Your Favorite Source of Energy
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| Author | Topic: Your Favorite Source of Energy |
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Agent
Member # 2210
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written Tuesday, August 23 2005 11:28
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Which energy do you want to live with when gas runs out? Poll Information This poll contains 10 question(s). 38 user(s) have voted. You may not view the results of this poll without voting. function launch_voter () { launch_window("http://www.ironycentral.com/cgi-bin/ubb/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=poll;d=vote;pollid=nfvKgClVCVkT"); return true; } // end launch_voter function launch_viewer () { launch_window("http://www.ironycentral.com/cgi-bin/ubb/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=poll;d=view;pollid=nfvKgClVCVkT"); return true; } // end launch_viewer function launch_window (url) { preview = window.open( url, "preview", "width=550,height=300,toolbar=no,location=no,directories=no,status,menubar=no,scrollbars,resizable,copyhistory=no" ); window.preview.focus(); return preview; } // end launch_window   -------------------- Wasting your time and mine looking for a good laugh. Star Bright, Star Light, Oh I Wish I May, I Wish Might, Wish For One Star Tonight. Posts: 1084 | Registered: Thursday, November 7 2002 08:00 |
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Infiltrator
Member # 2940
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written Tuesday, August 23 2005 11:57
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Yes, there will be a crisis, worse than the Asian one. We will all probably live to see that. -------------------- "I don't want to achieve immortality through my work, I want to achieve it through not dying." Posts: 469 | Registered: Thursday, May 1 2003 07:00 |
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Master
Member # 4614
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written Tuesday, August 23 2005 12:07
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That's quite a poll. I think this in the future, or at least in the near future or immediately after our fossil fuels are depleted, nuclear power will take over as the most viable. Things like wind and solar generators are expensive and don't produce a constant or large volume of electricity. Anything that requires burning realeases greenhouse gases, which some people view as unacceptible. Nuclear power produces toxic wastes, but by that time we should be able to load in all into a space shuttle and fling it at the sun. ;) -------------------- -ben4808 For those who love to spam: CSM Forums RIFQ Posts: 3360 | Registered: Friday, June 25 2004 07:00 |
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Lifecrafter
Member # 1468
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written Tuesday, August 23 2005 12:15
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why would you waste time and energy flinging it into the sun? Why not just give it a little push away from earth, and let it float out into deep space. -------------------- "We can learn a lot from crayons. Some are short, some are dull, some are sharp, some are tall. Some have funny names and they are all different colors, but they all learn to live in the same box." "Happy is the man that has wisdom and gets discernment. For having wisdom as gain is better than having silver as gain and having wisdom as produce is better than gold itself" Proverbs 3:14-3:15 The horrible part about life is, you'll never get out of it alive. Currently boycotting: AngelFire, GameFAQ's Everybody should go to this site at least once. Posts: 818 | Registered: Tuesday, July 9 2002 07:00 |
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? Man, ? Amazing
Member # 5755
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written Tuesday, August 23 2005 12:37
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Too bad you left out hydropower. It is fun dodging the turbines as I make my way upstream to the spawning beds. *this message sponsored by the bpa and tva* Posts: 4114 | Registered: Monday, April 25 2005 07:00 |
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Shock Trooper
Member # 3368
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written Tuesday, August 23 2005 12:42
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Who's read the National Geographic on alternative energy? I read it and thought it was very interesting. [ Tuesday, August 23, 2005 12:44: Message edited by: Bender Bending Rodriguez ] -------------------- "Like most of life's problems, this one can be solved with bending" Posts: 287 | Registered: Tuesday, August 19 2003 07:00 |
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Warrior
Member # 3351
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written Tuesday, August 23 2005 12:52
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quote:Oil has a number of use, I doubt only one source of energy could be used to replace it. [ Tuesday, August 23, 2005 12:54: Message edited by: So Incredibly Sad ] -------------------- /Seawinds are calling Posts: 187 | Registered: Thursday, August 14 2003 07:00 |
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Nuke and Pave
Member # 24
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written Tuesday, August 23 2005 13:04
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When you say "hydrogen power" do you mean hydro-electric plants (dams across rivers), or hydrogen fuel cells? If you are talking about hydrogen fuel, it's not a source of energy. It might be a good method for transporting electricity, but you spend more energy to make the hydrogen, than you get from burning it. So you'd still have to figure out how you'll be getting your energy for making hydrogen. -------------------- Be careful with a word, as you would with a sword, For it too has the power to kill. However well placed word, unlike a well placed sword, Can also have the power to heal. Posts: 2649 | Registered: Wednesday, October 3 2001 07:00 |
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Law Bringer
Member # 2984
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written Tuesday, August 23 2005 14:01
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The question "Which one will waste the most cash" is really a stupid question and has no place in the test. -------------------- The Encyclopaedia Ermariana <-- Now a Wiki! "Polaris leers down from the black vault, winking hideously like an insane watching eye which strives to convey some strange message, yet recalls nothing save that it once had a message to convey." --- HP Lovecraft. "I single Aran out due to his nasty temperament, and his superior intellect." --- SupaNik Posts: 8752 | Registered: Wednesday, May 14 2003 07:00 |
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Law Bringer
Member # 335
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written Tuesday, August 23 2005 16:07
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Since nuclear energy is the one that really is ready to go right this instant with only construction costs, I'll back it. The waste definitely has its problem, but it beats a massive economic collapse from lack of fossil fuels. Heck, it beats funding the worst regimes in the world to support our economy, too. —Alorael, who will decide which future power supply to put his faith in when one looks good on more than paper and isolated tests. Biodiesel has promise, although it also may cause pollution problems. Posts: 14579 | Registered: Saturday, December 1 2001 08:00 |
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E Equals MC What!!!!
