Koala Cull
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| Author | Topic: Koala Cull |
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...b10010b...
Member # 869
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written Saturday, May 1 2004 05:25
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quote:Well, see, the thing there is that they're endangered because of habitat destruction, so the koala population in most areas is limited by what the current habitat can support. In the long run, getting hit by cars isn't their worst problem. -------------------- I'd be tender, I'd be gentle And awful sentimental Regarding love and art I'd be friends with the sparrows And the boy who shoots the arrows, If I only had a heart. Posts: 9973 | Registered: Saturday, March 30 2002 08:00 |
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This Side Towards Enemy
Member # 3098
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written Saturday, May 1 2004 06:04
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quote:Part of the problem is people don't stop to think. I can understand Stughalf's objection, although I disagree on the basis that I am a human and therefore am meant to value humans more than other lifeforms (or we'd be extinct) and I can't understand koalas. However, if your view is just 'but they're so sweet', I wouldn't waste a bullet on you. Bayonet in stomach, twist, pull out. Besides, speaking personally, if I was to die before my time, I'd want it to be a bullet in the head unexpectedly than slowly starving to death and taking most of the ecosystem with me. -------------------- "I particularly like the part where he claims not to know what self-aggrandisement means, then demands more wing-wongs up his virgin ass" Posts: 961 | Registered: Thursday, June 12 2003 07:00 |
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Post Navel Trauma ^_^
Member # 67
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written Saturday, May 1 2004 08:30
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quote:I hope you don't think I'm one of the bayonet-deservers. -------------------- Grammar wenches beware: This is the house that the malt that the rat that the cat that the dog that the cow that the maiden that the man that the priest that the cock that the farmer kept waked married kissed milked tossed worried killed ate lay in. My Website BoA BetterEditor for MacOS X desperance.net - Leave your sanity at the door Posts: 1798 | Registered: Thursday, October 4 2001 07:00 |
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Agent
Member # 618
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written Saturday, May 1 2004 10:26
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People object to it because they're "small 'n' furry"? Simple. Spread propaganda that they are in fact quite nasty and will have a finger off and the species probably has rabies. Sit back and see how many people object to a necessary cull then. So what if you lied? You saved a creature from unpleasant extinction. -------------------- I like to say quack because I can, I like to say moooo because I can, but I don't like saying ergle flmp because I can never pronounce phenomenon first try. In conclusion, quack, moooo and phenonemenonmenonnon... Oh Poo. http://s4.invisionfree.com/Ultimate_RP/index.php Try it! Posts: 1487 | Registered: Sunday, February 10 2002 08:00 |
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Guardian
Member # 3521
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written Saturday, May 1 2004 11:34
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Although I comprehend your arguments, I'm still not convinced. Alec, I agree that sapience is quite an advantage, and that humans have managed, over the relatively short period of our existence, to alter the world in ways that would be far beyond the abilities of any other animal. We are born problem solvers, and we have succeeded, over several thousands of years, in harnessing our brainpower to lengthen and improve the quality of our lives, subjugate the "lower" animals, "domesticate" and culture ourselves and our habits, create all manner of government systems, build awe-inspiring monuments to the glory and majesty of humanity, and so on. However, it should be clear to everyone that human sapience tends to have its limits. We might excel at solving the problems of the moment, but we tend to have very little or no foresight in our actions. I'm sure none of you will deny the fact that humans are fully responsible for the problem of human overpopulation. We've been blind, really, trying so hard, over so many years, to improve our lot, only to create a dangerous situation that could potentially mean the end of Earth itself in time. There would be no koala overpopulation problem if there wasn't a human overpopulation problem. Humans selfishly destroy the habitat of the koalas for their own purposes, selfishly breed koalas on an island out of greed, or callousness, or both. And who pays for the mistakes and the stupidity of humans? The koalas, of course, for being most ignominiously used. I'm no sentimental waste of air- I'm about as sensitive as the late John Holmes' dong. But I can identify real injustice when I see it- and that is why this issue disturbs me so deeply. -------------------- Stughalf "The death-knell of the republic had rung as soon as the active power became lodged in the hands of those who sought, not to do justice to all citizens, rich and poor alike, but to stand for one special class and for its interests as opposed to the interests of others."- Theodore Roosevelt, 1903. Posts: 1798 | Registered: Sunday, October 5 2003 07:00 |
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Agent
Member # 618
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written Saturday, May 1 2004 11:55
