Epics and Sagas
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Agent
Member # 2210
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written Friday, February 11 2005 02:25
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Hello all, Sometimes I like to read epic tales, ballads, sagas, etc. I have read the Iliad, Odyssey, Aenaeid, Eddas and a few others. I am going to start on The Tales of Heike which would be the other major clan than the Genji in Japan. Anybody have any epics to recommend out there-- Song of Roland, etc. which are worth reading. -------------------- Wasting your time and mine looking for a good laugh. Star Bright, Star Light, Oh I Wish I May, I Wish Might, Wish For One Star Tonight. Posts: 1084 | Registered: Thursday, November 7 2002 08:00 |
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Apprentice
Member # 5489
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written Friday, February 11 2005 03:44
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Sure: The Epic of Gilgamesh (John Gardner translation is most accurate, David Ferry translation most poetic) The Tain (Epic story of Irish cattle raid c. 1st century A.D.) The Mabinogion (Welsh--not really an Epic, more like a series of really cool legends) The Faerie Queene by Edmund Spenser--I recommend Books 1 and 3 to start with--book 2 is rather turgid. Then 4 and 5 are good too. Milton--Paradise Lost. He was trying to revive the classical epic in a modern, English form, so if you've read the classical epics, you will already be familiar with the conventions he uses, like Epic Similes, the Invocation to the Muse, etc. I could probably think of more if you want more. Guess this is what 5 years of English grad school gets you. :rolleyes: -------------------- "What we can say with confidence is that Rome fell gradually--and that Romans, for many decades, scarcely noticed what was happening." --Thomas Cahill, How the Irish Saved Civilization Posts: 4 | Registered: Friday, February 11 2005 08:00 |
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Infiltrator
Member # 1877
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written Friday, February 11 2005 04:01
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Beowulf, havent read it myself, but much of Tolkiens work is inspired by it. -------------------- 33111-CRUSADER-4849 Posts: 662 | Registered: Friday, September 13 2002 07:00 |
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Warrior
Member # 4484
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written Friday, February 11 2005 05:49
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Michael Moorcock: Elric, Hawkmoon, Erekose and Corum -------------------- "Il est interdit de se battre sur le Champ du Massacre; dit-il avant de marquer une pause, le temps de reflechir a la logique de ses propos." Discworld, The Colour of Magic Posts: 178 | Registered: Monday, June 7 2004 07:00 |
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Apprentice
Member # 5489
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written Friday, February 11 2005 05:57
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Beowulf, yes. And also John Gardner's rewriting of it from Grendel's perspective (appropriately titled "Grendel"). Dante's Inferno is entertaining and foundational as well--forgot about that one the first time around. -------------------- "What we can say with confidence is that Rome fell gradually--and that Romans, for many decades, scarcely noticed what was happening." --Thomas Cahill, How the Irish Saved Civilization Posts: 4 | Registered: Friday, February 11 2005 08:00 |
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Off With Their Heads
Member # 4045
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written Friday, February 11 2005 06:01
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Inferno may be the most interesting part of it, but you might as well read the whole Divine Comedy if you're reading Dante. There's always the Hindu epics, too, the Ramayana and such. -------------------- Arancaytar: Every time you ask people to compare TM and Kel, you endanger the poor, fluffy kittens. Kelandon's Pink and Pretty Page!!: the authorized location for all things by me The Archive of all released BoE scenarios ever Posts: 7968 | Registered: Saturday, February 28 2004 08:00 |
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BANNED
Member # 4
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written Friday, February 11 2005 09:26
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The Nibelungenlied and Moby Dick Are two works whose respective girths are thick. PS- What the hell are grad students doing, wasting their time with this dust-covered, phallocentric rubbish? -------------------- 人 た ち を 燃 え る た め に 俺 は か れ ら に 火 を 上 げ る か ら 死 ん だ Posts: 6936 | Registered: Tuesday, September 18 2001 07:00 |
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Warrior
Member # 3978
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written Friday, February 11 2005 10:12
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I dont know if you guys call these epic or not, but ;) The entire Lord of the Rings series, by JRR Tolkien The entire Incarnations of Immortality series by Piers Anthony And if you want a laugh... The Cartoon History of the World by Larry Gonick, all three volumes. Posts: 125 | Registered: Friday, February 13 2004 08:00 |
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Law Bringer
Member # 335
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written Friday, February 11 2005 16:39
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An epic is not what is commonly (mis) labeled as "epic fantasy." Tolkien did not write epics, although his works were certainly informed by epics. Piers Anthony certainly doesn't write epics, and I also happen to think he is a blight upon the literate world (but that's another story). I haven't read anything by Moorcock, but I'd bet his books are fantasy and not epic, too. —Alorael, who is reasonably certain that cartoons can't be epics. He is positive that novels can't be. If you can call a book a novel, it's not an epic. Posts: 14579 | Registered: Saturday, December 1 2001 08:00 |
