Why do you like BoE but not BoA?

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AuthorTopic: Why do you like BoE but not BoA?
Shock Trooper
Member # 1249
Profile Homepage #25
The most important reasons why I like BoE better:

* The graphics.

* Combat. It feels more imbalanced in BoA than in BoE. And less diverse.

A smaller reason but a reason nonetheless:

* Navigation. I manage to click a wrong direction in BoA in battle at a critical moment quite often, it must have something to do with the hills. The automap is still sometimes confusing. Having North in the upper right corner is irritating, in my opinion.

(Seems to repeat some of the posts above.)

EDIT: Also, there are more terrains and items in BoA, but you can only have 2 wall sets and there's less diversity in weapons and armor. There are many interesting "junk" items but they are not as interesting as items that have some use.

I don't really care about having 3D graphics, except that having heights that make falling possible is cool. What I like most in BoA both as a player and a designer could be the more flexible talking dialogue system. I don't know, but BoA is not entirely bad, either, in my view.

(I like Exile 1&2 though they have no dialog pictures. I even don't like many of BoE's dialog pics. But the quality of BoA dialog pics seems better to me and I like seeing them used in scenarios...)

[ Sunday, May 29, 2005 02:23: Message edited by: Milu ]
Posts: 259 | Registered: Saturday, June 1 2002 07:00
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I agree mostly with what others said. It's easier to navigate, the BoE interface is much more charming and friendly, etc.

Finally, I just don't have the same kind of fun with BoA that I have with BoE.

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Posts: 626 | Registered: Monday, October 25 2004 07:00
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quote:
Originally written by Dervish Malachai:

...BoE has SDFs.
God. Hearing newbies harp on about why BoE is bad without the slightest iota of experience is almost painful to read.

Are you actually saying that I have no experience about BoE (Considering that I haven't taken note of any other newbies to this forum having posted here.)? Mate, I have played through Valley of Dying Things and that's enough experience to be able to voice my opinion about things. And oh, I never said that I prefered BoA. I said that BoA was newer and had more potential to attract first-timers.
Posts: 437 | Registered: Friday, May 13 2005 07:00
...b10010b...
Member # 869
Profile Homepage #28
Considering you've only made one small comment in this topic, and it didn't really relate to BoE/BoA comparison, I suspect he wasn't talking to you. Get over yourself.

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The Empire Always Loses: This Time For Sure!
Posts: 9973 | Registered: Saturday, March 30 2002 08:00
BANNED
Member # 4
Profile Homepage #29
quote:
Originally written by Eagle, the author soul:

Mate, I have played through Valley of Dying Things and that's enough experience to be able to voice my opinion about things.
You weren't my target. Stop painting cocentric circles on your derriere.

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Posts: 6936 | Registered: Tuesday, September 18 2001 07:00
Warrior
Member # 5343
Profile #30
to make a decent town takes nearly a day

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Welcome To The Darkslide
Posts: 70 | Registered: Saturday, January 1 2005 08:00
Warrior
Member # 556
Profile #31
From a mere player's point of view:

At first I believed BoA was going to be BoE ported in 3D - and 3D should be better!

I was in for a disappointment. BoA has inferior graphics compared to other similar 3D games (ex. Neverwinter Nights), positioning of North is confusing as you cannot move the camera around, view of the world is restricted etc... - that is, the game convensions lack in credibility. BoE has good graphics for a 2D game and the game conventions feel quite believable.

All above might not have been that objectionable if BoA had retained more of BoE best qualities: BoE scenarios still seem more flexible, feel more real, and leave the impression you really control developments in the game.

One feature I sorely missed in BoA was the ability to actually give any answer of my choice. I know this is rather an illusion - it takes the best of creators to predict most of the possible answers and come up with good and amusing dialogue (sometimes quite funny like ex. talking to kittens, dogs, etc!) I remember one time ( Gallows, I believe) it took me almost a week to figure out the correct response - or many other times I had to use a dictionary. BoA still hasn't been able to have me hooked that way.

BoE scenarios are (naturally) more mature and some (not even the best ones technically) have left me an unforgettable flavour (ex. the whole atmosphere of A Gathering Storm or the first impressions of day/night shifting in the Shadow of the Stranger etc...)

I'm not qualified enough to blame BoA shortcomings to the Editor, but I see BoA scenarios coming out more slowly, with less enthusiasm, and they might need too much time to reach BoE's stage of maturity (if ever)...

(If some of this sounds confusing, please excuse me - English in not my first language after all :) )

[ Sunday, May 29, 2005 05:20: Message edited by: Mervian ]
Posts: 84 | Registered: Saturday, January 26 2002 08:00
Master
Member # 4614
Profile Homepage #32
Yeah, and I think experience can be a big factor too. BoE has been out for a lot longer, more scenarios have been made, and there's just more knowledge present on how to manipulate the scenario editor, so to speak, to do what you want in your scenario.

