The Insidious Infiltrator
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Law Bringer
Member # 6785
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written Sunday, December 10 2006 22:13
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I think I read that Jeff didn't like the missing class as a glass cannon. However since it is easy to add a little to endurance it isn't that weak and I ran an effective endurance 1 lifecrafter through the betas to near the end. Having an effective endurance of 4 with the gruesome charm gives plenty of health at the end with augmentation and essence armor. A few powerful creations and that class would have been even nastier than what we have now. Spells are deadly at the end. A mass madness with high spellcraft can turn most of your enemies into allies. Two aura of flames will destroy all the wingbolts on the screen. Two essence orbs will almost destroy war tralls. With elemental cloak, steel skin, and protection (I think that is a 25% reduction in damage) you can withstand half a dozen kyshakks and most other attackers to finish them in the next round. Posts: 4643 | Registered: Friday, February 10 2006 08:00 |
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Shaper
Member # 6292
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written Sunday, December 10 2006 22:20
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Thanks for doing the math, Slarty. So, wait, you showed the product, but what is the formula for these armor totals, and how did you extrapolate that to how much damage is taken? I want to understand it enough to do my own calculations. I'm not sure I get how you mean that our Servile and Infiltrator are trying to be the same build. Both have the same two top strengths, yes, but in reverse order, of course. I'm focusing and relying more on magic with the Infiltrator, and when I played with a Servile, I focused more on being a tank who could take a lot of abuse and get into the thick of anything with melee. And both need to and can do both decently, to say the least. AND MEANWHILE... CHAPTER TWO: Part Six — Let’s Get Out Of Here Already There are just a couple more loose ends to tie up before wrapping up Chapter Two and moving on to the Burwood Province. First, back in the Dillame Fields, it is time to forcibly extricate the 31st Regiment from their comfortable camp.  Val slips in and takes out the three turrets first, each with one ice blast, dazes everyone else, and picks them all off one by one at leisure. It’s sickeningly easy, really. We came here to improve our reputation with the Rebels...and to help ourselves to the Spellcraft +1 canister hidden nearby. Look carefully!  Val returns to the Ilya Safehouse to report on Moseh, Eliza, and Shaftoe, and receive the MIndwarp Seal and Runed Jade Necklace for her trouble. She dons the necklace right away—another level of Spellcraft. We deliver our third Puresteel ring to Gibbons and improve our Group Heal with a newly-forged canister. Darnor is entirely unimpressed with our doings for the rebels, and says we don’t even deserve a hot dinner. We can’t argue with him there. We slip back upstairs in Southforge and kill the imprisoned Glaahk for its precious eye we will want to put to good use much later. It is very easy to dispatch with an Ice Spray and Firebolt. We put the Maddened Servile prisoner out of his misery while we are at it. Oh, and for good measure, we head south and take out the Glaahk and Alpha at the Shaper Camp. Venturing any further results in a few too many visitors with very nasty poison batons, and even nastier Rodhizons, so we’ll go no further just now.  We’re tough, but not nearly that tough yet. Even charming two of these soliders per turn isn’t enough to keep up with the inflow and damage delivered. We’ll come back here and the Sandros MIne later. Speaking of which, we pay a visit to the anvil and use a Runed Onyx from Eliza’s Bunker on our Claymore sword to give it slowing effect. And before we know it, we are heading north through the Western Rise with the papers General Alwan gave us. On to Chapter Three!    Val’s Gear (we’ve left some anvil ingredients at the anvil): Agent Cloak (+1 Battle Magic / +1 Mental Magic / +1 Blessing Magic / +1 Spellcraft) Shaped Breastplate Girdle of Genius (+2 Intelligence) Guardian Claymore (with Slowing enhancement) (+2 Strength / +2 Quick Action) Ring of Eye’s Purity (+3 Battle Magic / +3% Energy Preservation) Runed Jade Necklace (+1 Spellcraft) Clawbug Carapace (+1 Quick Action) Gloves of Savagery (with Damage Attacker enhancement) (+2 Strength / +2 Melee / +4 Quick Action) Lodestone Greaves (-1 Dex / +4 Levels Damage In Combat) Clover Boots (+3 Luck) Alternate Gear: Infiltrator’s Cloak (+1 Leadership / +1 Mechanics / +1 Stealth) Infiltrator’s Tunic (+1 Leadership / +1 Mechanics / +1 Stealth) Tinker Gloves (+2 Mechanics) Tinker Bauble (+1 Mechanics) Volcanic Fetish (+1 Battle Magic) Mindwarp Seal (+2 Mental Magic) BUILD STRATEGY: Boost Battle Magic and Mental Magic more for strong attacks and Dazing/Charming. Buy 2 levels of each Combat skill in Aziraph Rebel Camp, then add a few more levels of Quick Action. Possibly raise Missle Skills if we start missing with spells too much. Strength! Strength! Strength! Just kidding. I'm open to suggestions and other considerations if you think I'm neglecting something or making a mistake. QUESTION: +4 Levels Damage In Combat which the Lodestone Greaves are currently giving me..this would be like adding 4 to Melee or Missle Skills, yes? To be continued... -S- -------------------- A4 Items • A4 Singleton • G4 Items • G4 Forging • G4 Infiltrator • NR Items • The Lonely Celt Posts: 2009 | Registered: Monday, September 12 2005 07:00 |
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Electric Sheep One
Member # 3431