Member # 5491
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written Tuesday, August 23 2005 18:14
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Go the nukes. -------------------- Sex is easier than love. Posts: 1861 | Registered: Friday, February 11 2005 08:00 |
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Infiltrator
Member # 5576
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written Tuesday, August 23 2005 19:55
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I am also in favor of nuclear plants; fission ones work now and fusion ones are a reasonable possibility within the near future; my dad was working on a project to design and build a fusion reactor a number of years ago (about 20 I think), and if government funding hadn't been cut, they would have built reactors of several sizes by now (If, of course, the project had followed the general outline of its schedule). As it is there are a number of fusion reactors worldwide which are getting closer to reaching a consistent positive net power output. The poll question on which power sources will attract environmentalists is an interesting one; I have heard that some environmentalists are opposed to tidal and wind power ideas, which is not something that I would immediately have expected. -------------------- Überraschung des Dosenöffners! Posts: 627 | Registered: Monday, March 7 2005 08:00 |
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Infiltrator
Member # 4248
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written Tuesday, August 23 2005 20:11
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I'll go for nuclear also. Geothermal and solar power could prove viable in the future, but right now nuclear power is the only one ready for the task. -------------------- Somebody PLEASE turn the heat on. Posts: 617 | Registered: Tuesday, April 13 2004 07:00 |
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Fire! Fire! Fire! Fire!
Member # 919
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written Tuesday, August 23 2005 20:49
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I'm a big fan of wind power, no pun intended. Maybe it's a utopian idea, but the little research I've done has revealed far greater pros than cons, and even if it's only a supplementary source, I see no reason not to develop and expand on it. I also like the idea of solar power, at least for home use. I have a friend whose home was powered by the sun for years until a panel broke and his family deemed it too expensive and difficult to fix. With increased production and availability, it seems like such problems would be lessened to a point where great numbers of suburban and rural homes, especially, could harness the energy of the sun and reduce the strain on other energy sources. Alright, fine, I'll admit it, the pun was intended... -------------------- And though the musicians would die, the music would live on in the imaginations of all who heard it. -The Last Pendragon Polaris = joy. In case of emergency, break glass. Posts: 3351 | Registered: Saturday, April 6 2002 08:00 |
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Mongolian Barbeque
Member # 1528
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written Tuesday, August 23 2005 20:54
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Solar and wind power is nice, but very much dependent on local climate and weather. I live in the Mojave Desert, where there are solar panels all over the place. The local community college just finished building their own field of them, and are now entirely running on it and even selling some excess to the town. There are also some nice wind generators in a couple of windy mountain passes nearby. Great stuff. Trouble is these kinds of power aren't really viable everywhere, certainly not in the quantities really needed. That means probably more nuclear power plants. I'm not too keen on them—having to bury the leftovers in leaden subterranean vaults out in the Mojave Desert isn't my idea of a good long-term solution. I don't know much about these biomass whatever things. I may have to find a copy of this National Geographic that everyone's talking about. -------------------- The A.E. van Vogt Information Site My Tribute to the Greatest Writer of the Science Fiction Golden Age Posts: 907 | Registered: Monday, July 15 2002 07:00 |
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Agent
Member # 1558
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written Tuesday, August 23 2005 21:00
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Maybe wind and solar could be used now - until fusion plants come along, then you won't need more fission plants and their excess waste. EDIT: What sort of limits are there on the transport of energy? eg: Would it be possible to stack the Mojave desert full of solar panels to contribute to the power supply of NYC? [ Tuesday, August 23, 2005 21:02: Message edited by: stranger ] -------------------- I'm tired of the strain and the pain ___ ___ ___ I feel the same, I feel nothing Nothing is important to me ___ ___ ___ ___ __ And nobody nowhere understands anything About me and all my dreams lost at sea ___ __ But we’re not the same, we’re different tonight We’ll make things right, we’ll feel it all tonight _ The indescribable moments of your life tonight The impossible is possible tonight ___ ____ ___ Believe in me as I believe in you, tonight Go All Blacks xtraMSN Rugby _ MuggleNet Posts: 1112 | Registered: Friday, July 19 2002 07:00 |
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? Man, ? Amazing
Member # 5755
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written Tuesday, August 23 2005 21:12
