Tell me if you like programming. . .
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| Author | Topic: Tell me if you like programming. . . |
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Warrior
Member # 3698
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written Sunday, November 14 2004 15:57
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I want to know how many of us are pragramers. The poll will ask you if you like to program (scripting counts also). The second question only applies if you are a programmer. It asks you what language you like to program with (Basic, C, etc. ). The third and last question asks you what platform you use (Mac OS X, Windows 95, etc. ). [ Some Corrections ] : The choice that says "Windoes 95" should say "Windows 98" [ Saturday, November 27, 2004 13:02: Message edited by: Tbg10101 ] Poll Information This poll contains 3 question(s). 49 user(s) have voted. Voting started at November 14, 2004 04:55 PM board time. Voting stopped at November 14, 2005 04:55 PM board time. function launch_voter () { launch_window("http://www.ironycentral.com/cgi-bin/ubb/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=poll;d=vote;pollid=eNdDdMGafzqu"); return true; } // end launch_voter function launch_viewer () { launch_window("http://www.ironycentral.com/cgi-bin/ubb/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=poll;d=view;pollid=eNdDdMGafzqu"); return true; } // end launch_viewer function launch_window (url) { preview = window.open( url, "preview", "width=550,height=300,toolbar=no,location=no,directories=no,status,menubar=no,scrollbars,resizable,copyhistory=no" ); window.preview.focus(); return preview; } // end launch_window   -------------------- Hi. Why is the universe so BIG? Why am I human? How come hot dogs come in packages of 10 and buns 8? This will all be solved in time young padawan. Your quest for the ultimate Aztec manuer is coming to a climax. May the force be with you!!! ······························································ This is where I want you to click! Rate me! Ha Ha Check out my GF 1, 2 and 3 Helper! Ceck out some cool Mac OS X Apps that were made by me here! 10101 Software - You can take my iMac when you pry my cold, dead fingers off the wireless mouse! Posts: 179 | Registered: Tuesday, November 18 2003 08:00 |
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Warrior
Member # 3698
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written Sunday, November 14 2004 16:14
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Sorry, I couldn't put all of the languages on there but I did put an other choice in there. I do programming with REALBasic. -------------------- Hi. Why is the universe so BIG? Why am I human? How come hot dogs come in packages of 10 and buns 8? This will all be solved in time young padawan. Your quest for the ultimate Aztec manuer is coming to a climax. May the force be with you!!! ······························································ This is where I want you to click! Rate me! Ha Ha Check out my GF 1, 2 and 3 Helper! Ceck out some cool Mac OS X Apps that were made by me here! 10101 Software - You can take my iMac when you pry my cold, dead fingers off the wireless mouse! Posts: 179 | Registered: Tuesday, November 18 2003 08:00 |
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Shock Trooper
Member # 5181
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written Sunday, November 14 2004 16:19
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Oy. REALbasic is a hybrid of the bad parts of Java, C, and Visual Basic. ...But I use it too, sad to say. That, C/C++, Java, VB, Python, and a few others. Oh, and you forgot one big one: Avernumscript! :P Posts: 262 | Registered: Thursday, November 11 2004 08:00 |
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Infiltrator
Member # 1877
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written Sunday, November 14 2004 16:20
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Vote: Visual Basic, on my Play Station 2. ^_^ OS: Windows XP and Mac OS X, and my Play Station 2. :P -------------------- 33111-CRUSADER-4849 Posts: 662 | Registered: Friday, September 13 2002 07:00 |
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Shock Trooper
Member # 3719
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written Sunday, November 14 2004 16:56
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Once I tried, but I don't like it, I like to use programs though :) -------------------- Scandalous Stories, fishing,and great photos Posts: 294 | Registered: Monday, November 24 2003 08:00 |
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Agent
Member # 1104
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written Sunday, November 14 2004 17:13
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Third question - I assume that "Windoes 95" should have been Win98 I do C++, PHP, ASP, and CGI. CGI and ASP were left out, but oh well. And quite frankly, I've never even heard of most of these languages... EDIT: Nevermind, CGI is with Perl, and that's on the list. [ Sunday, November 14, 2004 17:15: Message edited by: RC ] -------------------- Austrian Alex - Reality Corp. Posts: 1307 | Registered: Tuesday, May 7 2002 07:00 |