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written Sunday, December 10 2006 22:41
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This is the point I tried to make earlier, that simply comparing numbers can be very misleading because different builds play so differently. It's really more like comparing apples and oranges. It is indeed easy to conclude that Serviles make better Serviles than Infiltrators, and vice versa. This, though, is not the point. Add that to the fact that a small advantage is actually huge if it is sitting right at the game's challenge level. Killing everything with one shot, versus not quite killing anything, is a big difference, but it can be caused by a couple of points. In effect, those couple of points are worth mucho; but it's hard to tell in advance which two points they may be. Which of your points are the tipping points can even depend on where all your other points have been distributed. Whereas massive overkill is worth nothing, and pitiful failure is really no worse than just barely failing, and so many of your skill points may be practically wasted, despite giving good effects on paper. Then there are different definitions of optimality. Do you prefer a character who requires fewer save loads when aggressively pushing the envelope to attack enemies who aren't supposed to be takeable yet? Or is it more important to you to have an untouchable character who can stroll through the game according to schedule with no chance of dying at all? Do you mind if your build requires you to resort to tedious measures to defeat some opponents? Do you get upset if your creations die? Different answers to these questions make different builds better. I think the Infiltrator can be as good a build as any, though a different kind. In fact to me that is the real definition of how good a class is: does it make the game different without making it frustratingly hard? -------------------- We're not doing cool. We're doing pretty. Posts: 3335 | Registered: Thursday, September 4 2003 07:00 |
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Shaper
Member # 6292
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written Sunday, December 10 2006 23:08
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quote:Thanks, yeah, I'll be hiring those two, and the three Mechanics for a total Mechanics ability of 30, when I go through the Fens. It will continue to put to the test the solo Infiltrator as fighter (and caretaker) and the power of magic over anything else, because everyone else in the party will be worthless as a fighter...though those Servile Mechanics have surprisingly potent punches. I usually wind up taking on the Sandros Mine back area after wrapping Moseh, when I have a singleton. I had a very tough time beating the twins with my first Infiltrator, because Jeff hadn't corrected or placed spell descriptions, and I didn't realize that Essence Shackles was a slowing spell. I actually pulled if off after numerous attempts without it, though, barely. Bedtime. -S- EDIT: Very good points, and well said, SoT. And to clarify, if necessary, my assertion about the Infiltrator is not that it is the best class. What I am enjoying so much about GF4 is that it genuinely gives at least three great, varied choices how to play. I have enjoyed playing all of the classes (though I never played a Warrior game all the way through,) and especially the main three. My initial comment on the Infiltrator was that it was my experience that she was more capable, versatile, fun, satisfying, and potent in experience than the Servile was for me, and I attribute this to the benefits of stronger magic and more essence to do things with. It translates into many of the idiosyncratic things you allude to, such as how often you run out of essence in a fight, etc. [ Sunday, December 10, 2006 23:19: Message edited by: Synergy67 ] -------------------- A4 Items • A4 Singleton • G4 Items • G4 Forging • G4 Infiltrator • NR Items • The Lonely Celt Posts: 2009 | Registered: Monday, September 12 2005 07:00 |
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Apprentice
Member # 5672
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written Monday, December 11 2006 00:59
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Thanks. I am having a lot of fun reading this. I am not sure if it was mentioned, but I have found wrack to be a very useful spell. No exact numbers, but from general observation it seems that the damage increases about 1.5 times. Very nice when fighting 1-on-1, such as versus Eliza or Shaftoe. By the way, I do not remember how, but when playing the infiltrator the areas around Eliza and Shaftoe turned against me, while the two were still friendly. It was rather ironic that the glaahks and kyshaks (sorry if I mispelled these) sent by the minds to hunt me were actually slaughtered by Shaftoe while I rested around the corner delivering a final blow when I managed. Posts: 48 | Registered: Tuesday, April 5 2005 07:00 |
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Law Bringer
Member # 6785
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written Monday, December 11 2006 02:04
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quote:If I remember from my own experience they show up in melee weapons only on the statistics page. You can check quickly by taking the off and on again. Not too many items that help missle weapons except dexterity items like footgear and belts and the farsight plate reward. I'd go with spellcraft for increased damage and intelligence since later on in the game the powerful spells burn through spell energy even though you have plenty of essence available. I hated wasting an essence pod just to get one more mass madness or aura of flames. [ Monday, December 11, 2006 02:07: Message edited by: Randomizer ] Posts: 4643 | Registered: Friday, February 10 2006 08:00 |
