to treasure "good graphics," a rather subjective term to begin with, doesn't mean that they're essential. -------------------- Gamble with Gaea, and she eats your dice. I hate undead. I really, really, really, really hate undead. With a passion. Posts: 4130 | Registered: Friday, March 26 2004 08:00 |
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Master
Member # 1046
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written Sunday, September 18 2005 18:14
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I never listen to game reviewers, because most of them tend to also be noobs at the games they review. -------------------- Polaris - Weather balloons, ninjas, and your big daddy Wise Man. What more could you want? Undead Theories - Don't Ask, Don't Tell Posts: 3323 | Registered: Thursday, April 25 2002 07:00 |
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Lifecrafter
Member # 3171
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written Sunday, September 18 2005 21:49
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Powerman - One post of that description (or possibly two as I haven't seen the other one) seems to be enough to earn you a 1 star rating. I love this communtity. [ Sunday, September 18, 2005 21:50: Message edited by: Kingy ] Posts: 776 | Registered: Friday, July 4 2003 07:00 |
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Law Bringer
Member # 2984
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written Sunday, September 18 2005 23:10
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quote:I frequently do. It's a refreshing experience. :P -------------------- The Encyclopaedia Ermariana <-- Now a Wiki! "Polaris leers down from the black vault, winking hideously like an insane watching eye which strives to convey some strange message, yet recalls nothing save that it once had a message to convey." --- HP Lovecraft. "I single Aran out due to his nasty temperament, and his superior intellect." --- SupaNik Posts: 8752 | Registered: Wednesday, May 14 2003 07:00 |
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Apprentice
Member # 6304
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written Sunday, September 18 2005 23:10
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<Kingy> Mmmm...kay, was that suppose to be a insult? If you guys don't like graphics, thats your deal. I was just simply stating that I enjoy them along with the storyline, and would like to see better graphics in Spiderweb Software games. Maybe, I should have read that the forums before posting... So I could have known, that everyone here likes the graphics the way they are now. And, while some reviewers aren't very qualified, most are... Thats why Spiderweb games get fair reviews in magazines. And they don't review games based on what a small percentage of gamers like, they rate on what the majority enjoy. Oh yeah, it is still pretty impressive what a small team of 3 can do ;) [ Sunday, September 18, 2005 23:12: Message edited by: powerman ] Posts: 4 | Registered: Wednesday, September 14 2005 07:00 |
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E Equals MC What!!!!
Member # 5491
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written Sunday, September 18 2005 23:12
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quote:Good to know. But knowing Jeff, I suspect that he'll ignore the magazines and websites telling him to improve his graphics, and listen to his bank statement telling him that what he's doing works. -------------------- Sex is easier than love. Posts: 1861 | Registered: Friday, February 11 2005 08:00 |
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Law Bringer
Member # 2984
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written Monday, September 19 2005 02:05
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Unfortunately, when it comes to suggestions, he not only pretty much ignores the magazines, but the fanbase as well. At least he's consistent. :rolleyes: -------------------- The Encyclopaedia Ermariana <-- Now a Wiki! "Polaris leers down from the black vault, winking hideously like an insane watching eye which strives to convey some strange message, yet recalls nothing save that it once had a message to convey." --- HP Lovecraft. "I single Aran out due to his nasty temperament, and his superior intellect." --- SupaNik Posts: 8752 | Registered: Wednesday, May 14 2003 07:00 |
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Lifecrafter
Member # 1468
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written Monday, September 19 2005 06:37
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I'm not saying you should hate good graphics. I'm saying the focus should be on gameplay, not graphics. Bad graphics + Good Gameplay = Good Game Good Graphics + Bad Gameplay = Bad Game Good Graphics + Good Gameplay = Good Game You see what I'm getting at here? It doesn't matter what the graphics look like, as long as the gameplay is good. -------------------- "We can learn a lot from crayons. Some are short, some are dull, some are sharp, some are tall. Some have funny names and they are all different colors, but they all learn to live in the same box." "Happy is the man that has wisdom and gets discernment. For having wisdom as gain is better than having silver as gain and having wisdom as produce is better than gold itself" Proverbs 3:14-3:15 The horrible part about life is, you'll never get out of it alive. Currently boycotting: AngelFire, GameFAQ's Everybody should go to this site at least once. Posts: 818 | Registered: Tuesday, July 9 2002 07:00 |
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Law Bringer
Member # 335
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written Monday, September 19 2005 07:21
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quote:And Spiderweb is a team of one with two minor assistants, actually. As a team of one, Jeff can't and doesn't try to compete with major game producing outfits. He isn't writing for the majority. He's making his games for his small niche percentage, and as I said before, trying to get out of that niche isn't necessarily going to help him. It certainly isn't going to please an apparently large portion of his current fanbase. —Alorael, who actually enjoys reading books and playing text-based games. Next you're going to be claiming that Zork isn't a good game, and then there will be problems. Posts: 14579 | Registered: Saturday, December 1 2001 08:00 |
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Apprentice
Member # 6320
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written Monday, September 19 2005 10:30
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Hmm sorry for my first post sounding like this, but who actually said polygonal gfx? Hell you can do a lot more with simple 2D sprites. I mean I'm not a spriter by any means, and I can produce sprites of the same quality as the ones used in these games given a bit of time. My suggestion is to use 2D sprites with a higher resolution. Maybe 800x600, with the gfx actually taking up most of the screen. I'm not a game developer, nor a coder/spriter whatever, and have little knowledge of the avalible engines out there, but a bit of an upgrade would not hurt. Maybe something around 32x32 or 32x48 sprites perhaps. Around the level of the RM95/98 stuff. Also simple stuff like static animations would open the game up to a far broader audience, which equates to more income. Honestly I'm not a fan of gfx in general, I play muds, rogue-likes, and the ocasional game of Zork, but I'd very much like to see the Exile games continued with Snes stlye graphics, and would buy it in an instant. Also I didn't really like the Avernum or Geneforce games. I hated the hex movement system, and the storlines were just not as solid if ya ask me. My favorite by far was Exile 3. Just a few little tweeks here and there would make the gameplay much more immersive. These games are not muds or rogue-likes, and have a set storyline, not one you make for yourselves. So, a bit of a gfx boost could not hurt, though if it was turned into some jumble of polygonal filth I'd shoot someone. Just a bit of polish. Seeing as I need to rap this up, and have been rambling far too much, I'd like to close this by saying..... <============}:x:x:O Long Live Spiderweb Software O:x:x:{============> [ Monday, September 19, 2005 10:37: Message edited by: Jhaerik ] Posts: 1 | Registered: Monday, September 19 2005 07:00 |
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Shake Before Using
Member # 75
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written Monday, September 19 2005 10:35
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Honestly, I still like the Exile graphics better than the Avernum ones. >_> Posts: 3234 | Registered: Thursday, October 4 2001 07:00 |
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