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Master
Member # 4614
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written Sunday, November 14 2004 17:55
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Does HTML/XML count? Or is that not considered a programming language? Sure seems like it to me. Anyway, I've tried HTML and C++, along with a wee bit of Java. I have found that I enjoy programming immensely. :) -------------------- -ben4808 For those who love to spam: CSM Forums RIFQ Posts: 3360 | Registered: Friday, June 25 2004 07:00 |
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Off With Their Heads
Member # 4045
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written Sunday, November 14 2004 18:08
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Avernumscript only. Someday I will learn C and C++, but not yet. Oh, and I am a Mac type person. [ Sunday, November 14, 2004 18:35: Message edited by: Kelandon ] -------------------- Arancaytar: Every time you ask people to compare TM and Kel, you endanger the poor, fluffy kittens. Kelandon's Pink and Pretty Page!!: the authorized location for all things by me The Archive of all released BoE scenarios ever Posts: 7968 | Registered: Saturday, February 28 2004 08:00 |
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Master
Member # 1046
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written Sunday, November 14 2004 18:31
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i do mostly Java, but i hope to learn C++ sometime... probably after the school year ends. and i've never even heard of most of those languages... O_o also, i use WinXP on this computer, and had Win2k on my old computer, and Win98 on the one before that. no, i've never used a Mac before in my life and i don't intend to. [ Sunday, November 14, 2004 18:34: Message edited by: Wisemanism: the Religion ] -------------------- Polaris - Weather balloons, ninjas, and your big daddy Wise Man. What more could you want? Undead Theories - Don't Ask, Don't Tell Posts: 3323 | Registered: Thursday, April 25 2002 07:00 |
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Warrior
Member # 5091
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written Sunday, November 14 2004 20:17
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HTML is a markup language. It is entirely static and possesses no facility for conditional logic; thus, it is not a programming language. Javascript, on the other hand, is. There are some XML-based languages that appear to be Turing-complete, and are thus theoretically programming languages. XSLT appears to be in this category; it certainly possesses conditional logic. I program regularly in Ruby; I am fluent in C, C++, Lua, Perl, Bourne shell (sh), and Python; I have a working knowledge of Javascript and Ada (rusty), and finally, I am familiar with about a dozen other languages, including O'Caml, LISP, and Pike. My primary domain of expertise is web and database programming. Did you just copy and paste from some list of programming languges? Seriously, Algol. Which one, 58, 60, or 68? *snicker* Posts: 180 | Registered: Friday, October 15 2004 07:00 |
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Infiltrator
Member # 3040
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written Sunday, November 14 2004 20:32
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I've used REALBasic, Java, AppleScript. I tried learning Objective-C, and made a simple program, but it was kinda over my head. I can also read PowerPC assembly pretty well (well enough to... um... do certain things inappropriate for these boards). But do I consider myself a programmer? Meh. Not really. I think everyone should have at least some knowledge of programming. -------------------- 5.0.1.0.0.0.0.1.0... Posts: 508 | Registered: Thursday, May 29 2003 07:00 |
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Law Bringer
Member # 2984
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written Sunday, November 14 2004 21:16
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If "programming" is taken to refer to the use of a language that consists of commands given to and interpreted by a computer, in order for it to perform certain actions, then HTML is a programming language. If it's defined as using a structure of commands that work together and call on each other to perform single, complex processes, then no. HTML's commands hardly depend on each other, and can't perform any calculations) Edit: How dumb. Djur said exactly the same thing two posts ago... That said, I code (that would be the word for it) websites in HTML, CSS and JavaScript, but I consider only JavaScript to be a programming language, since it uses groups of commands ("functions" or "methods") that can be called automatically. I've tried PHP, but I suck at it and haven't had the time to actively learn it. The only other