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Raven v. Writing Desk
Member # 261
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written Monday, December 11 2006 06:21
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"+X Levels of damage" basically gives you the same damage bonus you would get from +X Melee Weapons, +X Missile Weapons, and +X Battle Magic, but not the to-hit bonus you would get for those +X's. As for the armor formula: there is no formula. As I have been saying repeatedly, it's just layered multiplication! If you wear one piece of 40% armor, you take 60% damage. If you wear one piece of 20% armor, you take 80% damage. If you wear both, you take 80% of 60% damage, which is 48% damage. The stat screen however will display 60% armor, which is totally and completely bogus. -------------------- Slarty vs. Desk • Desk vs. Slarty • Timeline of Ermarian • G4 Strategy Central Posts: 3560 | Registered: Wednesday, November 7 2001 08:00 |
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Electric Sheep One
Member # 3431
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written Monday, December 11 2006 12:05
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Not only is it bogus, it's ambiguous. The same sums of percentages can give different products. EDIT: This is not nearly as big an effect as I thought, once you have a few pieces of armor that add up to anything decent. So just adding them up is maybe not so crazy as a rule of thumb; just don't think of the total as a true percentage. It's just a sort of 'armor level', and it has a built-in soft cap effect. [ Monday, December 11, 2006 12:10: Message edited by: Student of Trinity ] -------------------- We're not doing cool. We're doing pretty. Posts: 3335 | Registered: Thursday, September 4 2003 07:00 |
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Shaper
Member # 6292
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written Monday, December 11 2006 16:52
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Random — the bonus from the Lodestone Greaves does not show up in the stats, which is why I wanted to be sure I understood what they imply they are doing. Eigen — Yes, Wrack has become one of my best friends, and Essence Shackles too once I get it. Mental Magic is so effective and so much fun. In any significant battle, once hasted, usually the first thing I do is Curse and Slow a challenging foe. I also just realized that the Runed Onyx crystal gives my sword Slowing power. That's a fairly useful enhancement to a sword if you ask me. ... To put the armor function into easy to understand terms, the first piece of armor blocks whatever percentage of damage that it is rated at. The second piece blocks its percentage rating of any remaining unblocked damage left over from the first. Let's say we have three pieces of random armor rated at 10% each. Armor 1 protects me from 10% of damage: I take 90 damage out of 100. So we have 90 damage still coming at us now. Armor 2 protects me from 10% of that 90 damage (since 10 of the original 100 has already been absorbed by Armor 1 and no longer "exists.") 10% of 90 = 9. So, Armor 2 protects me from 9 more of the total original damage, but that's 10% of the actual damage it gets hit with (so to speak.) Now we have 81 damage still hitting us. Armor 3 protects me from 10% of that 81, which = 8.1. I take 81 damage minus 8.1 damage = 73 damage. Actual Damage = .9 x .9 x .9 = .73 ( .27 is blocked.) Our actual armor rating is the difference of the actual damage from 100%. In the above case it is 100%-73% = 27% (not 30%.) It seems we have to calculate damage, not protection, in order to extrapolate armor protection. So, to put it purely conceptually, it means that each piece of armor blocks only its percentage of the total remaining damage left over from the other pieces of armor, and not its percentage of the total damage. I never really paid attention to thinking this system through back with A4 when Jeff first mentioned how he was going to do it. So I've processed it here finally to get a grip how it works and why the math works the way it does. I need to see some of this conceptual stuff in sentence form to get it sometimes, and I bet I'm not alone. If my chestplate blocks 50% of damage and my shield blocks 50% of damage, the shield will block 50% of the remaining 50% of damage I take after the chestplate does its job, for a total of 75% damage blocked. So, this suggests it is beneficial to have one piece of gear with a nice high percentage of protection, and the ratings of the lesser gear are much less important after your best one. It's better to have one chestplate blocking 60% damage and four other pieces of gear blocking 10% each (=26% damage getting through,) than five pieces of gear each blocking 20% (=33% damage getting through.) This might make an argument for being able to wear the most protective piece of body armor possible, but then being able to skimp on all the rest to much less detriment. To make this more dramatic, one piece of 90% armor plus one piece of 10% armor = 91% of damage blocked. Ten pieces of 10% armor block 65% of damage. Though, as it has been said, all this doesn't add up to all that huge a difference in actual application in the game, especially in the face of how often one simply takes physical damage in the first place. If I play one more game, I'll try minimizing the Infiltrator's Strength and garb and see how different it seems in actual combat, with even stronger magic to compensate. -S- [ Tuesday, December 12, 2006 11:13: Message edited by: Synergy67 ] -------------------- A4 Items • A4 Singleton • G4 Items • G4 Forging • G4 Infiltrator • NR Items • The Lonely Celt Posts: 2009 | Registered: Monday, September 12 2005 07:00 |