I think as BoA gets older and more scenarios are made, they will continue to grow in quality to or even beyond the stage we see with BoE now, but it will take time. Just as it will take time also to associate up and to the right with north, but I also agree that those are definite limitations. However, for now, BoE is better.

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-ben4808
Posts: 3360 | Registered: Friday, June 25 2004 07:00
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I think we play these games for technical merit over graphical pleasure (there are better 2D and 3D graphics in a myraid of other games). On that point, BoE is more engaging as one feels more "immersed" in the world of Avernum. This may be partly the maturity of scenarios out there for BoE vs BoA, partly the criper graphics and/or better dialogue interactivity.

That being said, I played BoA first and still enjoy it as I am able to participate in its development (although not as a designer). I am curious to see what designers will do with the engine.

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"Dikiyoba ... is demon ... drives people mad and ... do all sorts of strange things."

"You Spiderwebbians are mad, mad, mad as March hares."
Posts: 687 | Registered: Wednesday, January 19 2005 08:00
Off With Their Heads
Member # 4045
Profile Homepage #34
quote:
Originally written by the fatman:

On that point, BoE is more engaging as one feels more "immersed" in the world of Avernum.
I don't. I wish people would stop generalizing.

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Arancaytar: Every time you ask people to compare TM and Kel, you endanger the poor, fluffy kittens.
Smoo: Get ready to face the walls!
Ephesos: In conclusion, yarr.

Kelandon's Pink and Pretty Page!!: the authorized location for all things by me
The Archive of all released BoE scenarios ever
Posts: 7968 | Registered: Saturday, February 28 2004 08:00
Infiltrator
Member # 5410
Profile #35
OK half-wit, read between the lines. Wait, you cannot do that, let me fill in what was implied.

quote:
On that point, BoE is more engaging (to me) as one feels more "immersed" in the world of Avernum.


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"Dikiyoba ... is demon ... drives people mad and ... do all sorts of strange things."

"You Spiderwebbians are mad, mad, mad as March hares."
Posts: 687 | Registered: Wednesday, January 19 2005 08:00
The Establishment
Member # 6
Profile #36
fatman - Please refrain from such impulsive comments. Failure to do so will result in action possibly up to the permanent suspension of your account.

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Your flower power is no match for my glower power!
Posts: 3726 | Registered: Tuesday, September 18 2001 07:00
E Equals MC What!!!!
Member # 5491
Profile Homepage #37
What, half-wit? That's taboo? TM regularly gets away with motherf***er.

I think he's pretty much right, besides. This is a thread where people explain why they prefer BoE. OF COURSE there are plenty who don't. We all realize this. They just aren't a subject of this discussion, and I see no need to refer to them. If he was generalizing by not allowing for people like Kel, so was Brett when he wrote the topic title.

Okay, fatman WAS a bit rude, but still.

[ Wednesday, June 01, 2005 15:27: Message edited by: Ash Lael ]

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SupaNik: Aran, you're not big enough to threaten Ash. Dammit, even JV had to think twice.
Posts: 1861 | Registered: Friday, February 11 2005 08:00
Off With Their Heads
Member # 4045
Profile Homepage #38
Take it as a comment about precision in language, then. Say, "I feel more engaged" rather than "one feels more engaged," if that's what you mean.

I wouldn't've said anything except that it seems to be pretty pervasive throughout this thread. At least try to be correct.

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Arancaytar: Every time you ask people to compare TM and Kel, you endanger the poor, fluffy kittens.
Smoo: Get ready to face the walls!
Ephesos: In conclusion, yarr.

Kelandon's Pink and Pretty Page!!: the authorized location for all things by me
The Archive of all released BoE scenarios ever
Posts: 7968 | Registered: Saturday, February 28 2004 08:00
E Equals MC What!!!!
Member # 5491
Profile Homepage #39
English is the wrong language to attempt to be precise in.

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SupaNik: Aran, you're not big enough to threaten Ash. Dammit, even JV had to think twice.
Posts: 1861 | Registered: Friday, February 11 2005 08:00
Shock Trooper
Member # 2626
Profile #40
Numerous comments have been made over time about and to individuals expressions in linguistic lunacy. Any more would only add fuel to the fire.
The Moderator's interjection was not only proper, but appreciated by, I feel reasonably sure, the majority of us.
There are numerous alternative platforms that are more designed for exchanges between dissimilar perspectives.
These boards have held a mature and decent level of social behaviour and it is hoped that we can all keep on "playing nicely". :D
Posts: 257 | Registered: Wednesday, February 12 2003 08:00
Infiltrator
Member # 5410
Profile #41
Quotes from earlier posts:

they're all philistines who want to live out their Conan the Barbarian wet dreams.

I think we'd all appreciate it if you stayed away from Kel's privates.

What privates?

Then there is the always useful "go to hell" aimed directly at one individual and the ever descriptive graphic ^o^

None of these merit aeven a raised eyebrow yet "half-wit" does? Perhaps no-wit would be better? Or maybe I should of used a sexual slang (as from above it appears that is A-OK)?