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Acually if the human race is anything, it is certainly not problem solvers, I personally think that this hypothetical situation explains it best: Say an alien ship landed tomorrow. Say that it was full of delegates from a galaxy-wide federation of planets. Say that they had come to ask us to join. Say that the reasons they gave was that the human race had one racial trait was so unlike anything else, that this one tiny planet, which had barely achieved space-travel, was being asked to join a mighty federation with thousands of member races, each spreading across hundreds of star systems. Now what would this trait be? Problem solving? Hell no! If they had achieved what they had, they wouldn't think our problem solving abilities any cop. How about survival instinct? Nooooo! The animals on this planet aren't that vicious compared to the average human. So what? Well there would only be one thing I could think of... (drum roll)....... Blind Luck. Most of our technological advances came about by sheer accident. Our planet shouldn't, in it's position, size and mass be like it is, it should be like Venus. The list goes on forever... Case point closed. -------------------- I like to say quack because I can, I like to say moooo because I can, but I don't like saying ergle flmp because I can never pronounce phenomenon first try. In conclusion, quack, moooo and phenonemenonmenonnon... Oh Poo. http://s4.invisionfree.com/Ultimate_RP/index.php Try it! Posts: 1487 | Registered: Sunday, February 10 2002 08:00 |
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Infiltrator
Member # 2242
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written Saturday, May 1 2004 12:16
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I think if animals are starving, being shot is a better death that suffering and starving. It's a necesary thing. -------------------- "He who fights with monsters should look to it that he himself does not become a monster... when you gaze long into the abyss the abyss also gazes back into you." -Friedrich Nietzsche "There is no dodging the quad laser." -Ignignok Posts: 469 | Registered: Thursday, November 14 2002 08:00 |
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Bob's Big Date
Member # 3151
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written Saturday, May 1 2004 17:32
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Stughalf, when I first read over your post, I could have sworn I saw the phrase 'glory hole' in relation to humanity's achievements. As a result, I find responding to it, even knowing what it truly contains, utterly impossible. It is necessary to fix today's problems before atoning for the sins of the fathers, anyway -- if we sit back and lament breeding koalas on a limited ecosystem with no natural predators, more than get culled will starve. To put it into perspective, if I were convinced it would solve the overpopulation problem without causing bigger ones, I'd be all in favor of culling people, too, and not even assuming that I'm an outside factor. I've gotta go someday, and if it's to lend coherence to a movement that will save humanity, it'd be something of a hero's death, in a way. Certainly a more useful way to end than at the bottom of a stairwell at an autumnal age. [ Saturday, May 01, 2004 17:36: Message edited by: Custerbly Numb ] -------------------- AnamaFreak (3:59:56 AM): Shounen-ai to the MAX ...there really is nothing that can compare to hot gay sex with a mythological icon. --665 Posts: 2367 | Registered: Friday, June 27 2003 07:00 |
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Guardian
Member # 3521
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written Saturday, May 1 2004 21:50
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I suppose I agree; death by violence is an improvement over death by starvation, and the blood is on our hands even if we let them all starve. However, it is intolerable that such disasters are still occurring even at this stage in human existence. Unless humanity begins to show some real wisdom, prudence, restraint, and foresight in its actions, the worst is clearly yet to come. It is my hope that, in witnessing the horror of the acts we shall be forced to commit to resolve the koala situation and others of its ilk, we will finally gain a sense of the great responsibility we hold as stewards of our planet. -------------------- Stughalf "The death-knell of the republic had rung as soon as the active power became lodged in the hands of those who sought, not to do justice to all citizens, rich and poor alike, but to stand for one special class and for its interests as opposed to the interests of others."- Theodore Roosevelt, 1903. Posts: 1798 | Registered: Sunday, October 5 2003 07:00 |
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Apprentice
Member # 4162
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written Sunday, May 2 2004 09:01
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dont Koalas eat gum leaves..maybe Ive missed something but Australia might be able to fit them in somewhere ? ok Im obviously missing something vital anyway, I happened to hear on the radio the other day how culling does not work for a number of populations. Obviously it does work to an extent, but the solution is only temporary, whereas sterilization seems to work better. Probably because the size of populations is a constraint of sorts (dont know). But then, in this specific case, these animals would need to reallocated too. is it certain there is nowhere to accommodate them ? quote:If only, but this is sport to people, many volunteer for these opportunities. Posts: 36 | Registered: Sunday, March 28 2004 08:00 |
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Shock Trooper
Member # 3377