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Warrior
Member # 7735
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written Monday, December 11 2006 17:15
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quote:Magic/Shaping combo? Thats just unfair, unless they nerf just about everything about that character, and force you to play torment. I've heard that magic is the best for GF 4, and creations should be better than melee, if the damage multipliers are as messed as I've seen. Getting the best of both realms, plenty of essence and spell energy due to the insane increases in intelligence. It should force you be killed in one hit by just about everything. Frailer than any character class ever in the GF series, not that it would matter, because of your creations shield. [ Monday, December 11, 2006 17:17: Message edited by: GoodCanisters ] Posts: 107 | Registered: Monday, December 4 2006 08:00 |
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Warrior
Member # 7735
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written Monday, December 11 2006 17:18
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Sorry for the double post, thanks to Synergy for pointing it out. I was editing my old post, and many things went wrong, apparently. [ Monday, December 11, 2006 17:51: Message edited by: GoodCanisters ] Posts: 107 | Registered: Monday, December 4 2006 08:00 |
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Shaper
Member # 6292
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written Monday, December 11 2006 17:42
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When I was testing the beta looking through the five class types available, I was looking for a Magic/Shaper type and noticed it was the one missing. I had really wanted to play that character, realizing it would do exactly what I would most like a character to do with the way GF4 works. I do think it would be ridiculously powerful. It seems kind of stupid having the Lifecrafter be Shaper/Magic, when being a stronger Shaper than anything else really isn't hardly any advantage at all. It's like you can nearly ignore the Shaping placement in any build, and only go with the remaining trait or traits to determine the character's real strength Lifecrafter = medium magician with higher essence for magic and shaping. Infiltrator = strong magician/medium melee with decent essence for magic and shaping. Servile = strong melee/medium magician with so-so essence for magic and shaping. -S- P.S. — GoodCanisters, just delete all your text in the redundant post and say [accidental double-post.] Free up some pixels! [ Monday, December 11, 2006 17:49: Message edited by: Synergy67 ] -------------------- A4 Items • A4 Singleton • G4 Items • G4 Forging • G4 Infiltrator • NR Items • The Lonely Celt Posts: 2009 | Registered: Monday, September 12 2005 07:00 |
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Shaper
Member # 6292
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written Tuesday, December 12 2006 11:12
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CHAPTER THREE: Part One — Why Does It Always Rain When I Go Camping? So here we are in the Aziraph Shaper Camp Gamma in the heart of the fenland. We get quests from General Crowley and Miranda to rescue Khyryk and contact the Shaper spy Archibald in Rebel Camp Aziraph. We work on helping the refugee Mizerah with her undertandable wish to leave. We promise to help Zinser find his lost Serviles. We steal 60 coins worth of guarded loot and we steal everything not nailed down on the sly to sell it promptly back to Sergeant Sabrina...and, what the heck, raid her shop and lockers while we are at it. Shaper Danell takes pity on our muddy, corrupted, sorry self and grants us a boon of Spellcraft +1. It’s at 5 now, without having invested a single Skill Point into it yet.  We resist the tempting Slightly Expensive Spells and Shaping offered here for the moment. We can do better in Rebel Camp Aziraph on spell prices with a little errand-running. I will want Wingbolt Shaping eventually, but I want to exercise my cashflow elsewhere first.   Meanwhile, let’s run back to Ilya Province and pick up the rest of our stored goods and head up the Eastern Rise this time. We can pass with impunity on either route.  Ice Spray continues to do wonders at taking out a number of critters with one hit. But I still want more.  Here we find what happens, perhaps, when bored mines are left alone to breed uncontrollably. Getting through this cluster gives us two canisters.  We go mental on the bandit camp found inexplicably hiding behind all the field projectors.  And finally we arrive in more marshes...the Golem’s Fen. We scoot through for now, keeping to the east and scuttle on up to the Rebel Camp Aziraph. We get Greta’s parallel quests involving Khyryk and Monarch and get Jared’s quest to recover some supplies from his workshop. We buy a canister from him to Shape a Drayk...just in case I decide I want a pet at some point. Most importantly, we train with Archibald in all four combat skills. Eh, Parry isn’t that useful, but I will have no shortage of cash in this game. I can afford it. I’ll be turning him in to the Rebels as a Shaper spy before too long, so it’s best to take advantage of what he offers before anything else.  I don’t want to buy any magic spells until I have done Jared’s quest. We get Ellsworth’s quest to contact the Rebel spy Vecsey back in Camp Gamma. We kill some rats in the NW and sell the Polished Shield. It’s not so useful for this Infiltrator. OK, we’ve got LOTS to do now. Let’s get to it. -S- [ Tuesday, December 12, 2006 11:19: Message edited by: Synergy67 ] -------------------- A4 Items • A4 Singleton • G4 Items • G4 Forging • G4 Infiltrator • NR Items • The Lonely Celt Posts: 2009 | Registered: Monday, September 12 2005 07:00 |
