The one calculator

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Author	Topic: The one calculator
Sturg Master Member # 4614	written Wednesday, September 7 2005 16:49 Profile Homepage #50 I wonder if you could come up with a random number generator based on the digits of pi. -------------------- -ben4808 For those who love to spam: CSM Forums RIFQ Posts: 3360 \| Registered: Friday, June 25 2004 07:00
Thuryl ...b10010b... Member # 869	written Wednesday, September 7 2005 16:52 Profile Homepage #51 It wouldn't be a very good source of randomness. If you use the digits of pi in order, they're obviously going to be predictable. So you have to use some random method for picking digits, in which case you can just use that as your randomiser and skip the step involving pi. -------------------- My BoE Page Bandwagons are fun! Roots Hunted! Posts: 9973 \| Registered: Saturday, March 30 2002 08:00
Or else o'erleap. Law Bringer Member # 335	written Wednesday, September 7 2005 19:03 Profile Homepage #52 Actually, that's a good question. Since all pseudorandom number generators are just a long string of numbers and become predictable if the current location is known, so all presumably depend on some form of random seeding. Pi has a few other problems, I think. The fact that it has to be calculated, not arbitrarily declared, is one of them. While pi is irrational, I'm not sure if anyone has proved, or even can prove, that it has random and even distribution. —Alorael, who would rather stick to the tried and true ways of generating "random" numbers. That's not the kind of thing you want to trust to dumb luck. Posts: 14579 \| Registered: Saturday, December 1 2001 08:00
Arancaytar Law Bringer Member # 2984	written Wednesday, September 7 2005 22:38 Profile Homepage #53 http://www.random.org/. Very useful if you need anything random - a string, a hex code, a number in binary, even a bitmap. [ Wednesday, September 07, 2005 22:40: Message edited by: Arancaytar ] -------------------- The Encyclopaedia Ermariana <-- Now a Wiki! "Polaris leers down from the black vault, winking hideously like an insane watching eye which strives to convey some strange message, yet recalls nothing save that it once had a message to convey." --- HP Lovecraft. "I single Aran out due to his nasty temperament, and his superior intellect." --- SupaNik Posts: 8752 \| Registered: Wednesday, May 14 2003 07:00
Thuryl ...b10010b... Member # 869	written Wednesday, September 7 2005 23:41 Profile Homepage #54 That bitmap doesn't look very random. -------------------- My BoE Page Bandwagons are fun! Roots Hunted! Posts: 9973 \| Registered: Saturday, March 30 2002 08:00
Arancaytar Law Bringer Member # 2984	written Thursday, September 8 2005 02:33 Profile Homepage #55 quote: Originally written by Laudanum: That bitmap doesn't look very random. In what way does it look non-random? It's generated by the same process as the other random numbers on the site, apparently from atmospheric noise. They have an explanation page somewhere. -------------------- The Encyclopaedia Ermariana <-- Now a Wiki! "Polaris leers down from the black vault, winking hideously like an insane watching eye which strives to convey some strange message, yet recalls nothing save that it once had a message to convey." --- HP Lovecraft. "I single Aran out due to his nasty temperament, and his superior intellect." --- SupaNik Posts: 8752 \| Registered: Wednesday, May 14 2003 07:00
Thuryl ...b10010b... Member # 869	written Thursday, September 8 2005 04:07 Profile Homepage #56 At the time I made that post, the right half of the image was white with a couple of regularly-spaced black bands, while the left half looked relatively random. I reloaded the image a couple of times with similar results. It's not happening at the moment, though. I suspect it's not actually the fault of the random bitmap generator, but rather because my browser sucks at displaying images. -------------------- My BoE Page Bandwagons are fun! Roots Hunted! Posts: 9973 \| Registered: Saturday, March 30 2002 08:00
Arancaytar Law Bringer Member # 2984	written Thursday, September 8 2005 04:34 Profile Homepage #57 Another explanation would be that entropy has briefly reversed itself. Allegedly, it's not impossible, just infinitely improbable... :P Hey! When I reloaded this page I saw the face of the Virgin Mary appear in that bitmap! :eek: -------------------- The Encyclopaedia Ermariana <-- Now a Wiki! "Polaris leers down from the black vault, winking hideously like an insane watching eye which strives to convey some strange message, yet recalls nothing save that it once had a message to convey." --- HP Lovecraft. "I single Aran out due to his nasty temperament, and his superior intellect." --- SupaNik Posts: 8752 \| Registered: Wednesday, May 14 2003 07:00
Sturg Master Member # 4614	written Thursday, September 8 2005 17:00 Profile Homepage #58 quote: Originally written by Laudanum: It wouldn't be a very good source of randomness. If you use the digits of pi in order, they're obviously going to be predictable. So you have to use some random method for picking digits, in which case you can just use that as your randomiser and skip the step involving pi. Well, for the purpose of a simple calculator program, pi will do quite nicely. Who do you think will be able to pick up on that if you don't tell them. And pi has also shown to have an almost perfectly random distribution of all 10 digits, so it is a really good number for that. I s'pose the square root of 2 would work too. -------------------- -ben4808 For those who love to spam: CSM Forums RIFQ Posts: 3360 \| Registered: Friday, June 25 2004 07:00
