Challenging Nethergate "Role-Play" Character Builds

AuthorTopic: Challenging Nethergate "Role-Play" Character Builds
Warrior
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I've read some people going for "singleton" campaigns, but I like my challenges to be in flavor with the setting, so I'll throw out some challenging builds and see what you guys think.

The idea is to avoid investing only in the commonly agreed upon "best stats". Also a challenge will be to resist the temptation as the characters level up, to add points to the typical "best" stats, and keep focusing on the "role-play" stats. A point added here or there, for something like Armor Use as the game progesses is allowed.

The point is, like a single-character campaign, to focus character builds on a commonly agreed on "weaker" (but not impossible to play) skill focus.

Since Nethergate does not have classes, we can make our own. Here are a few examples I came up with:

Hippocrates, Roman Medic. Focus on First Aid and Herbcraft. A decent slinger to back up the team. Hardy and healthy (toughness/good health) from taking good care of his own body and drinking herbal supplements - ha). I would probably sacrifice a point of Dex. and add a point of Intelligence to the screen shot below, since as a "doctor" he should be well learned and this would help with some of the other things tied to Intelligence, like item lore and rune reading.

IMAGE(http://img48.imageshack.us/img48/9241/hippcrateshg6.jpg)

Antaeus, Roman Wrestler. Focus on Strength, Endurance, Hardiness, Defense. Some points (about half of what is put in hardiness/defense) in Roman Training, melee weapons. Mighty Warrior and Toughness traits. Idea is to have a "tank" character who isn't the best at landing blows but absorbs a lot of pain even when circumstances deprive him of armor.

For the Celts:

Perhaps some kind of Faerie-Focused Female character with Druid spells appropriate and Faerie Blood/Faerie Familiar Traits.

Or a Celtic Beastmaster, who is a warrior first with the Beastmaster trait but dabbles in Druid Skills for summoning purposes.

Any other ideas?

[ Tuesday, September 04, 2007 11:05: Message edited by: Ming ]
Posts: 102 | Registered: Monday, September 3 2007 07:00
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It occurred to me that this is where the Rational Mind "bug" really is a stinker - in Hippocrates' build - Western science over spirituality. But unfortunately the Rational Mind skill seems to work against ALL items, and that would include first aid kits if it includes torches, no? :(

[ Tuesday, September 04, 2007 16:08: Message edited by: Ming ]
Posts: 102 | Registered: Monday, September 3 2007 07:00
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Nope. Rational mind just prevents you from using items. First aids kits just provide a bonus to your first aid skill.

Dikiyoba.

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Episode 4: Spiderweb Reloaded
Posts: 4346 | Registered: Friday, December 23 2005 08:00
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But apart from that, it would definitely interfere in a lot of items, especially potions, and since you want Hippocrates here to focus on potions...

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Well that signature was out of date, since I've not been here in forever.
Posts: 91 | Registered: Thursday, January 19 2006 08:00
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So you could do Rational Mind, just stay away from the potions, but I had him cut out as a kind of strong medic with some apothecary skills.

I guess it depends on what the game designer thinks of potions. Are they "magic"? Or could they be considered herbal remedies / medicines / supplements with near-magical efficacy? Or to take that one step further, the components themselves have "magical" qualities, but the art of brewing the potions could be considered strictly scientific?

If its just "magic", then Hippocrates should put those herbal points into more First Aid.

[ Tuesday, September 04, 2007 19:15: Message edited by: Ming ]
Posts: 102 | Registered: Monday, September 3 2007 07:00
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quote:
Originally written by Ming:

Obviously the torch, candle, etc. examples of Rational Mind not working don't make sense, but I'm guessing there's no easy way to program around that, and in reality you only need one person holding a torch.
There is a way that's fairly simple programming-wise; it'd just require setting a flag (magical/non-magical) for each usable item. Easy enough to do if you plan it in advance, but a nuisance to go back and add to all the items after the fact, especially if it's just for the sake of making torches work.

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Posts: 9973 | Registered: Saturday, March 30 2002 08:00
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I suppose such a flag could be defaulted to 'magical' and just added for the torches, though.
Posts: 76 | Registered: Saturday, August 16 2003 07:00
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It could be as simple as adding one conditional statement to the code - checking item number(s) (170/171/172 = candle/torch/lamp) or, better yet, item ability (#210 for those items) and allowing use if it's a match.
In case of flag proposed by Thuryl, it's not like it would be necessary to add a new entry to item definition data. It could be a hardcoded array of bytes, each representing an item. So again, as simple as one conditional statement and one array.

That "nuisance" would take five minutes to do.
Seriously, if I can do it in assembly, there's no excuse for someone with source code. :P

[ Wednesday, September 05, 2007 02:57: Message edited by: heal plz ]
Posts: 18 | Registered: Friday, August 10 2007 07:00
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Ouch - after playing I ran into the limitations of First Aid:

1. Cannot be used during combat
2. Can only be used 3 times per day on a character

While it is effective when used after combat, and at higher levels will clear other afflictions, you can't hope to rely on it like the heal spell.

