A Developer Question

AuthorTopic: A Developer Question
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As I'm working on the Windows version of Geneforge 4: Rebellion, I'm wondering about something. So I thought I'd ask.

How is the difficulty of the Fens of Aziraph? In particular, how is the Shaper Monarch fight? Were you able to win it in a reasonable amount of time, without resorting to trickery? (Like trapping him in a corner.)

Please only answer if you have actually played through the fight. Feedback on Normal difficulty is preferred. If you weren't on Normal, let me know what the difficulty was.

If there were any other non-optional fights (e.g. Moseh, Salassar) that crushed your spirit, I'd also be interested to know. But I'm mainl focused on Monarch, as he is the hardest non-optional opponent.

- Jeff Vogel

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Posts: 960 | Registered: Tuesday, September 18 2001 07:00
Shock Trooper
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Profile #1
I've played through twice so far, as a singleton Infiltrator and as a Lifecrafter. The Lifecrafter battle with Monarch was much easier for me but more than doable for the Infiltrator. Granted I played the second game as a lifecrafter who knew he had to spend enormous amounts of skill points on leadership and mechanics to make places like that easier. Ahem, but I digress...
As an Infiltrator, Monarchs pit and Matala were simply too frustrating for me. My lifecrafter made it through both pretty well though.

Jeff, thanks for a great game in the great Spiderweb tradition.

Edit: Yes I know Matala and the pits are optional. I just wanted to share my experience.

[ Friday, December 22, 2006 13:41: Message edited by: Klax ]
Posts: 201 | Registered: Tuesday, July 2 2002 07:00
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As a warrior I won by sheer luck. I must of tried 50 or more times. As a servile it was a walk in the park even on torment, while with the warrior I was at normal diffuculty level. I think its probably easy as every class except Warrior and maybe Shocktrooper.

The problem is the classes, not the opponents.
Posts: 626 | Registered: Monday, April 25 2005 07:00
Raven v. Writing Desk
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That's exaggerating the difference between the classes rather grotesquely. Your Servile build was probably tighter and more focused than your Warrior build.

Slarty vs. DeskDesk vs. SlartyTimeline of ErmarianG4 Strategy Central
Posts: 3560 | Registered: Wednesday, November 7 2001 08:00
Shock Trooper
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I was playing a lifecrafter on normal. I took the time, however, to try to clear out the upper fens before attempting to fight Monarch. As a result, I was higher level, and had two Drayks. I came in the backway, cleared out his appartments, turned of the defenses, and came out him from behind with my serviles out of the way. It was actually one of the easier fights in the fens.

Plaudite, amici, comedia finita est.
Posts: 344 | Registered: Friday, February 25 2005 08:00
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My Servile was split between Melee and Magic. My Warrior was Melee with only enough Magic Shaping to make a Wingbolt. The problem was, that without magic as armour, he had to wear armour, which is too heavy for the amount of encumbrence that strength releases.
Posts: 626 | Registered: Monday, April 25 2005 07:00
Shock Trooper
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I played on torment as a jack-of-all-trades servile who had decent creations and magic and only supplemented with his own somewhat weak attacks. He had an easy time, but that is because he went around and cleared the tunnels behind Monarch before he attacked. I think that if you have decent mechanics and support, this is an easy fight even on torment. What was annoying was getting to the place and the weird spawner remenicent of the one from G3.

"After I'm dead I'd rather have people ask why I have no monument than why I have one."
- Cato the Elder (234-149 BC)

"The mind, if it exists, is nothing but an unfortunate after effect of the brain process."

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Posts: 333 | Registered: Saturday, May 20 2006 07:00
Law Bringer
Member # 6785
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Since the beta testing I have gone through Monarch three times on torment.

A servile using mostly melee weapon skills has an easy time using missle attacks. If you go into melee with Monarch then you get slowed almost all the time and eventually lose even with essence shackles on Monarch.

A servile with battle magic as the primary attack and backed up by two channelers can sweep through with no difficulty. Firebolt will do 150+ damage and take out most creations. Searer is about 300 damage and cuts him down.

Shock trooper with a cryoa and two kyshakks can take him out with some difficulty if you get swarmed by summoned creations. Just watch your health.

The real challenge is Matala as a single character. I had to create a drakon to go with my servile battle mage to take out the summoned rotgroths. I had too much trouble by myself doing enough damage to force Matala to go into the next area.