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Shaper
Member # 6292
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written Tuesday, December 12 2006 15:00
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CHAPTER THREE: Part Two — Le Golem’s Fin Presently, Valeta is feeling insanely powerful. She sweeps around The Golem’s Fen taking out all the mines along with the encountered Clawbugs and Vlish who succumb all too readily to Daze and Ice and steel.  She careens boldly into the workshop at the center and deactivates the two power pylons around the Oozing Sentinel golem after dispatching a couple of spawned impediments outside the door.  Next turn, she runs down next to the Spawner and casts Wrack on the golem, who has not yet moved. Next round, she redlines the Spawner with two sword strokes. Quick Action of 10, with never investing any Skill Points into it yet, is paying off. The golem finally wakes up and runs down, slugging Val for more damage upon himself than Val. We dearly love our Spine Shield, plus the spines we affixed onto our already Savage Gloves. The first Spawned Worm chips off the Golem and we charm it with our wit and good looks. Subsequently, each turn the charmed worm kills the next worm to chip off the ol’ golem.  We hit the Golem two or three times till it crumbles. We mop up the remaining worms with Daze and a few close-up views of the soles of our boots. The charmed worm comes to its senses exactly at the moment nothing else remains alive. Too late. It is all over so quickly. We collect the Essence-Infused Iron the Spawner dropped, which we will be using later to make the Legs of the Tyrant, but those will have to wait until we can get to the Blood Poison tucked away in the Western Morass in Chapter Four, because we used the first available dose of Blood Poison to make our lovely, lethal gloves. We are happy enough with our choice. NEXT: Hey, How Come This Hole Below the Fen Isn’t Full of Water? -S- -------------------- A4 Items • A4 Singleton • G4 Items • G4 Forging • G4 Infiltrator • NR Items • The Lonely Celt Posts: 2009 | Registered: Monday, September 12 2005 07:00 |
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Shaper
Member # 6292
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written Tuesday, December 12 2006 15:13
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CHAPTER THREE: Part Three — Something Smells Down Here So, we’re feeling pretty cocky, but it’s time to put our mettle (and metal) to the test in the Wrecked Labs, now that the threat of the Golem’s Fen has been eliminated. I like the boggy, Willow-tree lined spiral path to the foreboding trap door. The piles of rock suggest illicit excavation here.  It’s been a long time since I ventured down into this creepy, abandoned place all alone. Val doesn’t spook easily, but this will be a slightly unnerving challenge. Or not. Let’s find out. I’m getting the chills just a little as I enter. We poke around a bit. Here comes the towering, lumbering Maddened Rotghroth. Totally freaked me out the first time I encountered it.  Our first attempt will be to stand and fight, as I just acquired Essence Shackles from the canister in the golem’s workshop. We curse and slow the rotghroth. It does nothing its next turn and Val unleashes 153 points of magical damage from her first dose of Lightning Aura. A tiny amount of the white line below the rot retreats. Rut-roh, Raggy. This thing’s tough, all right. 147 points of damage with her second jolt. Now we get the dialog box that the rot has emerged and we have a powerful urge to flee. That’s not entirely untrue, but the rot just stands there again and roars a challenge.  Two more rounds of Lightning Aura are doing very noticeable cumulative damage by now. The rot takes 66 damage from the after-effect in between turns...and it still just stands there dying from a distance.  The fifth Lightning hit on the rot redlines him. Your fetid bony behind is toast now! But wait, we MISS our next attack. We may need some more missle skill, and meanwhile, we might take some damage yet. But the rot just stands there taking another 66 points of lingering magical damage. And again, the maddened rotghroth roars a challenge. Some challenge. Slow ‘N’ Stinky seems to have failed to notice the challenges I have been roaring at him all along to the tune of 300 HP per turn. To drive our point home, we run up and confidently deliver the lethal blow by swordpoint. Pee-yew. We shouldn’t have done that. It will take a week to remove this stench. How the mighty have fallen. “He who hesitates is lost.” Thank you Essence Shackles. This rot fang will come in handy toward making a Talisman of Might and three Mental Focus Charms later on. Rot-brain also drops one of those nearly worthless Radiance-bane items which promptly go to coin. This is just too easy. Let’s go on a leisurely stroll through the labs now, shall we? We switch four pieces of gear to make us as convincing and tinkery as possible. The Burning Turrets submit to Val’s irresistibly lulling presence, which doesn’t stop her from casually dispatching them one by one. Oh, now that was funny. The first turret was tougher than expected. When Val failed to chop and blast it into oblivion in one turn, the other two friendly turrets turned on their injured mate and acided it out of existence. Thanks guys, but I wanted those XP! Oh, nevermind. There are no XP to be had at this point. The third turret helps me take out the second. It is up to me alone to take out the third. Two blasts of Ice Spray aren’t quite sufficient. We’ll be boosting Battle Magic further yet. Two sword strokes put the Rogue Drayk out of its misery. We continue to