languages I'm good at right now are Java and Maple (and Logo, I suppose, but that is fading again now that I no longer use it). I expect to start learning C/C++ in my course soon, as well as Unix, Fortran and Matlab, but all the fancy web stuff (PHP, MySQL, LaTex etc) will come next year at the earliest. [ Monday, November 15, 2004 04:19: Message edited by: Beyond the days of mortal lands ] -------------------- The Encyclopaedia Ermariana <-- Now a Wiki! "Polaris leers down from the black vault, winking hideously like an insane watching eye which strives to convey some strange message, yet recalls nothing save that it once had a message to convey." --- HP Lovecraft. "I single Aran out due to his nasty temperament, and his superior intellect." --- SupaNik Posts: 8752 | Registered: Wednesday, May 14 2003 07:00 |
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Law Bringer
Member # 2984
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written Sunday, November 14 2004 21:24
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Thought I was past double posts long ago... [ Monday, November 15, 2004 04:17: Message edited by: Beyond the days of mortal lands ] Posts: 8752 | Registered: Wednesday, May 14 2003 07:00 |
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Agent
Member # 618
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written Monday, November 15 2004 06:30
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One language that isn't up there is Turbo Pascal. It is one of the most simple, yet aggrieving languages out there. Gragh, it's a good thing that I'm not going to end up having to use it for A-Level Computing. -------------------- Aut Tace Aut Loquere Meliora Silencio Posts: 1487 | Registered: Sunday, February 10 2002 08:00 |
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Warrior
Member # 3870
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written Monday, November 15 2004 08:18
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JavaScript is also not there. It is definitely a separate language, and not just a variant of Java. (much more separate than, for example, C and C++). -------------------- "Toleration is not the opposite of intoleration, but is the counterfeit of it. Both are despotisms. The one assumes to itself the right of withholding liberty of conscience, and the other of granting it." ---Thomas Paine Posts: 156 | Registered: Thursday, January 8 2004 08:00 |
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Warrior
Member # 3698
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written Monday, November 15 2004 13:05
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Like i said, i am sorry that I couldn't put all of the languages on there but I could only put 99 choices. Window 95 was actually an operating system . . . so I mean Windows 95 I am a TOTALLY MAC PERSON :cool: :D I am a TOTALLY REALBasic PERSON :D :cool: [ Monday, November 15, 2004 13:07: Message edited by: Tbg10101 ] -------------------- Hi. Why is the universe so BIG? Why am I human? How come hot dogs come in packages of 10 and buns 8? This will all be solved in time young padawan. Your quest for the ultimate Aztec manuer is coming to a climax. May the force be with you!!! ······························································ This is where I want you to click! Rate me! Ha Ha Check out my GF 1, 2 and 3 Helper! Ceck out some cool Mac OS X Apps that were made by me here! 10101 Software - You can take my iMac when you pry my cold, dead fingers off the wireless mouse! Posts: 179 | Registered: Tuesday, November 18 2003 08:00 |
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Shock Trooper
Member # 5181
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written Monday, November 15 2004 14:30
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quote:Perhaps more separate, but definitely less valuable. C and C++ account for somewhere around 80% of all commercial applications--which are the ones that matter. JavaScript is largely used by l33t h4xx0rz who want to hide their link locations. (Yes, I know, there are many valid uses of JavaScript. But I haven't found one I can either do without or do better in something else.) Posts: 262 | Registered: Thursday, November 11 2004 08:00 |
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Erudite*
Member # 3042
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written Monday, November 15 2004 15:38
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I've only used C++ so far. Next year I'll be learning Java (I wanted to this year, but not enough people signed up for the course). Sadly, my operating system is Windows ME. I think the computers I did most of the programming on were running NT, though. -------------------- Chance Forums I was once member #2475, but then my account was deleted because of a bug. Post count = 406 + whatever it says below. Posts: 402 | Registered: Thursday, May 29 2003 07:00 |
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Warrior
Member # 5091
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written Monday, November 15 2004 19:57