Arancaytar Law Bringer Member # 2984	written Thursday, September 8 2005 21:42 Profile Homepage #59 quote: Originally written by Benny Boy: And pi has also shown to have an almost perfectly random distribution of all 10 digits How many digits of Pi have been calculated to show this? Is it possible to make a prediction for the rest of Pi using only these digits? -------------------- The Encyclopaedia Ermariana <-- Now a Wiki! "Polaris leers down from the black vault, winking hideously like an insane watching eye which strives to convey some strange message, yet recalls nothing save that it once had a message to convey." --- HP Lovecraft. "I single Aran out due to his nasty temperament, and his superior intellect." --- SupaNik Posts: 8752 \| Registered: Wednesday, May 14 2003 07:00
Nikki. Shaper Member # 3442	written Friday, September 9 2005 04:57 Profile Homepage #60 quote: Originally written by Arancaytar: Hey! When I reloaded this page I saw the face of the Virgin Mary appear in that bitmap! :eek: You may jest, but being a mathematician I challenge you to work out the actual odds of that happening. As for the bitmap, the first one looked random, but the second one looked rather uniform (on the left side). -------------------- "I am a living sign..." Thus endeth this post. Posts: 2864 \| Registered: Monday, September 8 2003 07:00
Sturg Master Member # 4614	written Friday, September 9 2005 14:11 Profile Homepage #61 quote: Originally written by Arancaytar: quote: Originally written by Benny Boy: And pi has also shown to have an almost perfectly random distribution of all 10 digits How many digits of Pi have been calculated to show this? Is it possible to make a prediction for the rest of Pi using only these digits? A few million if I remember right. That should be enough to start over again once its done and not me noticed much. -------------------- -ben4808 For those who love to spam: CSM Forums RIFQ Posts: 3360 \| Registered: Friday, June 25 2004 07:00
Eldibs Lifecrafter Member # 1468	written Friday, September 9 2005 15:22 Profile Homepage #62 I remember it being something like 3 billion places -------------------- "We can learn a lot from crayons. Some are short, some are dull, some are sharp, some are tall. Some have funny names and they are all different colors, but they all learn to live in the same box." "Happy is the man that has wisdom and gets discernment. For having wisdom as gain is better than having silver as gain and having wisdom as produce is better than gold itself" Proverbs 3:14-3:15 The horrible part about life is, you'll never get out of it alive. Currently boycotting: AngelFire, GameFAQ's Everybody should go to this site at least once. Posts: 818 \| Registered: Tuesday, July 9 2002 07:00
Arancaytar Law Bringer Member # 2984	written Saturday, September 10 2005 00:44 Profile Homepage #63 quote: Originally written by SupaNik: quote: Originally written by Arancaytar: Hey! When I reloaded this page I saw the face of the Virgin Mary appear in that bitmap! :eek: You may jest, but being a mathematician I challenge you to work out the actual odds of that happening. As for the bitmap, the first one looked random, but the second one looked rather uniform (on the left side). Given the immensely diverse number of patterns one could reasonably recognize as a face, and the even larger number of patterns a superstitious miracle-adherent is ready to declare a face, that's pretty impossible. However, it is possible to calculate the exact odds of one certain picture appearing. 1 : 2 ^ (6464) = 1 : 2^4096 [ Saturday, September 10, 2005 00:45: Message edited by: Arancaytar ] -------------------- The Encyclopaedia Ermariana <-- Now a Wiki! "Polaris leers down from the black vault, winking hideously like an insane watching eye which strives to convey some strange message, yet recalls nothing save that it once had a message to convey." --- HP Lovecraft. "I single Aran out due to his nasty temperament, and his superior intellect." --- SupaNik Posts: 8752* \| Registered: Wednesday, May 14 2003 07:00
Sturg Master Member # 4614	written Saturday, September 10 2005 13:59 Profile Homepage #64 quote: Originally written by Eldibs: I remember it being something like 3 billion places Pi itself has been calculated to over 1 trillion places. -------------------- -ben4808 For those who love to spam: CSM Forums RIFQ Posts: 3360 \| Registered: Friday, June 25 2004 07:00
Or else o'erleap. Law Bringer Member # 335	written Saturday, September 10 2005 19:23 Profile Homepage #65 With a modern computer processor generating a large number of "random" numbers as fast as it can, a trillion digits will last significantly less than an hour. That's a definite repetition problem. —Alrael, who doesn't see how that would work better on a calculator. Yes, the processor is much slower, so you go through digits slower, but no calculators have all of pi stored. Most only store around 15 digits. That kind of "random" very quickly gets noticed. Posts: 14579 \| Registered: Saturday, December 1 2001 08:00