loot with leisure. We have 53 Living Tools. Shall we use one to open this door? Wellllll....okayyyyy. Three more turrets we have cajoled. Let’s swap out some gear this time and add in the additional point in Spellcraft we just picked up with Crystal-Woven Chain we found, and see if this enables our Ice Spray to dispatch a turret in two hits. Hmm, it works one time, not quite the other. We take a bit of nasty acid damage but are soon healed up nicely enough. There are no more foes to face down here. Just some more “shopping” to finish. We pass a lovely patch of living health and essence plants, but we really don’t need their services at all. As we open the locker that contains Purified Essence, we gain a level to bring us to 31. What shall we spend our SP on, my Precious? Spellcraft and Battle Magic both cost 4 at the moment. This is a no-brainer. We take some tolerable damage getting past mines to the Mass Energize canister. Normally a great boon, this isn’t at all useful to us at the moment, but we, the canister-crazed, are ever happy to indulge. We emerge into the final room of the lab on our circuit through. We repair the pylons, which does nothing for us at this point, but just in case there’s another rotting guest lurking under a pile of rocks somewhere, we might as well get them going again. We’re thoughtful like that when we get the chance. We also, much more usefully, help ourselves to our second dose of Create Drayk, conveniently waiting here for us in another entrancingly glowing green canister. One more of these, and we’ll have Cryodrayks at our beck and call. We are very ice-friendly. Valeta’s father, Prince Valiant, originated from the somewhat frigid realms of Thule, after all. Ice runs in her blood.  Because we prudently left some 24 spaces free in our inventory after killing the disappointly unchallenging rot, we managed to drag everything out to the stairway in one trip. But it wlll take two trips to haul all our loot out of here entirely. We got all kinds of useful and lucrative stuff down here, but four items are reserved for Jared, because it will be far more profitable to surrender them to him.  By the way...I seem to do this every time I’m down here. I miss the three boxes in this room here. Be sure not to overlook the three chests on the west wall. One of them contains the gold bar you’ll be wanting.  Interesting. A second attempt at the rot—just for fun—reaps the exact same results! My sixth hit with Lightning Aura misses, and a seventh hit with pretty much anything kills it. Again it roars two challenges, but never gets the chance to attack when first hampered with Wrack and Essence Shackles. So, Val decides to try out the Crystal-Woven Chain for a while for its boost to Spellcraft, and see if she notices any ill effect to her survival rate due to lessened armor. She slinks happily back to the rebel camp to bring Jared his requested items...even if we are just a little irritated to surrender the rather precious Demon Bile in particular. The Singing Rapier reward Jared gives us is decent for its bonus to QA and Parry, but it pales pathetically to what the Claymore already offers us. Valeta’s Father owned a blade called The Singing Sword. Oh, now we’re talking. Look at what else our little errand to the Wrecked Labs earned us:  We glut ourselves on all the spells we can stomach and have a piddling 3500 coins left. I believe there are a few even tastier spells available to us only from Danell down in the Shaper Camp Gamma. We’ll be wanting those too. And the ability to summon Wingbolts. Time to head out for some more "find, kill, loot,and repeat." NEXT: Monarch Better Fly -S- [ Tuesday, December 12, 2006 15:16: Message edited by: Synergy67 ] -------------------- A4 Items • A4 Singleton • G4 Items • G4 Forging • G4 Infiltrator • NR Items • The Lonely Celt Posts: 2009 | Registered: Monday, September 12 2005 07:00 |
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Shaper
Member # 247
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written Wednesday, December 13 2006 22:23
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Awh, you missed all the fun of running through the lab and every step being followed by the Roth. I really enjoyed running through all the areas watching the mines go off and such. Then the final pylons what a relief that was to see them. -------------------- The Knight Between Posts. Posts: 2395 | Registered: Friday, November 2 2001 08:00 |
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FAQSELF
Member # 3
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written Thursday, December 14 2006 10:04
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quote:It's easy to miss the explanation for the bandit camp- check the nearby chest for a second agate. Apparently they stole it from someone. -------------------- A few cats short of a kitten pot pie... Radioactive cats have 18 half-lives. Check out a great source for information on Avernum 2, Nethergate, and Subterra: Zeviz's page. Finally, there's my Geneforge FAQ, Geneforge 2 FAQ, and Geneforge 3 FAQ. Posts: 2831 | Registered: Tuesday, September 18 2001 07:00 |
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Electric Sheep One
Member # 3431
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written Thursday, December 14 2006 13:40
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Jeff didn't explain everything I think he should have in G4, but he was pretty good about explaining a lot of things. -------------------- We're not doing cool. We're doing pretty. Posts: 3335 | Registered: Thursday, September 4 2003 07:00 |
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Shaper
Member # 6292
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written Thursday, December 14 2006 18:47