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Agent
Member # 1558
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written Sunday, February 13 2005 12:49
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What about "Ramses" by Christian Jacq? -------------------- I'm tired of the strain and the pain ___ ___ ___ I feel the same, I feel nothing Nothing is important to me ___ ___ ___ ___ __ And nobody nowhere understands anything About me and all my dreams lost at sea ___ __ But we’re not the same, we’re different tonight We’ll make things right, we’ll feel it all tonight _ The indescribable moments of your life tonight The impossible is possible tonight ___ ____ ___ Believe in me as I believe in you, tonight Go All Blacks xtraMSN Rugby _ MuggleNet Posts: 1112 | Registered: Friday, July 19 2002 07:00 |
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Warrior
Member # 3978
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written Sunday, February 13 2005 15:01
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I understand they dont count as "epics"... But they're good books IMO anyway ;) Posts: 125 | Registered: Friday, February 13 2004 08:00 |
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Triad Mage
Member # 7
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written Monday, February 14 2005 01:19
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I would like to put forward the Desperance translation for the Epic of Gilgamesh. -------------------- "At times discretion should be thrown aside, and with the foolish we should play the fool." - Menander ==== Drakefyre's Demesne - Happy Happy Joy Joy desperance.net - We're Everywhere ==== You can take my Mac when you pry my cold, dead fingers off the mouse! Posts: 9436 | Registered: Wednesday, September 19 2001 07:00 |
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Law Bringer
Member # 2984
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written Monday, February 14 2005 03:30
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I would ask, but I have a hunch that the answer would be violating the CoC. Still... What is the Desperance translation of the Epic of Gilgamesh? -------------------- The Encyclopaedia Ermariana <-- Now a Wiki! "Polaris leers down from the black vault, winking hideously like an insane watching eye which strives to convey some strange message, yet recalls nothing save that it once had a message to convey." --- HP Lovecraft. "I single Aran out due to his nasty temperament, and his superior intellect." --- SupaNik Posts: 8752 | Registered: Wednesday, May 14 2003 07:00 |
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...b10010b...
Member # 869
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written Monday, February 14 2005 03:36
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An interpretation with just enough historical accuracy to make it disturbing on multiple levels. -------------------- My BoE Page Bandwagons are fun! Roots Hunted! Posts: 9973 | Registered: Saturday, March 30 2002 08:00 |
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Agent
Member # 2210
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written Monday, February 14 2005 12:59
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Most good fantasy writing is on some level based on epics. Keith Laumer-- Odyssey. John Gardner-- Grendel, The Dark Tower-- Stephen King (Song of Roland). Fantasy writing is not however epic. -------------------- Wasting your time and mine looking for a good laugh. Star Bright, Star Light, Oh I Wish I May, I Wish Might, Wish For One Star Tonight. Posts: 1084 | Registered: Thursday, November 7 2002 08:00 |
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Law Bringer
Member # 335
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written Monday, February 14 2005 17:44
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quote:That's not quite true. Most of the books marketed as "epic" fantasy are based directly or indirectly on epics stories and form, though not necessarily on specific essays. The more they diverge from this, the less epic or less good they become. Not all good fantasy is epic, though (arguably, of course!). There is Perdido Street Station-style fantasy (or sci-fi, maybe) that has nothing to do with epics. Yes, most fantasy authors stick to the epic mold, but there are those who try to break out of it, often with the result of making people unsure which genre the book belongs in. [Edit: Plural with an apostrophe? The end is nigh!] —Alorael, who would say most "gritty" fantasy tends to lean away from the epic for obvious reasons. A great deal of that isn't good, but it's no worse than epic fantasy on average, and the good books aren't epic. [ Tuesday, February 15, 2005 17:57: Message edited by: Ser sin rumbo cierto ] Posts: 14579 | Registered: Saturday, December 1 2001 08:00 |
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Agent
Member # 1558
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written Tuesday, February 15 2005 16:02
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The Bible? -------------------- I'm tired of the strain and the pain ___ ___ ___ I feel the same, I feel nothing Nothing is important to me ___ ___ ___ ___ __ And nobody nowhere understands anything About me and all my dreams lost at sea ___ __ But we’re not the same, we’re different tonight We’ll make things right, we’ll feel it all tonight _ The indescribable moments of your life tonight The impossible is possible tonight ___ ____ ___ Believe in me as I believe in you, tonight Go All Blacks xtraMSN Rugby _ MuggleNet Posts: 1112 | Registered: Friday, July 19 2002 07:00 |
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Infiltrator
Member # 4592
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written Saturday, February 19 2005 22:28