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written Sunday, May 2 2004 14:41
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Koalas are particular, if voracious, eaters. They only eat the leaves of certain eucalyptus species, and those trees do not grow all over Australia. They can be accomodated elsewhere, but not in numbers that will make much of a dent in the Kangaroo Island population, or change the problem. There isn't enough food for them. -------------------- From many a wondrous grot and secret cell Unnumbered and enormous polypi Winnow with giant fins the slumbering green. Posts: 356 | Registered: Saturday, August 23 2003 07:00 |
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Infiltrator
Member # 1877
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written Sunday, May 2 2004 16:04
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Its not my fault TM, its like an inbred instinct  But something has to be done though. Hmm, moving colonies? But where the heck!? Bah, its not a very realistic idea annyways. [ Sunday, May 02, 2004 16:17: Message edited by: Black Griffon aka. StD ] -------------------- For Ancelot the ancient cross of war for the holy town of gods Gloria, gloria perpetua in this dawn of victory The one and only StD! 33111-CRUSADER-4849 Posts: 662 | Registered: Friday, September 13 2002 07:00 |
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This Side Towards Enemy
Member # 3098
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written Monday, May 3 2004 03:02
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Thunvael, why does it matter if those performing the cull treat it as sport? To be allowed to participate, a high degree of competence and responsibility would still be required and it's surely better if people get the sport there than killing the koalas for no good reason whatsoever. Hunting quotas resemble a much reduced yearly cull and combining these with sport provide revenue to protect the environment. Obviously, a degree of oversight is necessary, but by and large those who hunt have no wish to kill every animal on the planet. -------------------- "I particularly like the part where he claims not to know what self-aggrandisement means, then demands more wing-wongs up his virgin ass" Posts: 961 | Registered: Thursday, June 12 2003 07:00 |
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Apprentice
Member # 4162
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written Monday, May 3 2004 03:07
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I found this information which seems a more comprehensive and long term in solution. The problem, or a significant contributor there to, apparently was caused by human deforestation. http://www.savethekoala.com/mediarelease.html Posts: 36 | Registered: Sunday, March 28 2004 08:00 |
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Apprentice
Member # 4162
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written Monday, May 3 2004 03:16
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Well firstly my comments are best understood in relation to the quote cited, since there was a hope people might learn responsibility if they experience the reality of taking life. Unfortunately I dont think those sentiments would be shared by the typical shooter. The motive of people who make it a game to kill other sentient life forms is questionable in itself. A hypocrisy of values, what we want preserved for ourselves, but are happy to ignore when it comes to other life forms for the sake of bloodsport. Posts: 36 | Registered: Sunday, March 28 2004 08:00 |
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Bob's Big Date
Member # 3151
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written Monday, May 3 2004 03:18
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I find that unreasonable. The only solution it offers seems to be adoption, which is, on a larger scale, crueler than killing them -- most people who would actually adopt a damn koala are idiots who are opposed to culling on an 'aww, but they're so cute' level, and have no business caring for themselves, much less a high-maintenance animal. The point is, no one ever said the koalas are to blame here. Either we are going to get rid of 20,000 koalas -- quickly, painlessly, and at random -- or we are going to have nearly 30,000 starve, which is probably among the worst ways to go. -------------------- AnamaFreak (3:59:56 AM): Shounen-ai to the MAX ...there really is nothing that can compare to hot gay sex with a mythological icon. --665 Posts: 2367 | Registered: Friday, June 27 2003 07:00 |
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Apprentice
Member # 4162
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written Monday, May 3 2004 03:22
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Im not sure what you find unreasonable, if we have the means and resources to save lives, at least a number of them, ethically it should follow. While some may need to be killed for the present situation because of overall population dynamics, culling is only a temporary solution. It becomes an unethical one if we fall back on it, to 'save the Koala's' because we keep endangering them. Posts: 36 | Registered: Sunday, March 28 2004 08:00 |
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Bob's Big Date
Member # 3151
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written Monday, May 3 2004 03:28
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Third-party shelter is an option of desperation. If I had the choice of a giant plucking me out of my home out of the clear blue sea, forced away from my friends and family, named Schnookums, caged into an area completely alien to me, fed cat food, whalloped when I tried to urinate or defecate wherever I pleased, and fondled and smacked around by the giant and their little brats and a bullet to the back of the head, I'd paint a big target from one ear to another, just to make real sure. -------------------- AnamaFreak (3:59:56 AM): Shounen-ai to the MAX ...there really is nothing that can compare to hot gay sex with a mythological icon. --665 Posts: 2367 | Registered: Friday, June 27 2003 07:00 |