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quote:Oh, yeah, I don't always notice that box, though now that you mention it, I remember finding that agate before. -S- [ Thursday, December 14, 2006 18:47: Message edited by: -S- ] -------------------- A4 Items • A4 Singleton • G4 Items • G4 Forging • G4 Infiltrator • NR Items • The Lonely Celt Posts: 2009 | Registered: Monday, September 12 2005 07:00 |
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Shaper
Member # 6292
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written Wednesday, December 20 2006 18:42
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Valeta No. 1, hereafter known as Valeta Purple is cooling her heels after her encounter with the rotghroth. Meanwhile, I have been experimenting with her light blue twin sister Valeta. Valeta Blue has just mopped up Chapter One. Valeta Blue was curious to find out what would happen if she focused heavily on Battle Magic and did not touch whole entire other categories of skills unlike her purple twin. I gave her 8 Mechanics and 5 Leadership at the start, touching nothing else. With this kind of Mechanical ability off the bat, she used less Living Tools than ever, which means more money for other stuff all through the game. After that, I started pumping Battle Magic and got Leadership to 6 to get Spellcraft and Augmentation from Burkes. She's following the same strategy/reputation route as Valeta Purple. At the end of Chapter One, she wound up with the following stats. I added one Spellcraft after Burkes. All else has been Magic skills, Mechanics and Leadership. She has felt pretty vulnerable, but workable. She feels more like the glass cannon a Lifecrafter tends to be. She died a lot more often if she took a hit. Her magic is notably more useful — even fireball has a decent punch. Searer has been doing a good job of taking out most normal critters with one strike at this point except for Spinecores and Plated Artilas. Now we have Ice Spray and we are about to become much more powerful in Chapter Two. Ice Spray is way chill.  A bit of gold and XP listed here were from doing much of the Eastern Checkpoint zone before remembering to stop and take stats, but not enough to have changed a level.  Stats affected by gear: Carnelian Gloves: Battle Magic +1 Girdle of Insight: Intelligence +1 Lucky Dice: Luck +1 I will post another report on Valeta Blue here after Chapter Two. If I am pleased with the results of this fiercely aggressive, but fairly wimpily defensive version of the Infiltrator, I will continue on with Valeta Blue instead of Valeta Purple. -S- -------------------- A4 Items • A4 Singleton • G4 Items • G4 Forging • G4 Infiltrator • NR Items • The Lonely Celt Posts: 2009 | Registered: Monday, September 12 2005 07:00 |
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Shaper
Member # 6292
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written Sunday, December 24 2006 17:21
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At the end of Chapter 2, Valeta Blue still feels wimpy and difficult to defend if she really gets into the thick of it. While Daze and Dominate work well much of the time, it is not hard to kill her, even all buffed up. Her magic is quite punchy, but not overwhelming. There are still numerous foes who take two hits of Ice Spray, Searer, or Lightning Aura to crumple. Clawbugs, Vlish, Rats, etc. are easy to wipe out with one dose of Fireball hitting at up to 120 per shot. I did note that killing Shaftoe, his three minds, and Eliza felt easier and faster this time. I made a couple runs on the Shaper Camp near Southforge and killed a few soldiers and a wizard, before giving up to come back later when I'm stronger. I made the stealth run on the Turabi Gate to make the Gloves of Savagery. I'm killing and cleaning out everything appropriate, as usual. I am focusing heavily on Battle Magic and to a lesser degree, Mental Magic—or Spellcraft when it's been cheaper. I have added no combat stats or Strength. I added one level of Intelligence. Even with the Gloves of Savagery and Guardian Claymore, I still can't wear very heavy armor, and that's the one difference I can really feel defensively in this build. I look forward to some more Strength to wear a good breastplate eventually. This +14 Spidersilk Robe isn't cutting it too well for survivability as a singleton in dicey situations. I'll be switching out to the Fibrous Breastplate once I beat the Golem in the Golem's Fen.  Gear affecting Stats: Agent Cloak: +1 all three magics / +1 Spellcraft Girdle of Genius: +2 Intelligence Guardian Claymore: +2 Strength /+2 Quick Action Ring of Eye's Purity: +3 Battle Magic Runed Jade Necklace: +1 Spellcraft Clawbug Carapace: +1 Quick Action Gloves of Savagery: +2 Strength / +2 Quick Action / +4 Melee Lodestone Greaves: -1 Dexterity Nimble Sandals: +2 Dexterity Lucky Charm: +1 Luck Physician's Charm: +1 Healing Craft Skein of Wisdom: +1 Intelligence Gruesome Charm: -2 Endurance / +2 Intelligence / +2 Dexterity  Soon I will be caught up to Valeta Purple. I will probably continue with Valeta Blue. -S- [ Sunday, December 24, 2006 18:32: Message edited by: 7Synergy7 ] -------------------- A4 Items • A4 Singleton • G4 Items • G4 Forging • G4 Infiltrator • NR Items • The Lonely Celt Posts: 2009 | Registered: Monday, September 12 2005 07:00 |
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Law Bringer
Member # 6785
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written Sunday, December 24 2006 18:47
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You might be able to do the rest of Sandros Mines after getting all the spells from the two camps in the Fens. The Shapers trueweave is a little better armor without the weight of the better armors. You'll probably need a kyshakk for the old golem to suck up damage but it should be doable. Posts: 4643 | Registered: Friday, February 10 2006 08:00 |