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Ah, Perdido Street. Fine book. Anyway, Toasted: You can give a try to the Elder Edda poems, which are mighty fine. If you feel like it, you can read El Cid. There are a few cool Russian and Arabian epics which my brain refuses to collaborate by giving me the memory of their names. Oh, and more modern stuff. . . most of the things that pass for Epic fantasy nowadays are more modern than based on anything medieval, anyway. But, there are a couple of books am very fond of, fantasy (not quite epic EPIC but kind of satiric epic, well, they are just quirky and different) by an author which unfortunately you can't find in bookstores (unless they are used book stores) called Avran Davidson. I'm referring to Peregrinus: Primus and Peregrinus: Secundus You can also check by the same master, Marco Polo and the Sleeping Beauty which is just wonderful. There's this guy called Jack Vance which I'm too biased for since he is my favorite writer, but I think I can recommend without being too badly criticize for doing so the following: The Lyonesse Trilogy (Lyonesse, Green Pearl, Madouc) Yes, they are modern, but, man, they are awesome (but, again, I'm biased) Hmmm. I guess Lord Dunsany, but he is more in the fairy tale side of things, Queen of Elfland daughter may (perhaps, possibly) be considered epic. Anyway, it's old and dense. Very dense. And, if I remember the names of the Russian Epics I'm thinking about, or the Arabian ones, I'll post again. Happy reading! -------------------- quote:Random Jack Vance Quote Manual Generator Apparatus (Cugel's Saga) Posts: 604 | Registered: Sunday, June 20 2004 07:00 |
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Agent
Member # 2210
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written Sunday, February 20 2005 17:28
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The Faerie Queen got to me. I was looking cross eyed after page 100. Turgid... I just finished something a bit interesting-- The Book of Dede Korkut -- A Turkish epic. Grab your black steel sword and multicolored 60 span lance. Very poetic and bloody. -------------------- Wasting your time and mine looking for a good laugh. Star Bright, Star Light, Oh I Wish I May, I Wish Might, Wish For One Star Tonight. Posts: 1084 | Registered: Thursday, November 7 2002 08:00 |
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Infiltrator
Member # 4592
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written Sunday, February 20 2005 19:07
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quote:Yup. Dunsany can have that effect. He's one tough guy to read. This is not quite subject related, but if anybody out there likes Tolkien, I recommend you this book: "The Road to Middle Earth" by T.A. Shippey. Brilliant book. It describes the different sources from where Tolkien based many of his ideas. Wonderfully knowledgeable. If you like literatury history, philology, and, of course, Tolkien, then this may prove to be a treat. -------------------- quote:Random Jack Vance Quote Manual Generator Apparatus (Cugel's Saga) Posts: 604 | Registered: Sunday, June 20 2004 07:00 |
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Agent
Member # 2210
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written Monday, February 21 2005 02:55
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Hmm. If you really love myth fantasy which I do very much. The Mythopoeic Society has an excellent list of award winners. They are focused on a group of writers called The Inklings J.R.R. Tolkien, C.S. Lewis and one other person. This is a link to their award winners: Award Winners -------------------- Wasting your time and mine looking for a good laugh. Star Bright, Star Light, Oh I Wish I May, I Wish Might, Wish For One Star Tonight. Posts: 1084 | Registered: Thursday, November 7 2002 08:00 |
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Warrior
Member # 2627
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written Wednesday, February 23 2005 10:02
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quote:I suppose it could be described as an epic, I'm not sure though. [ Wednesday, February 23, 2005 10:04: Message edited by: Brenitt-Ihrno ] -------------------- formally Brenitt-Ihrno I'm a very irregular poster, don't mind me. Join me, people NFC FOREVER!!! Posts: 81 | Registered: Wednesday, February 12 2003 08:00 |
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For Carnage, Apply Within
Member # 95
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written Thursday, February 24 2005 12:33
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An epic typically focuses on the story of an invidiual or a single group of people. Parts of the Bible could be considered epics if they were seperated from their context, I suppose. Posts: 567 | Registered: Friday, October 5 2001 07:00 |
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Shaper
Member # 5450
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written Thursday, February 24 2005 16:57
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A good book (or 10) to read is the Belgaraid (I think thats the spelling)and the Mallorean , both by David Edddings. Its best if you read the Belgaraid first. Also, if you liked them, there are two books that go with it - Polgara the Sorceress and Belgarath the Socerer. Also, I suggest the Harry Potter series. [ Thursday, February 24, 2005 17:00: Message edited by: Spring ] -------------------- I'll put a Spring in your step. Polaris Posts: 2396 | Registered: Saturday, January 29 2005 08:00 |
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Warrior
Member # 4414
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written Thursday, February 24 2005 18:00
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For anyone interested in an excellent re-telling of the King Arthur legend, I suggest Firelord by Parke Godwin. -------------------- AIM/Yahoo IM: Cavanoskus Scary artwork and Bad Poetry The Wildlife Research Team SnakeNetMetalRadio "We, who are about to die, salute you." Posts: 86 | Registered: Friday, May 21 2004 07:00 |