Really children, grow up. It was so obviously a slur against Kel that no credit should have been given to the comment. ALos, if you note from earlier posts, I actually have a high regard for the individual, at least as it extends to the type of scenarios created.

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"Dikiyoba ... is demon ... drives people mad and ... do all sorts of strange things."

"You Spiderwebbians are mad, mad, mad as March hares."
Posts: 687 | Registered: Wednesday, January 19 2005 08:00
Off With Their Heads
Member # 4045
Profile Homepage #42
You have been warned by an admin. Saying to Stareye, "Really children, grow up," is not recommended.

[ Thursday, June 02, 2005 09:19: Message edited by: Thurylandon ]

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Arancaytar: Every time you ask people to compare TM and Kel, you endanger the poor, fluffy kittens.
Smoo: Get ready to face the walls!
Ephesos: In conclusion, yarr.

Kelandon's Pink and Pretty Page!!: the authorized location for all things by me
The Archive of all released BoE scenarios ever
Posts: 7968 | Registered: Saturday, February 28 2004 08:00
Infiltrator
Member # 5410
Profile #43
So, I take that priviledged few are allowed to make sexual innuendo, denigrate others or call into question the character of another.

Is it because of my relative few posts that I am being singled out for rudeness? Or, (heaven forbid) is there a movement to create a greater level of propriety on the boards - will I see others called to task for comments similar to the ones I cited in my earlier post?

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"Dikiyoba ... is demon ... drives people mad and ... do all sorts of strange things."

"You Spiderwebbians are mad, mad, mad as March hares."
Posts: 687 | Registered: Wednesday, January 19 2005 08:00
Infiltrator
Member # 5410
Profile #44
Here are more recent comments that did not merit warnings:

quote:
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Originally written by Hawk King:
if you meant I should have had the sense not to say I support bush because people who do not like him would rate me bad I knew perfectly well that would happen when I posted. And I really don't care
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No, I meant that people with sense don't support Bush, so in essence or a sense, I was supporting the other camp. Savvy?
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Well, at least not all Americans are stupid then.

"What crack are you smoking?!?!"

I like your logic, Mr. Goebbels.

So, in the first comment there is an implication the Bush supporters have no sense, the second comment advocates that some Americans are stupid, the third comment addresses lunacy in the form of mind-altering drugs and the fourth comment calls another person a Nazi of the worst sort (are there any good Nazi's).

I would suggest that "half-wit" and "children" are mild admonishments campared to the above - OK, perhaps not the first comment, it seems on par with the tone of my two earlier statements.

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"Dikiyoba ... is demon ... drives people mad and ... do all sorts of strange things."

"You Spiderwebbians are mad, mad, mad as March hares."
Posts: 687 | Registered: Wednesday, January 19 2005 08:00
Shock Trooper
Member # 4445
Profile #45
Not post count. Scenario count. 'Tis a meritocracy; get used to it.
Posts: 293 | Registered: Saturday, May 29 2004 07:00
E Equals MC What!!!!
Member # 5491
Profile Homepage #46
I wish it wasn't. I would really like to see some measure of fairness applied. There is no good reason for some senior members to get away with what they do without so much as a tut-tut and fatman to be threatened with banning for calling someone a half-wit.

Seriously, how can any admin or mod expect a new member to follow the rules when many of the most prominent posters don't?

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SupaNik: Aran, you're not big enough to threaten Ash. Dammit, even JV had to think twice.
Posts: 1861 | Registered: Friday, February 11 2005 08:00
The Establishment
Member # 6
Profile #47
This is neither the time nor place for such discussions. As far as universal enforcement, I hate to say this, but I am unable to read every single post on this board. I largely skim the topics for things that are blatantly offensive and out of total context.

fatman -- This is your final warning. Discussions on this board are to be related to BoE, not discussions of board policy. Feel free to carry said discussions on the General board.

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Your flower power is no match for my glower power!
Posts: 3726 | Registered: Tuesday, September 18 2001 07:00
Shock Trooper
Member # 1207
Profile #48
I prefer BoA really, at least atm. I haven't played BoE in a long time though. Having played BoA it's quite difficult to get back into BoE because I'm so used to the 3D-ness and things like that. Sometimes I press 9 instead of 8 to go north, as well, and similarly indeed in the BoA editor with the 2D-ness.
My sister hates BoA, though, cos she's been playing BoE a bit (not as much as me playing A3 and BoA though!). A good point as well; I'm partly so used to it because I recently played through A3 and completed it....
Maybe it's the new feeling of BoA. I do remember finding it sometimes difficult to start a new BoE game, perhaps because there are so many scenarios out there. I don't know. I'm going to shut up now... :D
Posts: 316 | Registered: Saturday, May 25 2002 07:00
Warrior
Member # 43
Profile #49
I think that, speaking for myself, I enjoy those BoE scenarios that I do like because of the story, not the graphics. Plus I like the 6 person party (more places to carry stuff).

In addition, I'm a semi-Luddite at heart. ;)
Posts: 145 | Registered: Wednesday, October 3 2001 07:00

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