Desert Pl@h Lifecrafter Member # 1768	written Saturday, September 10 2005 21:16 Profile #66 Mmmmm…pi. Sounds good right now. I'm with Sullust, Casios are for learners and scholars. And cool people, like me. -------------------- "Oh, North Wind, why frighten others? In Nature's family all are brothers. Puff and blow and wheeze and hiss; You can't frighten Shingebiss. Bring your frost and ice and snow; I'm still free to come and go. You can never frighten me, One who never fears is FREE!" -Shingebiss, the mighty duck Posts: 830 \| Registered: Tuesday, August 20 2002 07:00
Sturg Master Member # 4614	written Sunday, September 11 2005 13:42 Profile Homepage #67 But like I said, this is just a simple calculator program, not the next new big project in programming. I'll bet even 15 digits would fool some people for a while. :P But anyway, if that's not good, you could use the square root of two, which can be calculated on the fly. -------------------- -ben4808 For those who love to spam: CSM Forums RIFQ Posts: 3360 \| Registered: Friday, June 25 2004 07:00
Lt. Sullust Shaper Member # 32	written Sunday, September 11 2005 13:57 Profile #68 Sometimes random things don't look as random as they actually are, that is the beauty of it... -------------------- Lt. Sullust Cogito Ergo Sum Polaris Posts: 2462 \| Registered: Wednesday, October 3 2001 07:00
Sir David Fire! Fire! Fire! Fire! Member # 919	written Sunday, September 11 2005 18:13 Profile #69 quote: Originally written by Jeros: I bet a lot of people who get bored in classes probably do the same thing with their graphing calculators as well. I'm not the only one that does it, am I? Are you kidding? Anyone who takes a math course at my school and doesn't do that is in a definite minority. Phoenix kept me entertained for hours. Falldown wasn't bad, either. Never got the hang of those FastTunnel-esque games, though. -------------------- And though the musicians would die, the music would live on in the imaginations of all who heard it. -The Last Pendragon Polaris = joy. In case of emergency, break glass. Posts: 3351 \| Registered: Saturday, April 6 2002 08:00
Lt. Sullust Shaper Member # 32	written Sunday, September 11 2005 18:22 Profile #70 My casio couldn't play games...oh well... :( -------------------- Lt. Sullust Cogito Ergo Sum Polaris Posts: 2462 \| Registered: Wednesday, October 3 2001 07:00
Desert Pl@h Lifecrafter Member # 1768	written Sunday, September 11 2005 19:04 Profile #71 That's a good thing, it helps you learn. raises fist in the air with a bowed head -------------------- "Oh, North Wind, why frighten others? In Nature's family all are brothers. Puff and blow and wheeze and hiss; You can't frighten Shingebiss. Bring your frost and ice and snow; I'm still free to come and go. You can never frighten me, One who never fears is FREE!" -Shingebiss, the mighty duck Posts: 830 \| Registered: Tuesday, August 20 2002 07:00
Arancaytar Law Bringer Member # 2984	written Sunday, September 11 2005 21:03 Profile Homepage #72 quote: Originally written by Lady Davida: quote: Originally written by Jeros: I bet a lot of people who get bored in classes probably do the same thing with their graphing calculators as well. I'm not the only one that does it, am I? Are you kidding? Anyone who takes a math course at my school and doesn't do that is in a definite minority. Phoenix kept me entertained for hours. Falldown wasn't bad, either. Never got the hang of those FastTunnel-esque games, though. I spent most of the period bent over my calculator too, but I was usually trying to write programs for trigonometric formulas or statistics/probability stuff. Hey, it kept me occupied! :) -------------------- The Encyclopaedia Ermariana <-- Now a Wiki! "Polaris leers down from the black vault, winking hideously like an insane watching eye which strives to convey some strange message, yet recalls nothing save that it once had a message to convey." --- HP Lovecraft. "I single Aran out due to his nasty temperament, and his superior intellect." --- SupaNik Posts: 8752 \| Registered: Wednesday, May 14 2003 07:00
Thralni Master Member # 5977	written Monday, September 12 2005 06:11 Profile Homepage #73 I just managed to make a program that calculates (directly translated from Dutch) The series of Fabernatchi. Doe anybody know it? or should I explain it? -------------------- Thralni's almighty Avernum pages: My webpage, containing scenario's and graphics made by me (And maybe someday the homepage of the almighty chicken gods). Click here for more information on Olga's fortune teller kiosk Olga's fortune teller kiosk has been temporarily closed down, but you can contact the prophet with a PM - Was signed by the prophet of the almighty chicken gods, gods of everything that is a chicken. Work has begun on the Nephilian grammar and vocabulary guide! Posts: 3029 \| Registered: Saturday, June 18 2005 07:00
Lt. Sullust Shaper Member # 32	written Monday, September 12 2005 06:33 Profile #74 You mean Fibonacci. F(0) = 0 F(1) = 1 F(n) = F(n-1) + F(n-2) I don't think it's all that difficult to program. The only difference perhaps is whether you choose to have F(0) = 0 or 1... -------------------- Lt. Sullust Cogito Ergo Sum Polaris Posts: 2462 \| Registered: Wednesday, October 3 2001 07:00