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Apprentice
Member # 4162
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written Monday, May 3 2004 03:37
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You are entitled to your perspectives, whether you would adhere to them we cannot really test. However animal behaviour tends towards preservation throughout the gamut of undesirable conditions. Thus with our limited knowledge of what an animal may truly want, it would be more consistent to preserve life in hope of better circumstances. Im not even sure what the issue is Im disagreeing with  Been a long day, but if I am discerning the general theme correctly, then it is disconcertingly narrow to assume killing things is the most ethical action available.Posts: 36 | Registered: Sunday, March 28 2004 08:00 |
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Lifecrafter
Member # 1768
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written Monday, May 3 2004 03:49
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He's not assuming, he came to that conclusion through much thought (I hope). The biggest difference in opinions is how you see humans. We can see ourselves on the same level as the animals, or we can see ourselves as something special. We wouldn't even be debating this if we were at the same level of the animals. Humans, however great we may make ourselves out to be, are also monsters, in some ways. The people here and there who haven't learned to love each other end up making the world a worse place to exist for humans and animals alike. -------------------- "Oh, North Wind, why frighten others? In Nature's family all are brothers. Puff and blow and wheeze and hiss; You can't frighten Shingebiss. Bring your frost and ice and snow; I'm still free to come and go. You can never frighten me, One who never fears is FREE!" -Shingebiss, the mighty duck Posts: 830 | Registered: Tuesday, August 20 2002 07:00 |
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...b10010b...
Member # 869
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written Monday, May 3 2004 04:21
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I don't see the relevance of your point, DP. Human lives aren't directly at risk here either way, and nobody seems to disagree that letting animals live is, all other things being equal, preferable to letting them die. The question being debated is a procedural one: we're arguing, effectively, over the best way to save as many as possible. -------------------- I'd be tender, I'd be gentle And awful sentimental Regarding love and art I'd be friends with the sparrows And the boy who shoots the arrows, If I only had a heart. Posts: 9973 | Registered: Saturday, March 30 2002 08:00 |
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Shock Trooper
Member # 1814
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written Monday, May 3 2004 04:25
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Sounds like their death is inevitable. Might as well make it painless. I hate humans, they're all monsters in my eye. If a large part of the human race starts to do something not much can stop them. Besides, if unforseen events plague the human race later on for this kind of behavior then good. Might mean that as a species they weren't meant to live. You know, ironically I hate humans but all I ever do around most of them is help out and be polite. Scary, what if someone you know who acts as a saint is really a maniac? -------------------- The great light bulb converses its thoughts in a fashion most particular to its complicated nature. Posts: 215 | Registered: Friday, August 30 2002 07:00 |
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Lifecrafter
Member # 1768
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written Monday, May 3 2004 13:59
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quote:Hmmm?Can I blame it on the Koala?  Okay?Yeah, it seems that culling is the most effective temporary solution, because the need is urgent. I agree. -------------------- "Oh, North Wind, why frighten others? In Nature's family all are brothers. Puff and blow and wheeze and hiss; You can't frighten Shingebiss. Bring your frost and ice and snow; I'm still free to come and go. You can never frighten me, One who never fears is FREE!" -Shingebiss, the mighty duck Posts: 830 | Registered: Tuesday, August 20 2002 07:00 |
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BoE Posse
Member # 112
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written Monday, May 3 2004 14:36
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I can't understand people who say "I hate humans, they're monsters!". We are the only species who cares in the slightest about kindness and justice. That's why callous acts are labelled inhumane. If you're going to hate something, hate Dingoes. They're astonishingly cruel. -------------------- Rate my scenarios! Areni Revenge To Live in Fear Deadly Goblins Ugantan Nightmare Isle of Boredom Posts: 1423 | Registered: Sunday, October 7 2001 07:00 |
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Babelicious
Member # 3149
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written Monday, May 3 2004 17:39
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Considering that the dingo was essentially created by humans, that's not really the best example. -------------------- Beatoff Valley: A story told out of order. Posts: 999 | Registered: Friday, June 27 2003 07:00 |