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quote:C and C++ may account for that many commercial end-user, client-side applications, but their representation on heavy servers (where Java rules) and web servers (where PHP/Python/Perl do) is rather slim; there are many, many domains in which ease of coding and maintenance is preferred to raw speed. In addition, what would you do client-side scripting on HTML documents with if not with Javascript? It's the only such language that is near-universally supported -- and believe me, if you're doing real web application programming, Javascript is a real boon, unless you WANT to do a POST for every single local state change. Posts: 180 | Registered: Friday, October 15 2004 07:00 |
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Warrior
Member # 3870
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written Tuesday, November 16 2004 04:06
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Once again, I am in total agreement. Barring PHP (which doesn't work on most free hosting spots), there is no way to make a site dynamic except with Javascript. Some people like static html better, but consider this: Every page you load is about 5-10 KB. If the pictures are reloaded as well, it quickly goes to 50-100k. If you have a slow connection (or for that matter a meager traffic allowance from your provider), you want to cut down on your transfer. And each time a site is modified via Javascript rather than reload, you save a few seconds and kB. Plus, the site becomes very clumsy to handle, since you will probably have to repeat modifications on several identical sites (unless you use an html coder, but that's not programming, is it?) Edit: Why is it only now that I get what that name means? Walker... Texas... I'm slow on occasion. :P [ Tuesday, November 16, 2004 04:08: Message edited by: I Am A Puppet Account ] -------------------- "Toleration is not the opposite of intoleration, but is the counterfeit of it. Both are despotisms. The one assumes to itself the right of withholding liberty of conscience, and the other of granting it." ---Thomas Paine Posts: 156 | Registered: Thursday, January 8 2004 08:00 |
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Warrior
Member # 5091
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written Tuesday, November 16 2004 11:46
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PHP doesn't provide for any sort of client-side processing. It's all processed server-side and sent to the client as static text. Posts: 180 | Registered: Friday, October 15 2004 07:00 |
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Shock Trooper
Member # 5181
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written Tuesday, November 16 2004 16:12
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quote:Over 80% of all commercial applications are written in C or C++ (figures from 1st qtr. 2003). There is no "end-user, client-side" qualifier in that statement. Stroustroup's own site proclaimed that number, and I'd be inclined to believe him. As for "ease of coding"--you call Java easier to code than C/C++? I want to know where to get your special brownie ingredients, 'cause that boggles the mind. quote:I use Java for nearly everything, because I long ago stopped caring about 56Kers and less--and I generally don't have a need for client-side scripting anyway; most of my stuff is server-side. quote:1) Don't cater to the lowest denominator. People with 28.8k and 56k modems are becoming the exception rather than the norm. 2) Let me see if I understand your logic. Because PHP isn't supported on free sites...Javascript is better? That makes no sense. 3) Java beats the tar out of Javascript and, though more difficult to use, has the advantage of being useful in more than a scant few respects. Posts: 262 | Registered: Thursday, November 11 2004 08:00 |
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Warrior
Member # 5091
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written Tuesday, November 16 2004 18:12
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Java also does not work for client-side manipulation of HTML. Javascript's ability to manipulate forms is enough alone to make it useful. Java/ECMAscript is a fine scripting language for a variety of purposes; for an example of how useful it can be, I point to the Mozilla applications, all of which are based on XUL and Javascript. I couldn't tell you whether Java is easier to code; I don't use it. I can tell you that it has significant penetration on the server side and decent penetration on the client. Stroustrup? Wouldn't ol' Bjarne be just a tad biased towards the language he created? Which survey was this, anyway? I think it's likely that the definition of "commercial application" excludes something like contracted works or server-side applications, both of which are major sectors of the software market. In addition, why do you claim that commercial software is what matters? According to Netcraft, a non-commercial web server (Apache httpd) is used