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Shaper
Member # 6292
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written Sunday, December 24 2006 21:45
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As it happens, I'm working on the four challenges in the Sandros Mine right now, having finished all of Chapter Three. The Imprisoned Soul was a piece of cake. Kill did 410 damage to him. It took two or three hits to kill him. The Soulreaper Twins were kind of a pain. I was set on doing them solo, and it took about five or six attempts getting Essence Shackles to properly slow both of them, so I had a chance to whittle them down simultaneously with Essence Orbs. Regenerate was Val's salvation here. It took about four or five hits with Essence Orbs to finish them, and one more round would have finished me. I was redlined. The Golem...meh, I tried a couple times solo, but I don't think there's any way. He hastes himself so readily, even slowed. I will need a meat shield like a Kyshakk. I'll finish the mine and then post some end stats and descriptors for Chapter Three. -S- -------------------- A4 Items • A4 Singleton • G4 Items • G4 Forging • G4 Infiltrator • NR Items • The Lonely Celt Posts: 2009 | Registered: Monday, September 12 2005 07:00 |
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Law Bringer
Member # 6785
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written Sunday, December 24 2006 22:20
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The Soul twins were the only use I every really had for swarm crystals instead of using essence orbs. The old golem I have only fought as a single character using a servile with all the buffs and some extra endurance to have the 400+ health to survive at the end. I had to spine shield myself and after the second golem form I think all I cast was major heal, major healing pod, major heal. He made the Forgotten one look easy. Posts: 4643 | Registered: Friday, February 10 2006 08:00 |
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Shaper
Member # 6292
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written Tuesday, January 9 2007 22:52
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I've gotten busy, but still plan to finish this game. Due to having played last over a week ago, I'm not recalling all the noteworthy details for this segment I might have otherwise. Val Blue has finished Chapter Three competently enough. She had no problem taking out Monarch or the Spawner, due to her ferocious magic capabilities. I have been investing almost exclusively magic into her for quite a while now, except for the bought battle skills in Rebel Camp Aziraph. Check out her ridiculous Battle Magic ability and Spellcraft. Fireball, Searer, and Ice Spray continue to pack plenty wallop. Killing the Maddened Rotghroth (again) in the Wrecked Lab was really almost too easy. It never had a chance to do much before a few hasted rounds of Lightning Aura cooked it. She's not especially useful in melee (mainly due to magic just being all the more potent by contrast,) but can put it to decent use when necessary or when it delivers a death blow without expending spell energy. At the end of Chapter Three, Val went back to the Sandros Mine and took out the rest of the baddies. The only tough one was the Golem. She took one Kyshakk in tow to do the last two challenges. She and the Kyshakk were able to do so much damage to the Golem in at least one round, that it crumbled down two forms on the next turn. I still haven't invested Strength, so she's wearing Shaper Trueweave mostly, though I have some plate armor in case of emergency—haven't used it yet though. I am planning on focusing on making magic as insanely powerful as possible and seeing how this works. She's become, not a magically gifted swordfighter, as my initial Infilitrator runs exploited, but a fearsome magician who has some decent defense and offense ability as a backup. Note also that Val only gained four levels in Chapter Three after nearly four times that much each in Chapters One and Two. She did everything possible according to the optimizing path. There's just not as much to do in Chapter Three for gaining XP. She didn't dawdle in the fens racking up extra kill points.   Val’s Gear: Agent Cloak (+1 Battle Magic / +1 Mental Magic / +1 Blessing Magic / +1 Spellcraft) Shaper Trueweave Girdle of Genius (+2 Intelligence) Guardian Claymore (with Slowing enhancement) (+2 Strength / +2 Quick Action) Ring of Eye’s Purity (+3 Battle Magic / +3% Energy Preservation) Runed Jade Necklace (+1 Spellcraft) Clawbug Carapace (+1 Quick Action) Gloves of Savagery (with Damage Attacker enhancement) (+2 Strength / +2 Melee / +4 Quick Action) Lodestone Greaves (-1 Dexterity / +4 Levels Damage In Combat) Nimble Sandals (+2 Dexterity) Alternate Gear: Infiltrator’s Cloak (+1 Leadership / +1 Mechanics / +1 Stealth) Infiltrator’s Tunic (+1 Leadership / +1 Mechanics / +1 Stealth) Tinker Gloves (+2 Mechanics) Tinker Bauble (+1 Mechanics) Volcanic Fetish (+1 Battle Magic) Mindwarp Seal (+2 Mental Magic) Talisman of Might (+4 Strength) BONUSES FROM CHARMS: Lucky Dice (+1 Luck) Physician's Charm (+1 Healing Craft) Skein of Wisdom (+1 Intelligence) Gruesome Charm (-1 Endurance/+2 Dexterity/+2 Intelligence) Mental Focus Charm (+1 Spellcraft) To optimize carrying capacity, we jettisoned the charms which add paltry resistances. They make so little difference, really. Anyone have any suggestions how (and why) you'd continue building her over the remaining two chapters? -S- -------------------- A4 Items • A4 Singleton • G4 Items • G4 Forging • G4 Infiltrator • NR Items • The Lonely Celt Posts: 2009 | Registered: Monday, September 12 2005 07:00 |