So....keeping Hippocrates "playable"

Hippocrates - Roman Medic / Apothecary

IMAGE(http://img406.imageshack.us/img406/6955/untitlednv7.jpg)

Party tweaked:

1. All-around Centurion (Primary Spear / pole arm use with some basic melee - backup Roman short sword - some Javelin for when distance can't be closed) - Your only real "normal" character, but aside from Spear focus he should spread points amongst every Melee Skill except slings, and every attribute except intelligence, even if you would not. Consider him triathlon man.

2. Anateus (see first post)

3. Hippocrates (see above, replaces Javelin focused pre-created character as a decent Slinger)

4. Druid-wannabe Roman - as in the pre-created, focus on WAR spells, Hippocrates is supposed to supply potions and first aid for most of the healing. Druid provides some back up healing if potions run out or inventory is stripped from characters (no herbs, potions or first aid kits...it could happen) - But will always try to put x2 points into War over Healing.

NO ONE BUT HIPPOCRATES CAN HAVE RATIONAL MIND...will make relying on Hippocrates' potions during battle impossible.

[ Wednesday, September 05, 2007 08:59: Message edited by: Ming ]
Posts: 102 | Registered: Monday, September 3 2007 07:00
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First aid should be bought from the trainer to level 5. It works better later in the game where you can use it for regaining larger amounts of health and spell energy.

For the starting area, it's better to just return to the Fort to rest up.
Posts: 4643 | Registered: Friday, February 10 2006 08:00
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Anyone else have a couple of "different" stats or even special traits that they hyper-focus on to make a type of character that might not be immediately obvious as "playable" (read: challenging)?

How about a Celt Berserker --- unlike Blades of Avernum that has a Berserker class but no such Weaponry skill, I noticed you could really make one via the Berserker skill. Heavy focus on that skill to the detriment of others --- how would that turn out? Maybe Mighty Warrior trait on top of it?

[ Saturday, September 08, 2007 05:15: Message edited by: Ming ]
Posts: 102 | Registered: Monday, September 3 2007 07:00
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Celt Beserker is the equivalent of Roman Training. Ups your damage and assures that you will always get hit. Actually at high levels after the demo, you are going to usally get hit anyway. Jeff did reduce its effectiveness from the original game.
Posts: 4643 | Registered: Friday, February 10 2006 08:00
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quote:
Originally written by Randomizer:

Celt Beserker is the equivalent of Roman Training. Ups your damage and assures that you will always get hit.
Are you sure about that? :rolleyes:
Posts: 18 | Registered: Friday, August 10 2007 07:00
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quote:
Originally written by Vagabond:

quote:
Originally written by Randomizer:

Celt Beserker is the equivalent of Roman Training. Ups your damage and assures that you will always get hit.
Are you sure about that? :rolleyes:

That's no typo. Every point of Berserker skill you take lowers your ability to avoid attacks.

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The Empire Always Loses: This Time For Sure!
Posts: 9973 | Registered: Saturday, March 30 2002 08:00
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quote:
Originally written by Thuryl:

Every point of Berserker skill you take lowers your ability to avoid attacks.
As in, gives the attacker better % chance to hit you?
Isn't it weird then, that log window shows no hints of such penalty? Tohit percentages are the same no matter how many pts of Berserker someone has. It's pretty damn easy and quick to test this too - summon monster, save the game, hit it once and let it attack you. Then reload, change Berserker skill with character editor and repeat.
Skill description doesn't say anything about lowering defense either (not that it's definite proof by itself - there's plenty misinformation in other descriptions, but still, in this case observations support what it says - increases your damage and gives mental resistance, and that's about it).
So, are you really sure about that? :P
Not that it matters much, because as it was mentioned, most enemies have max chance to hit you anyway, especially on higher difficulty settings. Just busting some myths.

In my experience raising Berserker skill for your melee guys is a nobrainer, and it's as "playable" as it can be. It increases melee damage like Strength - twice more than weapon type skills or Roman training - and it's cheap. It doesn't do much else, as the mental resistance seems to be pretty much useless in this game, but what it does is useful, considering that doing damage is the most important thing in the game.
Posts: 18 | Registered: Friday, August 10 2007 07:00
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quote:

In my experience raising Berserker skill for your melee guys is a nobrainer, and it's as "playable" as it can be. It increases melee damage like Strength - twice more than weapon type skills or Roman training - and it's cheap. [/QB]
I don't doubt that at all, especially for a more rounded character. I was thinking more along the lines of an almost dangerous focus on Berserker (and maybe one other like Endurance) to the detriment of other abilities/skills like Melee Weapons, or in lieu of where you might put your points into a more generic fighter - in things like Strength or Dexterity.

But the way you put it, it certainly seems playable.
Posts: 102 | Registered: Monday, September 3 2007 07:00
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quote:
Originally written by Vagabond:

So, are you really sure about that? :P
I know it increased enemies' chance to hit you in the original Nethergate; I haven't actually tested it in Resurrection, so it's possible that it was changed.

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The Empire Always Loses: This Time For Sure!
Posts: 9973 | Registered: Saturday, March 30 2002 08:00