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Why is there this fascination with having one solution? It seems that placing energy converters in all the appropriate places could go a long way to solving some long-term energy concerns. It may be that up front costs are higher, but our current solutions have astronomically high long-term costs. I would be in favor of tax credits to companies developing geo/wind/solar/tidal solutions that have long-term viability and are simple. None of this junk that requires a PhD to just read the instruction manual. I want a mechanic to be able to look at it, understand it, and fix it without having to call in the SWAT repair team. I'm going to be putting solar panels on my barn in order to reduce my dependence on outside power for things like running my well pump, and I want to be able to "engineer it" myself if it ever acts up. I have many different sized hammers, and I think they all have the potential to be useful here. If I had the right terrain I might try wind power, but the trees block much of the wind and I don't want a tower that is 120' high. Yes, the trees are over 100' tall. I may be ignorant of many things, but since no one has stepped forward with numbers showing that many small powerplants are not viable as an alternative to massive powerplants, I will continue to disagree with that notion. Also, it is much less of a big deal if a 30kilowatt plant goes offline compared to a 3000megawatt plant. *this message sponsored by the rant* Posts: 4114 | Registered: Monday, April 25 2005 07:00 |
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Agent
Member # 1558
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written Tuesday, August 23 2005 21:24
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Well, wouldn't a power plant be a system which would seriously benefit from efficiencies of scale? Maybe this isn't exactly the right term to use, but I mean very significant effeciency increases compared to many small, separate things like you mentioned. [ Tuesday, August 23, 2005 21:26: Message edited by: stranger ] -------------------- I'm tired of the strain and the pain ___ ___ ___ I feel the same, I feel nothing Nothing is important to me ___ ___ ___ ___ __ And nobody nowhere understands anything About me and all my dreams lost at sea ___ __ But we’re not the same, we’re different tonight We’ll make things right, we’ll feel it all tonight _ The indescribable moments of your life tonight The impossible is possible tonight ___ ____ ___ Believe in me as I believe in you, tonight Go All Blacks xtraMSN Rugby _ MuggleNet Posts: 1112 | Registered: Friday, July 19 2002 07:00 |
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Nuke and Pave
Member # 24
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written Tuesday, August 23 2005 21:25
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Wind and solar power would probably work best in combination with hydrogen fuel cells: Use wind or sun to turn water into hydrogen, then transport hydrogen and burn it somewhere else. As things are now, wind and sun are too unreliable in most area to depend on them completely. Going to wind power would be an interesting reversal. Wind power was used for centuries in windmills. So it looks like after a century of fossil fuels, we'll be going back to older sources of energy. EDIT: Missed several posts. Whether there are economies of scale in power production depends on the method. Solar power is produced 1 panel at a time, so you can put panels on every roof. On the other extreme, fusion reactors have to be extremely powerful before the energy you get out of it becomes higher than the energy used to maintain the reaction. [ Tuesday, August 23, 2005 21:30: Message edited by: Zeviz ] -------------------- Be careful with a word, as you would with a sword, For it too has the power to kill. However well placed word, unlike a well placed sword, Can also have the power to heal. Posts: 2649 | Registered: Wednesday, October 3 2001 07:00 |
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Law Bringer
Member # 335
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written Tuesday, August 23 2005 21:29
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The real problem is that no single entity is willing to build a hundred 30 megawatt plants when a single 3000 megawatt plant can be built with less expenditure of time and money. Putting up turbines or solar panels takes a long time to be profitable for an individual. Companies probably don't like making significant investments for modest gains in the long term when they could make more money quicker in other ways. Stranger, you have the problem backwards. Solar, wind, and hydroelectric power can't supply us now. Fission can. Fission can continue to do so for a very long time even if fusion doesn't pan out. Yes, the waste is a problem, but it's still better than the pollutants of current plants, and nuclear power isn't nearly as dependent on location. All you need is somewhere where the property values can suffer as (rather unnecessarily) flipped out residents flee en masse. I'm no expert on power, but the difficulties of using a plant in the Mojave to run NYC are obvious. Power lines are designed to minimize resistance, but they do have it, so some power is lost in transit. The longer the wire, the greater the loss. Additionally, either multiple lines have to be run to form a true power grid or there's a risk of a storm in Nebraska knocking out the line and cutting off power to everything east of the problem. —Alorael, who doesn't like the idea of burying waste in the desert very much himself. Shooting it into space has its problems as well. On the other hand, is covering an area with a wind farm or panels really any better than covering or using it to cover a large bunker with radioactive waste? Posts: 14579 | Registered: Saturday, December 1 2001 08:00 |