Servile battle mage gives the stats going through my game.
Posts: 4643 | Registered: Friday, February 10 2006 08:00
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I use my deadly palette of cheats using the weapon the one that solves every combat the ultimate: DBUGKILL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[ Friday, December 22, 2006 23:06: Message edited by: opon mars ]

You can jump off a bridge, fire a gun in your mouth, drink poison,or going in to the tiger's pit but you will still end up dead it's a mater of time and how .
Posts: 312 | Registered: Sunday, November 26 2006 08:00
Member # 3327
Profile #9
I don't find Monarch to be particularly difficult as long as you do two things:

1. Find the baton
2. Don't use your main character to engage in melee with him.

Not finding the baton is irritating, but not fatal. It just means that the guys you recruit from the rebels are going to have a harder time fighting the rogues.

The 2nd point is more important... maybe a hint in the dialogues that Monarch is dificult to fight hand-to-hand.
Posts: 77 | Registered: Sunday, August 10 2003 07:00
Member # 6292
Profile #10
I've never found Monarch difficult with any PC type, and that may be because I armor them pretty well, except for Lifecrafters. I also find that only a smattering of creations come out to fight and are only mildly distracting rather than a real threat of any kind. I have played the last several games on Torment, which feels more like what I wish Normal would be.

The Fens have some more challenging moments with the four Serviles around the hatch, the room full of hatching betas and glaakhs, the poisoning thahds and the inferno worms. Monarch himself still seems really anti-climactic after all you go through to get to him. I expected to be swarmed by creations or something highly desperate and dramatic.


[ Saturday, December 23, 2006 10:57: Message edited by: 7Synergy7 ]

A4 ItemsA4 SingletonG4 ItemsG4 ForgingG4 Infiltrator NR Items The Lonely Celt
Posts: 2009 | Registered: Monday, September 12 2005 07:00
Law Bringer
Member # 335
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I agree with Synergy. As a lifecrafter (or anyone else surrounded with creations), Monarch really isn't that bad. His help dies too quickly to accumulate and become a problem, and he himself isn't too difficult. Without allies the battle is much harder just because there's no good way to keep hitting both him and his creations, but that's what the various allies for hire are for.

—Alorael, whose biggest problem with Monarch was fighting him right before and right after the big change to stunning in the betas. He's really a pushover if attacks stun him into immobility. When you actually have to kill him he's slightly harder.
Posts: 14579 | Registered: Saturday, December 1 2001 08:00
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On Torment he is impossible for a Warrior(for me atleast). I actually found the area outside very easy. The four serviles took only one attack and with a Wingbolt, it was very easy. The Inferno Worms died easily and the hatching chamber was easy to disarm for me. I only had to fight one Ur-glahk. As a servile the outer areas were even easier. It was simple to kill anything around there.
Posts: 626 | Registered: Monday, April 25 2005 07:00
Member # 2155
Profile #13
Was Monarch difficult? For me, yes. Infact, he was easily the most frustrating issue in the game. The final battle was worlds of easier, and that fact alone should tell you enough.

The Fens themselves are annoying and tedius; a general plus to the unfun catagory of the game, and Monarch himself is just too difficult an encounter for his position in the game. I'd seriously suggest lightening up on the number and quality of creations he spawns as well as his health points.

Razordisk Frisbee Golf
Posts: 168 | Registered: Saturday, October 26 2002 07:00
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Profile #14
I found that it makes a huge difference from where you enter Monarch's Realm. Sneaking up on him from behind, using the Mechanic's path, was always a hell of a lot easier than rushing in through the front door. It didn't make too much of a difference what PC class I was using, either. To me this encounter feels appropriate.
Posts: 183 | Registered: Sunday, March 19 2006 08:00
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You guys all get the control rod, right? I never find myself overwhelmed when I use that thing. In fact, I find the various creations coming to my aid even get in the way, sometimes.

You lose.
Posts: 2156 | Registered: Thursday, August 24 2006 07:00
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I don't suggest changing Monarch. He was simple on Torment for my servile. I found the final battle very easy though, even on Torment. That should be harder.
Posts: 626 | Registered: Monday, April 25 2005 07:00
Member # 5360
Profile #17
Definitely increase his armor. Nalyd could make him run in two turns with his Infiltrator-Drayk combo. And give him that annoying charm ray spell to use once in a while.

Nalyd would also get rid of the charm option for the control rod. Replace it with a "permanent stun".

May the fires of Undeath burn in your soul, and consume it.
Posts: 1636 | Registered: Wednesday, January 5 2005 08:00