for over 67% of all websites. That's a pretty commanding statistic. Many of these websites, including 12 Fortune 100 companies, use an operating system, GNU/Linux, which is developed and distributed in a mixed commercial/non-commercial fashion. In fact, non-commercial and semi-commercial software commands a significant portion of the market. To dismiss it is a foolish and short-sighted choice. By the way, why are you gluing C and C++ together? They're different languages, and share surprisingly little in terms of domain and skills involved. Oh, and finally, server roundtrips will always be a high-latency operation as compared to local processing, even when we're all on OC-48s connecting our 15GHz workstations directly to Internet2. [ Tuesday, November 16, 2004 18:27: Message edited by: Walker, Texas Corpse ] Posts: 180 | Registered: Friday, October 15 2004 07:00 |
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Law Bringer
Member # 2984
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written Tuesday, November 16 2004 20:17
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quote:Java is very easy to code. Since I have never had occasion to write in C++ (nor learn how to), I wouldn't be able to compare that. However, I doubt that C++ can be a lot simpler than what I'm doing now. quote:I use Java for nearly everything, because I long ago stopped caring about 56Kers and less--and I generally don't have a need for client-side scripting anyway; most of my stuff is server-side. quote:They might be, but a statistic apparently showed they represent a significant part of the Spiderweb fanbase still - as do those with older machines. Since my biggest site project is intended for the use of Spiderweb fans, I would do well by decreasing download traffic. It's a win-win, because small files don't alienate users with fast connections. There might be a detriment to appeal for a lot of young AOL3rs who prefer their sites with flashy graphics, but I don't believe Jeff when he says they make up the majority of the Spiderweb fanbase. Edit: What about another poll concentrating on connection speeds then? quote:As more than three quarters of my current sites are on free providers without PHP support... yes, by my logic Javascript is a lot better. There are people around who choose to spend their meager resources on other things than web domains. quote:With the difference that I could go to my text editor right now and crank out a Javascript file to upload in less than half an hour. I could write Java program in the same time, but I don't have a compiler on this machine. So yes, an interpreted language has its benefits. -------------------- The Encyclopaedia Ermariana <-- Now a Wiki! "Polaris leers down from the black vault, winking hideously like an insane watching eye which strives to convey some strange message, yet recalls nothing save that it once had a message to convey." --- HP Lovecraft. "I single Aran out due to his nasty temperament, and his superior intellect." --- SupaNik Posts: 8752 | Registered: Wednesday, May 14 2003 07:00 |
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Shock Trooper
Member # 5181
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written Wednesday, November 17 2004 04:00
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quote:Something which I have no need for. If I have forms, I use CGI--because there's little that you can put in a form that I need to modify client-side. quote:If you want to get into scripting languages, go for it; I'm a Python boy. Another reason why JavaScript makes me feel icky--its syntax and structure is even more loose and on-the-fly than Python. quote:No arguments there. Heck, I use Java for client-side stuff myself. (OpenOffice, anyone?) quote:I'm trying to find a link to it; I can't for the life of me find the thing in his news archives. You probably aren't wrong in saying that it likely excludes contracted work and that sort of thing, however. quote:Last I checked, Apache was considered semi-commercial (there are ways for companies to make money off it), in the same way Linux is, for example, commercialized by RedHat. quote:Hey, I use it--I didn't say it wasn't significant. It's simply not where the money lies, and where the money lies is where people look. I'm not saying that is necessarily right--it's just true. It's been slowly changing, but not always in the right way. People like the Redhat folks are trying to commercialize it, which brings it into a grey area. quote:Common convention. I've never thought they are all that different in domain/skills (but then again, I grew up a structured programmer and use OOP as sparingly as possible--my brain just doesn't work that way). quote:As it stands, my cable modem (which has a variable rate, anywhere from 128K to about 768K on low-usage days) can ping to most servers at under 100ms and can download most web pages in well under a second. That sort of latency is negligible. Besides, didn't I say that 56K users are fast becoming a non-factor? :P Posts: 262 | Registered: Thursday, November 11 2004 08:00 |