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Apprentice
Member # 6161
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written Tuesday, August 23 2005 21:35
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Fusion plant sounds cool. I wish I'd see one someday. Last few weeks the City of Don-gwan suffered an oil deficiency. Cars circled around a single gas station and nearby streets days and nights. It's comical, hearing people's complaints and all.On an ego thought, I want to see the day fossil fuels are globally depleted, thus to satisfy my desire for envirimental vengence. Posts: 20 | Registered: Saturday, July 30 2005 07:00 |
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Agent
Member # 1558
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written Tuesday, August 23 2005 21:40
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Isn't the thing about fossil fuels that: there are as yet unused reserves but they are in areas people haven't been able to reach yet? Maybe they are too small for the cost to get at them. BTW What's the best conductor of electricity? I know that computer circuits use gold... -------------------- I'm tired of the strain and the pain ___ ___ ___ I feel the same, I feel nothing Nothing is important to me ___ ___ ___ ___ __ And nobody nowhere understands anything About me and all my dreams lost at sea ___ __ But we’re not the same, we’re different tonight We’ll make things right, we’ll feel it all tonight _ The indescribable moments of your life tonight The impossible is possible tonight ___ ____ ___ Believe in me as I believe in you, tonight Go All Blacks xtraMSN Rugby _ MuggleNet Posts: 1112 | Registered: Friday, July 19 2002 07:00 |
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Law Bringer
Member # 335
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written Tuesday, August 23 2005 21:58
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The problem isn't running out of fossil fuels, really. It's running out of money to get it. If gas is $30 per gallon, a car becomes a really big problem. If obtaining coal requires extreme procedures, nobody will be able to afford power bills. Fossil fuels will still be there, but not useful. [Edit: Silver has the highest conductivity of the metals, but copper is close and far cheaper, so that's what's used, I believe.] —Alorael, who doesn't like the model of constantly improving extraction matching constantly shrinking "easy" reserves and constantly growing demand. The resources aren't endless, and sometime someone is going to have to fix the problem. Before it becomes an urgent crisis would be good. [ Tuesday, August 23, 2005 22:01: Message edited by: R & D & B ] Posts: 14579 | Registered: Saturday, December 1 2001 08:00 |
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Mongolian Barbeque
Member # 1528
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written Tuesday, August 23 2005 22:19
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quote:A lot of these underground storage facilities are not properly supervised, or built on the cheap, and keep growing. Therefore the huge place you built to contain all this stuff is eventually filled up, so they have to do some ad-hoc expansion of these caverns, usually not as well insulated as they should be. Leakages happen and soak into the ground. It can reach the water tables underground and spread that way farther than you'd think. You know, just like the South Workshop in Geneforge. Unfortunately, it happens in real life. Also, Grooms Air Force base in Nevada was made an exception to federal pollution laws and became a dumping ground for radioactive waste on the surface. The government didn't care where this stuff was put, or how many people it made sick, as long as it was out of the eyes of the general public. I think they've since rectified this, but it shows the willingness to be recklessly irresponsible. quote:Exactly. There are mines where the rocks are simply permeated with oil, but the extraction and filtering process is so time-consuming and expensive that it takes more money to get the oil into a usable state than the oil is worth once it's out. Simply isn't viable. -------------------- The A.E. van Vogt Information Site My Tribute to the Greatest Writer of the Science Fiction Golden Age Posts: 907 | Registered: Monday, July 15 2002 07:00 |
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? Man, ? Amazing
Member # 5755
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written Tuesday, August 23 2005 23:17
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quote:Yeah. I'm all for getting companies out of the power loop. There are several cities in the NW that provide all their own power through geothermal heat taps that drive steam turbines. All the power needed by the town is generated on site. I'm a member of an electric co-op, and if I ever have excess energy I can pipe it back into the system. Essentially I'll spin the electric meter in the other direction. The city of Portland is trying to buy up the local power company (owned by Enron) and convert it to a public utility. There may be some tradeoffs in rates, but I think that we (society) are more likely to explore new power options if the corporations are not governing the system. Given current US law, the major oil companies could pump til the reserves are dry, declare bankrupcy and fastener the stockholders. Then no more oil for cars, power generation, boats :eek: , plastics, or all the other junk. Gotta love capitalism. *this message sponsored by the pud* Posts: 4114 | Registered: Monday, April 25 2005 07:00 |
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